MC Enterprises Concours Canyon Cage Discussion

[Conrad]

The problem with the Top Blocks, as demonstrated in ZG's last pic, is that they might not protect the bags. In a controlled parking lot type drop, in which the rider knows that the bike is going down and he does his best to help her down as gently as possible, the Top Blocks alone would work fine. But I think that a rougher drop would cause a little tipping or even a bounce that would bang the corner of the bags.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

The problem with the Top Blocks, as demonstrated in ZG's last pic, is that they might not protect the bags. In a controlled parking lot type drop, in which the rider knows that the bike is going down and he does his best to help her down as gently as possible, the Top Blocks alone would work fine. But I think that a rougher drop would cause a little tipping or even a bounce that would bang the corner of the bags.

First off, I'd like to thank ZG for the kind words! We certainly do our best to satisfy our customers and it's not always as easy as it seems! I think the design of the Top Blocks is optimal and I'll begin building off that idea. I can tell you that our version would probably be tubular though and not cast which would cut down tremendously on cost.

Do any of you guys have an issue with tubular Canyon Cages as opposed to the cast variation of the Top Blocks? A tubular design would help keep the cost cut nearly in half.

Regarding Conrads comments, I don't think any front-end protection is going to fully protect the rear end of the bike. This is partially why we decided to design a separate guard for the rear of the bike.

[wally_games]

First off, I'd like to thank ZG for the kind words! We certainly do our best to satisfy our customers and it's not always as easy as it seems! I think the design of the Top Blocks is optimal and I'll begin building off that idea. I can tell you that our version would probably be tubular though and not cast which would cut down tremendously on cost.

Do any of you guys have an issue with tubular Canyon Cages as opposed to the cast variation of the Top Blocks? A tubular design would help keep the cost cut nearly in half.

Regarding Conrads comments, I don't think any front-end protection is going to fully protect the rear end of the bike. This is partially why we decided to design a separate guard for the rear of the bike.

I love the look of ZG's Top Block tip over protection. But, if you've ever seen the ugly ones that they make for the newer models, you'd say "no way am I putting those on my bike". The don't follow the lines of the bike at all like ZG's model. They're tubular too, which is ok with me, but not "fitting in" is a problem in my mind.

Are we talking ONLY tip over protection? Or, are we talking about something to offer some protection in a slide?

[Bosco]

These are not the same bars. The bottom one looks tubular. The top one, looks like it is from your bike ZG, but the bottom one looks like it is off of another bike.

[Gumby]

Ha, busted....

Anybody that takes that many pictures of his bike would not chance scratching it by setting it on its side? 

[ZG]

These are not the same bars. The bottom one looks tubular. The top one, looks like it is from your bike ZG, but the bottom one looks like it is off of another bike.

Correct, the top pics are of mine (2009 model), the bike on it's side is Freds (2010 model)... I don't have the guts to willingly lay mine on it's side... 
 
It's the same design concept though.
 
 

Ha, busted....

Anybody that takes that many pictures of his bike would not chance scratching it by setting it on its side? 

True dat Gumbi! 

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Are we talking ONLY tip over protection? Or, are we talking about something to offer some protection in a slide?

Well, when I say tip-over protection I just mean fairing guards in general. It'd be nice if the final product we do come out with would be strong enough to withstand a sliding impact (similar to the way our current guards hold up). To me, it seems the design is going to determine how beat up the bike will be after a sliding impact rather than the strength. TopBlocks guards are certainly strong enough to withstand a sliding impact but their low position on the fairing seems to allow the bike to "rock" onto the mirrors or handlebars during a more violent spill. In a perfect world, I'd like to design low-profile bars that do not restrict lean angle whatsoever yet come up high enough on the body of the bike to stop it from "rocking" onto the mirrors if you were to go down at speed.

I already have a base design in mind that I'm toying with and it appears as though a 2.5 point cage similar to our GSXR Canyon Cage may be best. There would be two mounting points on either side of the bike (most likely where the rear of the TopBlock guard mounts, to the lower mount we currently use inside the vents, to a connection point underneath the bike). However, I'm not quite sure yet if this design will allow mounting without drilling or not.

[maxtog]

I'd really like to get your guys' feedback so we can build these things to the specifications of serious civilian riders.

My responses are not in any particular order

1) I think your canyons look 1,000 times better than the bathroom bars.

2) I personally wouldn't care if it were 2, 3, or even 4 mount points.

3) I personally don't care about EXTREME lean angles.

4) I am *very* averse to drilling or modifying my fairing panels.

5) It would be nice to have other color options.  Black won't look good on light colored bikes, leaving only the chrome option.  Chrome doesn't meld terribly well the the Concours, which uses an aluminum look on the sides, pegs, etc and has NO chrome anywhere.  Also, chrome can't be easily be repaired or fixed if it gets badly scuffed.  My personal preference would be to have a silver/gray powdercoat option.

6) I am not thrilled about any protection that requires removing them and then reinstalling them every time I need to take the fairings off.  It is already hard enough to change a turn signal bulb...  However, I understand that there is probably no other option.  GSG's are about the most you can do for the front without impeding fairing removal.

7) I don't expect perfect protection from a true slide/accident.  Like most people, I am looking for 100% protection from tip-overs, and extremely low speed fall-overs (like stop lights, u-turns, bad footing, etc).  This might also answer your strength question, too.

Hope this helps.

[RyanMCEnterprises]

1) I think your canyons look 1,000 times better than the bathroom bars.

2) I personally wouldn't care if it were 2, 3, or even 4 mount points.

3) I personally don't care about EXTREME lean angles.

4) I am *very* averse to drilling or modifying my fairing panels.

