MC Enterprises Concours Canyon Cage Discussion

[RyanMCEnterprises]

G'day everyone! Well, since we got so much interest in designing and manufacturing a set of Canyon Cages for the Connie, I decided to start a new thread so we could discuss what you guys would really want in front-end protection. Seeing as how this would be a ground-up production, I'd really like to get your guys' feedback so we can build these things to the specifications of serious civilian riders. I have attached a few photos to this thread of current Canyon Cages we make so those of you not familiar with them can get an idea of where we'd be going with this.

I was looking at pictures of the GSG bars, which seem to be the aesthetic favorite, and I wondered a few things: Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application? Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification? Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage? How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)? Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?

I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible. I know it's a lofty goal but I'd like this Canyon Cage to be the end-all, be-all for civilian protection on the Concours. So, let's hear it! What would you like to see and what do you hate to see?

[Bosco]

Here are my opinions

1)  Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?

I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?

Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also.

3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?

No preference at this time.

3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?

Lean angle does not matter much to me. (Read as old fart with large chicken strips.)

4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?

They just look awful.

5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.

I really like the protection, as the bike is very top heavy. I know that I will drop it eventually. I just don't want to be seen sitting on the bike with those rails.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Duplicate post. Please delete.

Seriously? I didn't see a thread regarding MC Enterprises manufacturing new front-end protection but if there is I apologize.

[Bosco]

Seriously? I didn't see a thread regarding MC Enterprises manufacturing new front-end protection but if there is I apologize.

I meant my post is was a duplicate. That is post number 3. Just that post not the thread.

[Conrad]

I'm going to follow Bosco's format here.


1) Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?

I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that, up to a point

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?

Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also.

3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?

No preference at this time.

3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?

For me lean angle is VERY important. If the bars are going to limit my lean then I'll be looking elsewhere.

4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?

They just look awful. I know that it's a tall order to make something that's going to do the job yet still look good. The bars should follow the lines of the bike.

This maybe difficult to engineer into the bars but some guys would like to be able to mount aux lighting to the bars.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

I meant my post is was a duplicate. That is post number 3. Just that post not the thread.

Ohhh, I see what you were saying now. My bad, I thought you meant there had already been a thread on this subject. 

Here are my opinions

1)  Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?

I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?

Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also.

1) It's not that it would be "better" necessarily, just better looking. All drilling into the fairing does is expose internal mounting points so you can make a more direct, compact bar. Although, that does add a bit of strength to the bars. However, it takes away from the surface area it protects. So, it's a bit of give and take.

2) Unfortunately, that may require getting a second bike in our facility. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to make a Canyon Cage for both generations but we may have to take it one step at a time and work with what we can get our hands on.

3) Regarding AUX lighting, I've been considering welding a small plate with a single hole on the inside portion of the bar (the part closest to the bike so it's hidden when not in use) as long as space permits.

[philipintexas]

It's a tall order, but look at a Goldwing as a guide, they have probably the least obtrusive tip-over bars, but one of the most effective.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

It's a tall order, but look at a Goldwing as a guide, they have probably the least obtrusive tip-over bars, but one of the most effective.

I'll definitely check into those! Anything I can use to get ideas would be great. I know it's going to be nearly impossible but I'd really like these bars to be a culmination of everything we love in tip-over protection while eliminating as many things we hate as reasonably possible.

[gPink]

The Top-Block look the best and also require fairing hole. Also very pricey. The above picture of the R6 where the two bars meet should have a slider on the common mounting point two keep that from digging in the road. Maximum lean angle necessary. Bars should follow lines of bike in order to look as integral as possible.

[The Pope]

Yes, that's a great format ...

1)  Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?

I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that (I agree)

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?

Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also. (Don't care, as I have the newer model.)

3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?

No preference at this time.

3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?

Very important to me.

4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?

I don't mind the looks. I currently have them installed.

5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.

I wish that there was a quick removal system. If the main mounting tubes were of a two piece design incorporating a solid internal pin that was cross drilled to accept a locking pin or a locking pin like is used on receiver trailer hitches that would be nice. That way the outer section could be easily removed as needed. It’s just that it’s a pain to have to deal with the guards each time when you need to take the plastic off of the bike.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

These are all great points, keep them coming! I'm taking notes over here so when we begin to do preliminary design I can keep all of this stuff in mind and incorporate as much as possible!

