Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: SuazoC14 on February 01, 2014, 10:40:28 PM
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I use my bike tonight came home and park it, few hours later i try to start it and the ignition will not open. Then i found this, easy fix.. just watch this in youtube.. i am sure most of you have seen this issue but just incase here it is, by removing the top portion of the selenoid everything works normal, the only difference is no need to push down, only to lock and ulock!!
Kipass failure Kawasaki Concours 14 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otvC_AlqxUI#ws)
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Sometimes I will have to press down 3 or 4 times before the ignition will unlock, so I would like a permanent fix, but the video only showed me the tap method works. Did I miss something? Actually I would like to get rid of the entire KPASS system and just use the key as every other bike does. Is there some easy, inexpensive way to do that?
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I use my bike tonight came home and park it, few hours later i try to start it and the ignition will not open. Then i found this, easy fix.. just watch this in youtube.. i am sure most of you have seen this issue but just incase here it is, by removing the top portion of the selenoid everything works normal, the only difference is no need to push down, only to lock and unlock!!
Holy crap....dude, I hope you didn't remove the entire front end of your bike to access the ignition?...lol.
You found A spring in the ignition, but you didn't find the right spring.
The sticking spring/button in question is just under the key, at approx. 8 o'clock. The button under there isn't really weather proof, and dirt/dust/debris gets in it, and the button sticks. All you have to do is pull the top triple clamp off, and remove the ignition housing. Clean the button and surrounding area with electrical cleaner, and then lubricate it. You'll never have a problem with it again. Kawasaki installed a heavier spring under this button in 2009, so that's why it was only really an issue with the 2008 models.
I took it apart on my 08 C14, cleaned & lubricated it, and it never acted up again.
There's no need to disable the KiPass system and key lock, or even to go near that solenoid...just clean the sticky button and spring, and it'll work as good as new.
You can put the front of your bike back on now. :thumbs: :thumbs:
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Sometimes I will have to press down 3 or 4 times before the ignition will unlock, so I would like a permanent fix, but the video only showed me the tap method works. Did I miss something? Actually I would like to get rid of the entire KPASS system and just use the key as every other bike does. Is there some easy, inexpensive way to do that?
Not that we're aware of...
I think that the video is good as far as showing the switch housing. Everything we've seen so far echoes what Rembrandt said. I've never heard of an issue with that side of the housing. Brian is going to have to chime in here as he's fairly knowledgeable on that subject.
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Everything we've seen so far echoes what Rembrandt said. I've never heard of an issue with that side of the housing. Brian is going to have to chime in here as he's fairly knowledgeable on that subject.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with the solenoid. The problem that suazoC14 is having here...with the solenoid sticking, is because the button under the key is dirty and is sticking (because the spring is weak). It gets a little dirt in it, and the spring isn't strong enough to overcome the sticky part. Once it is cleaned, and lubed, it works like new again. I believe Kawasaki changed this spring sometime in 2009 to a heavier duty version, and it will overcome any dirt or debris that gets in the button.
I know dealers were replacing this spring in the 2008 models with the newer heavier version....for a while...not sure if they still are or not. Like I said, if you clean it up and lubricate it, it will work just fine, even with the original 'weak' spring.
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My bike is a 2009 but for now i have removed the top portion if the selenoid to get me by, will follow up on the ignition housing next time.. thanks guy.
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My bike is a 2009 but for now i have removed the top portion if the selenoid to get me by, will follow up on the ignition housing next time.. thanks guy.
All you have to do is clean the button and spring, and you should be fine after that;). You can re-install the top portion of the solenoid this way.
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I kind of like not needing to push in... just turn the knob no real need for the push in activation, they only did that so ur bike will not turn over without the fob, but even without the fob the bike will never turn on..
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Spray a small amount of WD-40 on the Key once a month and you shouldn't have any more trouble. (it's what I do)
I always turn my key to the right so I can remove it. I always use that key to unlock the gas cap and bags, not the key in the fob.
My bike is a 2009 with over 50,000mi. on it, the switch still works like new.