5) It would be nice to have other color options.  Black won't look good on light colored bikes, leaving only the chrome option.  Chrome doesn't meld terribly well the the Concours, which uses an aluminum look on the sides, pegs, etc.  Also, chrome can't be easily be repaired or fixed if it gets badly scuffed.

6) I am not thrilled about any protection that requires removing them and then reinstalling them every time I need to take the fairings off.  It is already hard enough to change a turn signal bulb...  However, I understand that there is probably no other option.  GSG's are about the most you can do for the front without impeding fairing removal.

Hope this helps.

Thanks, Max! I appreciate all opinions!

[maxtog]

The problem with the Top Blocks, as demonstrated in ZG's last pic, is that they might not protect the bags. In a controlled parking lot type drop, in which the rider knows that the bike is going down and he does his best to help her down as gently as possible, the Top Blocks alone would work fine. But I think that a rougher drop would cause a little tipping or even a bounce that would bang the corner of the bags.

I, too, have pointed that out in many posts.  In a real-world situation, I seriously doubt the Top Block will protect the bags, the bike is going to roll over and smash the bags for sure, unless you very carefully and slowly PLACE the bike on its side.   It doesn't have to be a "rougher drop", just a push over and I bet it will smash the bags.  Plus, if the ground is not level, you will have lost your 1" clearance or whatever it might have been.

So I think even with Top Block, you would still need the MCE small rear bars to be effective.

[maxtog]

The white elephant in the room is probably these, mentioned in another thread:

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx

"R&G Adventure Bars."  No question this is the same general class that McE is targeting with "Canyon Cages" 

They are pretty darn thin.  And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion.  Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.

[ZG]

Just in case anyone is intersted in how the Top Block mounts and why/where you have to drill the hole here is the install directions translated into english and also an overview of how/where they mount.
 
Maybe this will be helpfull in your brainstorming session...
 
 
 
This is a fun and entertaining thread!   

[RyanMCEnterprises]

Just in case anyone is intersted in how the Top Block mounts and why/where you have to drill the hole here is the install directions translated into english and also an overview of how/where they mount.
 
Maybe this will be helpfull in your brainstorming session...

This is definitely helpful, thank you for posting! I'll take a look at their mounting instructions and see if I can pry any useful information out of 'em!

The white elephant in the room is probably these, mentioned in another thread:

http://www.twistedthrottle.com/trade/productview/6763/602/
http://www.rg-racing.com/browseType/Adventure_Bars/AB0002BK.aspx

"R&G Adventure Bars."  No question this is the same general class that McE is targeting with "Canyon Cages" 

They are pretty darn thin.  And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion.  Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.

Yes, I've seen these before! These are a good example of what we're looking to do, as well. I'm not sure I like how close the lower mount gets to the brake/shifter but it's hard to tell from the picture that was provided.

When you say thin, do you mean the material they used to make the bar itself or are you talking about how far they protrude from the fairings? I've come to realize that material diameter doesn't matter quite as much as the wall thickness of said material. Generally we go with either 1" or 7/8" material with a wall thickness of 0.083. However, protrusion on our Canyon Cages won't be an issue as they're going to be insanely close to the fairing.

[gPink]

Ryan, you need to be sure the new fronts blend well with the small rears I just bought.

In the several accidents/wrecks I've had on bikes, both low and high speed, these are my thoughts:
1. Damage is inevitable.
2. Low speed damage can be mitigated somewhat with the measures we are discussing. 5mph and -
3. High speed crash the main concern I have is keeping the bike off me. Few crashes are a race track flat slide to a grass runoff. In a crash at speed the bags are going to go away. The small rears will give me separation time. In order for front protection to save the plastic we're back to the cop setup. Obviously this is unacceptable.

 So what we have is a form/function-function/form compromise to settle on. So the end result for me is low speed drops are covered and high speed crashs I survive to collect the insurance. And look good doing it. Good luck.

[ZG]

This is definitely helpful, thank you for posting! I'll take a look at their mounting instructions and see if I can pry any useful information out of 'em!

No worries bro, happy to help the brainstorming efforts here...
 
Keep in mind that those are for the 08/09 Connie (because the 09 ABS black is the best all around Connie ever built!  ), not sure about the 10+ design but maybe somebody out there with the 10+ TB design can post up the install directions and mounting schematic for theirs.

[RBX QB]

...

They are pretty darn thin.  And there are no photos anywhere from an angle, so it is hard to tell the protrusion.  Zero info about how much protection on front fairings/mirror/etc for a tipover.

Front shots here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg31921#msg31921

[maxtog]

Front shots here... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2778.msg31921#msg31921

Wow- forgot about that thread.  Thanks.
Still kinda hard to tell protrusion, but they look to be really close to the fairing.

[556ALPHA]

Just a little input, some guys have Ronnie's Highway pegs, they attach like this:

[leyenda30]

When I mentioned pegs I had these BMW models (link below) in mind for those who want them. They are barely seen when not in use or in our case here it could be offered as an add on or make a provision to allow the owner to mount them. I don't like buying separate peg mounts whereas the crash protection is strong enough to do both jobs and look well. It's great to have someone like Ryan to listen to our needs and design the best solution at a reasonable price.

http://www.cvmtouringaccessories.com/J_Pegs/default.html

[Mal]

When I mentioned pegs I had these BMW models (link below) in mind for those who want them. They are barely seen when not in use or in our case here it could be offered as an add on or make a provision to allow the owner to mount them. I don't like buying separate peg mounts whereas the crash protection is strong enough to do both jobs and look well. It's great to have someone like Ryan to listen to our needs and design the best solution at a reasonable price.

http://www.cvmtouringaccessories.com/J_Pegs/default.html

Oh man, those are fricken trick! If the canyon cage has a horizontal bar along the bottom, something like that could be attached underneath and be hidden when not in use...