Author Topic: I need to vent about this......  (Read 14825 times)

Offline Jet

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #20 on: May 27, 2011, 10:22:33 AM »
I miss my Jarts....
...and a good time was had by all.

Offline Rhino

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #21 on: May 27, 2011, 10:35:09 AM »
 :goodpost:

Some good comments.  Even respectful.  Cool.

I do not equate legal with moral or wise.  They can be the same, but often are not.  Many legal actions are "bad", while many illegals actions are not.

As to watching shows not harming children:  Once Hitler controlled the media, (many of) the children raised watching, reading, hearing, learning his message grew up to willingly participate in the horrors on Nazi Germany.  IMO, that is much worse that falling off a motorcycle.

As to caring, it is bold to suggest that minding one's own business is tantamount to being uncaring.  I thought that should have been clear in my first post, but apparently it was not.  Many laws have been proposed and enacted in the name of caring that only served to restrict legitamate freedoms.  Every one of us every day "endangers" ourself as well as others.  Merely having running water and electricity in our homes is a risk.  Driving a car, we endanger a huge number of people almost every time we get on a city street or highway.  Same with bikes, perhaps more danger to ourself and less to others than a car, but the same principle is effective.  The world seems to have plenty of caring people who want to take away our cars, motorcycles, knives, guns, trampolines, lawn darts, bb guns, etc.

If you really care, should you have cps take your neighbor's kids away if he buys a trampoline?  No, being caring and being a busybody are not the same thing.

Again, teach correct principles and let people govern themselves.

Offline 2001concours

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #22 on: May 27, 2011, 10:35:30 AM »
I have no problem watching an adult taking willing chances with their life. As long as it doesn't affect me. If someone wants to do do wheelies down the freeway at 75mph, fine, but not in traffic where their crash could cause a multi car accident and injure me. If they want to shoot up heroin and die, so what, as long as they don't steal from me or my community to support their death wish. If they want to hood surf at 65 mph (I did once) then so be it, as long as I won't be affected by their behavior.

However, when a child is involved with reckless endangerment, I will sure get involved and notify the local authorities. It's then up to them to make the judgement and penalize or let off the adult risking the child.

None of my business? I would be haunted for life with the visions of a child killed senselessly in front of me...
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Offline JetJock

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #23 on: May 27, 2011, 11:15:25 AM »
The purpose of civilization and the Christian religion especially and all the laws and rules that derive from those institutions is to "take care of society's weakest and most vulnerable." A child certainly qualifies.

I agree with the original poster. I would've had the nearest LEO on his ass asap. Besides being a total retard, let's say he crashes and his daughter is killed or horribly injured. Obviously the idiot father gets blamed, but so do ALL OF US. If we don't want more "do-gooder" laws like the one just passed in Texas that all you Libertarian/TP types bitch about, then take some responsibility and help self-police the sport.

Would the idiot father listen to one of us? Who knows and who cares. He's hurting motorcycling, a sport I've been involved in all my life and I thoroughly resent those who do things that hurt or lead to limits on my riding. Don't even get me started on the HD crowd and their open pipes that **** off people for blocks away . . .

When my daughter was about 7, she and I were on a ride to Kentucky. She was wearing all the right gear and a harness I bought designed to allow you to carry a child so they could not fall off the back of a motorcycle or snowmobile. She was securely strapped to me and as safe as I could make her. Someone on the Interstate called the State Patrol and one pulled up to us when I stopped for gas. He checked to make sure she was secure, was satisfied, told us to have a nice day and drove off. Was I PO'd? Not really. He was doing his job, I was doing mine as a parent. No big deal.

Offline snarf

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #24 on: May 27, 2011, 11:58:05 AM »
I miss my Jarts....
:chugbeer: Oh hell yeah...I still have the set from when I was a child.  I was luck enough to go visit my parents and found them in the garbage. That was a close one. Maybe I will pack them up and take them to the Nationals.  I still have my wood burning kit also.  You know the one; the one with the two foot cord.  I put some serious hole in the carpet with that bad boy.
2002 Conc
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Offline Mal

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #25 on: May 27, 2011, 03:12:19 PM »
I have no problem watching an adult taking willing chances with their life. As long as it doesn't affect me. If someone wants to do do wheelies down the freeway at 75mph, fine, but not in traffic where their crash could cause a multi car accident and injure me. If they want to shoot up heroin and die, so what, as long as they don't steal from me or my community to support their death wish. If they want to hood surf at 65 mph (I did once) then so be it, as long as I won't be affected by their behavior.

However, when a child is involved with reckless endangerment, I will sure get involved and notify the local authorities. It's then up to them to make the judgement and penalize or let off the adult risking the child.

None of my business? I would be haunted for life with the visions of a child killed senselessly in front of me...

