Author Topic: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up  (Read 21493 times)

Offline vortex2

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Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« on: August 27, 2011, 04:12:49 PM »
Putting my '10 back together following valve check, I notice the lower hole on the
left side engine bracket doesn't line up properly with the threaded hole in the engine
casting. The hole in the bracket is lower than the hole in the case. And no matter how
I  try to tweak it, there is no budging it. The right side fits perfectly. When I removed it,
it seemed that the threads were messed up so I ran a thread restorer through it and
you can thread the bolt in(without the bracket in place), but once the bracket is in place
I feel like it is going to cross thread again since it starts off at a slight angle.

It seems like it must have been built this way.

Any thoughts?

I am talking about the triangular shaped front engine brackets that have two holes at the
top to attach to the frame and one lower hole where the bolt goes through to the engine.

Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2011, 04:29:19 PM »
Have you tried putting a jack under the engine and lifting it slightly to make it line up?

Offline lt1

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2011, 05:24:18 PM »
If you haven't already done it, loosen, but do not remove all the other engine mounting bolts.  That should give you enough movement to insert the last bolt correctly.  Then you can gradually tighten all the bolts.
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Offline vortex2

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #3 on: August 27, 2011, 07:57:02 PM »
Tried both of those things, the engine sits high relative to the bracket hole.
Loosening the bracket at the top doesn't help as there is minimal play involved.
Perhaps I will bore out the bracket hole a little, and fill in the area of the bracket
that is left exposed.

I just wonder how this could have happened from the factory.

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2011, 08:01:40 PM »
I don't think you have to remove both front engine mounts to do a valve lash check / adjust, just the right hand side. If you removed both, it is possible the engine shifted by pivoting down from the rear engine mount. I would suggest checking the manual on engine installation and roughly follow the procedure to realign the engine; it is probably something like leaving the rear mount loose while <gently> jacking the engine into position so that both front mounts can be installed. Again, I have not done this on a C-14 but that is the usual procedure (and pretty much common sense). The engine removal / installation procedure will be very different than just installing the front motor mounts of course but I am suggesting following the general procedural method; your engine of course still has the exhaust installed so you will probably have to <gently, carefully> jack the engine against the oil pan, using a piece of wood to spread out the force of the jack.

You will also probably have to loosen the rear motor mount to allow the engine to pivot around that. Otherwise you will just end up jacking the bike up off the center stand.

Brian



Putting my '10 back together following valve check, I notice the lower hole on the
left side engine bracket doesn't line up properly with the threaded hole in the engine
casting. The hole in the bracket is lower than the hole in the case. And no matter how
I  try to tweak it, there is no budging it. The right side fits perfectly. When I removed it,
it seemed that the threads were messed up so I ran a thread restorer through it and
you can thread the bolt in(without the bracket in place), but once the bracket is in place
I feel like it is going to cross thread again since it starts off at a slight angle.

It seems like it must have been built this way.

Any thoughts?

I am talking about the triangular shaped front engine brackets that have two holes at the
top to attach to the frame and one lower hole where the bolt goes through to the engine.
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Offline Mad River Marc

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #5 on: August 28, 2011, 11:48:15 AM »
You don't need to remove both top engine mounts to do valves, only the right hand side one, if you removed both the motor probably pivoted downwards,

One thing to note,  if you did that, there is a specific sequence for torquing the engine mounts down in the manual,   once you get things lined up again you will need to follow that sequence to re-torque all the mount bolts (including the rear)

Offline vortex2

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #6 on: August 29, 2011, 07:18:27 AM »
The problem is that the engine is HIGHER, not lower, than the hole in the bracket. Not sure how the engine moved up. :-\

Offline Dade22

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #7 on: August 29, 2011, 08:10:41 AM »
Pix please...then we can see what your dealing with.


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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2011, 01:38:27 PM »
It is like there is an echo in here..... echo in here..... echo in here....

 ;)

Brian


You don't need to remove both top engine mounts to do valves, only the right hand side one, if you removed both the motor probably pivoted downwards,

One thing to note,  if you did that, there is a specific sequence for torquing the engine mounts down in the manual,   once you get things lined up again you will need to follow that sequence to re-torque all the mount bolts (including the rear)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #9 on: August 29, 2011, 01:40:06 PM »
Unless the engine twisted in the rear mounts....? But like the other poster said, it is probably time for photos. I think we have guessed gone as far as we can on a forum; it is sort of like 'guess that smell' over the phone.

Brian


The problem is that the engine is HIGHER, not lower, than the hole in the bracket. Not sure how the engine moved up. :-\
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline vortex2

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2011, 04:20:24 PM »
OK Here is about the best shot I could get. If you see on the right side of the bracket there is
a machined area where the bracket is supposed to be, but it is slightly lower and to the left.

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #11 on: August 29, 2011, 05:06:42 PM »
I'll take a stab at a solution, try pulling the front tire to the rear, seems maybe that is what shifted.  %100 guess, but it seems logical to me.

Offline vortex2

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #12 on: August 29, 2011, 06:29:59 PM »
The holes line up more or less front to back, just not up and down. The engine is higher than the bracket.

Offline C1xRider

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #13 on: August 29, 2011, 09:31:53 PM »
OK, since were taking WAGs here, is it possible to have the left and right side brackets swapped with each other (reversed)?  Since you took both sides off, maybe they got mixed up?

Another question, any chance your frame was bent from hitting something?  I read one report about a guy that hit a deer with his 2011 C14, and it wrinkled the front of the frame.

Otherwise, it does look like the motor has shifted, but given the way it mounts in the frame, that seems very hard to do.
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Offline vortex2

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #14 on: August 30, 2011, 02:43:27 AM »
No, the brackets are not reversible, and they are marked L and R.
No crash damage either.
It is still a mystery to me how this could happen.

Offline lather

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #15 on: August 30, 2011, 05:38:07 PM »
For what it's worth, I removed BOTH  left and right  Y shaped brackets while doing both my valve adjustments. Some unknown time after the first adjustment, both  lower bolts FELL OUT and were lost! I went 30,000 plus miles between first and second adjustment, when I discovered the missing bolts. I have to assume I did not properly torque the bolts or failed to apply appropriate thread locker, causing the loss. The good news is that ridind the bike  without these bolts caused no permanent problems or even any noticeable handling issues.  The bad news is that does not really help the OP.

I agree with Brain that you probably need to follow the full engine installation bolt tightening sequence prescribed in the manual, including starting with loose rear mounting bolts.
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Offline stevewfl

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #16 on: August 30, 2011, 08:32:37 PM »
Use the right tool to make it line up

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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #17 on: August 30, 2011, 08:36:52 PM »
Steve is right- never force anything, just use a bigger hammer.

But really, that situation you have there is puzzling. Maybe it is as you mentioned and it was misaligned and misassembled at the factory and it really wasn't problem until disassembled?

Brian



Use the right tool to make it line up


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Offline Freddy

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #18 on: August 30, 2011, 10:22:38 PM »
Steve is right- never force anything, just use a bigger hammer.


Laughed til I cried.  Never thought of that b4.   :offtopic:
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Offline vortex2

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Re: Front engine mount bracket doesn't line up
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2011, 06:24:48 AM »
The unusual thing about this whole problem is that there is no 'play' in the mounting system that I can discern. As another poster pointed out, he was missing both front bolts and had no apparent problems. From what I can see, the frame and engine are manufactured to fit together with fairly close tolerances, and when something goes wrong, there is no easy solution.
I lifted the whole bike using just one front engine mount and the engine didn't move a mm.
I wish we had a Kawasaki tech to refer to.