Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: backwards1 on November 19, 2016, 08:50:51 PM
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UPDATE 1/16 - Got my C14 back last Tuesday but due to the weather and work I haven't had a time to take it out for a ride. They said they adjusted the throttle idle. The problem is still there. Time will tell if the oil leak is resolved or not. I made a quick video of me blipping the throttle. What is your best guess or where should I start with getting back in touch with the dealer? It's still under factory warranty till April.
https://youtu.be/AkZq072azPQ
C14 sat for a month in the garage which isn't usually a issue. I start it up and notice after a few minutes at idle that if I slightly twist up the throttle that it revs up to for 4-5k and then slowly comes down within 2-5secs. Wait for it to fully warm up and do slightly more quick blips of the throttle and I get some smoke from the front of the engine/forks area and then it goes away quickly. Notice throttle blips up and down just fine now. Road it twice to work now about 40miles round trip and don't notice this slow return idle while riding but even after it is fully warmed up I still experience a sluggish throttle. Noticed the smoke about 3 times. I did see some oily residue looking drip on the front exhaust header. Couldn't tell if it was oil but likely. The signs of oil on header was only the one time
Background
-About a year ago I had a valve cover gasket replaced as there were leaks out the front left side and smoke at start up idle.
-PC5 & flies removed - Proper map for stock exhaust and flies out. Sound like a good reason to take out the PC5?
I still have warranty till next year. Suggestions? The drip isn't constant and I assume the smoke is when the drip occurs on the exhaust. What could be dripping at random times in the front of the engine area. Ideas on the slow rev down to idle? THanks to any that read and try to help.
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Could be the common problem of the cam sensor gasket leaking (or the cam cover gasket). If you have a warranty, you might want to use it.
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http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=search2 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=search2)
"Search is your friend" [sometimes]
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17296 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17296)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17850 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17850)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16507 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=16507)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13253 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13253)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13261 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=13261)
As far as throttle, most likely: adjust cables, lube cables, replace throttle tube (suggest Throttle Tamer)
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15231 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15231)
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Hi,
I work out of town.
Sometimes for a month or so at a time.
Just sayin, I have never had a "smoke or idle" problem before, so....
I would look for a problem, as suggested!
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I get a smell of burning leaves at times and I think it's related to a leak of some sort but not enough to want me to take apart everything to fix it.
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Sometimes the smell of burning leaves are.......burning leaves.
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Strange you say that, it's mainly in the Fall that I get that smell..
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I get a smell of burning leaves at times and I think it's related to a leak of some sort but not enough to want me to take apart everything to fix it.
You know, I also get a burning smell too when I park home from a ride... has been doing it for several months now. To me, it smells like burning plastic or something but I can never find anything (of course I haven't taken anything apart, but no drips on ground, nothing I can see around in there with a flashlight).
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The 09 I bought in April has started doing it beginning with the first ride in temps below 55 F this month. I am guessing it is the undersized cam sensor o-ring. Tight in warm weather but leaks when cold?
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Strange you say that, it's mainly in the Fall that I get that smell..
I have been getting the same smell lately...to the point where I looked around inside the fairings to see if there might be a stray leaf or two even though I couldn't imagine how they would get in there. Found nothing. Strange.
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The valve cover and / or exhaust cam seal is leaking a very small amount of oil. It is only when the bike sits for a while that enough oil collects to make smoke- when used often, the oil burns off in such small quantities that you will not notice it. Nothing to worry about really and unfortunately, common to this bike. It can of course be fixed by replacing both seals (valve cover and exhaust cam sensor) but something different than just using the stock seals has to be done or the problem will return pretty quickly. There are oversize seals available (do a search on this forum) and you can shim or use a layer of RTV under the valve cover seal. This only applies if you do the work yourself as any dealer will just use stock parts and the problem will return shortly.
The throttle returning to a slow idle when the bike is cold is not really of much concern as long as it runs correctly when it is up to operating temperature. BTW, 'winging' the throttle on a cold engine is kinda' hard on the moving parts; it is best to just let the bike run for a minute or two before riding it and even then a bit gently until it is warmed up. This is nothing to do with the C-14 specifically, all I.C. engines work best and most correctly when warm and often run poorly and / or have quirks when cold.
Brian
C14 sat for a month in the garage which isn't usually a issue. I start it up and notice after a few minutes at idle that if I slightly twist up the throttle that it revs up to for 4-5k and then slowly comes down within 2-5secs. Wait for it to fully warm up and do slightly more quick blips of the throttle and I get some smoke from the front of the engine/forks area and then it goes away quickly. Notice throttle blips up and down just fine now. Road it twice to work now about 40miles round trip and don't notice this slow return idle while riding but even after it is fully warmed up I still experience a sluggish throttle. Noticed the smoke about 3 times. I did see some oily residue looking drip on the front exhaust header. Couldn't tell if it was oil but likely. The signs of oil on header was only the one time
Background
-About a year ago I had a valve cover gasket replaced as there were leaks out the front left side and smoke at start up idle.