 :goodpost:

Exactly the way I feel...
`09 ZG-1400
Western Colorado

"It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others" —Henry George

Offline Mister Tee

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #26 on: May 27, 2011, 03:26:44 PM »
I think there is a threshold of what constitutes reckless behavior with children.  Riding with a kid on the tank is not a good idea, no arguing that, but we aren't used to seeing that either.  I travel a lot in Southeast Asia, and it is very common to see, 1, or 2 or more small children and sometimes entire families riding on motorbikes.  That's how they travel.  That's often the only way they have of travelling.

Personally I don't think riding with a small child on a tank in itself warrants getting in the middle of the situation.  If it's in a particularly reckless manner, then yes.  Sort of like the previously mentioned example of seeing a kid get spanked in the supermarket.  Kudos to parents that excercise disipline on their kids.  Beating the crap out of a kid is an entirely different matter.

Offline throb

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #27 on: May 27, 2011, 06:56:45 PM »
Quote
I like motorcycles and firearms, he like fast cars and archery,  where did I go wrong?


  Different position and velocity, same potential outcome.  Don't think you went wrong at all!
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Offline booger

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #28 on: May 27, 2011, 07:01:10 PM »
If no laws are being broken

Well, in Texas, a child under the age of 5 cannot ride as a passenger on a motorcycle.

Offline lt1

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #29 on: May 27, 2011, 10:48:11 PM »
Well as long as we are fantasizing about possible outcomes of the scenario, let's toss this one out:

Father and daughter have a great relationship, including riding together on the motorcycle.  Do-gooder/busybody/caring citizen calls the police.  CPS is involved.  Dad gets fined and some jail time.  Family finances take a beating.  Divorce.  Daughter loses loving relationship with dad.  At 14, runs away from now-broken home.  Lives on street.  Becomes hooker.  Dies of drug overdose at 17.

Since the do-gooder never gets to see the results of their action, they sleep peacefully, never knowing of the lives they have destroyed.

One could argue that it is a bit far-fetched, but it is just as likely as the girl dieing in a crash in front of your eyes.

So I still say, none of your business.  Mind your own kids.  Please.
Eyes, Brain, Hands.  Repeat.

Offline zsiska

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #30 on: May 28, 2011, 04:03:34 AM »
Well as long as we are fantasizing about possible outcomes of the scenario, let's toss this one out:

Father and daughter have a great relationship, including riding together on the motorcycle.  Do-gooder/busybody/caring citizen calls the police.  CPS is involved.  Dad gets fined and some jail time.  Family finances take a beating.  Divorce.  Daughter loses loving relationship with dad.  At 14, runs away from now-broken home.  Lives on street.  Becomes hooker.  Dies of drug overdose at 17.

Since the do-gooder never gets to see the results of their action, they sleep peacefully, never knowing of the lives they have destroyed.

One could argue that it is a bit far-fetched, but it is just as likely as the girl dieing in a crash in front of your eyes.

So I still say, none of your business.  Mind your own kids.  Please.

+1

Unless of course as I said previously it is an obvious case of severe beatings, rape, etc.

Offline Tactical_Mik

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #31 on: May 28, 2011, 05:04:56 AM »
I don't think there is really a right or wrong answer.  There are too many variables to consider.  Legal abligation, moral obligation and what ever mental propensity each individual making the assessment has.  While I would have thought that it wasn't the best decision, I probably would not have taken the action the OP questions. 

Here in Kansas all passengers must have foot rests.  I have a friend who routinely rides with 2 or 3 of his kids on his Gold Wing.  They all wear helmets and such and have solid places for their feet.  I don't really agree with that either but he is operating within the confines of the current laws and these  chillins range from 8 to 11 years old.   I have given nieces and nephews rides on my bike with out any safety equipment.  This was neighborhood stuff at slow speeds but it was certainly braking the law. 

In the hypothetical world that some of the comments in this thread live, there are lots of things that I might take exception to.  However, unless there was an imediate danger to life and I was I was in a position to stop loss of life with out making the situation more dangerous I would not step in. 

I don't have chillins (unless there are a bunch of short, angry asians running around Japan/Okinawa  :) ), I was raised to make my own decisions.  Some where bad, resulting in a beating.  Some where good, resulting in understanding respect from my parents.  Too many people today think it is their right to make decisions for others.  Sad really but such is life today.
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Offline sas mayhem

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #32 on: May 28, 2011, 03:43:13 PM »
  WOW !!! We have some very interesting view point of what I saw, and most of the a valid and make sense, to which I respect.  :thumbs:  I'll little of my back ground to try to explain why I was shocked.  I did the  US Air Force for 20 yrs, aircraft mechanic, QA, aircraft inspection and Crew Chief and Flight Line super.  So I'm always look at things as a safety and "what if " point of view. Sought-of looking at the odds. 
  When I saw that the first thing that went thru my mind was, "that is a hellof a risk.  As WE all know when on the interstate rolling at 70+, an emergency situation can happen real fast and without warning.  So trying to handle your scoot and hold a child on, will be kinda impossible.
I don't think I'm being a busy boddy I honestly think the odds where not in the child's favor.   70+ NO WAY.

