Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: aandrmotorsport on December 30, 2011, 12:31:55 PM
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Hello everyone. My name is Patrick from A&R Motorsports. Recently we released a HID for the Concours 14 with step by step instructions so that even some of the most technically challenged folks can install there own HID kit. I want to stress that this is not a sales call so to speak, I am hoping that someone can provide some input on our Concours kit.
If you havent seen the kit you can take a gander at it here. http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=1426 (http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=1426)
Safe riding to you all.
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Give me one and i'll provide some input ;D
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Order just placed, thanks Patrick! Here's to a "brighter" 2012! :chugbeer: 8)
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I will do the same. +1 :-)
Give me one and i'll provide some input ;D
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So far I like how you do business Patrick, I sent a pm and had paypal invoice within 30 minutes, I paid and an hour later had a UPS tracking number for my order. Very nice easy process, thanks bro! :thumbs:
I'll provide some feedback on the product when it arrives and get's installed next week...
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I have had my set for over 20 months and they still are working great. I had a problem after a few months, but A&R took care of it quickly, and that was 15 months ago and no problems since. +1 for a great product and customer service.
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Easily installed, fit great, huge difference in the amount of light from stock.
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I've had my kit for almost a year with no problems. I have always dealt with Rob and his service is top notch. Two big thumbs up.
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I have been using your kit or about 20 months and have been very peased with it, substantial improvement over stock.
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I love hearing all of this great input. I hope I hear some input about our new directions. Rob just spent time and did a step by step instruction sheet for the C14 ... looks like it will make it super easy for anyone to install it.
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I love hearing all of this great input. I hope I hear some input about our new directions. Rob just spent time and did a step by step instruction sheet for the C14 ... looks like it will make it super easy for anyone to install it.
Hey Patrick, can you post a link to the install directions? I'm for some reason not easily finding it on your site? If not on your site can you either post or email me the install directions as a PDF or ??
My kit should arrive to me from you this Friday, looking forward to it! :chugbeer:
Thanks Bro.
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Hey Patrick, can you post a link to the install directions? I'm for some reason not easily finding it on your site? If not on your site can you either post or email me the install directions as a PDF or ??
My kit should arrive to me from you this Friday, looking forward to it! :chugbeer:
Thanks Bro.
The kit comes with a link to the instructions. If you have problems with getting to it I would be more than happy to PM you a link.
I hope you enjoy the kit, I would love to hear a review from you after you install it.
-Patrick
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The kit comes with a link to the instructions. If you have problems with getting to it I would be more than happy to PM you a link.
I hope you enjoy the kit, I would love to hear a review from you after you install it.
-Patrick
Will do Patrick, thanks bro.
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Someone should set up another group buy again :)
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If someone sets it up, I'll make it a sticky for awhile...
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UPS dropped off my kit today, thanks Patrick.
Hopefully getting it installed tomorrow, more to come...
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Installed! Thanks Patrick, quality kit! :thumbs:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00768-20120107-1550.jpg)
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/IMG00771-20120107-1552.jpg)
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If someone sets it up, I'll make it a sticky for awhile...
I'll try to give Rob a call on Monday to see what we can set up. Last time I think we got in upwards of 30-40 orders.
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Tanks!
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I'll try to give Rob a call on Monday to see what we can set up. Last time I think we got in upwards of 30-40 orders.
I just set up a coupon code for you guys to use. It will give you a $5 discount on the kit and free shipping. Just use the discount code "farkle" to receive the discount.
If you would like to do a group buy we can do $115 shipped if we get 10 or more.
-Patrick
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sounds like a pretty good deal... I'm in - 9 more to go
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I'm going to sticky a new thread in the C14 Accessory area. It will have more visibility there.
Group buy thread set up.... http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6291.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6291.0)
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Patrick, how long are you going to run this special?
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Patrick, how long are you going to run this special?
There is no expiration as of right now, I will offer special forum pricing as long as I am allowed.
-Patrick
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Thanks!
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What bulb temp is everyone getting?
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What bulb temp is everyone getting?
I just got the 6000k setup Sparky. :)
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What bulb temp is everyone getting?
That is up to them. ;)
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Maybe one of you guys can help but when I try to get into A&R's website I get this every time:
Forbidden
You don't have permission to access /directions/concourshidinstructions.html on this server.
Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
Apache/2.2.16 (Unix) mod_ssl/2.2.16 OpenSSL/0.9.8e-fips-rhel5 mod_mono/2.6.3 mod_auth_passthrough/2.1 mod_bwlimited/1.4 FrontPage/5.0.2.2635 mod_perl/2.0.4 Perl/v5.8.8 Server at www.aandrmotorsport.com (http://www.aandrmotorsport.com) Port 80
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True. But as a novice in HID lighting I would like to be enlightened on why so many bulb temps. What does a higher temp signify? Brightness? Will the higher temps draw LEOs? I'm interested in improving the lighting but I don't want to melt anything in the bike to get it.
In looking at your website, I don't want anything looking blue so I think the 4300k would work for me. It has the most lumens as well. Is bulb life related to color or lumens?
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True. But as a novice in HID lighting I would like to be enlightened on why so many bulb temps. What does a higher temp signify? Brightness? Will the higher temps draw LEOs? I'm interested in improving the lighting but I don't want to melt anything in the bike to get it.
In looking at your website, I don't want anything looking blue so I think the 4300k would work for me. It has the most lumens as well. Is bulb life related to color or lumens?
To build on your query...
Question for those smarter than I... How much brighter is the 4300k(3100 lumen) compared to the 6000k(2900 lumen)? I assume that the cutoffs would be similar... but I'm just trying to gauge the brightness, as I HATE lights that appear to be blinding to oncoming drivers/riders.
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To build on your query...
Question for those smarter than I... How much brighter is the 4300k(3100 lumen) compared to the 6000k(2900 lumen)? I assume that the cutoffs would be similar... but I'm just trying to gauge the brightness, as I HATE lights that appear to be blinding to oncoming drivers/riders.
Even more questions: Is the color temp based on the ballast, the bulb, or the combo? You see the next question coming right?
wait for it now.....wait... ::)
What's involved to change from 4300k to 6000k and/or reverse?
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The bulbs decide the temp (color). They can be swapped very easily since everything in the A&R kit comes with weatherproof connections.
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True. But as a novice in HID lighting I would like to be enlightened on why so many bulb temps. What does a higher temp signify? Brightness? Will the higher temps draw LEOs? I'm interested in improving the lighting but I don't want to melt anything in the bike to get it.
In looking at your website, I don't want anything looking blue so I think the 4300k would work for me. It has the most lumens as well. Is bulb life related to color or lumens?
The bulb temps refer to the color of light that it puts out. Higher temps will likely draw LEOs. None of the temps should melt your bike, just know that the higher you go in temp, the less light it puts out. Bulb life on the higher temps is substantially shorter on the higher temp bulbs than it is on the 4300k and 6000k bulbs.
So sorry it took me so long to respond, I wish the forum sent me an email letting me know you guys were replying.
-Patrick
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So sorry it took me so long to respond, I wish the forum sent me an email letting me know you guys were replying.
-Patrick
You can set it up to email you in your settings Patrick.
Just don't let Jim tell you to change your email address... :-X
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::)
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::)
:grouphug:
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You can set it up to email you in your settings Patrick.
Just don't let Jim tell you to change your email address... :-X
I figured out what I was doing wrong. I am not used to this forum software.
-Patrick
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And sometimes neither are we..
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Even more questions: Is the color temp based on the ballast, the bulb, or the combo?
What's involved to change from 4300k to 6000k and/or reverse?
The bulbs decide the temp (color). They can be swapped very easily since everything in the A&R kit comes with weatherproof connections.
Thanks Jeremy!
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Contemplating whether this would be a better route to go than some of those cheap LED lights mounted to the front fender. This would be cheaper and easier to install.
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Contemplating whether this would be a better route to go than some of those cheap LED lights mounted to the front fender. This would be cheaper and easier to install.
I am thinking of going the HID route also vs add-on driving lights, as I desperately need additional lighting.
Anybody that has had both with an opinion.
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Looks like settings up another group buy by me is not going to happen [any time soon]. I don't have the time to commit to this like I did before. Most of the regular can tell i've been awal for quite some time now.
With regard to color temp, lumens and the like; the higher the color temp ( in terms of kelvin), the more blue there is in the light). My kit from 2008 was ordered with 4300K bulbs. Comparing the 4300K of the kit to the 4300K in my car shows a distinct difference. The bike's bulbs appear to have more white/blue in it. I'd almost guess to say the bulbs were closer to 5000K than 4300K. Either way, you do get more light on the road.
Lower kelvin bulbs emit more lumens (brighter light). For practical purposes, I probably would not go above 5000K.
Finally, although the bulbs work in the stock headlamp assembly, there is quite a bit of light scatter. On occasion, i'll have people flash their brights at me, understandably. The proper way to do HID is to replace the factory lens with a projector type lens. This focuses the light and eliminates the scatter. This is however a pricey proposition. I've been running the c14 hid kit on my fz1 since 2010 and over 30K miles. To date I've not been bothered or hassled by any leo's for non DOT conforming headlamps.
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Just curious... how does the HID conversion for H4 bulb handle the Lo/Hi beam? Is it a single filament with a motorized shield? Or dual filament?
I've done many HID conversions, but only on Low beam only single-filament lamps. To me, 4300k is the only way to go. I've tried 5000k and it's okay - still very white, with barely noticeable drop in brightness. Any higher color temp, and you're trying in vain to make your car/bike look more expensive than it really is.
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Just curious... how does the HID conversion for H4 bulb handle the Lo/Hi beam? Is it a single filament with a motorized shield? Or dual filament?
I've done many HID conversions, but only on Low beam only single-filament lamps. To me, 4300k is the only way to go. I've tried 5000k and it's okay - still very white, with barely noticeable drop in brightness. Any higher color temp, and you're trying in vain to make your car/bike look more expensive than it really is.
It is a single filament that is controlled by a magnet to change the angle.
As to "looking more expensive then it really is" that is an opinion that your are entitled to. But I like the 6000K since it stands out in traffic without being obviously blue/purple or annoying. At least to my eyes (and that is the only thing that matters to me since I was the one that paid for it).
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It is a single filament that is controlled by a magnet to change the angle.
As to "looking more expensive then it really is" that is an opinion that your are entitled to. But I like the 6000K since it stands out in traffic without being obviously blue/purple or annoying. At least to my eyes (and that is the only thing that matters to me since I was the one that paid for it).
