Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: speedracersworld on July 26, 2019, 09:13:05 AM

Title: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on July 26, 2019, 09:13:05 AM
Help! My 08 C-14 is Surging really awful around 4-5K rpm & up. It was doing it at 9k then started doing it at 7K & now around 4K. It ran really Amazing one time/ one day after a fill-up with Costco Gas; I filled up on my way to work & after work, it ran the best she's EVER ran; EVER! It was a cooler evening but the symptoms came back the following days. I drained the tank, removed the fuel pump, cleaned the pump & screen of greenish Algae looking buildup. It improved slightly but was still surging so I installed a new pump, screen with fresh gas & it's still acting up. Next is to inspect the injector screens but I'm suspecting the secondary throttle actuator. I believe it's sticking or worn. I'll clean & lube the secondary throttle shaft & see if that helps because when I back off the throttle, she lunges forward.

Any additional suggestions or insight would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: PH14 on July 26, 2019, 09:56:14 AM
Possibly electric. Check your connections and clean the ground where it attaches to the frame. It could also be a vacuum leak. Good luck.
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: maxtog on July 26, 2019, 03:06:16 PM
Could you better describe the symptoms beyond "surging" for us?  To me, that means the engine RPM starts to increase noticeably/suddenly, under constant load and throttle, even though you are not applying more "gas" (turning the throttle).

BTW- You need to check your signature, you say 2008 "Atomic Silver" (which is real silver), that was available only for 2011.  I think you mean "Neutron Silver" (light stone-bluish silver).

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20250.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20250.0)
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: speedracersworld on July 26, 2019, 03:28:15 PM
Could you better describe the symptoms beyond "surging" for us?  To me, that means the engine RPM starts to increase noticeably/suddenly, under constant load and throttle, even though you are not applying more "gas" (turning the throttle).

BTW- You need to check your signature, you say 2008 "Atomic Silver" (which is real silver), that was available only for 2011.  I think you mean "Neutron Silver" (light stone-bluish silver).

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20250.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20250.0)


Thanks maxtog; on both the symptoms clarification and color. Atoms have Neutrons! ;D Atoms are what I had on my mind when I edited my profile.

So: when I start accelerating, it gets up to 4-4.5K rpms and falls on its face but if I back off the throttle, it will slowly pickup speed as long as I keep modulating the throttle according to feel and I back off if she feels like bogging. I cannot reach redline or anywhere close. The highest I can get to is 9K rpms & it takes forever!! Seems the hotter it gets, the worse its performance. It's easy to remove the tank & clean the secondary throttle shaft but a lot harder to remove the throttle bodies. I even bought a ZX14 TB Assy without the Secondaries to try that. BTW, No Codes or Warning/ Fault Lights are present.
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: B.D.F. on July 26, 2019, 03:55:12 PM
Sounds like a clogged fuel strainer causing fuel starvation.

The screen is located in the fuel pump ass'y, which is inside the fuel tank. Not too awful to do an R&R but you will have to empty the tank and pull some fairings off before you can remove the tank and invert it. The pump is inside the tank and is installed and removed from the bottom.

Lots of info. on the 'Net about this issue along with photos.

Best of luck.

Brian

Help! My 08 C-14 is Surging really awful around 4-5K rpm & up. It was doing it at 9k then started doing it at 7K & now around 4K. It ran really Amazing one time/ one day after a fill-up with Costco Gas; I filled up on my way to work & after work, it ran the best she's EVER ran; EVER! It was a cooler evening but the symptoms came back the following days. I drained the tank, removed the fuel pump, cleaned the pump & screen of greenish Algae looking buildup. It improved slightly but was still surging so I installed a new pump, screen with fresh gas & it's still acting up. Next is to inspect the injector screens but I'm suspecting the secondary throttle actuator. I believe it's sticking or worn. I'll clean & lube the secondary throttle shaft & see if that helps because when I back off the throttle, she lunges forward.