So it seems as though drilling is acceptable as long as the bar looks great and functions well. Perhaps I can cook up a similar design to those of the Top-Blocks that don't cost $700. 

I also love the idea of the quick-removal system (I've actually been looking into this for a while) but I have some serious considerations regarding strength. I'll have to look into this more when we have a preliminary design in mind and I have the bike in front of me to look at.

[556ALPHA]

Duplicate post. Please delete.

You can just hit remove from the top right corner of your own post if you are signed in.

Ryan please advise if tou get any volunteers for an 08/09. If nobody volunteers I guess I will get a set of GSG sliders for the front.   I do not mind drilling if it helps with looks and strength.   Otherwise I prefer to be able to lean and that is about my only concern.   

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Ryan please advise if tou get any volunteers for an 08/09. If nobody volunteers I guess I will get a set of GSG sliders for the front.   I do not mind drilling if it helps with looks and strength.   Otherwise I prefer to be able to lean and that is about my only concern.   

I'll definitely keep you posted, bud. The only way I'd allow for drilling is if it really helped the aesthetics and strengthened the bar. So, if we do end up with a design that requires drilling you can be sure there's a purpose for it. I really don't think lean angle will be an issue with these bars, they'll allow you to go over as far as your tires will let you. 

[Gumby]

I just sent a PM to So Cal Joe to see if he could help out MCE or if he knew anybody down there that would give up there bike for a week.

So Cal Joe and a friend of his both have a 2009. I will send him a link to this thread and I will continue looking for someone willing to volunteer a 2011.


1)  Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?

I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better with drilling I would be OK with that (I agree) +2

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?

Beefier bar would be OK, but make sure any bar will fit the 08-09 also. (Don't care, as I have the newer model.) +1

3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?

No preference at this time.

3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?

Very important to me. +1. The bars better not hit before my foot peg .

4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?

I don't like that some of the sliders requires you to buy front wheel slider as well. That made me think of something. With the MCE rear bag guards will I still need rear axle sliders?

5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.

See above 

[wally_games]

Looking at your pictures, those GSXR bars are a bit obtrusive looking to me, but I really like the looks of the ones on the R6. I'd agree that there needs to be a slider of some sort on that forward point to prevent it from digging in in impact.
Also, I ride a 2011, so obviously that would be my priority. Anything you'd design would have to follow the lines of the bike really well so as to make them less noticable.

1)  Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better looking with drilling, I would be OK with that.

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
I'd prefer to drill a hole rather than have some big honkin' bar hanging out there.

3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
What's a 2.5 point cage? I'd think that a 3 point would be stronger than a 2 point.

3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
I want to be able to get the Connie over to the pegs without touching other hardware.

4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
The Top Blocks for the 2010+ are just plain ugly, unlike the 2008/2009 model which follow the lines of the bike really well, but their price is just way too far up there.

5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
See above.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Looking at your pictures, those GSXR bars are a bit obtrusive looking to me, but I really like the looks of the ones on the R6. I'd agree that there needs to be a slider of some sort on that forward point to prevent it from digging in in impact.
Also, I ride a 2011, so obviously that would be my priority. Anything you'd design would have to follow the lines of the bike really well so as to make them less noticable.

1)  Would you guys mind a Canyon Cage that required drilling into the fairing if it meant a cleaner, better looking application?
I would prefer no drilling, but if it was better looking with drilling, I would be OK with that.

2) Or, would you rather have a slightly beefier bar that used external mounting points exclusively as to avoid fairing modification?
I'd prefer to drill a hole rather than have some big honkin' bar hanging out there.

3) Would you prefer a single-bar, 2 point cage or a slightly beefier 2 or 3-bar, 2.5 or 3 point cage?
What's a 2.5 point cage? I'd think that a 3 point would be stronger than a 2 point.