Appreciate the explanation. Not sure how tilting of the filament angle would change the beam pattern in an H4 reflector. The blocking shield would still be there.
6000K isn't too terrible. It's the very visibly blue/purple ones that I was mostly referring to. Still, from 4300K, light output drops off steadily as the color temp increases, and human eye's sensitivity and depth perception decreases as the wavelength decreases (bluer). There isn't a technical reason to go higher, other than personal preference.
That said, the one advantage that HID does buy you - regardless of color temp - is attention from oncoming drivers, because the different color light does jump out in a sea of incandescent yellow. The bluer your lights is, however, the more that attention tilts toward the negative side. The last thing I want to do - especially on a bike - is to irk the ire of other drivers.
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It actually pulls the bulb closer to the housing to change the spread and angle of the beam. There is some scatter but is still much better than the stock lighting which was already very good from the factory.
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Okay, that make sense. So it pull the filament back to where the opening is on the blocking shield.
(http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/images/detailed/0/product_detailed_image_300_413.jpg)
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Not sure exactly, for all I know they just sprinkle fairy dust on it and it works. ;D
It is a little to bright for me to make out exactly what is going on but I can hear it click back and forth when I hit the bright/dim switch.
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Standing next to my Connie I can flip back and forth between low and high beem and see them push out and retract back in, it's pretty cool IMO... 8)
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Tampons for bulbs... What will they think of next :)
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And riders buy them... :rotflmao:
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I figured out what I was doing wrong. I am not used to this forum software.
-Patrick
You have a pm.
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Got the kit in yesterday and installed it today. I would not classify it as "easy", but not extremely difficult either. Had it not been for the web instructions/photos, it would have taken a lot longer. As it is, with having to remove the Canyons and fairings and such, it took me about 5 hours. The kit is good quality stuff, well packed, reasonable pricing, and things went just like the instructions show.
It is a cold and rainy day today, plus I am tired, so I did not ride the bike tonight with the HID installed yet. So some of my concerns, below, are based only on theory and non-riding observation....
I took some comparative photos (Philips halogen on the viewer's left, HID on the right). The first two are regular photos and in the second two the lenses are covered with paper and the exposure value reduced. So far, I am disappointed that the HID isn't brighter than it is. I am also extremely concerned that the HID only throws light only up into the reflector on both high and low beam. This is not the case with the Halogen, as you can see. Apparently that is the design of the HID bulb holder, which I will show in the next posting...
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Below are some additional photographs.
The first is a comparison of the Philips halogen bulb with dual filaments to the HID carrier/shroud. You can see on the halogen that there is a "pan" under the low-beam filament that blocks all light going downward. There is also a blue painted/dyed area around the low-beam filament that makes the resulting light whiter. The high-beam element has no such painted area. On the HID carrier, you can see slots on the bottom of the HID shroud, but not much light goes through them, ever.
The second photo is what the A&R HID bulb assembly looks like with the bulb installed. The front of the carrier is shiny and blocks all light going straight out so all light coming out of the bike is reflected. The metal cover in contact with the bulb does not move, and it helps to block stray light going up. that cover is only on the top. On high beam activation, a magnet pulls the bulb and cover to the back of the bike several millimeters. The business end of the bulb where light comes out does NOT line up with the slot in the bottom of the carrier and thus not much light ever comes out of the bottom.
The last photo is what the carrier and bulb looks like when installed into the Concours' headlight reflector.
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Congrats Max! :thumbs:
I can totally see the brightness difference in your first pic on the post before last. I think you'll notice it even more when you ride at night, I did, not only brighter but just more of a cleaner/crisp light if that makes any sense...
Enjoy! :chugbeer:
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How the light is dispersed and adjusted is most important, not so much how bright.
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I have had the A&R HID set up for a few months now. The amount of light these put out on low beams is amazing. Makes the stock bulbs look like a couple candles. The problem I am having is with the low beams adjusted just right (plenty of view and no mad on coming drivers flashing me) the high beams are in the trees, completely useless. The only thing I can see is when the bulbs retract in when put on high beam, it appears they also tilt (front end of bulb is higher than the rear). To anyone who have these HIDs how are your highbeams? Is this a common problem or do I have a problem?
Thanks for any input/advice.
Tim
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Real nice writeup Maxtog on this subject!! I ride at nite every day, (mourning commute) seriously considering this A&R kit, with more of your findings in the next few days and weeks, Also, can't advise on CitrusC14's issue, but will be monitoring is outcome.....
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[...]It is a cold and rainy day today, plus I am tired, so I did not ride the bike tonight with the HID installed yet. So some of my concerns, below, are based only on theory and non-riding observation.... [...]
OK, now I have a nighttime ride, and had to go a good ways to get to an area with no street lights and no cars so I could make some real observations.
Yes, they are brighter, no doubt now. And the 4300 color is excellent, seems the same as on my Infiniti. I immediately noticed the top cutoff is lower than on the halogens and had to stop several times and aim them up higher.
They are a lot more distracting than the halogens because they are "bouncier". I think there are two causes for this: One, there is a lot more mass than just bulbs in the housing now, but more importantly, there is a BOTTOM cutoff that is much more pronounced than with the halogens. So the areas near the bike have much less light that further down the road. All the vibration and bouncing of the bike is clearly relayed back to the rider from the bottom cutoff and it is going to take some getting used to. Also, there are a few horizontal darker stripes in the beam. The overall pattern is not great, worse than the halogens, MUCH worse than the Infiniti projectors. I agree that there is more scatter with the A&R HID than the stock halogens, too. The scatter is not awful, though.
I was worried the high beams would not be as effective, since [unlike the halogens on high beams] they are only using half the reflector. I think those fears are unnecessary.
It is going to take me more time to aim them properly. I am always afraid of blinding people, so I will have to go do some additional tests and adjustments later. I did the best I could while actually riding to try and make sure the low beams would not hit mirrors of other cars. After those adjustments (mostly raising them), when I got off the bike (side stand) and walked 100 feet away, the low beams seemed to be below my knees, which seemed surprisingly low.
Overall, it is an improvement over halogen. Once I get a few more trips at night and finish adjusting, I will know how much of an improvement. I am spoiled by expensive-car HID projectors and might have had my initial expectations a bit too high. I have no experience with "HID kits", so I don't know what is typical.
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I know what you mean about "expensive HID car projectors" I think the BI-Xenon in my G35x is some top shelf auto lighting, ( and i don't even have the tech pkge that turns the lamps 15* or so) So i would want my bike to be like that also, but i like the way your going about this,, ie, aiming as you go alittle at a time on the road, not against a wall....
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Well the car units are designed as an HID from the get go. Stuffing an HID bulb into a housing designed around a halogen bulb is a huge compromise.
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They are a lot more distracting than the halogens because they are "bouncier". I think there are two causes for this: One, there is a lot more mass than just bulbs in the housing now, but more importantly, there is a BOTTOM cutoff that is much more pronounced than with the halogens. So the areas near the bike have much less light that further down the road. All the vibration and bouncing of the bike is clearly relayed back to the rider from the bottom cutoff and it is going to take some getting used to.
I noticed that the bulbs are very loose in the ....(searching for term to use here)...actuator(?) ..that is the socket that the bulb slides back and forth in between low beam and high beam usage. I can hold the socket and make the bulb flop around just by moving the socket up and down. The movement is marginally lessened in the high beam position. It seems to me that this must add to the "bouncier" effect. I'm not sure how large the focal sweet spot is in the reflector, but I would think that the bulb movement must change the light pattern as well.
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I noticed that the bulbs are very loose in the ....(searching for term to use here)...actuator(?) ..that is the socket that the bulb slides back and forth in between low beam and high beam usage. I can hold the socket and make the bulb flop around just by moving the socket up and down. The movement is marginally lessened in the high beam position. It seems to me that this must add to the "bouncier" effect.
That is a very good observation and could account for the bounce, or at least part of it. One has to also wonder if that is good for the health of the bulb.
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Yep, you guys are a really bad influence.
Ordered a set for mine this morning. ::)
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Yep, you guys are a really bad influence.
Ordered a set for mine this morning. ::)
We try Rob... ;D
Congrats! :chugbeer:
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Have not installed mine yet but they sure do ship fast. Had mine in 2 days. Look forward to try and install in a couple of weeks
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We try Rob... ;D
Congrats! :chugbeer:
Thanks, I really need to beef up my low beams. With the additional 12,400 lumens of driving lights, the low beam looks like I'm pointing a weak flashlight out there. The additional 6,200 lumens of high beams won't bother me either. :)
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I am a little surprised that you seem under whelmed by the light output of those HIDs. By anyone's reckoning, they put out at least three times the light of any tungsten H4, at least the low beam, and twice what the H4 high beam puts out.
I think what you are seeing in the movement of the light pattern is just because the light is brighter- motorcycles always produce a 'flickering' headlight cut off but now that the light / dark ratio is so much higher using HID it is much more noticeable. The same thing is true for projector lights- because the cut off line is so much sharper than reflectors, the light is seen as being much more active when projectors are used instead of reflectors. That is the reason that most projector lenses are either Fresnel or very slightly frosted- to scatter some of that light and make the entire effect a bit softer. If the cut off line is quite sharp, as it is from projectors running true clear lenses, and the person looking at an oncoming vehicle is near that cut- off line, it appears that those headlights are flickering on and off very rapidly- the effect is called dazzle because of its sharpness. It is one of the big complaints about HID projectors, especially from older folks who have deteriorated lenses and retinas (and weight control, the ability to grow hair, think clearly.... I could go on and on) from years of sunlight exposure and just simple aging.
The beam from a C-14 headlight bucket retrofitted with HIDs is considerably wider but shorter (top to bottom) as compared with the original H4 lamp. I actually prefer the light on low beam, and high beam using HID works very well too until the bike is leaned over- then the beam does not have enough height to it. It isn't disastrous or anything, just a little less than desirable IMO. Still, an HID retrofit is a very positive thing overall I think and still pretty responsible for oncoming traffic provided the headlight lens is kept clean.
Brian
OK, now I have a nighttime ride, and had to go a good ways to get to an area with no street lights and no cars so I could make some real observations.
Yes, they are brighter, no doubt now. And the 4300 color is excellent, seems the same as on my Infiniti. I immediately noticed the top cutoff is lower than on the halogens and had to stop several times and aim them up higher.