Any additional suggestions or insight would be much appreciated.
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: maxtog on July 26, 2019, 04:35:58 PM
Sounds like a clogged fuel strainer causing fuel starvation.

My thought exactly based on that description he just made.

Quote
The screen is located in the fuel pump ass'y, which is inside the fuel tank. Not too awful to do an R&R but you will have to empty the tank and pull some fairings off before you can remove the tank and invert it. The pump is inside the tank and is installed and removed from the bottom.

But he says he replaced the pump and screen (which I assume means the filter was checked too).  I suppose it could STILL have a clog.  Maybe something in the lines?  Hmm.  His thoughts on the secondary throttles (butterflies) do kinda fit the symptoms, but I thought that would throw an error- doesn't the bike have a sensor to tell it how open they are?
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: Poseidon on July 26, 2019, 05:18:36 PM
Besides the fuel filter, fuel injectors, and fuel lines, also check the vent for your fuel tank. Have you ran any fuel system cleaner thru it? I don’t believe 2008’s had them, but I’ll ask anyway, just in case. Does your bike have an evap canister? It would be located opposite (under right handle bar) of the small storage compartment under the left handle bar

Also, have you checked for a vacuum leak?
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: PH14 on July 26, 2019, 05:21:11 PM
Thanks for clarifying the symptoms. That isn't really surging. I agree with fuel starvation. It sounds like what happens on a carbureted engine when the gas tank vent gets plugged.
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: maxtog on July 26, 2019, 05:29:55 PM
Besides the fuel filter, fuel injectors, and fuel lines, also check the vent for your fuel tank.

Good one.  Although there has been speculation that the fuel pump could actually CRUSH the tank if the vent is plugged, this is a super easy test.... make sure the tank is less than full, ride it with the fuel cover popped open slightly...  If it is intermittent, ride and wait for it to start acting up, then pop the cover and continue riding (without turning off the engine) and see if behavior returns to normal.
Title: Re: Severe Big & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: B.D.F. on July 27, 2019, 06:16:29 AM
Yes, the secondary throttle has a position sensor and yes, it will generate an error if it cannot reach the position the ECU places it.

It is unlikely that a plugged vent would cause such severe fuel starvation because as already mentioned, the fuel pump would just crush the tank and keep going. But as you mentioned, a super-easy test is to ride the bike around with the fuel cap cracked and see if the problem disappears.

As far as replacing the fuel pump and screen, what was it replace with? Something uses I suspect. And if that pump were not taken apart, it is entirely probable that a clogged screen was exchanged for a different but still clogged screen. Not likely perhaps but possible.

It could be clogged fuel injectors but man would they have to be uber- clogged to actually stop the engine from producing even 1/4 of its potential power. Fuel injectors generally fail in two ways, neither of which will actually prevent the engine from running <reasonably> close to normal, at least at first glance. The two failure modes are 1) leaking injectors which are not much of a problem at speed and under load (more of an idle / starting problem) and 2) a dirty injector nozzle(s) that do not spray fuel but instead squirt a stream of fuel into the intake. Again, the engine will run, and fairly close to normal but low end smoothness, fuel economy, and overall running quality, especially at low throttle openings, suffers.

If the fuel pump, screen and pressure regulator have been changed, I would next give the pump assembly a volume and pressure test. Both are easy although the pressure test requires a relatively cheap gauge.

Brian

My thought exactly based on that description he just made.

But he says he replaced the pump and screen (which I assume means the filter was checked too).  I suppose it could STILL have a clog.  Maybe something in the lines?  Hmm.  His thoughts on the secondary throttles (butterflies) do kinda fit the symptoms, but I thought that would throw an error- doesn't the bike have a sensor to tell it how open they are?
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: speedracersworld on July 27, 2019, 08:13:46 AM
Thank you all for your input. The fuel pressure regulator is a suspect! I'll try all the suggestions. I have replaced the pump assembly with a higher volume one with new screen/ sock filter. There was Green Algae like deposit covering the sock. I'll do a pressure check. I'm thinking that the injector screens may have the same Algae/ bacteria clogging it. I added some Bellicide to my tank & Techron additive. I'll check the MAP Sensor and inlet/ intake. I replaced the Air Filter with a foam element so airflow isn't an issue.

