perfect video concerning the disrespect our flag has been seeing lately

[Conrad]

How can anyone not agree with this?

Please watch the entire vid.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/EuymzkaPagM

[Rubber_Snake]

I could not agree more.

[maxtog]

PragerU!

[mikeyw64]

Unlike in India where citizens there can be punished under the “Prevention of Insults to National Honor Act” for disturbing the anthem’s playing and where offenders could face up to three years in prison for a disturbance the NFL players(& others) aren't actually breaking any laws. ( I believe the US Flag code [which is technically a guideline based on custom rather than a piece of legislation] uses the phrase "should" rather than "shall" or "must")


Gotta love your First Amendment Rights to Free Speech 


Is it disrespectful? Some people would argue that kneelng actually shows more respect than standing but then culture has a lot to play there.

[B.D.F.]

This is only in response to Mike's post- I did not actually watch the video presented in this thread and so have no comment on that.

Actually, I really do love the First Amendment. :-)  But as always, the litmus test is when someone says something that someone (everyone? most everyone?) does not agree with. When people are saying things others find acceptable there is no need to guarantee their ability to do that in the first place.

The US Congress did make it illegal to deface or burn the American flag but our Supreme Court over- ruled that law because it violated the First Amendment.

As we have become more politically correct in the US, as well as more polarized toward one side or the other, it seems a lot of us have forgotten or simply choose to ignore the basic 'rules' that our country operates under. There is a huge difference, at least as far as I can tell, between making it illegal to discriminate (meaning actually damage another person or group) based on who or what that group is and actually having to LIKE or even accept that person or group with open arms. But this is where the P.C. part kicks in an now people cannot even state their opinions if they run contrary to the 'correct' thinking of the day. So very unfortunate, IMO.

I believe the US has an excellent Owner's Manual (Declaration of Independence, US Constitution) as well as an excellent Repair Manual and methodology (legislative ability, coupled with judicial oversight and their ability to 'correct' improper legislation). Further, as a nation, I think we have done an outstanding job overall (not to imply perfect or without serious lapses and flaws) of bringing those wonderful documents forward in time while keeping the basic nature of them intact.

We could really use a public school class or several of them in 'How to be an American' but it would not be possible for anyone to teach it anyway 'cause anyone trying to do so would be three clicks to the bad side of Adolph Hitler in the first ten seconds of such a class.

Brian (who thinks he can read and actually understand the words, at least somewhat)

Unlike in India where citizens there can be punished under the “Prevention of Insults to National Honor Act” for disturbing the anthem’s playing and where offenders could face up to three years in prison for a disturbance the NFL players(& others) aren't actually breaking any laws. ( I believe the US Flag code [which is technically a guideline based on custom rather than a piece of legislation] uses the phrase "should" rather than "shall" or "must")


Gotta love your First Amendment Rights to Free Speech 


Is it disrespectful? Some people would argue that kneelng actually shows more respect than standing but then culture has a lot to play there.

[gPink]

The Constitution of the United States will only survive if a majority the citizens of this country willing follow it's tenets. We are so very close to the tipping point. 

[B.D.F.]

We are well beyond a majority already not following at least large portions of it, and I also believe a large portion does not understand it. I was serious about teaching it in school, and more than a few adults could use a little tutorial too.

Our entire society is a pendulum and it swings back and forth (Easy Boys! Not THAT way!), sometimes a little and sometimes quite a lot. Then we come along with a hammer and give it a smack in the other direction. We are always seeking the center without ever actually getting there, which is exactly how I would expect it to go. But sometimes, the pendulum swings a bit too far to one side or the other, and occasionally swings a great distance too far. And that is scary.