They are a lot more distracting than the halogens because they are "bouncier". I think there are two causes for this: One, there is a lot more mass than just bulbs in the housing now, but more importantly, there is a BOTTOM cutoff that is much more pronounced than with the halogens. So the areas near the bike have much less light that further down the road. All the vibration and bouncing of the bike is clearly relayed back to the rider from the bottom cutoff and it is going to take some getting used to. Also, there are a few horizontal darker stripes in the beam. The overall pattern is not great, worse than the halogens, MUCH worse than the Infiniti projectors. I agree that there is more scatter with the A&R HID than the stock halogens, too. The scatter is not awful, though.
I was worried the high beams would not be as effective, since [unlike the halogens on high beams] they are only using half the reflector. I think those fears are unnecessary.
It is going to take me more time to aim them properly. I am always afraid of blinding people, so I will have to go do some additional tests and adjustments later. I did the best I could while actually riding to try and make sure the low beams would not hit mirrors of other cars. After those adjustments (mostly raising them), when I got off the bike (side stand) and walked 100 feet away, the low beams seemed to be below my knees, which seemed surprisingly low.
Overall, it is an improvement over halogen. Once I get a few more trips at night and finish adjusting, I will know how much of an improvement. I am spoiled by expensive-car HID projectors and might have had my initial expectations a bit too high. I have no experience with "HID kits", so I don't know what is typical.
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Yep, the aftermarket HID product is lacking a bit of precision and quality control. A standard headlight lamp is something that is usually made to extremely high tolerances to place the filament in exactly the right position over and over again so any bulb that fits a given housing will work properly. HID capsules (or burners) are made to exacting standards too to place the arc in a very exacting position for the very same reason. The aftermarket HIDs are quite poor by comparison and the 'bi- xenons' where the glass envelope moves is just terrible. Still they manage to work reasonably well which is almost amazing I think.
I don't know if the bulb in the aftermarket is really moving though in normal riding- I think the greater visual impact is mostly due to the much greater light and sharper cut off line between light and dark.
As bad as you think those sliding HIDs are, your opinion of them will go down if you take one apart. Remember back in 3rd grade when that teacher showed you how to make a magnet using a nail, a few turns of wire and a battery? That demonstration shows great quality compared to the innards of the Chinese HIDs that I have seen :-(
Brian
I noticed that the bulbs are very loose in the ....(searching for term to use here)...actuator(?) ..that is the socket that the bulb slides back and forth in between low beam and high beam usage. I can hold the socket and make the bulb flop around just by moving the socket up and down. The movement is marginally lessened in the high beam position. It seems to me that this must add to the "bouncier" effect. I'm not sure how large the focal sweet spot is in the reflector, but I would think that the bulb movement must change the light pattern as well.
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Brian, so you saying these hid bulbs use rusty nails for terminals inside??? :)
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Nope, I am saying they do not have anything inside that is as good as rusty nails....
:D
They are not really all that bad, just crude by modern standards- they look like they were hand wound (and given the labor costs there perhaps they are?). That, coupled with the lack of quality control, makes the product less than confidence inspiring. Still, they do seem to work and they do seem to work better than they did just a few years ago.
OFFTOPIC: I am not picking on products made in China here, just pointing out that they generally do not have the quality one would expect from modern production. They also have a very low cost, something else not found in most modern production. And China has come a tremendous way in a very short time- while the west invented the industrial revolution and has been collectively whittlin' on technological products for centuries, China was a relatively poor and almost technology free country up until very recently (1970's); their rate of improvement and learning is fantastic. At their current rate of improvement and growth, they could 'own' the entire planet's economy; I am still hopeful that the west can create a middle class in China and stop that horrible financial imbalance before they can stop manufacturing everywhere else in the world. Hey, it worked everywhere else the first world used the third world as a cheap labor source, right? When I was a kid, anything made in Japan was cheap junk only available because it was so inexpensive.
Brian
Brian, so you saying these hid bulbs use rusty nails for terminals inside??? :)
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I am a little surprised that you seem under whelmed by the light output of those HIDs. By anyone's reckoning, they put out at least three times the light of any tungsten H4, at least the low beam, and twice what the H4 high beam puts out.
Oh, they are brighter, no doubt. My main disappointment is with the pattern being kinda sucky. The light distribution is not as good as the H4 beams, and far worse than projector lenses. And the problem with lumens ratings is that is the ratings are for the bare bulbs. I don't doubt HID *BULBS* put out three times the light of an H4. However, I guarantee you that three times the total lumens is not hitting the road. A lot of the light is being intentionally blocked and not effectively reflected, due to the large outer shroud and little inner shroud. And parts of it is being scattered away.
I think what you are seeing in the movement of the light pattern is just because the light is brighter-[...]
I think that is part of it, yes. But I think the more pronounced lower cutoff and the bulbs jiggling a bit are part of it too.
The beam from a C-14 headlight bucket retrofitted with HIDs is considerably wider but shorter (top to bottom) as compared with the original H4 lamp. I actually prefer the light on low beam, and high beam using HID works very well too until the bike is leaned over- then the beam does not have enough height to it. It isn't disastrous or anything, just a little less than desirable IMO. Still, an HID retrofit is a very positive thing overall I think and still pretty responsible for oncoming traffic provided the headlight lens is kept clean.
Yes, the beam is not as tall, nor does it reach back to the bike either due to the higher low cutoff. And about keeping the lenses clean- OMG yes, I ALWAYS do. Dirty lenses will scatter light horribly and many Americans don't seem to give a damn. In Europe, cars are required to have automatic headlight cover/lens cleaners for that exact reason. It also doesn't help when people let their plastic lenses fuzz out/white out/UV degrade. They should fail inspection, but inspections in most areas are just a total joke.
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The aftermarket HIDs are quite poor by comparison and the 'bi- xenons' where the glass envelope moves is just terrible. Still they manage to work reasonably well which is almost amazing I think.
The A&R are bi-xenons and the bulb does move. And due to this, there is some jiggle, especially on low-beam when the bike is moving. But if it were not bi-xenon, I would not have bought it, because I want the same HID lighting on both high and low beams. I don't want halogen on one and HID lighting on the other (blech). I think in my Infiniti G37 projectors, something OTHER than the bulb moves when switching from low to high beam, but I am not completely sure on that. But there is ZERO jiggle.
I don't know if the bulb in the aftermarket is really moving though in normal riding- I think the greater visual impact is mostly due to the much greater light and sharper cut off line between light and dark.
Like I said before, I think both are factors.
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Projector bi-xenon lights are absolutely nothing like these 'fakey' bi- xenon H4 replacements that we are using in the C-14 (or any H4 vehicle just by changing the bulbs over to HIDs). The projectors are a class act... so nice that someone should put a set in a C-14 IMO (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10405.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=10405.0) ). I will update that thread in a few minutes.
Just as an aside, the way projector bixenons work is that there is a shield right at the focal line between the reflector bowl and the front lens; that is what creates the cut- off line in the light pattern. Actually all projectors have a shield, it is just that low beam only projectors have a fixed shield and the lamp is used exclusively for low beams with the high beams being an additional lamp assembly and bulb. In projector bixenons that shield actually moves vertically- actually it moves down to cast more light 'up' for high beam use (the lens makes everything work backwards). The HID 'kits' that replace two beam tungsten bulbs are actually pretty clever in that they move the lamp but they cannot produce the same quality of light pattern, cut off, or maintain light quality between low and high beam use the bixenon projectors have. By the way, the low beam of a bixenon projector remains absolutely the same when the high beams are used- it is like pulling back a curtain to allow more light to project onto new areas but the original beam is not changed in any way. That is one of the failings of the H4 kits- the low beam output is replaced by the high beam output.
What some folks do is to use a low beam H4 on one side and a bi-xenon H4 on the other side of the same motorcycle- that way you always have one light dedicated to low beam use and still have a high beam. It is easy to simulate that on your setup just by removing the solenoid connector (the small one with the two wires going through it) on whichever side you want only the low beam. I tried it and it does have its benefits- give it a try and you might like it better.
By the way, only high performance headlights are required to have lamp washers (as well as an automatic leveling system) on cars in Europe- there are plenty of dirty, misaligned lights in Europe too although I think on average they are in better physical condition than the average in the US. They also tend to aim the lights at the ground in consideration of oncoming traffic; I think they are often too high in the US but in Germany the top of the low beam is about 50 feet (ahem... about 15 meters) in front of the car.
Brian
The A&R are bi-xenons and the bulb does move. And due to this, there is some jiggle, especially on low-beam when the bike is moving. But if it were not bi-xenon, I would not have bought it, because I want the same HID lighting on both high and low beams. I don't want halogen on one and HID lighting on the other (blech). I think in my Infiniti G37 projectors, something OTHER than the bulb moves when switching from low to high beam, but I am not completely sure on that. But there is ZERO jiggle.
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That is weird, my Bi-Xenon high beams jiggle and my low beams are rock steady.
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If anyone has a copy of the installation instructions handy, could they PM them to me? I would like to get an idea of how much time I need to budget for this task.
I find it puzzling why they don't just have them posted on their website.
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If anyone has a copy of the installation instructions handy, could they PM them to me? I would like to get an idea of how much time I need to budget for this task.
I find it puzzling why they don't just have them posted on their website.
PM sent.
They are posted on their site.... http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html (http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html)
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PM sent.
They are posted on their site.... http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html (http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html)
Excellent, thanks! I looked back over this thread before posting the request, but didn't see the link (though I thought I had earlier).
Looks like a bit much to try and tackle before ZG and Gumby get here in the morning for our ride tomorrow. That's if the kit even arrives today. Maybe a task for Sunday?
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Looks like a bit much to try and tackle before ZG and Gumby get here in the morning for our ride tomorrow. That's if the kit even arrives today. Maybe a task for Sunday?
If you have to remove Canyons, and are not used to taking those and the fairings apart, it will take several hours. Of course, now that I know exactly how everything installs and works, I could probably repeat the whole process in two hours, but that would be Captain Hindsight!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Hindsight (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Captain_Hindsight)
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Excellent, thanks! I looked back over this thread before posting the request, but didn't see the link (though I thought I had earlier).
Looks like a bit much to try and tackle before ZG and Gumby get here in the morning for our ride tomorrow. That's if the kit even arrives today. Maybe a task for Sunday?
Weather is looking to be great for the Tygh Valley ride bro! :thumbs:
Get er done Rob, we'll see ya tomorrow, and we're bringing a 3rd black C14 with us as well... :) 8)
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Weather is looking to be great for the Tygh Valley ride bro! :thumbs:
Get er done Rob, we'll see ya tomorrow, and we're bringing a 3rd black C14 with us as well... :) 8)
Weather will be great (maybe a little chilly early). I probably should wait, so I don't have the bike all apart when you guys arrive. Maybe I'll just wash it or something... ::)
BTW, OregonLan is also excited to go, so that will be another C14 in the mix.