If I feather the throttle, I can get the bike up to 90 plus but it takes a bit of time. Like a Honda Civic Hybrid. It's gotta be a Fuel Flow issue, I think.

Because it ran so well that one cool evening,  I'm wondering if it could be a heat induced electrical issue. I did install some heat blockers in the lower section of the fairings but I doubt that would cause the problem.

The vent isn't a problem here as there usually pressure built up in the tank from the Texas heat. I've never had a problem opening the gascao. Usually I can hear air seeping from the gas cap key flap. Will keep you all updated. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: B.D.F. on July 27, 2019, 09:25:56 AM
Wow, I was not even aware that there is anything other than an OEM fuel pump ass'y that will fit in a C-14 but if you did replace the entire ass'y with something [non OEM] I am especially suspect of its output.

It is unlikely to be any type of electrical issue IMO because the ignition system is all independent (each of the four cylinders), and generally electrical issues are more ON and OFF than limiting in power / RPM. Hey, it is possible but that is not where I would start looking- again, the fuel pump assembly including the fuel pressure regulator (located inside at the top of the ass'y). Test output with a pressure gauge (usually 39 PSI but check the manual for the actual number), then a volume test- see how long it takes to pump some known volume, such as a quart.

I had this same problem on an Expedition once: it would start right up and idle but adding any throttle was a struggle. A quick volume check showed the pump's output was far short of the normal range and it was not subtle. The bad news is that it was a LOT easier to test than it is on a C-14 as there is a test valve in the fuel line under the hood, and the pump was easy to power-up through the fusebox, also under the hood.

Brian

Thank you all for your input. The fuel pressure regulator is a suspect! I'll try all the suggestions. I have replaced the pump assembly with a higher volume one with new screen/ sock filter. There was Green Algae like deposit covering the sock. I'll do a pressure check. I'm thinking that the injector screens may have the same Algae/ bacteria clogging it. I added some Bellicide to my tank & Techron additive. I'll check the MAP Sensor and inlet/ intake. I replaced the Air Filter with a foam element so airflow isn't an issue.

If I feather the throttle, I can get the bike up to 90 plus but it takes a bit of time. Like a Honda Civic Hybrid. It's gotta be a Fuel Flow issue, I think.

Because it ran so well that one cool evening,  I'm wondering if it could be a heat induced electrical issue. I did install some heat blockers in the lower section of the fairings but I doubt that would cause the problem.

The vent isn't a problem here as there usually pressure built up in the tank from the Texas heat. I've never had a problem opening the gascao. Usually I can hear air seeping from the gas cap key flap. Will keep you all updated. Thanks again.
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: speedracersworld on July 27, 2019, 11:18:46 AM
Thanks Brian. I'm starting to suspect the Fuel Pressure Regulator inside the pump assembly since that's the one thing I didn't replace while I had it all apart. Seems all the 600cc & up Fuel Injected Kawasaki's take the same internal pump motor & pressure regulator so the volume & pressure must be the same. I have many 636 pump assemblies & just ordered a known good ZX14 Fuel Pump (Same part number 49040-0024) to rule out the pump/ pressure regulator. It's much easier than removing the TBs. The bike starts, idles and runs great until 4K so not getting as much as the demanded flow/ volume past that rpm. Will know for sure in a few days. :)
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: speedracersworld on July 27, 2019, 11:27:33 AM
This is the pump I installed. It was Identical in size, shape & fit as the Kawasaki OEM Part except Orange in color. Has all the correct O-rings also. Easy job!