We shoot for "....with liberty and justice for all." Of course that is not achievable but sometimes the infractions against liberty and / or justice are so large as to be incredible.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

We saw it happen not all that long ago in Germany. The vast majority of Germans are 'good men' (meaning people here of course) but did either nothing or not enough to resist evil and for a short time, evil did triumph. We have had some pretty bad periods of the same thing on a lesser scale in the US- Joseph McCarthy jumping immediately to mind. But challenging the current direction is difficult and is often costly, up to and including the cost of one's life so it takes tenacity and grim determination to correct the direction of that pendulum most of the time. And most of us are not able or perhaps willing to pay that price far too much of the time.

Brian

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/edmund_burke_377528

The Constitution of the United States will only survive if a majority the citizens of this country willing follow it's tenets. We are so very close to the tipping point. 

[mikeyw64]

His birth name (a per his birth certificate) was Adolfus which would make himAdolf (Germanic) rather than Adolph (which is more of French origin)

We could really use a public school class or several of them in 'How to be an American' but it would not be possible for anyone to teach it anyway 'cause anyone trying to do so would be three clicks to the bad side of Adolph Hitler in the first ten seconds of such a class.

[B.D.F.]

Is that not just like you English, always trying to put all the blame for everything on the French!

 

Of course the entire English speaking world likes to pick on the French..... exibit 'A':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZUKEVU-TwM

Brian

His birth name (a per his birth certificate) was Adolfus which would make himAdolf (Germanic) rather than Adolph (which is more of French origin)

[gPink]

So you're saying ol' Joe was wrong?

We are well beyond a majority already not following at least large portions of it, and I also believe a large portion does not understand it. I was serious about teaching it in school, and more than a few adults could use a little tutorial too.

Our entire society is a pendulum and it swings back and forth (Easy Boys! Not THAT way!), sometimes a little and sometimes quite a lot. Then we come along with a hammer and give it a smack in the other direction. We are always seeking the center without ever actually getting there, which is exactly how I would expect it to go. But sometimes, the pendulum swings a bit too far to one side or the other, and occasionally swings a great distance too far. And that is scary.

We shoot for "....with liberty and justice for all." Of course that is not achievable but sometimes the infractions against liberty and / or justice are so large as to be incredible.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."
-Edmund Burke

We saw it happen not all that long ago in Germany. The vast majority of Germans are 'good men' (meaning people here of course) but did either nothing or not enough to resist evil and for a short time, evil did triumph. We have had some pretty bad periods of the same thing on a lesser scale in the US- Joseph McCarthy jumping immediately to mind. But challenging the current direction is difficult and is often costly, up to and including the cost of one's life so it takes tenacity and grim determination to correct the direction of that pendulum most of the time. And most of us are not able or perhaps willing to pay that price far too much of the time.

Brian

Read more at: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/edmund_burke_377528

[mikeyw64]

Ahem , another minor correction Brian. As per my avatars flag I'm Welsh *not* English

Is that not just like you English, always trying to put all the blame for everything on the French!

 

Of course the entire English speaking world likes to pick on the French..... exibit 'A':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZUKEVU-TwM

Brian

[VirginiaJim]

Is that not just like you English, always trying to put all the blame for everything on the French!

 

Of course the entire English speaking world likes to pick on the French..... exibit 'A':

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZUKEVU-TwM

Brian

And your point being?

[B.D.F.]

No, McCarthy was merely an idiot, which is no problem and we can easily handle. The people who were wrong were all of those who lined up beside and behind him to conduct things such as investigative committees looking for "Unamerican behavior". And worse still, miss- treating those found to be "guilty" of "Unamerican activities" or even those who refused to cooperate with such an illegal thing to investigate the political connections or beliefs of ANY US citizen.

That entire episode of American history should have been nothing more than an amusing passage by an idiot Senator (and a few others in both the House and Senate). Unfortunately, it 'took hold' and became something real that Americans never should have had to deal with in any way, shape or form. Again, go get the 'Owner's Manual' and the 'Maintenance and Repair manuals' of the US and find me one, single, solitary instance where that activity is condoned, never mind not made specifically illegal.