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Weather will be great (maybe a little chilly early). I probably should wait, so I don't have the bike all apart when you guys arrive. Maybe I'll just wash it or something... ::)
BTW, OregonLan is also excited to go, so that will be another C14 in the mix.
Cool, 5 C14's will be nice indeed! 8)
I hope OL's Connie isn't silver though, I don't want us to have to keep pulling over to wait... :o ;) ;D :stirpot:
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More photos.
These two show the scatter pattern very clearly. This is just a few feet from a garage door. It is like a crazy butterfly. The jagged edges you see are clearly visible in tunnels and on trees when riding. First low beam, then high beam.
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Now the main beams when 6 feet from a wall and 20 feet.
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It's good to hear lots of happy HID owners :), I asked the old mechanic at my local dealership , grey hair 39 years as a motorcycle mechanic, about HID units and he said all he has seen is junk from China, said he installed several HID units and would not recommend getting them till the quality gets better.
So It's good to hear of happy HID owners , but I'm going to wait a while on getting a set , I'm OK with the stock lights for now.
I have a headlight modulator hooked up , would it work with a HID system?
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I have a headlight modulator hooked up , would it work with a HID system?
No
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Anyone know how much the startup current requirements are for this particular kit? Also how long it draws the startup cuurent?
I already have a heavy guage wire running from my battery up to my aux lighter socket, which is also feeding my driving lights. I don't see a use case where it should be a problem if I use it for the HIDs too, but stiil, curious if someone knows.
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Anyone know how much the startup current requirements are for this particular kit? Also how long it draws the startup cuurent?
I already have a heavy guage wire running from my battery up to my aux lighter socket, which is also feeding my driving lights. I don't see a use case where it should be a problem if I use it for the HIDs too, but stiil, curious if someone knows.
That sounds like a question for A&R http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=15 (http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=15)
Or we could wait for Brian to chime in, he seems to know a lot about lighting. :)
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That sounds like a question for A&R http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=15 (http://www.aandrmotorsport.com/store/index.php?dispatch=pages.view&page_id=15)
Or we could wait for Brian to chime in, he seems to know a lot about lighting. :)
I don't think Brian has this particular kit. I was hoping someone has actually measured it.
The label on the ballast says "<7A", but there's a 30amp inline fuse. Two ballasts would be <14 amps, so maybe they're just doubling that for a SWAG at the fuse size.
Since they provide this nice wire that's meant to go direct to the battery, I guess I'll just snake it through. Just trying to save a step on the install.
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Since they provide this nice wire that's meant to go direct to the battery, I guess I'll just snake it through. Just trying to save a step on the install.
It is a nice wire/kit. And you don't have to remove the right fairings to install the kit, which is surprising (I removed the upper dash part, though) so it won't save much by just going to the battery.
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It is a nice wire/kit. And you don't have to remove the right fairings to install the kit, which is surprising (I removed the upper dash part, though) so it won't save much by just going to the battery.
Thanks! After I got in there, it took all of 15 seconds to snake that wire through, so definitely not worth the hassle to splice it into my existing wire.
In reality, you don't even need to pull the fairings. I'm almost done with the install, and didn't pull mine. Not sure about the 08/09 bikes though.
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Thanks! After I got in there, it took all of 15 seconds to snake that wire through, so definitely not worth the hassle to splice it into my existing wire.
In reality, you don't even need to pull the fairings. I'm almost done with the install, and didn't pull mine. Not sure about the 08/09 bikes though.
So you didn't have to remove the left ram air tube and the fairing? One of the reasons I've not installed mine yet...to lazy to pull all that apart.
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So you didn't have to remove the left ram air tube and the fairing?
I don't see how his post led you to that conclusion. Yes, you do have to remove the left ram air tube and fairing.
One of the reasons I've not installed mine yet...to lazy to pull all that apart.
It wasn't as difficult as I expected it to be. But that is one very strange looking air box.
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So you didn't have to remove the left ram air tube and the fairing? One of the reasons I've not installed mine yet...to lazy to pull all that apart.
Only if you follow their directions on where to mount the igniters. I'll be mounting mine somewhere else because I have no confidence in any stick on adhesive to hold long term when stuck to the bottom side of anything. The wires in the kit are plenty long, so it looks like I'll be mounting mine somewhere under the right side cover.
I pulled the plastic cover over the gas tank, the two black plastic covers (left side glove box, right side blank), and the cover under the headlight, just above the fender (only needed to change the city lights).
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I don't see how his post led you to that conclusion. Yes, you do have to remove the left ram air tube and fairing.
It wasn't as difficult as I expected it to be. But that is one very strange looking air box.
Well, this led me to that...
In reality, you don't even need to pull the fairings.
Which led me to believe you could install in the same place as the A&R instruction without removing fairing and tube. I see now that C1x is going to place the igniters on other places.
Mute point, since I'm going to have to pull it all apart anyway to replace the air filter. Maybe I'll do it this week!
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Well, this led me to that...Which led me to believe you could install in the same place as the A&R instruction without removing fairing and tube. I see now that C1x is going to place the igniters on other places.
Ooops, I like, TOTALLY missed that part. Sorry.
Yeah, it did seem odd to have to remove the air box, but I figured they knew best how to install it. Some of the cords are quite short and I decided to not second-guess their instructions.
However, I agree with C1x that the idea of mounting it from the top with just sticky doesn't instill long-term confidence about it staying there. Not sure about the mounting the other on the rubber firewall either. I guess time will tell.
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Ooops, I like, TOTALLY missed that part. Sorry.
Yeah, it did seem odd to have to remove the air box, but I figured they knew best how to install it. Some of the cords are quite short and I decided to not second-guess their instructions.
However, I agree with C1x that the idea of mounting it from the top with just sticky doesn't instill long-term confidence about it staying there. Not sure about the mounting the other on the rubber firewall either. I guess time will tell.
No problem. That 3m industrial Velcro glue is very strong, the 3m fasteners for my fast toll transponder are still stuck to the windshield on my truck going on 10 years, and that's some serious heat in the summer.
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Oh ya, this is night riding Nirvana! Now it's definitely better than riding in the day time.
The HIDs on low solved the issues I had with not being able to see when I switch from highs to lows. The 4300K bulbs are certainly a whiter light than stock, and seem to light everything up with better definition.
No problem. That 3m industrial Velcro glue is very strong, the 3m fasteners for my fast toll transponder are still stuck to the windshield on my truck going on 10 years, and that's some serious heat in the summer.
The velcro that comes in the kit is probably not 3M. I have a box of 3M velcro and it has 3M printed on the plastic that you peel off. The stuff in the kit is probably whatever they had in China when they assembled the kit.
I ended up mounting the igniters on top of the right side intake tube with zip ties. All the wiring reached easily, and everything is neatly zip tied away from the movement of the forks. I had the bike on the center stand with a floor jack lifting the front wheel off the ground so I could move it back and forth easily.
Definitely one of those things I should have done sooner. :)
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Damn you Rob...I just ordered the kit and can't wait...another farkle for the bike, however this one is all about safety. I was riding at night last week...rode 750 kms round trip for a beer and burger...anyways shut off my driving lights (Rigid Industries Dually 2's) as I was behind heavy traffic and was embarrassed by the yellow quality lights in my low beams. When I passed the traffic and turned my driving lights back on, it was day light once more.
I swore that I would not install HID for the hi/low bikes lights due to the complexitiy of it all...I hope this is as straight forward as all the others have stated.
Thx again
Dave
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Don't leave home with out them! First thing I do when bring a new bike home...install 4300K HID.....then the PIAA 1100x on the front wheel...love to ride at night in Florida too hot in daytime unless it is cooler......cagers can see you coming on high beam..and move over in passing lanes....a Harley has a single yellow bulb shaking with the vibration....not the C-14....
It makes night driving a very nice safer experience. Look at my pic posted herein.
Don't forget to modify the bulb shrouds and pick up an extra 30% more on the road lighting!
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Don't forget to modify the bulb shrouds and pick up an extra 30% more on the road lighting!
If you are serious about where this extra light ends up (On the road vs. up in the trees) I would like to hear/read more.
In your HIDs for sale post (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2476.msg28325#msg28325) the extra light appeared to all be going very high.
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Damn you Rob...I just ordered the kit and can't wait...another farkle for the bike, however this one is all about safety. I was riding at night last week...rode 750 kms round trip for a beer and burger...anyways shut off my driving lights (Rigid Industries Dually 2's) as I was behind heavy traffic and was embarrassed by the yellow quality lights in my low beams. When I passed the traffic and turned my driving lights back on, it was day light once more.
I swore that I would not install HID for the hi/low bikes lights due to the complexitiy of it all...I hope this is as straight forward as all the others have stated.
Thx again
Dave
Yep, just had to get that monkey off my back, and onto someone elses. ;D I guess that's the forum version of 'pay it forward'. ;)
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Okay, interesting thing happened tonight. Stopped by a friends house to show off the new headlights, and when I was ready to leave, the left headlight didn't come on. I shut the bike off and restarted it and then both lights came on and worked fine.
I think this same thing happened to ZG's bike earlier this year when we road up to the WA COG wrench session. We pulled out of a gas station and one of his headlights was out. He never shut the bike off, and we kept riding, but later that day it was working fine.
So, it appears the igniters used to fire the bulbs for the ballasts may not have a 100% success rate. Anyone have any information on this subject? I'm new to HID lighting, so all I can do is speculate.
I'm guessing if a bulb doesn't lignt off, it won't hurt the ballast if you ride it, but don't know that for certain. Anyone know if this is true? I would hate to have to worry about something like this everytime I start the bike. I guess I'll have to do some research on the topic.
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I had a problem with the bulbs not switching between high and low when I first installed mine. Called A&R and they sent me new bulbs, no problem since.
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I gave it a try way back when and it was awful. Cutting the shrouds won't put one extra lumen of light where you can use it (on the road or to the side of the road) but surprisingly enough, it does go directly into any oncoming driver's eyes.
This is the modified shield:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/HIDshrouds.jpg)
This is the pattern with the shield intact (low beam):
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Originalbeampattern.jpg)
With the shield cut, notice where ALL the extra light goes:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/Newbeampattern.jpg)
This photo was taken from just above the cut- off line, at least for the headlight on the right :-( Notice the glare from the headlight on the left, which is the one with the cut shield:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/HIDglare.jpg)
In my opinion, not only is cutting the shield not a good idea, it is irresponsible and does nothing but blind / annoy any others who happen to be unfortunate enough to share the road with such a vehicle.
