Author Topic: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner  (Read 16760 times)

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #20 on: October 10, 2014, 01:29:53 PM »
I don't know what I would do if my bike didn't rattle when I started it up.  I think I would feel lost.  It's been doing that since day 1 (Aug 2007).

Mine does it on every startup cold or hot and now for almost 30 seconds. I think the ratchet spring is broken.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #21 on: October 10, 2014, 02:23:49 PM »
I believe it seals with an O-ring at the base of the part that actually sticks into the cylinder block (going by memory here so take that with a grain of salt). You should be able to use the one already on the bike.

An APE will close off the oil port fine as the shaft is the same diameter as the original (Easy Boys!).

The APE will weep just a touch of oil around the threads but it won't amount to even a single drop in my experience. Overall, they work very well, require very little maintenance (mine has not been touched in more than 30K miles) and absolutely stop that can of marbles start- up rattle the C-14 has.

Brian

Got my APE CCT yesterday, planned to install tomorrow but I just realized I didn't buy any gaskets and didn't see if the APE included any gasket or O-ring. Am I going to need any gaskets? Also, in some other thread, saw something about the oil passage and the possible need to block it or make sure it isn't blocked. But cannot find that thread. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #22 on: October 10, 2014, 02:41:10 PM »
I believe it seals with an O-ring at the base of the part that actually sticks into the cylinder block (going by memory here so take that with a grain of salt). You should be able to use the one already on the bike.

An APE will close off the oil port fine as the shaft is the same diameter as the original (Easy Boys!).

The APE will weep just a touch of oil around the threads but it won't amount to even a single drop in my experience. Overall, they work very well, require very little maintenance (mine has not been touched in more than 30K miles) and absolutely stop that can of marbles start- up rattle the C-14 has.

Brian

Thanks Brian! Did you remove the crankshaft sensor cover and set #1 cylinder to TDC? All the different vids and threads say to do this but I'm not sure why.

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #23 on: October 10, 2014, 02:54:55 PM »
Here is the instructions from APE. Nothing about TDC and in fact to rotate the engine while adjusting. Would be way simpler if I didn't have to pull the shaft cover and set TDS. Would love to know what you guys did.

INSTRUCTIONS

To set the tensioner adjustment, rotate the engine forward while screwing the tensioner bolt in. When you feel the engine tensioner parts (guide, rollers, etc.) make contact with the moving cam chain, back the tensioner bolt out 1/4 turn and tighten the jam nut. (For the finer pitch thread on the APE Pro Series tensioner it is advised to back the tensioner up 1/2 of a turn.)

DO NOT over-tighten the cam chain, as cam chain giude damage could occur. Be sure jam nut is tight against the tensioner body when complete.


Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #24 on: October 10, 2014, 02:56:59 PM »
Nope. It seemed like hocus- pocus to me to so I did not bother with the position of the engine when setting the tensioner. Besides all that, how in the world could anyone say that TDC is the tight spot (Easy Boys!) for any given cam chain on any given engine?

What I do is to use a socket and extension (only- no ratchet) to tighten the adjuster as much as I can, using the extension like a screwdriver. Then I back the tensioner off 1/2 turn, tighten the locknut and forget about it, just like in the olden' days when manual tensioners were normal. That method has worked for me on many motorcycles and my current C-14 for well over 50K miles.

Just don't turn the engine over while there is no tensioner in place. Otherwise, this is a very simple and straight- forward swap with the automatic CCT and will eliminate that pesky rattle.

Brian

Thanks Brian! Did you remove the crankshaft sensor cover and set #1 cylinder to TDC? All the different vids and threads say to do this but I'm not sure why.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #25 on: October 10, 2014, 03:00:10 PM »
Nope. It seemed like hocus- pocus to me to so I did not bother with the position of the engine when setting the tensioner. Besides all that, how in the world could anyone say that TDC is the tight spot (Easy Boys!) for any given cam chain on any given engine?

What I do is to use a socket and extension (only- no ratchet) to tighten the adjuster as much as I can, using the extension like a screwdriver. Then I back the tensioner off 1/2 turn, tighten the locknut and forget about it, just like in the olden' days when manual tensioners were normal. That method has worked for me on many motorcycles and my current C-14 for well over 50K miles.

Just don't turn the engine over while there is no tensioner in place. Otherwise, this is a very simple and straight- forward swap with the automatic CCT and will eliminate that pesky rattle.

Brian

Excellent! I love it when a plan comes together. And we didn't even have to call a meeting with 35 people on WebEx.  :rotflmao:

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #26 on: October 10, 2014, 03:07:08 PM »
I would have called in on GoToMeeting but hey, we didn't get to discuss any posters either.  ;D

Brian

Excellent! I love it when a plan comes together. And we didn't even have to call a meeting with 35 people on WebEx.  :rotflmao:
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #27 on: October 11, 2014, 07:35:11 PM »
Put the APE CCT in this morning. Once the left center faring was off, about 10 min total time to remove the OEM, install the APE and adjust. Successful conversion from John Deere to Kawasaki. The bike has never sounded so good. Best $48.98 farkle money can buy.  :banana :banana :banana :banana

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #28 on: October 11, 2014, 07:49:23 PM »
You can see how far the plunger can move. The ratchet design on this part is terrible. Mother Kawi, either build a better ratchet system in the CCT or just install a manual tensioner and make it part of the maintenance schedule.







sailor_chic

  • Guest
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #29 on: October 12, 2014, 02:47:34 AM »
I was looking on the APE website, and I dont see a  2013 C14 listed. Do you have a part number?

