Possible Oil Pump Failure

[concours_to_go]

Hi,
I have a 2001 Kawasaki Concours that is new to me. The last time I ran the engine, it was running fine, smooth and steady, but was making louder than usual valve tapping noise. I looked at the oil level window on the case and could see it was full of oil. I stopped the engine. I opened the valve cover and found that valve train area had some oil, but not as much as it should. The cams show some abrasion. I drained the oil and found it to be full. So, I am assuming an oil pump failure or clogged passages. I plan to replace the oil pump. I'm thinking there may possibly be some kind of obstruction, such as a piece of RTV, or paper towel???
My question is. Can I thoroughly clean out all the oil passages without taking the entire engine apart?
Maybe use compressed air from the top and bottom of the engine..?
Any advice and thoughts appreciated.

TIA,
Jim

[Summit670]

So the cams show wear beyond the normal pitting?

How much oil is supposed to be visible in the cam area upon inspection?

"I looked at the oil level window on the case and could see it was full of oil. I stopped the engine."   Was the oil level checked while the engine was running?

 "I drained the oil and found it to be full."  How much oil drained out and did that include the 2 drain plugs and the filter?

[concours_to_go]

So the cams show wear beyond the normal pitting?

How much oil is supposed to be visible in the cam area upon inspection?

"I looked at the oil level window on the case and could see it was full of oil. I stopped the engine."   Was the oil level checked while the engine was running?

 "I drained the oil and found it to be full."  How much oil drained out and did that include the 2 drain plugs and the filter?

Yes, drained from both plugs, but have not removed the filter yet.
Cams were almost dry, they had just a light film. I have always found them to be wet with oil.

[Jim __]

A thin coat of oil is all I would expect to find a on the cam shaft.  Especially, if it was hot when you turn the bike off.  These cams will pick on the newer models.  A little pitting is OK.  Can you take pictures?

[RFH87_Connie]

Did you check the valve adjustment and verify the cam chain tensioner is working?  CCT on the later models apparently make a little extra noise just before they snap to the next tooth.

[concours_to_go]

The bike was cold, and has been sitting for a couple months.
The valve train is dry, and shows minute damage on the cams, not the issue.
Cam chain noise is not the issue.
I am looking for an experienced point of view on how to go about clearing the oil passages, by someone that has done this, or is familiar with the oil passage routes in this engine design.

Thanks in advance,
Jim

[MAN OF BLUES]

before doing that, id check the actual oilpump output pressure, it should be 38-47lbs iirc.
there is a plug down by the shifter on the side of the case, where you need to install an adapter you may need to cobble up, to fit an oil pressure gauge, but before ripping everything apart, id do that diagnostic first....

steve may need to chime in here about this, I'm sure he's made a gauge thingamabobber...

[concours_to_go]

before doing that, id check the actual oilpump output pressure, it should be 38-47lbs iirc.
there is a plug down by the shifter on the side of the case, where you need to install an adapter you may need to cobble up, to fit an oil pressure gauge, but before ripping everything apart, id do that diagnostic first....

steve may need to chime in here about this, I'm sure he's made a gauge thingamabobber...

Thank you for your quick response. I don't have my manual at hand, but I will check it later today for the oil pump pressure testing procedure.

[T Cro ®]

I no longer have a good picture... But this gives you an idea of where the fitting in question is located; it is directly under the pulser cover. Big K sells an adapter 57001-1188 but it still requires a bit of adapting as it is designed to fit their oil pressure test gauge. The oil pressure is read at 4K @ 38 to 47 with the oil hot; at hot idle don't expect to see much more than a few pounds on the gauge. Also IIRC all oil that the top end receives comes via the T shaped steel line attached to the head...

[George R. Young]

Does the oil pressure warning light go out when the engine runs?

[tweeter55]

Does the oil pressure warning light go out when the engine runs?

It had better. Mine occasionally blinks if I brake hard with the engine at idle.

[concours_to_go]

Hi,
Thanks for your replies.
No, the oil light has not come on.
Here is a photo of a parts motor. I see what looks like another sensor, but I do not find it in the parts diagram, it has it's own wire that plugs in with the oil pressure sensor...... Is this the plug?
..........................................
So, I'm looking at the diagram in the manual, and looking at the parts engine trying to figure out the path of the oil flow. It appears the flow of oil comes up the tubes outside the front of the engine. There it goes into the ports in the head, into the rockers shaft, into the rocker arms, and sprayed on the cam lobes.
I have a new question, How does the oil that sprays from the rocker arms to the cam lobes return to the oil sump?

[Two Skies]

It had better. Mine occasionally blinks if I brake hard with the engine at idle.

I was riding my Connie in a really strong crosswind once.  I had to lean so much to one side into the wind that the oil sump sucked air a couple of times.  Seeing the oil light flicker was kind of unnerving, so I adjusted my stance a bit so the bike could be a little more upright/catch some oil (kind of like how guys shift to one side of the bike when going into a high speed turn, but I was doing a similar thing to 'lean' into the wind to keep the sump from sucking air).

I was happy once I crossed that valley and entered the next mountain pass (crosswinds died down).  Interesting ride that day...

I'm older now, so I'm not so big about riding in all weather conditions...  damn whippersnappers and their 'no fear' attitudes anyways!
 

[Rick Hall]

I am looking for an experienced point of view on how to go about clearing the oil passages, by someone that has done this, or is familiar with the oil passage routes in this engine design.

Most all of the internal oil passages can't be 'blown out' without removing a part first. And by part, I mean the cam shaft, or the crankshaft, or a con-rod, etc.

As I recall, the head (all the valve train parts) is lubricated from an external wishbone oil feeder pipe that is located under the header pipes. Main line front/center at the bottom. The "T" fitting (welded/brazed) is near the top, and a line splits off to each side of the head.