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I've never been a fan of oily lubes for locks as they tend to hold dirt. I use a graphite based lock lube.
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Spray a small amount of WD-40 on the Key once a month and you shouldn't have any more trouble. (it's what I do)
Spraying oil on the key won't have any effect on the sticky button issue that the original poster is having.
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I believe the heavier springs appeared in 2011 and are being retrofitted to earlier models by dealers, at least in cases where the bikes are under warranty, and I believe even at least some that are not.
The heavier springs reduce but have not eliminated the switch sticking 'on' problem; I know of a '13 that got stuck on a trip and the new, heavier spring was replaced with the new, heavier spring :-)
Changing the spring is quite easy; getting to where the spring can be changed is not and requires a couple of security bolts be drilled out from underneath the ignition switch assembly so it can be disassembled. I can be done by the shade tree mechanic but it is a fairly ugly job best left to a competent dealer if they will take care of it.
Sooner or alter, and it looks like it will be later, Kawasaki should re-fit this system with a positive- return system where the key will be rigidly attached (easy boys!) to the activation switch. This would not only show that the switch had stuck in the down or 'ON' position but would allow the operator to manually lift the key and switch with absolutely certainly.
Brian
<snip>
I know dealers were replacing this spring in the 2008 models with the newer heavier version....for a while...not sure if they still are or not. Like I said, if you clean it up and lubricate it, it will work just fine, even with the original 'weak' spring.
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ive just tried the disconect the grey plug method in case i ever need this. With my Fob in range ive unplugged the grey box, nothing happens there is no click. to turn the key I still have to push down for the click
will this method allow the bike to be started without the fob?
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Yep, that is one method to get around a stuck switch. Clunky and cumbersome though- there are other, 'slicker' methods but I do not want to belabor that point.
No, you cannot start a C-14 without a valid, working fob that the bike has been coded to recognize. Any bypass methods we are talking about simply bypass the activation switch, not KiPass itself. KiPass cannot be bypassed using any feasible, practical method.
Brian
ive just tried the disconect the grey plug method in case i ever need this. With my Fob in range ive unplugged the grey box, nothing happens there is no click. to turn the key I still have to push down for the click
will this method allow the bike to be started without the fob?
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Yep, that is one method to get around a stuck switch. Clunky and cumbersome though- there are other, 'slicker' methods but I do not want to belabor that point.
No, you cannot start a C-14 without a valid, working fob that the bike has been coded to recognize. Any bypass methods we are talking about simply bypass the activation switch, not KiPass itself. KiPass cannot be bypassed using any feasible, practical method.
Brian
When I unplug/plug the grey block it does not allow me to turn the key, what am i doing wrong? can you explain the procedure to me, just want to know this bypass in case i ever get stuck
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If plugging the gray connector back in does not illuminate the dash screen, make an audible 'click' or anything else, then you do not have the 'stuck activation switch' problem.
That is all there is to it- just unplug the connector and re-plug it and if the activation switch is stuck, the bike will 'turn on', the dash will light and the ignition switch will unlock for (I think) 5 seconds. Then everything will lock up again.
I also sell a commercial product to do this same thing easier and more gracefully and you can take a look at: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6976.msg82841#msg82841 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6976.msg82841#msg82841) But again, if the gray connector being re-connected does NOT cause the dash to light up then you do not have the stuck activation switch and do not need and cannot use any bypass method, including mine.
Brian
When I unplug/plug the grey block it does not allow me to turn the key, what am i doing wrong? can you explain the procedure to me, just want to know this bypass in case i ever get stuck
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Any bypass methods we are talking about simply bypass the activation switch, not KiPass itself. KiPass cannot be bypassed using any feasible, practical method.
Thank goodness. We don't want such an expensive bike to be easy to steal!
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If plugging the gray connector back in does not illuminate the dash screen, make an audible 'click' or anything else, then you do not have the 'stuck activation switch' problem.