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F292149435327 (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F292149435327)
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: ginzburg on July 27, 2019, 12:12:30 PM
I read about sort of similar symptoms with a bike cutting out at high RPMs. They said it was the throttle position sensor in that case. Maybe this is why you can feather the throttle and still get something out of it. The manual says that light loads are controlled by a vacuum sensor, then it switches to the throttle position sensor. Maybe it only throws a code if the sensor is completely open or shorted and that is why you don't get a code. I don't know how this one is made, but I would think heat could affect a potentiometer that is going out and that could be your heat related electrical problem.
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on July 27, 2019, 03:35:29 PM
Wow, I was not even aware that there is anything other than an OEM fuel pump ass'y that will fit in a C-14 but if you did replace the entire ass'y with something [non OEM] I am especially suspect of its output.

It is unlikely to be any type of electrical issue IMO because the ignition system is all independent (each of the four cylinders), and generally electrical issues are more ON and OFF than limiting in power / RPM. Hey, it is possible but that is not where I would start looking- again, the fuel pump assembly including the fuel pressure regulator (located inside at the top of the ass'y). Test output with a pressure gauge (usually 39 PSI but check the manual for the actual number), then a volume test- see how long it takes to pump some known volume, such as a quart.

I had this same problem on an Expedition once: it would start right up and idle but adding any throttle was a struggle. A quick volume check showed the pump's output was far short of the normal range and it was not subtle. The bad news is that it was a LOT easier to test than it is on a C-14 as there is a test valve in the fuel line under the hood, and the pump was easy to power-up through the fusebox, also under the hood.

Brian

HERE is a link to another aftermarket replacement pump, a couple guys on the other forum have actually purchased, and ran them, and had nothing bad to say about them at all..that same place sells the filter socks for 3 for $14

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html (https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html)

Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: B.D.F. on July 27, 2019, 04:14:22 PM
OK, that makes sense as it is a component kit rather than a fuel pump ass'y. There are very few O.E.M. pumps on the market, I think it is three to be exact, so just the fuel pump is not hard to get. But a complete ass'y, with the low fuel warning, the metal mount and tank seal, the piping and wiring harnesses- I would be amazed if anyone other than the original manufacturer actually made one for a C-14. In fact, most motorcycles with very few exceptions.

According to the list of parts (printed) as well as the colored component diagram, that kit does not come with a pressure regulator. If that is the case, and the O.P. has a bad regulator, his symptoms and experience would make perfect sense because he would not have actually replaced the defective part.

As an aside, I was working at a company that was machining an aspect of an automotive air conditioning compressor and I asked 'for which brand'. The reply was 'all of them'. Not like the olden days, today parts manufacturers often make a component or assembly for 'cars' and it is the truly single source for the entire world. So the 'Chevy vs. Ford' argument is getting watered down all the time 'cause whichever one you choose, they share a LOT of parts / assemblies.

Brian

HERE is a link to another aftermarket replacement pump, a couple guys on the other forum have actually purchased, and ran them, and had nothing bad to say about them at all..that same place sells the filter socks for 3 for $14

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html (https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html)
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on July 27, 2019, 06:23:44 PM
OK, that makes sense as it is a component kit rather than a fuel pump ass'y. There are very few O.E.M. pumps on the market, I think it is three to be exact, so just the fuel pump is not hard to get. But a complete ass'y, with the low fuel warning, the metal mount and tank seal, the piping and wiring harnesses- I would be amazed if anyone other than the original manufacturer actually made one for a C-14. In fact, most motorcycles with very few exceptions.

According to the list of parts (printed) as well as the colored component diagram, that kit does not come with a pressure regulator. If that is the case, and the O.P. has a bad regulator, his symptoms and experience would make perfect sense because he would not have actually replaced the defective part.

As an aside, I was working at a company that was machining an aspect of an automotive air conditioning compressor and I asked 'for which brand'. The reply was 'all of them'. Not like the olden days, today parts manufacturers often make a component or assembly for 'cars' and it is the truly single source for the entire world. So the 'Chevy vs. Ford' argument is getting watered down all the time 'cause whichever one you choose, they share a LOT of parts / assemblies.