Fortunately, unlike circumcision, this mod. is reversible. I cut a piece of aluminum flashing, bent it to wrap around the shield and cover the area that had been modified- it worked like a charm:
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/HIDshrouds.jpg)
(http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f82/BDF08012008/HIDshroudfixed.jpg)
Brian
If you are serious about where this extra light ends up (On the road vs. up in the trees) I would like to hear/read more.
In your HIDs for sale post (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=2476.msg28325#msg28325) the extra light appeared to all be going very high.
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An HID not coming on (one that still works anyway) is usually the result of low system voltage. A problem is that C-14's ignite the headlights exactly when the bike is cranking and so the system voltage is low at that very moment when the lights need a surge of current to ignite. It isn't generally a problem but does seem to show up when the bike's battery is weak.
Some people have put a delay in the headlight circuit so that they do not even try to start (the lights) until sometime after the bike has started. That should work nicely because not only will the battery's voltage not be pulled down from actually starting the bike but once the bike is running, the alternator will actually raise the system voltage.
If it becomes a common enough problem, you might want to consider the delay relay. I could steer you toward how / where to install it if it comes to that.
BTW: mine have never done that that I know of and I usually check to see that both headlights are actually on by looking for the 'tell tales' on the ground that the headlights cast.
Brian
Okay, interesting thing happened tonight. Stopped by a friends house to show off the new headlights, and when I was ready to leave, the left headlight didn't come on. I shut the bike off and restarted it and then both lights came on and worked fine.
I think this same thing happened to ZG's bike earlier this year when we road up to the WA COG wrench session. We pulled out of a gas station and one of his headlights was out. He never shut the bike off, and we kept riding, but later that day it was working fine.
So, it appears the igniters used to fire the bulbs for the ballasts may not have a 100% success rate. Anyone have any information on this subject? I'm new to HID lighting, so all I can do is speculate.
I'm guessing if a bulb doesn't lignt off, it won't hurt the ballast if you ride it, but don't know that for certain. Anyone know if this is true? I would hate to have to worry about something like this everytime I start the bike. I guess I'll have to do some research on the topic.
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The Modified shields posted herein are done improperly....they don't allow the light to be directed properly, they have been opened up too much!
They need to have the open face retained to a larger degree...too much metal has been removed so it has a blast effect on the road and the beams will not focus properly and blind on coming drivers.
I posted mine and how I did them a couple of years ago, maybe someone can research the posting and see how to do it so it will be useful and not harmful to on coming traffic.
Have to be careful not to go overboard on opening up the shrouds.....they are H-4 bulbs so you have the hi and lo beams built into the same bulb....not like on a ZX14 where you have 4 lights up front....only 2 with the C-14.
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An HID not coming on (one that still works anyway) is usually the result of low system voltage. A problem is that C-14's ignite the headlights exactly when the bike is cranking and so the system voltage is low at that very moment when the lights need a surge of current to ignite. It isn't generally a problem but does seem to show up when the bike's battery is weak.
Some people have put a delay in the headlight circuit so that they do not even try to start (the lights) until sometime after the bike has started. That should work nicely because not only will the battery's voltage not be pulled down from actually starting the bike but once the bike is running, the alternator will actually raise the system voltage.
If it becomes a common enough problem, you might want to consider the delay relay. I could steer you toward how / where to install it if it comes to that.
BTW: mine have never done that that I know of and I usually check to see that both headlights are actually on by looking for the 'tell tales' on the ground that the headlights cast.
Brian
That makes sense, thanks. Funny that in both of the observed failure cases, it was right after a long ride (more than 30 minutes), and a short stop (5 to 15 minutes). Seems like battery voltage should have been high then. Also, with the engine all warmed up, cranking it over was at a minimum. Plus, my battery was new at the beginning of this year, so it's in great shape.
So am I correct that if the bulb doesn't light, there's no load on the ballast, and therefore no risk of damaging a ballast? Not sure what's going on inside the ballast, from current flow perspective.
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Ok just took these pics with my cell phone to post here so you can see what has been working well in several C-14's I have modified the HID for better down the road results and does not blind on coming traffic.
Be careful when using the Dremel disk not to cut too much metal, this is a case where more is not better!
This will give you two distinctive beams...and not blind on-coming traffic..as always focus and align both lights with the high beam centers on a bright white piece of styroform and draw a black line level across so you can see that both are exactly the same height for best on the road viewing and performance.
Harley riders...eat your heart out!
Hope this helps a bit...
NW
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Here is one more picture to share.....
As you can see you command a large part of the road, so if there is a dog or a deer on the side of the road you have a little time to slow down to avoid hitting it and it gives you more confidence driving at night...
All we are trying to do here is tweak the safety capabilities and make our riding experience more enjoyable...
The 4300K actually enhances road imperfections to allow you to see the highs and lows in the pavement so you can enjoy a smoother ride....or maybe see a nail, or something you can avoid hitting.
NW
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In all those photos there is a LOT of light being thrown well above the cut off line that would blind oncoming traffic. Cutting the bottom of the shield allows light to leave the burner, hit the bottom of the reflector and then reflect up and out, which is precisely where the low beam light should not go.
The way to convince us that the low beam remains intact when you modify the shields is by taking before / after photos of the low beam only projected against some flat surface such as a garage door or wall, a house wall, etc. Movie theaters also work very well to show the shape of a low beam.
Blasting out lots of light is a fine thing but unless it is controlled and kept below a certain height (speaking of low beams here) it is blinding to oncoming traffic and dangerous for everyone in the area, even the biker who blinds the traffic coming at him / her.
Brian
Here is one more picture to share.....
As you can see you command a large part of the road, so if there is a dog or a deer on the side of the road you have a little time to slow down to avoid hitting it and it gives you more confidence driving at night...
All we are trying to do here is tweak the safety capabilities and make our riding experience more enjoyable...
The 4300K actually enhances road imperfections to allow you to see the highs and lows in the pavement so you can enjoy a smoother ride....or maybe see a nail, or something you can avoid hitting.
NW
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Okay, interesting thing happened tonight. Stopped by a friends house to show off the new headlights, and when I was ready to leave, the left headlight didn't come on. I shut the bike off and restarted it and then both lights came on and worked fine.
I think this same thing happened to ZG's bike earlier this year when we road up to the WA COG wrench session. We pulled out of a gas station and one of his headlights was out. He never shut the bike off, and we kept riding, but later that day it was working fine.
So, it appears the igniters used to fire the bulbs for the ballasts may not have a 100% success rate. Anyone have any information on this subject? I'm new to HID lighting, so all I can do is speculate.
I'm guessing if a bulb doesn't lignt off, it won't hurt the ballast if you ride it, but don't know that for certain. Anyone know if this is true? I would hate to have to worry about something like this everytime I start the bike. I guess I'll have to do some research on the topic.
Yep, I remember that Rob. The odd thing is it hasn't done that since then, I kept checking it for about a month or so and never did it again... Odd indeed but seems to have been a one time thing... ??? :-\
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Ah, that is what is called a 'hot re-strike' and that can be a problem too. Short technical explanation follows:
As an HID lamp is truly an arc lamp, there must be a high enough voltage to initiate the arc. Once started, about 85 volts will maintain it but it requires upwards of 20,000 volts to start or strike the original arc. The small glass envelope that contains the arc has metal salts inside it (they look like brown sand when the bulb is cold) and once heated, they turn to gas and produce the huge amounts of light that HIDs put out and also cause the arc to the be color that it is. However, when those salts are hot and gasified, the electrical resistance inside the envelope goes up, making it harder to strike the arc in the first place. So shutting HIDs off and then restarting them while they are still hot (the 'hot re-strike') is the situation that takes the most voltage from the ballast. That is where some of the Chinese ballasts may fall down occasionally- not so much the ballast itself but the actual igniter (which is the part that provides the extremely high strike voltage). If that happens, all the while the light is off it is cooling down so the next restrike occurs at a lower (bulb) temperature when it will probably work. Hence the seemingly erratic behavior. You can help it along by making sure all the electrical connections are tight and not bound too tightly to any grounded surface (the arc will just as happily jump out of the cable through the insulation as across the HID's internal electrodes).
If it continues to be a problem, I would suggest contacting the store where you got them and as about getting a new ballast and igniter or even everything on that side of the bike in the event it is a bulb with unusual hot resistance causing the problem. If it is only very occasional, I would just ignore it and re-start the bike and the lights when it does happen.
By the way, speaking of the high starting voltage: be careful with handling HIDs and powering them up. They are not particularly dangerous IMO but unlike the original 12 volt wiring on the bike, you cannot be entirely cavalier with the wires, connections, and especially any open connections because that starting voltage is perfectly happy jumping out of the connector and into your hand(s) if there is not a complete connection.
As to your question of anything bad happening to the ballast if the HID fails to strike- nope, they are designed with that in mind so it is not a problem. Also, it is inevitable that vehicle lighting will be damaged and so it is expected that a ballast will try to ignite a lamp that is no longer there or not connected (front end damage from a vehicle accident is the most likely cause) so there are a set number of times that ballast will try to ignite the lamp and then shut itself down until the ballast itself is powered down and back up. This all happens in less than one second so there is no danger of the ballast overheating or similar. This is a case where the 'good' OEM ballasts are inferior in a way to the aftermarket things- after a certain number of tries (five I think), Hellas are designed to open an internal fuse and shut down permanently. Once that happens, the ballast will never power up again- it is a safety feature to deal with auto damage. Unfortunately the only way to fix it is by buying a new ballast and Hella ballasts are not $25 / pair :-(
Brian
That makes sense, thanks. Funny that in both of the observed failure cases, it was right after a long ride (more than 30 minutes), and a short stop (5 to 15 minutes). Seems like battery voltage should have been high then. Also, with the engine all warmed up, cranking it over was at a minimum. Plus, my battery was new at the beginning of this year, so it's in great shape.
So am I correct that if the bulb doesn't light, there's no load on the ballast, and therefore no risk of damaging a ballast? Not sure what's going on inside the ballast, from current flow perspective.
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(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/emoticons/TMI.jpg)
;D
That was a lot to read, but very enlightening. Get it enlightening :rotflmao:
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(http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=6120.0;attach=12874;image)
Well Ninja'1400, looking at the mail boxes on the left (and the trees, houses, cars), I don't see how you can say it doesn't near blind
drivers coming at you (or those in front of you trying to get away as well).
The pictures you show of the shields look just as opened up as Brian's if not more so.