3) How much does lean angle matter to you (this was a huge selling point for our Canyon Cages on the supersports as they protrude LESS than standard frame sliders)?
I want to be able to get the Connie over to the pegs without touching other hardware.

4) Also, are there any other things that bother you about currently available front-end protection?
The Top Blocks for the 2010+ are just plain ugly, unlike the 2008/2009 model which follow the lines of the bike really well, but their price is just way too far up there.

5) I'd really like to hear what bothers you folks about the fairing guards that are currently on the market so we can work to eliminate as much of those things as possible.
See above.

Good points. If we end up going ahead with a design for the Connie I'll definitely look into putting a thin delrin tip if the bars come to a similar point as they do on the R6.

A 2.5 point cage has two mounting points on either side of the bike and then connect together somewhere, generally underneath the bike. The Canyon Cage for the GSXR is a 2.5 point cage as it connects underneath. The difference between a 2 and 3 point cage isn't so much strength (either one is plenty strong to hold up in a tip-over incident) but weight distribution. That's one bad thing about generic frame sliders: When the bike goes over, the entire weight of the bike is on one single point which can lead to dents in the frame. The distribution of force is wider when the guard mounts to the frame in more than one or two spots.

I also agree that regardless of style, the bar needs to follow the lines of the bike well. That's really the main thing that helps the guards disappear into the fairing, is when it looks like it really belongs there and goes with the contours of the Concours (see what I did there?!).

Hopefully I can work on the owners and get a new Connie in our facility to toy around with!

[wendel]

I prefer not to drill a hole in the plastic. If I sell the bike in the future, I want to remove the bars in the event I buy an updated C14 mechanically with the same mounting points in the future. Or if I go a different route, I want to beable to sell the parts unless a buyer was willing to pay a reasonable amount for them.

For me sh=t happens when I drill holes. Be my luck the hole would get botched.

I want protection that will allow me to get sporty in the mountains. I do not want to have to worry about dropping it while doing parking lot manuevers. I think the fact that parking lot practice can be expensive when dropped without proper protection sticks in people's mind and makes them more timid than they should be.

The ability to have a quick disconnect is a great idea.

I like the idea you are willing to give the group buyers consideration when/if you are able to produce the canyon bars. We will take a hit on the fronts when we try to sell them.

A mounting point for auxillary lighting would be nice. I have a set of PIAAs ready to mount when I get my bars.

[leyenda30]

Is it possible to add a tab to the front of bar or a threaded insert for highway pegs that would look  more in keeping with this sleek looking bike?  If so I'm in for a set.

[ZG]

I have a couple comments...
 
First off I think it's great what Ryan and MCE are doing here with this thread and interaction, actually listening to their potential customers during the design faze, wow what a concept!
    
 
 
For many of years everbody (other than maybe one or two who have no taste...) have voiced that the Top Block setup is the best looking (and functional) product available for the Connie. One problem for some though is that buying from Top Block can be challenging since they're a French company and their website is not as english friendly as it could be during the inquiry/ordering process. The other problem for some is that the cost of the Top Block solution is quite spendy to some...
 
For as long as I've been a part of this forum folks are always pushing for (and some even trying it on their own) to design and manufacture a product similar to the Top Block at a lower cost and available in the USA...
 
FWIW Ryan, maybe MCE should try and design something just similar to the Top Block but at a lower cost, and obviously since you are a US company it would be much easier for the US market to purchase, plus I would think you have the design engineers and machinery to pull off something like that product much easier than the typical creative forum member doing trial/error experiments in their home garage...
 
Either way I wish you the best on this whatever direction it goes, I like seeing my brutha's here getting what they want and being proud of the looks of it! 
 

 
 
I myself am perfectly happy with my Top Block set-up! 
 




 
 
Not only look good but they also work... 
 

 

[Gumby]

Is it possible to add a tab to the front of bar or a threaded insert for highway pegs that would look  more in keeping with this sleek looking bike?  If so I'm in for a set.

I put a pair of clip-on pegs on the engine guards for my Tiger and those work great. I would rather do that on the Canyon Cage bars then to have another ugly tab.

If you try and copy the Top-Block sliders, highway pegs would not be possible 

My two cents.