Brian

I don't see anyone producing the check valve/pressure valve as an aftermarket part, nor can I find it in the Kaw system.. it's a "small' assembled part, that you can pull out during the dis-assembly of the stock pump,it has the 2 o-rings on it...  when doing a filter sock replacement.. I sprayed gumout in mine, and blew it out with compressed air (carefully) during the cleaning and r/r process..

https://www.kawasaki.com/Parts/PartsDiagram/218322/2019/ZG1400EKF (https://www.kawasaki.com/Parts/PartsDiagram/218322/2019/ZG1400EKF)

Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: ginzburg on July 28, 2019, 01:56:16 PM
I was reading about the TPS calibration here. http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18016.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=18016.0)

This thread is pretty long and I don't know what the conclusion was. Can the TPS be recalibrated in this manner? I could see it being inadvertently calibrated in this way. Could it cause similar symptoms if it is completely out of wack? If it does work this way, then maybe it is just worth trying since it is so easy.
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: speedracersworld on July 28, 2019, 03:26:12 PM
I did the TPS Reset/ Recalibration twice but no difference. I'm gonna replace the FPR or the whole  (ZX14) pump assembly when I get a chance in a couple of days & update you all.

Here's the Fuel Pressure Regulator; same for all bikes!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173748331444 (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173748331444)
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on July 28, 2019, 05:57:02 PM
I did the TPS Reset/ Recalibration twice but no difference. I'm gonna replace the FPR or the whole  (ZX14) pump assembly when I get a chance in a couple of days & update you all.

Here's the Fuel Pressure Regulator; same for all bikes!
https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173748331444 (https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F173748331444)

I'm sorry if I again seem to be quite blunt about buying "stuff' off ebay, but if you actually looked, and I'm sure you didn't, you would find as I said, you can't buy that individual KAW OEM part...

the numbers they used on the website you linked, are for a complete pump assembly.. I don't think you are really getting this thing, about "real" vs "available" parts people sell..
I just did a complete fuel pump clean/filter/reinstall about 2 weeks ago.. i assure you you are gambling and tossing money to an E-bay vendor, that is falsly representing what he has in hand... it's your $$$$$.. and your bike, but man, be a bit more dilligent, run numbers, and check sources.

actually, when you go to the "source", and compare the fuel pump assembly, and this supposed regulator, they repeat the exact same numbers.. can you buy things online, from a source with little credibility, when they make such grave errors in the marketing, and part number's you expect?
https://www.fuelpumpfactory.com/collections/all/motorcycles---scooters-2008-kawasaki-concours-14--zg1400--efi-esr4669762 (https://www.fuelpumpfactory.com/collections/all/motorcycles---scooters-2008-kawasaki-concours-14--zg1400--efi-esr4669762)


as for the TPS reset thing... we hashed this all out for a decade.. it's pure hogwash, with regard to the C14.. it will do nothing.. I did it many times, trying to believe it, but in the end, consorting with my long time mechanical cronies, we have found the ECU is what it is, you can't "re-set" anything, like the off-on-off throttle thing was touted to do.. this came directly as a result of BMW's systems, used on the GS series, and does not in any way shape, or form, even make a difference when attempted on a C14.
The ONLY thing, that will change throttle roll on roll off, is a flash. Whomever you choose to perform it, is up to you. I have a Mountain Runner Premium flash, a couple weeks old... my miles per gallon went from approx 40, to 53 even tho I was abusing the bike much harder, than ever before.. to test the flash.. I can't say enough about just HOW MUCH, it changed my '08.
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: maxtog on July 28, 2019, 06:33:56 PM
The ONLY thing, that will change throttle roll on roll off, is a flash.

Actually, a ThrottleTamer will do it, too.  That is what I used for many years before the recent Steve's reflash.  Guhl's flash does nothing for throttle taming, but Steve's does.... now I have TOO MUCH throttle taming :)  I suppose one day I need to remove the ThrottleTamer, but I like that it is metal and so smooth.  Anyway, so now the Tamer is redundant with a good flash.
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: ginzburg on August 01, 2019, 01:50:12 AM
If it turns out not to be the fuel, I saw another possibility on a ZX-14 that was described as a bogging issue and they described it as acting like a fueling issue. In that case it turned out to be the vehicle down sensor shorting out and cutting the fuel intermittantly. It seems pretty unlikely on the Concours that it would have as many problems with it as on the ZX-14 due to the different location and mounting though. It did not have an error code, but I do think it had the flashing temperature sensor.

Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: speedracersworld on August 04, 2019, 09:35:33 PM
OK!! Problem Solved!! I installed the ZX14 Fuel Pump Assembly and she ran like a Bat Outta Hell! The Fuel Pressure regulator was the one piece that I didn't think of changing in the Fuel Pump Assembly. So much for Insignificance. I still have the other "Aftermarket" Pump assembly and got the replacement Fuel Pressure Regulator that I will assemble & install later. It feels good to finally have solved the mystery. Thank You ALL For your Advice & Input!!!

What I figured was the FPR was Bypassing below the Normal Pressure. The bike had enough Fuel Pressure to start, idle and accelerate up to 4K rpms but after that there wasn't enough Fuel Pressure & Flow for the Demand so it was bogging down; like running lean. Now she accelerates strong and fast all the way up to redline in atleast the first 4 gears. Ran out of clear freeway after that ;)
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: connie_rider on August 05, 2019, 07:25:59 AM
Speedracersworld, glad you solved the problem.
Can you post an image of the ZX14 Fuel Pump Assembly you installed and tell us where you purchased it?
I see where you bought an aftermarket pump and a ZX-14 throttle body, but don't see a link to what you installed?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 05, 2019, 08:58:14 AM
The used eBay ZX14 pump is same part number as the Concours 14. They were identical. I wanted to try a known good pump before tackling the TB's. I was running short on time but will post pics & video of the pump overhaul later. Took me about an hour total to drain, remove the tank & pump, reinstall & reassemble.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: connie_rider on August 05, 2019, 02:19:50 PM
Ok, thank you. Assuming you bought something like this?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-12-17-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX14R-ZX14-Fuel-Pump-Rear-Gas-Pickup-Petrol-2015/254307874526?hash=item3b35ee36de:g:ePMAAOSwQnFdN4Dd (https://www.ebay.com/itm/2014-12-17-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX14R-ZX14-Fuel-Pump-Rear-Gas-Pickup-Petrol-2015/254307874526?hash=item3b35ee36de:g:ePMAAOSwQnFdN4Dd)

Haven't been into mine and was hoping to see if the image showed the Fuel Pressure regulator in place.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 05, 2019, 02:40:49 PM
Yes, exactly. You see the metallic Disc looking Thingy (3rd Picture) towards the Top of the Pump Housing at the Split Seam (about the diameter of a Quarter) Is the Fuel Pressure Regulator. If you remove the 2 screws on top sides & pry apart the top section of the plastic Cover, You'll see the Fuel Pressure Regulator. Be Careful because the Rubber O-rings are holding it down pretty good. Mine went flying the first time!! ;D
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: connie_rider on August 05, 2019, 03:27:06 PM
Yes, I see it now. Thanks.
I'm assuming you installed a new strainer?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 05, 2019, 03:38:05 PM
Yes, I see it now. Thanks.
I'm assuming you installed a new strainer?

Ride safe, Ted

No, mine was like New/ clean. I'll have a detailed disassembly & reassembly of the pump  posted hopefully by tomorrow if my schedule permits.

Adam
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 05, 2019, 05:12:00 PM
I'm still not positive the metal thing is all encompassing, I think the actual regulator sits below it, and the metal part is basically a check valve, with a pressure regulating spring..(no part number associated with it in the picture) I dunno, didn't spend enough time when I had it all disassembled to really mess with the plastic part.. (item #3)

Mind you, this is a "generic" picture of a Kaw pump, actually the same pump, but the float level stuff is from the "Mule" ATV model.