That is all there is to it- just unplug the connector and re-plug it and if the activation switch is stuck, the bike will 'turn on', the dash will light and the ignition switch will unlock for (I think) 5 seconds. Then everything will lock up again.
I also sell a commercial product to do this same thing easier and more gracefully and you can take a look at: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6976.msg82841#msg82841 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6976.msg82841#msg82841) But again, if the gray connector being re-connected does NOT cause the dash to light up then you do not have the stuck activation switch and do not need and cannot use any bypass method, including mine.
Brian
thanks BDF , thats very helpful.
While we are on the subject of bypass, a forum member that we have all foloowd for a number of years called MGvalerio claims he can defeat the kipass in 15 seconds. Ive read the thread on here where he made the claim and saw all your responses. Initially I dismissed it but coupled with the fact that he is somewhat of an engineering genius, have you seen the modifications he has come up with. He is adamant that his bypass is there . Now someone else on the Net is saying the same. Im inclinded to believe him now.
back in the uk several years ago we had a GM car that could be started by taking out the hazard light switch and plugging it in upside down,the ignition all became active!!
you just never know!
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If plugging the gray connector back in does not illuminate the dash screen, make an audible 'click' or anything else, then you do not have the 'stuck activation switch' problem.
Brian
Yesterday after 6 year with my connie I had the same problem. I had read about that.
Ok. I did the procedure with the gray connector but nothing happened.
The battery is Ok
All the fuses are Ok.
Any idea ?
I have plans for this weekend :'(
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I would suspect a fob communication issue: try removing the key from the back of the fob, holding the fob against the boss on the front of the ignition switch housing and then press the key down. If that doesn't work, hold the fob in the same place and pull the fuse out of the by- pass harness and put it back in. What you may have is two different problems here: a dead fob battery AND a stuck activation switch. Unlikely to be sure but it could happen. But first, I am betting on the bike not sensing the fob due to a dead battery, the fob got damaged, or anything similar. The really easy way is again, use the RFID method in the owner's manual that I have outlined above: hold the fob against that boss and press the key down.
Also, try the other fob just in the odd and unlikely event that the main or primary fob failed for some reason (although both the RF and RFID portions failing at the same time, without tremendous physical damage having been done would be amazing).
Also check the battery cables and make sure you are getting power to any one of the three fuse blocks. If the battery is charged but the main fuse has opened, nothing on the bike will work. If you have a voltmeter or a small test- lamp, see if there is voltage inside any fuse box on the incoming side. I wrote an article quite a while ago on how to do this with an LED but I don't know if you are a COG member and got the Concourier.
One of those things should work. If not, more in- depth diagnostics will be needed.
Best of luck.
Brian
Yesterday after 6 year with my connie I had the same problem. I had read about that.
Ok. I did the procedure with the gray connector but nothing happened.
The battery is Ok
All the fuses are Ok.
Any idea ?
I have plans for this weekend :'(
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Thanks
I'll check as son as i finish my work.
By the way i tried to start the bike with my 2 FOB and does not work.
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That is unfortunate- this one may not be as easy as a fob battery change.
Do you have a voltmeter?
Brian
Thanks
I'll check as son as i finish my work.
By the way i tried to start the bike with my 2 FOB and does not work.
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Yes I have.
I'll do the other test when i be at home.
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Yeah, open the more forward fuse box, connect the negative lead of the voltmeter, and probe around (easy boys!) on all contacts inside the fuse box: you should see a nominal 12 volts on one side of one or more fuses. If not, there is no power getting to the bike and it may be the main fuse, a loose connection on the battery, frame or starter solenoid. But first, let's see if you have voltage at a fuse box at all.
Brian
Yes I have.
I'll do the other test when i be at home.
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All that i did was disconnect and reconnect the batery.
Then i listened the lovely "click" of the KiPass.
Thanks. !!!!
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All hail KIPASS!
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All hail KIPASS!
:salute: :hail:
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This morning when i was commute the display show "Steering lock error"
But not problema at all.
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Did you get water in your switch?
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Did you get water in your switch?
A Little maybe.