I guess either we'll just not agree on this :( , or I'm not understanding you.
Are your road pictures of the low beam or high beam?
Do you have a road picture of your modified HID low beam only without any aux. lights?
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This pic is with the under mirror PIAA Country Wide HID 35 watt lights lit up.....so they are higher and provide more sideline light...only use them on the back country roads where no on coming traffic is present....just gives me a higher degree of confidence to ride higher speeds at night and not be as concerned about animals on the side of the road or people backing out of country driveways.....
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This pic is with the under mirror PIAA Country Wide HID 35 watt lights lit up.....so they are higher and provide more sideline light...only use them on the back country roads where no on coming traffic is present....just gives me a higher degree of confidence to ride higher speeds at night and not be as concerned about animals on the side of the road or people backing out of country driveways.....
Like Brian said, we would have to see patterns on a garage door to know anything useful, AND a picture like you had, but on low beam and without any other lights on (like you would be riding with other traffic around).
So far it doesn't seem like any modification to the shroud is going to be a good idea based on what I have seen so far.
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Get it enlightening :rotflmao:
(http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/facepalm.gif) (http://i1200.photobucket.com/albums/bb336/jaywilcox/dejkriowe_zpsc86d5b3b.gif)
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I was in front of a high jacket up pickup truck HID lights, fog lights dam near made my eyes water, SHOULD be ILLEGAL
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Yep, I remember that Rob. The odd thing is it hasn't done that since then, I kept checking it for about a month or so and never did it again... Odd indeed but seems to have been a one time thing... ??? :-\
Hmm, maybe it's a 'break in' thing... As I recall, you didn't have many miles on them at that point.
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Hmm, maybe it's a 'break in' thing... As I recall, you didn't have many miles on them at that point.
True, I think that might have been right after I got em, which is what pissed me off for that brief moment.
All good ever since then though, I am very happy with em and recommend them to all! :thumbs: :thumbs:
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Ah, that is what is called a 'hot re-strike' and that can be a problem too. Short technical explanation follows:
As an HID lamp is truly an arc lamp, there must be a high enough voltage to initiate the arc. Once started, about 85 volts will maintain it but it requires upwards of 20,000 volts to start or strike the original arc. The small glass envelope that contains the arc has metal salts inside it (they look like brown sand when the bulb is cold) and once heated, they turn to gas and produce the huge amounts of light that HIDs put out and also cause the arc to the be color that it is. However, when those salts are hot and gasified, the electrical resistance inside the envelope goes up, making it harder to strike the arc in the first place. So shutting HIDs off and then restarting them while they are still hot (the 'hot re-strike') is the situation that takes the most voltage from the ballast. That is where some of the Chinese ballasts may fall down occasionally- not so much the ballast itself but the actual igniter (which is the part that provides the extremely high strike voltage). If that happens, all the while the light is off it is cooling down so the next restrike occurs at a lower (bulb) temperature when it will probably work. Hence the seemingly erratic behavior. You can help it along by making sure all the electrical connections are tight and not bound too tightly to any grounded surface (the arc will just as happily jump out of the cable through the insulation as across the HID's internal electrodes).
If it continues to be a problem, I would suggest contacting the store where you got them and as about getting a new ballast and igniter or even everything on that side of the bike in the event it is a bulb with unusual hot resistance causing the problem. If it is only very occasional, I would just ignore it and re-start the bike and the lights when it does happen.
By the way, speaking of the high starting voltage: be careful with handling HIDs and powering them up. They are not particularly dangerous IMO but unlike the original 12 volt wiring on the bike, you cannot be entirely cavalier with the wires, connections, and especially any open connections because that starting voltage is perfectly happy jumping out of the connector and into your hand(s) if there is not a complete connection.
As to your question of anything bad happening to the ballast if the HID fails to strike- nope, they are designed with that in mind so it is not a problem. Also, it is inevitable that vehicle lighting will be damaged and so it is expected that a ballast will try to ignite a lamp that is no longer there or not connected (front end damage from a vehicle accident is the most likely cause) so there are a set number of times that ballast will try to ignite the lamp and then shut itself down until the ballast itself is powered down and back up. This all happens in less than one second so there is no danger of the ballast overheating or similar. This is a case where the 'good' OEM ballasts are inferior in a way to the aftermarket things- after a certain number of tries (five I think), Hellas are designed to open an internal fuse and shut down permanently. Once that happens, the ballast will never power up again- it is a safety feature to deal with auto damage. Unfortunately the only way to fix it is by buying a new ballast and Hella ballasts are not $25 / pair :-(
Brian
Thanks Brian. Good info.
As for the start up and restart of the C14, I watched this morning when I started the bike, and the lights don't ignite until releasing the starter button. Thinking back to the halogens, this was also the case.
I also remembered bumping the starter button against my tank bag a few times (long before installing the HID lights) while the bike was running, and it turned off the headlights while the starter button was pressed (doesn't activate the starter though, thank goodness). If one light doesn't fire, that should do the trick to "restart" it.
Do you know if HID lights are subject to the same or similar restrictions of on / off / on time as other gas based bulbs? Just thinking ahead, if one light doesn't fire and the other does, will it shorten the bulb life of the one that's on by just restarting them both? I know sodium based bulbs need 5 to 10 minutes to cool down before turning them back on.
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True, I think that might have been right after I got em, which is what pissed me off for that brief moment.
All good ever since then though, I am very happy with em and recommend them to all! :thumbs: :thumbs:
Hopefully it's just a one time thing for me too. :)
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Hmmmm... You know, I just thought of something, not sure if it could have been the issue or not but I'll throw it out there...
When mine did do that the one time Rob it was when we stopped for gas, at that time I hadn't moved my radar to an unswitched power and therefore everytime I turned the bike off it would flash the H.A.R.D LED light for my radar detector in my eye unless I powered it down, so back then I would often just hit the kill switch on the bike but not turn the bike off, then I'd flip the kill switch back and start the bike back up, that way I didn't have to take the one second to turn off then back on my H.A.R.D LED light...
Could that have been anything to do with it?? :-\
I no longer have my radar setup that way and now always fully shut the bike off to gas up, so maybe that's why it hasn't done it again?? ???
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Hmmmm... You know, I just thought of something, not sure if it could have been the issue or not but I'll throw it out there...
When mine did do that the one time Rob it was when we stopped for gas, at that time I hadn't moved my radar to an unswitched power and therefore everytime I turned the bike off it would flash the H.A.R.D LED light for my radar detector in my eye unless I powered it down, so back then I would often just hit the kill switch on the bike but not turn the bike off, then I'd flip the kill switch back and start the bike back up, that way I didn't have to take the one second to turn off then back on my H.A.R.D LED light...
Could that have been anything to do with it?? :-\
I no longer have my radar setup that way and now always fully shut the bike off to gas up, so maybe that's why it hasn't done it again?? ???
Doesn't seem like it should matter, but I'm certainly no expert - yet.
Funny story : Riding home last night, a guy coming towards me in a lifted Toyota 4x4 with a push bar on the front and big driving lights mounted to it decided my low beams were too bright. Now I've been carefully watching every car I go by to see how much light I'm spraying them with, and they don't get "sprayed" until just as they are passing me. Also, no one has flashed me yet, and there have been plenty of opportunities.
Anyway, this guy in the Toy flips on his brights and his driving lights, and leaves them on. So, I switched to brights, which also turns on the four 3100 lumen driving lights, and waited. I could see the entire inside of his cab was lit up, including his head. He was turning his head slightly away while still trying to look forward, but finally after a few more seconds, gave up and turned off his brights and driving lights. I waited another second, then turned mine off. After we passed, I had to proclaim "I win!" 8)
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Hey all in the convo. Thought I'd ake a moment to pass on my experience with my A&Rs.
- Originally I had an issue with the single light only coming on. This was finally cured after a ballast replacement, additional trigger relay to start the balasts at key on, AND (what I think really does it) waiting 10 seconds AFTER key on to hit the start button. This gives the arc time to fully ignite and there is no electrical competion for power to the ballasts. So far, since January, no issues since "discovering" the start up method. A&R folks are really willing to help out. Which brings me to...
- Second issue was that one bulb backed out of the housing on a ride and proceded to melt the bulb housing plastic. That caused some nice smoke trails and other interesting smells during the ride and eventually that evening I had to disconect the bulb and tuck it away for the remainder of my 2 day ride home. Once there a quick phone call and an e-mail and A&R had a new one in the mail and in my hands in 2 days. Back in place and just as good as ever. Granted my reflector is a little smokey inside, but I can live with that untill I follow BDF in poping them open.
Lightwise, these things are awesome. Along with my LED lights at the forks and under the mirrors, I have no qualms with night riding. They just work well and give me the confidence to be out at night and see the things out there that might be bad for me. And the plus factor is they help cagers see me. Not as much as the LEDs ;), but still assist in the overall conspicuity issue. I'm seen quite well.
Mike
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Like Brian said, we would have to see patterns on a garage door to know anything useful, AND a picture like you had, but on low beam and without any other lights on (like you would be riding with other traffic around).
So far it doesn't seem like any modification to the shroud is going to be a good idea based on what I have seen so far.
Why do I have this déjà vu feeling??? :o
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couple questions from me here.
first, low beam only, cornering at night, my guess is the pattern is close to stock being narrow and quite vertical ??
second, flash to pass, does this still work well ?? any issues with it ??
third, what kind of life, longevity are people seeing from this setup?? had some + bulbs that didn't last long and after a few sets of them I'm back to me oe stockers i took out. most of my riding is day, very little at night. reliability is important to me.
thanks much for the time
(first point is key for me to fix, its like all the light goes away)
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couple questions from me here. first, low beam only, cornering at night, my guess is the pattern is close to stock being narrow and quite vertical ??
Yep. The reflectors dictate most of the pattern, and that will not change.
second, flash to pass, does this still work well ?? any issues with it ??
That works exactly the same, probably even better because it is absolutely INSTANT- there is no waiting for a different filament to heat up. You touch the button and the solenoids move the bulbs to high-beam nearly instantaneously.
third, what kind of life, longevity
Can't address that, since these are new. But they are SUPPOSED to be much more reliable and long-lasting than halogen. There are more parts to fail, however. Instead of just bulbs, done; you have bulbs, solenoids, igniters, ballasts, and relay.
(first point is key for me to fix, its like all the light goes away)
Interestingly, there is ZERO change to the lamp holders. So, theoretically, if one of your lights stops working, you can carry a spare halogen and just pop it right in there- total time about 1 or 2 min. Of course, you would still need to troubleshoot/repair the HID, but you would have both lights again until you have time to deal with it and/or get the replacement parts.