(https://www.highflowfuel.com/images/F144224599.jpg)
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 05, 2019, 06:16:08 PM
I'm still not positive the metal thing is all encompassing, I think the actual regulator sits below it, and the metal part is basically a check valve, with a pressure regulating spring..(no part number associated with it in the picture) I dunno, didn't spend enough time when I had it all disassembled to really mess with the plastic part.. (item #3)

Mind you, this is a "generic" picture of a Kaw pump, actually the same pump, but the float level stuff is from the "Mule" ATV model.

(https://www.highflowfuel.com/images/F144224599.jpg)

It's the bottom unit of #9.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 05, 2019, 07:45:12 PM
Man Of Blues; where did you get the diagram? Got a parts list?
Title: Re: Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 06, 2019, 01:01:16 PM
HERE is a link to another aftermarket replacement pump, a couple guys on the other forum have actually purchased, and ran them, and had nothing bad to say about them at all..that same place sells the filter socks for 3 for $14

https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html (https://www.highflowfuel.com/i-23443610-quantum-t35-intank-fuel-pump-with-strainers-for-kawasaki-concours-14-zg1400-2008-2018.html)

It's from the link I posted on page 2.

it does not break the parts down with actual "numbers"...
and unfortunately neither does Kaw on the OEM Microfiche.. so, it's tough to break out individual parts.

I'm pretty sure tho, a I have seen a photo of the OEM "filter rebuild kit", on a Kaw "parts" supplier website,(not the actual Kaw site) that each part comes in it's own bag,and is labeled, and is grouped together and supplied in a larger bag, as "the kit", meaning the o-rings, filter element, replacement screws.  I just replaced my filter, so I'm not going to spend the $70 for a kit to "supply individual numbers", maybe when someone buys one, they can post up what each part in that kit is marked as.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 07, 2019, 12:58:29 PM
It's the bottom unit of #9.

The metal piece of item #9 is the fuel pressure regulator. It also acts as a check valve to prevent fuel from draining out of the line back into the tank. Any pressure above the regulated psi is relieved back into the housing. Item #3 is just a spacer passage from the pump motor to upper cap which is a pressurized chamber.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 08, 2019, 12:02:24 AM
Here are pics of the fuel pump reassembly. Be careful during disassembly because the O-rings don't want to let go of the upper cap & parts my go airborne.. Pry on both sides evenly. I replaced the fuel pump motor, filter & pressure regulator. The stock pump is still good and I'll keep it as back up.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: connie_rider on August 08, 2019, 09:41:20 AM
speedracersworld, congrats on the successful repair.
I enjoyed talking with you.

Was surprising that your fuel pump regulator failed. Think that is the first one that I've heard of.
But your step by step finally found the solution. I are impressed...

Keep us posted when/if you check out the old pump/etc in the future.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 08, 2019, 02:53:48 PM
speedracersworld, congrats on the successful repair.
I enjoyed talking with you.



Was surprising that your fuel pump regulator failed. Think that is the first one that I've heard of.
But your step by step finally found the solution. I are impressed...

Keep us posted when/if you check out the old pump/etc in the future.

Ride safe, Ted

Good talking to you also. Will keep you all updated on the aftermarket fuel pump assembly swap. Just filled my tank last night and that'll last me a week or I may just drain & swap it this weekend. Wife's car blew a radiator hose so that's the priority then the bike.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: 2talltim on August 13, 2019, 09:46:27 AM
FYI for future reference these kits work as direct replacements for the C14 also. Comes with everything. Had to over night one to a hotel in Utah last year. Great pump and lifetime warranty too. You would be suprised how many different bikes and machines use these same exact pumps acrodd all brands.
 
 https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-4010-49040-0719-49040-0718-49019-0013/dp/B00S0I64ZE/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=HFP-386+brute+force&qid=1565710905&s=automotive&sr=1-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-4010-49040-0719-49040-0718-49019-0013/dp/B00S0I64ZE/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=HFP-386+brute+force&qid=1565710905&s=automotive&sr=1-4)
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 13, 2019, 11:34:04 AM
Great information from everyone!  :finger_fing11:
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 14, 2019, 03:31:21 PM
FYI for future reference these kits work as direct replacements for the C14 also. Comes with everything. Had to over night one to a hotel in Utah last year. Great pump and lifetime warranty too. You would be suprised how many different bikes and machines use these same exact pumps acrodd all brands.
 