Last sunday I wash the bike.
But after that, the bike start up without problem.
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A Little maybe.
Last sunday I wash the bike.
But after that, the bike start up without problem.
There's your problem. ;)
The 'Steering Lock Error' is one I haven't heard about before. Did you have the steering locked? When did it show up?
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There's your problem. ;)
The 'Steering Lock Error' is one I haven't heard about before. Did you have the steering locked? When did it show up?
I was driving when the message Appeared flashing on the board.
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Just a suggestion but I think I would continue around and tighten all the cables on the battery, the ground on the frame and the positive cable to the solenoid. It strikes me as odd that you had a bad battery cable and now get an error that I don't think anyone has ever seen before.
As far as washing, I have not found or heard that these bikes are very sensitive to water. You certainly may have a problem around the ignition switch but again, I would go back to the battery cables; we have seen quite a lot of problems originate there, including a lot of KiPass problems. ::)
Brian
I was driving when the message Appeared flashing on the board.
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Never ever wash the bike, bad things will happen. :_shudder_Emoticon
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Never ever wash the bike, bad things will happen. :_shudder_Emoticon
There you go, Jim. Just keep letting all the crud build up on your bike and you won't need those pesky Canyon Cages after all. :thumbs:
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The 'Steering Lock Error' is one I haven't heard about before. Did you have the steering locked? When did it show up?
I had no idea that the onboard computer even monitored the steering lock?
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There you go, Jim. Just keep letting all the crud build up on your bike and you won't need those pesky Canyon Cages after all. :thumbs:
I've had two 'bad' things happen after washing the bike. It failed to start, battery connection issue actually, but was starting fine before the wash. Not so much after it. Coincidence, I think not. The second was a KIPASS issue with the ignition switch which I resolved by cursing it soundly and thrashing it with my silver hammer. And no, I didn't spray the ignition assembly with a power washer. Others may have had good luck with washing the bike or inserting it in a very large glass with a dubious wine pedigree, but not me. I therefore go with what works and washing the bike is not on the list. ;)
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I had no idea that the onboard computer even monitored the steering lock?
Yup, it sure does. FI ECU, FOBs, Steering Lock, etc all communicate with, and must be registered with the KiPass ECU.
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I've had two 'bad' things happen after washing the bike. It failed to start, battery connection issue actually, but was starting fine before the wash. Not so much after it. Coincidence, I think not. The second was a KIPASS issue with the ignition switch which I resolved by cursing it soundly and thrashing it with my silver hammer. And no, I didn't spray the ignition assembly with a power washer. Others may have had good luck with washing the bike or inserting it in a very large glass with a dubious wine pedigree, but not me. I therefore go with what works and washing the bike is not on the list. ;)
Maybe you need a lucky rabbit's foot? Or maybe an elk hoof?
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Wasn't lucky for either the rabbit or the Elk, was it? Therefore, I'm 'sticking' with what 'works' for me. :)
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Wasn't lucky for either the rabbit or the Elk, was it? Therefore, I'm 'sticking' with what 'works' for me. :)
Well, without knowing the circumstances that led up to the rabbit and/or the elk loosing said foot, we have no way of knowing if it was lucky or not.
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Let me show for first time in this forum the "Steering Lock Error"
After i reset the display the error has not showed again.
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Interesting- I do not think we have seen that one before. It is service code (error number) 68 and the explanation is somewhat generic- there is some contact difficulty with the ignition switch housing KiPass unit. ?? It has absolutely nothing to do with the steering lock as we think of it (where you turn the bars fully to the left and turn the key fully counter clockwise) but the electronics locking aspects of the ignition switch.
Seeing as you opened the gray connector, make absolutely sure it is fully seated and connected. Sometimes it take a bit of force to fully close that connector as there are seals inside it that make it waterproof.
If it goes away and stays away, I would ignore it and chalk it up to an oddity of the system resetting after being disconnected from the main battery.
Brian
Let me show for first time in this forum the "Steering Lock Error"
After i reset the display the error has not showed again.