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #30 on: October 12, 2014, 06:55:34 AM »
The one for an earlier C-14 will work (if they have those) or any early ZX 14 will also fit (say, 06 thru '12). That is what I bought quite a few years ago because they did not list one for the C-14 at all.

Brian

I was looking on the APE website, and I dont see a  2013 C14 listed. Do you have a part number?
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #31 on: October 12, 2014, 07:21:48 AM »
The kwak cam chain tensioner part number is the same (12048-0047) from 2008-2013 so Kwackers hasn't changed anything.  The ZX-14 is 0083 so they're different but if Brian says that's what he used regarding APE then that should work fine.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #32 on: October 12, 2014, 07:34:06 AM »
Yes, the Concours CTT and the ZX CTT have always been different. But the engine / cam chain placement is the same so the same manual CCT will work in either one. At least up to the very recent, larger ZX engines: I just do not know about that one. I think it was 2013 when Kawi upped the displacement of the ZX. I would <expect> the CCT's to still be swappable but just do not know.

A call or E-mail to A.P.E. would probably answer those questions.

Brian

The kwak cam chain tensioner part number is the same (12048-0047) from 2008-2013 so Kwackers hasn't changed anything.  The ZX-14 is 0083 so they're different but if Brian says that's what he used regarding APE then that should work fine.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #33 on: October 12, 2014, 11:03:35 AM »
I was looking on the APE website, and I dont see a  2013 C14 listed. Do you have a part number?

APE MANUAL CAM CHAIN TENSIONER KTZX14 KAWASAKI

Item #42-9KTZX14

http://www.streetandcomp.com/store/itemdesc.asp?ic=42%2D9KTZX14&eq=&Tp=

$49, they also have a "pro" model for $85. Before installing I set the bolt at the same distance as the OEM with the plunger all the way in. After installation I adjusted by hand (no wrench) by turning it in until I couldn't anymore. Then with the bike on center stand and in 6th gear. I turned the engine over by turning the back wheel which allowed me to turn the adjustment bolt in a bit more and repeated about 3 or 4 times. Just finger thumb tight (easy boys). Then I turned it out a 1/2 turn. Then put it in neutral, started the engine and it was quiet as can be. Just for grins I turned it out until it just started rattling again (about 2 turns), turned it back in until it got hard to turn (again just by finger and feel), backed it out 1/4 turn, stopped the engine and tightened the lock nut. Easy schmeazy. All death rattle gone. My bike would rattle just sitting at a stop light. Not anymore.

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11333
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #34 on: October 13, 2014, 04:59:20 AM »
It says it doesn't have a gasket.  What gasket did you use to seal it?
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #35 on: October 13, 2014, 06:45:41 AM »
It says it doesn't have a gasket.  What gasket did you use to seal it?

The OEM didn't have a gasket or O ring and didn't leak. I went with that. I'll have a look in a month and if it's leaking I'll use some Permatex.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #36 on: October 13, 2014, 08:42:39 AM »
Just took a quick look at the parts fiche and it apparently does have a gasket- part no.: 11061-0299

Maybe it was stuck on your original tensioner and you did not notice it? Or it was stuck on the head, you did not notice that but all is well 'cause there is a gasket under the new CCT? :-)

Brian

The OEM didn't have a gasket or O ring and didn't leak. I went with that. I'll have a look in a month and if it's leaking I'll use some Permatex.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Rhino

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3963
  • Country: us
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #37 on: October 13, 2014, 09:31:22 AM »
Just took a quick look at the parts fiche and it apparently does have a gasket- part no.: 11061-0299

Maybe it was stuck on your original tensioner and you did not notice it? Or it was stuck on the head, you did not notice that but all is well 'cause there is a gasket under the new CCT? :-)

Brian

I definitely looked. Didn't see any gasket at all. Definitely was not stuck to the OEM CCT but I suppose I could have missed it on the head but I don't think so. I also just looked at bikebandit.com and they show a gasket.

The APE had a rather wide groove that looked like an O ring could have gone there but it looked too wide. Much wider then it was deep. I thought about it and was thinking of running to the store for some permatex or an O ring that would fit but since it looked like there wasn't any on the original and it wasn't leaking, I went and installed the APE without a either. Like I said, I'll pop the center faring off in a few weeks and see if any oil is leaking. If so, some sort of form-a-gasket will be my remedy.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #38 on: October 13, 2014, 02:48:46 PM »
Yeah, well at least this is a high quality Japanese product. You know, the ones who know how to machine surfaces flat. We have an excellent chance of even metal- to- metal surfaces not leaking.

 :rotflmao:

Brian

I definitely looked. Didn't see any gasket at all. Definitely was not stuck to the OEM CCT but I suppose I could have missed it on the head but I don't think so. I also just looked at bikebandit.com and they show a gasket.

The APE had a rather wide groove that looked like an O ring could have gone there but it looked too wide. Much wider then it was deep. I thought about it and was thinking of running to the store for some permatex or an O ring that would fit but since it looked like there wasn't any on the original and it wasn't leaking, I went and installed the APE without a either. Like I said, I'll pop the center faring off in a few weeks and see if any oil is leaking. If so, some sort of form-a-gasket will be my remedy.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline twowheeladdict

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 1198
  • Country: 00
Re: Manual Cam Chain Tensioner
« Reply #39 on: October 13, 2014, 03:49:11 PM »
I already have my ear plugs in before I start up the bike.  Never heard a rattle.   ???
My Concours Travels:
2014 New England Tour http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17336.msg212077#msg212077