 https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-4010-49040-0719-49040-0718-49019-0013/dp/B00S0I64ZE/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=HFP-386+brute+force&qid=1565710905&s=automotive&sr=1-4 (https://www.amazon.com/Replacement-4010-49040-0719-49040-0718-49019-0013/dp/B00S0I64ZE/ref=sr_1_4?keywords=HFP-386+brute+force&qid=1565710905&s=automotive&sr=1-4)

Ya, it seems like the pump motor is the same even off my 06 636. One manufacturer making them for Most Bikes. Great info, suggestions & feedback! Thanks.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 14, 2019, 04:56:02 PM
so, maybe posting this and all vendor info for these, into a "sticky" spot here on C14 parts and availability, where I posted the ones I found, might enlarge the database, and give people many places to get good priced fixemups..
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on August 14, 2019, 05:37:16 PM
so, maybe posting this and all vendor info for these, into a "sticky" spot here on C14 parts and availability, where I posted the ones I found, might enlarge the database, and give people many places to get good priced fixemups..

Great Idea!! Do it please!
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 14, 2019, 06:36:55 PM
I'll leave that up to you.
sorry, I have to sleep now..
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: jimmymac on August 16, 2019, 10:27:32 AM
Way to go, dUDE! 8)
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: Toddc14 on May 09, 2020, 09:12:15 PM
Hi all, I too have had this problem. I fixed it via a rebuild kit, or so I thought. I turn key and hear the hum or the new pump. Hit the start button, she turns over and over.. nada! Turn it off, and on again, hear the hum, hit start and it does not start. Sounds like it is not firing. I did change the air filter while I had her top off.... any ideas? I walked away after put it on the battery tender. I am gonna try it again tomorrow... see if a weak battery was the culprit.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: speedracersworld on May 10, 2020, 04:10:20 AM
Hi all, I too have had this problem. I fixed it via a rebuild kit, or so I thought. I turn key and hear the hum or the new pump. Hit the start button, she turns over and over.. nada! Turn it off, and on again, hear the hum, hit start and it does not start. Sounds like it is not firing. I did change the air filter while I had her top off.... any ideas? I walked away after put it on the battery tender. I am gonna try it again tomorrow... see if a weak battery was the culprit.

Did you reconnect ALL the plugs? Try a little spray of starting fluid to see if it's a fuel or ignition problem. When you rebuilt the fuel pump assembly, did you reinstall all the o-rings as required? Double check the easy stuff first.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: Freddy on May 12, 2020, 01:18:49 AM
 :goodpost:

It's easy for an O ring to get displaced during assembly, which will cause your symptoms.  If you remove the pressure hose from the tank does fuel continue to run out?  If so, there's the problem.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: Toddc14 on May 13, 2020, 10:55:55 AM
Well after a little starter fluid, a new battery (need it any way), we have narrowed it down. Freddy, it does still leak gas after the initial key on, boot up. I am guessing I have oring out of place. Gonna re-rebuild the pump. Just need to find pictures or video on exactly how to do it? I want to say I saw some here. I unfortunately have to work a lot! Thanks to all on the input.
Title: Re: SOLVED!! Severe Bog & Surging on 08 Concours 14 Solved!!
Post by: gPink on May 13, 2020, 02:29:29 PM
Well after a little starter fluid, a new battery (need it any way), we have narrowed it down. Freddy, it does still leak gas after the initial key on, boot up. I am guessing I have oring out of place. Gonna re-rebuild the pump. Just need to find pictures or video on exactly how to do it? I want to say I saw some here. I unfortunately have to work a lot! Thanks to all on the input.

There's this... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7625.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=7625.0)

                     http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17493.msg213541#msg213541 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17493.msg213541#msg213541)