-PC5 & flies removed - Proper map for stock exhaust and flies out. Sound like a good reason to take out the PC5?
I still have warranty till next year. Suggestions? The drip isn't constant and I assume the smoke is when the drip occurs on the exhaust. What could be dripping at random times in the front of the engine area. Ideas on the slow rev down to idle? THanks to any that read and try to help.
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Higher Idle and slowly returning to normal is a sign of a Lean Condition. May not have been fuel available for some reason. Injector gummed up etc. May have cleared with some running. I would run some injector cleaner and see if it reoccurs.
Just my 2 cents worth
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The high idle control comes from the secondary throttle valve stepper motor and bumps up the primary throttle for cold start through linkage on the left side of the throttle body. I have had a couple of occasions where guys who had replaced their secondary plates in order to use my ECU flash had similar idle issues. In both cases the linkage being a bit gummy and stuck, and not letting the primary throttle valves drop. In both case spraying some WD40 on the linkage solved the problem. HTH, steve
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Made a video for the issue that wasn't resolved after 2 weeks at the dealer. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkZq072azPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkZq072azPQ)
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The high idle control comes from the secondary throttle valve stepper motor and bumps up the primary throttle for cold start through linkage on the left side of the throttle body. I have had a couple of occasions where guys who had replaced their secondary plates in order to use my ECU flash had similar idle issues. In both cases the linkage being a bit gummy and stuck, and not letting the primary throttle valves drop. In both case spraying some WD40 on the linkage solved the problem. HTH, steve
That sounds like a great tip to try out. Any pointers on finding this area? I bought that repair DVD set that shows plenty of break down of the C14. I should get the manual as well. I will try to search around and figure it out.
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Made a video for the issue that wasn't resolved after 2 weeks at the dealer. - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkZq072azPQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AkZq072azPQ)
In your video, to me it is clearly a mechanical issue... it is binding and just not returning smoothly. It is hard to see, but you CAN see the throttle turning as it slowly returns and the RPM falls. Stare very closely at the throttle on the handlebar while listening. Remember that with zero load on the engine, it only takes a barely visible amount of tube turn to create a LOT of rpm change. The throttle should snap back cleanly and nearly instantly when you let go of it, no matter how much you turn it. That is certainly not the case in your video.
Now where it lies, that is the trick, because there is a lot of stuff involved in all that linkage. It could be sticky cable, worn spring, worn or sticky throttle tube, kinked cable, improper adjustment between the two cables, throttle grip or tube touching the weight or bike side, something near the throttle butterflies, etc, etc. Being [engine] temperature related would shift focus to everything AFTER the handlebars and closer to the engine. I am surprised that a competent dealer would not be able to find the issue.
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Thanks Maxtog for watching the video and your suggestions. Some things that could be contributing to the issue. I have 2" risers installed and I have heated grips installed under the aftermarket grips.I could take the grip off quickly and see if there is any influence or rubbing. I could even remove the risers to see if maybe there is stress being put on the cable. Sad that my bike had to sit there for that long and still not have it resolved. They did fix an oil leak but doesn't appear they put much effort into addressing this concern. I will see what happens with the grip off and then riser.
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First, I agree with maxtog on something binding or sticking. The first part of the video shows the engine speed returning to idle when the throttle grip is turned back after excessive revving. Shows it happening a couple of times.
I think the problem will be solved when the binding or sticking problem is addressed.
Next, in my opinion there is too much slack in the throttle cables. Not critical but leads to rough shifting gears and on-off throttle transitions.
Bob Skinner.
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Thanks Maxtog for watching the video and your suggestions. Some things that could be contributing to the issue. I have 2" risers installed and I have heated grips installed under the aftermarket grips.I could take the grip off quickly and see if there is any influence or rubbing. I could even remove the risers to see if maybe there is stress being put on the cable. Sad that my bike had to sit there for that long and still not have it resolved. They did fix an oil leak but doesn't appear they put much effort into addressing this concern. I will see what happens with the grip off and then riser.
Some dealers will be all prissy about dealing with problems that stem from aftermarket parts. Yes, the risers can, will, and do put extra stress on the throttle cables if they are not routed properly, so that is a good thing to check. Your aftermarket grips are also a likely culprit that needs checking (and yes, that is a pain to remove/check/replace). And since yours is a 2008, it might have just worn out the throttle tubes and it is sticky. I do highly recommend replacement with the Throttle Tamer if you are going to the effort of taking apart the grips anyway. It is worth the price- you will end up with a METAL tube and new slippery liner that is smooth as glass, in addition to a much better throttle response.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15231 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=15231)
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One way to eliminate the entire throttle mechanism at the bar is to remove the cables at that point and pull on the throttle cables and let them snap back and see how it reacts. If it's fine, there's your problem.
Not sure if this bike has a push/pull throttle but it wouldn't be hard to fab up a flat piece of aluminum with holes in either end to hold the end of the cable, then lay it on the handle bar so half is on one side, half the other, then change the angle and see how it goes.