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That works exactly the same, probably even better because it is absolutely INSTANT- there is no waiting for a different filament to heat up. You touch the button and the solenoids move the bulbs to high-beam nearly instantaneously.
The flash to pass with stock bulb lights both the low beam and the high beam filaments at the same time; on the HIDs, since there is only one arc, it goes to high beam position while the flash button is depressed. As max' says it's very fast, and quite effective if you're quick of thumb.
Yep. The reflectors dictate most of the pattern, and that will not change.
Not to worry, as soon as Brian finishes up the projector lights to his satisfaction, I'm sure he is going to tackle this
problem BMW style, and come up with a gimbal mounted light/mirror attached to a gyro servo that we'll all be able to
mod.....or maybe I'm just hoping out loud? ;D
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Yeah but I warned you right up front- "Short technical explanation follows:" so you should have stopped reading before you hurt yourself.... From now on I will give a much shorter, easier to understand explanation (Trog say it be magic), along with a much longer warning.
:-)
Brian
(http://i286.photobucket.com/albums/ll112/tomdvaughan/emoticons/TMI.jpg)
;D
That was a lot to read, but very enlightening. Get it enlightening :rotflmao:
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Yeah, if the starter button does not engage the starter when the engine is running (I believe you, I just never tried it :-) ) then it should work OK for re-starting HIDs. As far as 'hot starting' goes....
WARNING POISON DANGER CAUTION HAZARD
Technical discussion follows! Rules of physics may be employed! Rules of nature always employed!
There, that ought to scare 'em (you know who you are) away.
Auto HIDs are the only HIDs that I know of that have a hot re-strike capability. The others in use for area lighting simply cannot build the voltage necessary to re-start the arc when the arc tube is hot.... which is why we see mercury vapor, metal halide, sodium types all do what they do- they turn off but the arc tube continues to glow for a while until it cools down sufficiently and the ballast then attempts a re- strike. Auto HIDs must re-strike when hot for the obvious reason; they are also required to come to some minimum amount of light output in a specific amount of time whether hot or cold (75% light output w/in two seconds comes to mind but I really do not remember).
As the arc tube ages, the color temperature of the light output shifts (toward the blue), the light output goes down, and the voltage required to maintain the arc goes up. The increasing voltage requirement is usually what shows end- of- life for the lamp: they will cold start and seem to work for a while but the required running voltage (dozens to hundreds of volts, not thousands) gets high enough that the ballast cannot supply it and so shuts down. At that point the lamp goes into a cool down and restart mode which is why we see things like street lights go on, run for a bit, go <mostly> off and wind down to fully off and then relight. If these bulbs must maintain light output the usual way to do it is to use two arc tubes and ballasts w/in one light package so when one quits the other one strikes and produces light. That would not work for automotive lighting for two reasons, the first obvious one is the warm- up time (going down the highway WHEN SUDDENLY an arc tube goes dark and the second one strikes and builds up light output. The second reason is because headlights are focused and the second arc tube could not be in the right place. There is a method to deal with that too in that a mechanism to rotate the new arc tube into position and then ignite it when the first one goes out but that just would not do for automotive lighting.
There is also a disadvantage in hot restriking an arc lamp in that it shortens the lamp's life. When the arc contacts are hot and the ballast blasts a lot of current across them it tends to vaporize a bit of the arc contacts. So a hot restart is hard on the arc tube contacts also. Some folks seem to be quite concerned about it and won't re-light an HID on a vehicle until some amount of time passes by. I figure those are the folks who measure the oil in the crankcases with an eye dropper but it probably is a good idea :-) I just use my headlights when I need them and I figure I'll replace them when (if) they wear out.
Brian
Thanks Brian. Good info.
As for the start up and restart of the C14, I watched this morning when I started the bike, and the lights don't ignite until releasing the starter button. Thinking back to the halogens, this was also the case.
I also remembered bumping the starter button against my tank bag a few times (long before installing the HID lights) while the bike was running, and it turned off the headlights while the starter button was pressed (doesn't activate the starter though, thank goodness). If one light doesn't fire, that should do the trick to "restart" it.
Do you know if HID lights are subject to the same or similar restrictions of on / off / on time as other gas based bulbs? Just thinking ahead, if one light doesn't fire and the other does, will it shorten the bulb life of the one that's on by just restarting them both? I know sodium based bulbs need 5 to 10 minutes to cool down before turning them back on.
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Finally got the 6000K HID kit installed yesterday. You can really see the cut off in before and after pics. I think I'm done with adding light now....
(https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-cr-UxnLFcBQ/UHQ4u6v2khI/AAAAAAAAA0w/MVcALpiAIjA/s400/P1000713.JPG)
(https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--0b87I_-qcA/UHheELxADmI/AAAAAAAAA1E/oxrBSagorrI/s400/P1000719.JPG)
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Finally got the 6000K HID kit installed yesterday. You can really see the cut off in before and after pics. I think I'm done with adding light now....
You are not seeing the "cutoff" in the before/after pictures. What you are seeing is what I posted earlier- on low beams AND high beams, the HID's throw no light downward, so the bottom halves of the reflectors are never used anymore. Using halogens, the lower halves are used with high beams.
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You are not seeing the "cutoff" in the before/after pictures. What you are seeing is what I posted earlier- on low beams AND high beams, the HID's throw no light downward, so the bottom halves of the reflectors are never used anymore. Using halogens, the lower halves are used with high beams.
Ah, ok. That makes sense.
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Any current users have any problems with moisture and the ballasts? Inoticed the back ballast cover is not quite sealed, I can actually push it together for a better seal. Thinking of maybe some silicone along the edges possibly. Definitely want it sealed up. I live in arizona so moisture not much of a problem but don't want any problems if I ever do hit rain. Thanks for any input
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Any current users have any problems with moisture and the ballasts? Inoticed the back ballast cover is not quite sealed, I can actually push it together for a better seal. Thinking of maybe some silicone along the edges possibly. Definitely want it sealed up. I live in arizona so moisture not much of a problem but don't want any problems if I ever do hit rain. Thanks for any input
Mine are sealed tight. Could be a defect. I'd contact A&R to see about getting a replacement.
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I can slip a couple of sheets of paper into the crack on one of them although it does not go all the way thru . Hoping there is an oring/gasket of some sort. The other one just one sheet. Would hate to get stranded somewhere with no lights though. I'll give them a shout. Thanks
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I can slip a couple of sheets of paper into the crack on one of them although it does not go all the way thru . Hoping there is an oring/gasket of some sort. The other one just one sheet. Would hate to get stranded somewhere with no lights though. I'll give them a shout. Thanks
;)
I have complete confidence in my A&R kit but I still carry my stock bulbs should something happen to my HIDs.
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They replied quickly to my question. They said the internals are coated with a waterproofing and there should not be any problems with them and moisture . I'll probably carry a spare set of stockers on my longer trips but was nice to get the fast response from them
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Ok did the A&R HID install...did not remove the side fairings, removed the side dash panels, was far easier and quicker than expected. A lot of nit pickin over these lights. I agree that quality could be an issue, especially long term...time will tell. They look amazing, will test them tomorrow a.m. on my work commute. Not concerned with the light pattern per se as my Rigid Industries Dually 2s out perform them, but at least now I have consistent blazing bright white lights.
D
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Used the lights in my a.m. commute...they work great. Much wider beam pattern than stock. For my needs they work as advertised. My dually 2s still outperform them, but me likey!
Dave
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Digging up an old thread here....
Comments on the A&R HID's. Are you still using them now? Any thing you would suggest or change?
I am unsure if I want to go with LED's or HID's
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Digging up an old thread here....
Comments on the A&R HID's. Are you still using them now? Any thing you would suggest or change?
I am unsure if I want to go with LED's or HID's
Yes, I am still using them. No, I would not recommend HID conversions without also converting to projector lenses. The light pattern after an HID swap is poor, and although there is more light, it is not much more USABLE light, and there is a lot more scatter to annoy other people. If I had to do it over, I probably would not do it. But at this point, I am not going to rip them out. Has been 3 years and have not had any reliability issues with them. A&R has been good quality, just generic design.
LED conversions without projectors will be NO BETTER THAN HID (and are often unacceptably WORSE because many of THOSE kits don't even have pattern cutoffs at all). The issue is that the stock reflectors are just not designed for increased light output nor even slight variations of light source position.
I think projectors might be in my future one day. Maybe.
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Comments on the A&R HID's. Are you still using them now? Any thing you would suggest or change?
No, I would not recommend HID conversions without also converting to projector lenses. The light pattern after an HID swap is poor, and although there is more light, it is not much more USABLE light, and there is a lot more scatter to annoy other people.
I do believe that A & R no longer offers the custom C14 kit, but personally I think that that is a good thing. I had more trouble installing that kit even following their directions. It's a rough area to work in from either above or below. It's dark in there and as soon as you put your arm down or up in there your view is blocked. My biggest problem was keeping the various wires from rubbing as you turn the front wheel. I think it would be much better had I purchased two separate one bulb generic systems and not have the wires cross in front of the forks but rather have one separate system on each side. One of these days I'm going to go back in there and fix that all up, right after I tidy up my Rostra install so it looks (almost) as good as sailor_chic's does.
Someday. Maybe.
I do not share maxtog's opinion about the light output or the pattern. I think you'll find that most here think the pattern is very good and the light output increased considerably with HIDs in either the 4300k or the 6000k bulbs as long as they are equipped with the light shroud that I believe all A & R kits have.
The only other recommendation I have is to make sure the bulbs lock in place well in the housing. There were some problems with earlier kits (mine included) that had exceptionally small locking tabs and the bulb backed out while riding and started to burn the rubber boot. I put a dab of hi-temp silicone on mine and put it back in and have had no problems since.
I do agree with max' about LEDs, at least the ones I've seen so far.
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I think a lot of us are using HID lighting on the C-14. Overall, my results have been very good.
I have not seen the beam pattern of any LED headlight retrofit lamps into any H-4 headlight but I have seen the lights themselves and I cannot believe they would produce any type of usable beam; the LED's are on the sides of the 'stick' and will project light in all directions. The key to vehicle forward lighting is always about controlling where the light goes, basically by having a cut- off line that blocks the light from shining above that line. This is what keeps from blinding oncoming traffic and again, I cannot see how the light produced by the LED headlight retrofit lamps could possibly create a cut- off beam or in any useful way control the light output.
The goal is better, brighter and more forward lighting but most or all of it pointing below level, not above or straight forward.