If you want to check for oil flow to the head, I might suggest loosening the lower banjo bolt slightly and cranking the engine. If you get oil, and *still* think the lines/passages downstream may be plugged, you'll need to remove the cams and rocker shafts.

Not terribly hard, but does take time. Loosen all the cam adjust locknuts and screws, mark the cam chain, the cam gears, crank gear, a tooth on each cam/crank gear so you can get everything back in the same position. Remove the cam chain tensioner, remove the cam gears, remove the cam caps, lift the cam out.

For a warm fuzzy: Remove the two 8mm? 6mm? hex plugs on the right side that are axially inline with the rocker shafts, pull the rocker shafts out, and gather up the rockers and the springs that may (or may not) still be attached to the rockers. I think it best the rockers be re-installed in the same location, so you might want to mark them before removing.


Reverse to reassemble, taking note that the cam shaft caps *have* to go back in the same location, and direction. You have been warned.

Rick

[concours_to_go]

Most all of the internal oil passages can't be 'blown out' without removing a part first. And by part, I mean the cam shaft, or the crankshaft, or a con-rod, etc.

As I recall, the head (all the valve train parts) is lubricated from an external wishbone oil feeder pipe that is located under the header pipes. Main line front/center at the bottom. The "T" fitting (welded/brazed) is near the top, and a line splits off to each side of the head.

If you want to check for oil flow to the head, I might suggest loosening the lower banjo bolt slightly and cranking the engine. If you get oil, and *still* think the lines/passages downstream may be plugged, you'll need to remove the cams and rocker shafts.

Not terribly hard, but does take time. Loosen all the cam adjust locknuts and screws, mark the cam chain, the cam gears, crank gear, a tooth on each cam/crank gear so you can get everything back in the same position. Remove the cam chain tensioner, remove the cam gears, remove the cam caps, lift the cam out.

For a warm fuzzy: Remove the two 8mm? 6mm? hex plugs on the right side that are axially inline with the rocker shafts, pull the rocker shafts out, and gather up the rockers and the springs that may (or may not) still be attached to the rockers. I think it best the rockers be re-installed in the same location, so you might want to mark them before removing.


Reverse to reassemble, taking note that the cam shaft caps *have* to go back in the same location, and direction. You have been warned.

Rick

Hi Rick,
Thanks for the quick reply. Yes, I will take it apart and blow out all the top end passages. I have worked on the top end before, so I am comfortable doing it.
So, Is it possible you can answer my question? Is the other sensor or "plug" I show in the photo, the port for the oil pressure tester?
Also, after thinking about it, my guess is that all the oil that builds up in the top end is returned to the sump by way of running over the edge at the cam chain. I don't see any other way for it's return. Do you have a better answer?
Thanks,
Jim

[T Cro ®]

Here is a photo of a parts motor. I see what looks like another sensor, but I do not find it in the parts diagram, it has it's own wire that plugs in with the oil pressure sensor...... Is this the plug?

The small devise should have a light green wire and is the neutral switch and the larger devise with the black wire is the oil pressure switch they come off of a small 2 wire plug on the harness...

[T Cro ®]

my guess is that all the oil that builds up in the top end is returned to the sump by way of running over the edge at the cam chain. I don't see any other way for it's return. Do you have a better answer?

Nope... That is the return path...

The oil pump itself is almost never the cause of failure but its design does cause a lot of head scratching.... The pump is is of two chambered gear design that picks up oil collecting under the balancer/crankshaft chamber and runs it through the oil cooler and returns it to the transmission sump; this is why the oil level rises in the sight glass with the engine running. The second oil pump picks up the now cooled oil from the tranny sump and runs it through the filter and then to various locations within the engine.

[Rick Hall]

So, Is it possible you can answer my question? Is the other sensor or "plug" I show in the photo, the port for the oil pressure tester?

No, but suppose you could use it for that. PITA though. The test port is directly below the pulsing cover, if my memory hasn't failed me yet. It's black, and kind of reminds me of a small rear drive fill cover/cap. Aluminum. May be an o-ring under it.... just like the rear drive fill cover.

Also, after thinking about it, my guess is that all the oil that builds up in the top end is returned to the sump by way of running over the edge at the cam chain. I don't see any other way for it's return. Do you have a better answer?

Nope. Drains down the cam chain opening

Rick

[MAN OF BLUES]

Hi,
Thanks for your replies.
No, the oil light has not come on.
Here is a photo of a parts motor. I see what looks like another sensor, but I do not find it in the parts diagram, it has it's own wire that plugs in with the oil pressure sensor...... Is this the plug?
..........................................

no
the sensor you were pointing to with the screwdriver is the neutral indicator switch, the other wired connection down and further back is an oilnpressure switch, but is not where you attach the gage.

it is where Rick and TCro both said, just below the timing cover, the photo TCro posted with the blue hose is a bit decieving, as its rotated 90* cw, and the actual port it connects to is chopped off in the picture, it is where the left hand end of that hose is in the photo.

I can't recommend blowing out any of the upper oil passages using high pressure air, you might induce a blockage up top in a rocker shaft, or cam journal, and blowing back from the top down will purge all the lube from all the lines, which may again cause an issue down at the pump pickup screen.
it would also force air back thru the oil filter.

[concours_to_go]

Hi,
Thanks for your replies.
I realize now that I started asking questions before I thoroughly looked at the whole problem and gave it some thought. I misread where to look for the plug. So, I found the plug head. I read the procedure for testing the pump, I'll do the test first. I was planning on removing the "Y" tube, and the top end tubes and taking the rocker shafts apart before blowing air thru them, but now I'm thinking it wouldn't hurt, but probably is not where the problem lies. I'll make an update with what I find.
Thanks for the help,

Jim