 Read this and you'll see were I'm coming from, I simple lapse in judgement caused all this.

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=352566

Cheers
Ron

09 Connie
...try to live a day without doing one of the 5 D’s....Deny, Defer, Deflect, Discount and Deceit...tougher than it sounds....

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #33 on: May 28, 2011, 05:04:26 PM »
AF and a crew chief, you're ok in my book... :thumbs:   Thanks for serving!
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #34 on: May 28, 2011, 06:18:16 PM »
I'm a grandpa, and can't wait (tho I will..) to take my grand doughter and grandson on some fun rides.. with that said, it will be with reasonble protective gear, at reasonable speeds, and on reasonable roads.... willfull neglect for "correct" thinking aside, anyone placing thier pseudo-offspring" at risk need to be surgically "re-alligned"
I cannot wait to take my grand-doughter on a serious ride, to  bond, and enjoy, and to share my passsion, just sooo f'd up some folks don't get the hint on how to do it safely....
« Last Edit: May 28, 2011, 06:51:28 PM by MAN OF BLUES »

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline sas mayhem

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #35 on: May 28, 2011, 06:41:05 PM »
just sooo f'd up some folks don't get the hint on how to do it safely....

Ditto MOB  :thumbs:

and Thank you vajim :chugbeer:
09 Connie
...try to live a day without doing one of the 5 D’s....Deny, Defer, Deflect, Discount and Deceit...tougher than it sounds....

Offline mach1charlie

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #36 on: May 30, 2011, 01:47:13 PM »
How dare someone make a decision regarding the welfare of their own child?  The unmitigated gall!
While I may, and do, agree with your assessment of the wisdom of his actions, it really isn't any of your (or my) business.  Should I call the police or CPS or any government agency or official because I don't like the way you raise your kid?  What if you let them watch the wrong show, or read the wrong book, or go to the wrong church, or eat the wrong food, or play with the wrong toys, or live in the wrong neighborhood, or whatever - the list is infinite. 

Teach correct principles.  Let the people govern themselves.  Freedom is better than coercion, even if "we" are "smarter" than "them" and "know" what is "best" for "them".

Should have put up a poll for this.

I am with the above post...MYOB, its his kid, his bike, his life,
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Offline tidewatergirl

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #37 on: May 30, 2011, 08:17:08 PM »
There is no political correctness on stupid. No ones constitutional rights have been denied by calling the cops when a law is being broke and a childs life is saved. If we are not our brothers keeper then why befriend a broken down roadside biker or stop for stop signs.....screw the posted speed limits....etc. When any of us walk out the door of our humble homes we join society whether we like it or not.....and we should look out for the weak and oppressed.  Any Veterans agree with that on this Memorial Day......shouldn't that concept begin on our  front door as well as abroad.  I'm just saying..... :-*
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Offline Mal

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2011, 09:53:28 PM »
Should have put up a poll for this.

I am with the above post...MYOB, its his kid, his bike, his life,

His life, his decision. His kids life, not his decision....
`09 ZG-1400
Western Colorado

"It is not the business of government to make men virtuous or religious, or to preserve the fool from the consequences of his own folly. Government should be repressive no further than is necessary to secure liberty by protecting the equal rights of each from aggression on the part of others" —Henry George

Offline lt1

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Re: I need to vent about this......
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2011, 10:36:48 PM »
Oh, wow.  So you want someone calling the police everytime you break a law?  Regardless of whether you think that it is a good law?  Maybe if that happened we would lose some of the stupid laws we have.  Assuming anyone still had enough life, liberty or property left to change the laws.

Of all the "caring, neighborly" posters here, not one of you has shown a whit of interest in getting to know the dad, and talking to him about bike safety.  Utter hypocrisy.

If your child's life is not your decision, just whose decision is it?  Mine?  Some gov't committee?  CPS?  As I stated before, every day parent's make decisions that affect their children's lives.  When I was a kid, there were no seatbelts in the cars we had, and it was not illegal for me to ride standing up, sitting down, or laying on the shelf in the rear window.  Now it is a crime.  Same behavior, but now illegal.  My parents "put my (then a child) life at risk.  Should we dig them out of their graves & prosecute?  They let me ride a minibike w/ no helmet.  Evil criminals.  Some of you might want to re-examine just how many of your freedoms you want to give up while you are wanting to take them away from others. 

The man did not kill his kid.  Get a grip.  Please.
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