Brian
Digging up an old thread here....
Comments on the A&R HID's. Are you still using them now? Any thing you would suggest or change?
I am unsure if I want to go with LED's or HID's
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I do believe that A & R no longer offers the custom C14 kit, but personally I think that that is a good thing. I had more trouble installing that kit even following their directions. It's a rough area to work in from either above or below. It's dark in there and as soon as you put your arm down or up in there your view is blocked. My biggest problem was keeping the various wires from rubbing as you turn the front wheel.
Has been a while since I installed it, but I didn't think it was too bad. A bit tricky, for sure, however.
I do not share maxtog's opinion about the light output or the pattern. [...] I think you'll find that most here think the pattern is very good and the light output increased considerably
Oh, I didn't say there wasn't a lot more light OUTPUT, just that it produces a lot of glare and the pattern isn't impressive. Not enough light in the center where it is needed most, and too much around it (the contrast makes it more difficult). And yet the scatter lights up even overhead signs (on low beam). Nope, nothing wrong with the install or the bulbs, they are working as intended. I have noted other similar posts from this and other forums about scatter.
The G37- now those have a fantastic pattern. Been continuously "Wowed" by them every time I use them, from the moment I got the car 6.5 years ago. Something I would love to have on the bike. Which is why I was fascinated by Brian's thread on using Infiniti projectors on the C14. Way more work than I would be willing to undertake, though.
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Got the kit in yesterday and installed it today.
And this weekend the high/low beam failed on the right headlight. I thought something was not right, and confirmed it at a rest location with the headlights shining on a business window.
The patterns are so mediocre on most of these HID kits, including this one, that I couldn't really even tell if it is stuck on high or stuck on low beam (seems to be high). It didn't help that it was PLASTERED with insects from the trip. I have had no time to look into it, and probably won't until next weekend. Might be a stuck solenoid, burned out solenoid, or wiring issue. :(
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I bought 2 HID kits from DDMTuning.com a long time ago. I have had 3 failures, all on the right side. The first was NOT a ballast, it was some other component. I bought another kit and randomly replaced a part (there are 3 or 4?) and got lucky, I replaced the right part.
The 2nd 2 failures were ballasts. You can buy 2 ballasts for $25 shipped on Amazon. It's a pain but my lights are amazing. I do get people flashing their brights at me some time, oh well. That just means they see me. I'd rather **** them off than die.
My high beams are useless unless leaned over in a corner or going down a steep hill than goes right back up. I can live with it, the low beams are like freakin daylight. I also put on dual PIAA horns that sound like a 1975 Cadillac, they are LOUD and if I'm using my horn, I want it loud.
The stock headlights are only OK, LED is not ready for prime time. HID is complex and can be troublesome but now I know what to do if one fails. It used to scare me, I wasn't sure of how it worked, so if it broke, I wasn't sure if I could fix it. I've seen it enough and it's just a process of elimination anyway. If you get them and something fails, I'd start with the ballast, based on 2 of my 3 failures being ballasts. I've also done a fair amount of googling and the ballasts are cheap Chinese garbage and I couldn't seem to find more expensive ones that were better, so I bought the pair for $25, fixed my most recent problem and can swap in another if needed in about 30 minutes.
I would describe them as the best mod I've done to my bike and I have the horn, a Seth Laam seat, unlinked brakes, 2 different flashes, a Garmin 220 GPS and a rather nice radar detector setup. So yeah, you could say that overall, I am very happy with them.
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Thanks for the info. I know the ballasts are good, since the lights are on :) I have not had a chance to actually swap things around to see if I have a bad solenoid or bad wiring yet... it has just been so F'ing *HOT* lately. Every chance I have had time to do anything it has been either deadly hot, or it is raining, or it is the limited time I have for riding (and you know I am going to choose riding in that case). And once when I had time AFTER riding, the heat was just pouring out of the bike from the ride. Ug
I will certainly post back when I determine what happened. For now, just in case, I lowered the right beam a little- at least those adjustments on the C14 are SUPER easy.
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I put the A&R kit on '09 Dirty Grrrl back in 2010. 8)
Initially I thought it was great.
So bright, blah, blah.... ??? :P
When you pass semis on the interstate at night and they flood your mirrors with high beams after being overtaken you know the *quality* of all that bright light must not be very good. ;)
While in rural Texas on my way to MotoGP last April (2015), the right bulb failed.
One poorly projected HID does very little to light the road after dark. ;)
Unable to find a replacement I went to the nearest Wally World for honest to goodness H4 bulbs.
I stripped that HID kit off my machine at the campground and have not looked back!
As a side, I notice most say the right bulb fails before the left, be it H4 or HID.
That's how mine go.
Any thoughts? :P
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I have not had a chance to actually swap things around to see if I have a bad solenoid or bad wiring yet... it has just been so F'ing *HOT* lately.
My 1.5 hour afternoon nap accidentally became a 5 hour nap... but I had a little time to look into it. There is nothing wrong with the HID kit. The 2 pin connector cable that controls the high/low beam came unplugged on the right headlight. After tearing my hands/arms up I got it plugged back in, and as soon as I moved the steering around it came unplugged again. The velcro that held the ballasts in place has failed (predictable) and things have moved around in ways that are not friendly to cables staying plugged in. I tried re-routing from above and it just came unplugged again. When I have more time, I will have to go in through under the nose and try and fix things up. Sigh.
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I put the A&R kit on '09 Dirty Grrrl back in 2010. 8)
Initially I thought it was great.
So bright, blah, blah.... ??? :P
When you pass semis on the interstate at night and they flood your mirrors with high beams after being overtaken you know the *quality* of all that bright light must not be very good. ;)
While in rural Texas on my way to MotoGP last April (2015), the right bulb failed.
One poorly projected HID does very little to light the road after dark. ;)
Unable to find a replacement I went to the nearest Wally World for honest to goodness H4 bulbs.
I stripped that HID kit off my machine at the campground and have not looked back!
As a side, I notice most say the right bulb fails before the left, be it H4 or HID.
That's how mine go.
Any thoughts? :P
When I had a ballast fail on the way home from out west in early July (in the middle of a 1000+ mile day), I only had one light obviously. It was still just fine on the interstate, like the lights of my car might be. Not insane, but sufficient to get me to a much needed motel at 10:30 at night.
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That's cool it worked out for you.
Overall I was unimpressed, but I dropped 150 bones for the purchase.
I kept it 'til it failed.
5 years
Meanwhile, whoo-hoo, I'm trendy. ::)
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I tried re-routing from above and it just came unplugged again. When I have more time, I will have to go in through under the nose and try and fix things up. Sigh.
Meh, I still haven't done it "right" but I was able to spend yet more time on it today, from above. It might stay plugged in for a while.
Now I know why it was so hard to tell if it was stuck on high or low beam (besides the inherent poor light pattern). When not energized (no power), the bulbs are in low-beam mode. An internal, inaccessible spring in the base pushes the bulbs forward. When energized, the solenoids pull the bulbs back about 6mm or so into the base for high-beam mode position. With the solenoid cable unplugged, it should just be stuck in low-beam.... but the bulb was not returning fully forward. It was about 3mm too far back, meaning it was kinda halfway between the two. I removed the bulb and used a pointer to "exercise" the bulb base in and out and it seemed to now return almost to the correct low-beam position... perhaps 1mm off. And it seems consistent when using the high/low switch now. Not sure how long that will last, either.
Something else I noticed is a smokey, light-gray build-up on the both bulbs and it also is on the surface of both the reflectors in a "Y" pattern above the bulbs. Almost looks like a vapor deposition of some sort. I don't know if it is permanent damage or just something on the surface (I can't access the reflectors and the bulbs should never be touched with anything). I attached two photos to show it. The first is actual, the second I colored the area red so you know what area I am talking about. I noticed it a long time ago, but it is getting progressively worse over time.
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When messing with my setup, I wanted to consult the documentation again. Then I realized a grave issue- the original instructions were only provided online with a link of http://aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html (http://aandrmotorsport.com/directions/concourshidinstructions.html) and the link is dead. Worse, I never saved or printed the instructions, so all I have are the receipts and such.
I Emailed A&R yesterday asking for the instructions and they responded that they lost all those documents when their server crashed (no backups???), have not offered the kit since, and apologized profusely, offering only generic instructions for another kit.
Is it possible that ANYONE on our forum saved the instructions in some form that could be shared? I did some web searching and came up completely blank.
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Is it possible that ANYONE on our forum saved the instructions in some form that could be shared? I did some web searching and came up completely blank.
Let me save you a lot of work and heartache. Just get the LEDs (https://www.amazon.com/Evitek-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-Installed/dp/B017M566T4 (https://www.amazon.com/Evitek-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-Installed/dp/B017M566T4)) ..yeah, yeah, I know they
scatter a little, but they are still pretty good compared to many.
OH...wait...my mistake I forgot whom was asking the question. Sorry max', I know there is no way you'd buy those just to save yourself a little work in the future.
OK, here ya go, knock your self out. (sorry about the page breaks in the pictures, I'm sure there is some way to get rid of those, but with free software I don't care)
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Let me save you a lot of work and heartache. Just get the LEDs (https://www.amazon.com/Evitek-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-Installed/dp/B017M566T4 (https://www.amazon.com/Evitek-LED-Headlight-Bulbs-Installed/dp/B017M566T4)) ..yeah, yeah, I know they
scatter a little, but they are still pretty good compared to many.
My next step will be doing it right- some type of projector system
OH...wait...my mistake I forgot whom was asking the question. Sorry max', I know there is no way you'd buy those just to save yourself a little work in the future.
I am lazy. I will do anything to save time; as long as it meets my objectives.
OK, here ya go, knock your self out. (sorry about the page breaks in the pictures, I'm sure there is some way to get rid of those, but with free software I don't care)
Wow/thanks! This is great! :) :) :) If you have the original HTML zipped, I would take that too; perhaps I can paginate it manually. If so, I will post it back.
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If you have the original HTML zipped, I would take that too...
Kinda greedy aren'tcha? ;D
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Kinda greedy aren'tcha? ;D
No, just as masochist, it seems.... But thanks. I tried every trick in my book to get a PDF with better page breaks, decent photo resolution, and a reasonable size. It seems I could get any TWO of the three :)
Attached is my attempt with better page breaks and reasonable size (with some additional annotations about seeing photos BELOW each numbered instruction). The better quality blows it up to over twice the allowed attachment size, unfortunately. Perhaps someone else can do better from the HTML files. Who knows. I will Email the stuff to A&R too.