A disgraceful period in American history IMO. Eleanor Roosevelt called McCarthy "our Goebbels" and while I am no fan of Mrs. Roosevelt, I agree with her sentiment on this issue 100%.

Mr. Lincoln said it far better than my poor language skills allow me to express it: "As a nation, we began by declaring that "all men are created equal." We now practically read it "all men are created equal, except negroes" When the Know-Nothings get control, it will read "all men are created equal, except negroes, and foreigners, and Catholics." When it comes to this I should prefer emigrating to some country where they make no pretence of loving liberty -- to Russia, for instance, where despotism can be taken pure, and without the base alloy of hypocracy [sic].
A. Lincoln, 1855

NOTE: this has been mistaken for a reference to communism before but that is not and can not be correct: communism was unknown when Mr. Lincoln wrote the above. He was speaking of Czarist Russia, not the Soviet Union that would not be formed for another 67 years. Or three score and seven years. :-)

Brian

So you're saying ol' Joe was wrong?

[gPink]

So ol'Joe and his cronies weaponized elements of the fedgov to punish/destroy perceived political enemies. A bit of dejavue going on these days.

[VirginiaJim]

Seems like that..

[Conrad]

Hey Brian!

Um, why not watch the video? It's not very long and I promise that you'll agree with it's message. Also, there's no mention of the POTUS or any other politicians.

[sanmo]

Ann Coulter looks hotter than usual?

[B.D.F.]

OK, watched it. Honestly, this is just not all that big of an issue for me because as that woman said, everyone IS free to sit, stand, kneel, spit, etc., etc. and that is all a citizen is guaranteed (first, fifth and 14th Amendments) is the freedom of expression, not any restrictions on what may be perceived as proper behavior.

As far as it being effective, I honestly do not know about that either: non- violent protest has long been a valid way to state a person or group's displeasure with the status quo. It is perfectly legal to do so, beyond that, it is way above my pay grade to judge if it is the smartest thing young, angry black people can or even should do to try and alter things. ??

The real issue as I see it is that it is another source of conflict, emotional inflaming in general, and creates a problem for those trying to run otherwise profitable, peaceable and generally well- liked business such as the NFL, the team owners, stadiums, vendors, that millions of paying fans clearly want. None of this is a legal matter and certainly not a constitutional matter though. But on a practical level, perhaps a compromise by the teams wherein those who may not want to stand for the anthem stay inside, out of public sight, until the anthem and maybe opening ceremonies are finished and then present themselves, respectfully, on the field. That would allow those who do not care to support the anthem to avoid it, make a perfectly obvious statement, but not outright stir up additional anger and 'blowback' far beyond whatever positive they might be trying to achieve.

So kinda' yeah, I do agree with the message other than the specific direction to conform and 'blend in'. But the overall message that those lashing out are creating more problems than they are solving I do agree with.... but as I said, it is not my 'job' or anyone else's IMO, to tell anyone or any group what they can / cannot, should / should not do beyond a suggestion (which that video was- it was NOT a directive, rule or anything else, and it was pretty well presented I think).

By the way, I personally do not like that behavior but 1) it does not make me angry and 2) it is not only legal but protected behavior so there is no question in my mind whether or not 'something should be done to stop it' (I mean in any official, rule- driven way) because THAT would be unconstitutional. Of course if fans do not like it and withhold their football dollars, why that too is perfectly fine, sends a strong message I think, and is not only a very American way to do something, it is a very capitalist way too.

Brian

Hey Brian!

Um, why not watch the video? It's not very long and I promise that you'll agree with it's message. Also, there's no mention of the POTUS or any other politicians.

[Rhino]

Agree completely with this video.  The only thing I would add, is that regardless of the message, people tune into the NFL to watch football, not to watch a protest. To do it on the job to a captive audience is unacceptable IMO. If I came to work and advocated some political opinion while on the job in my companies facility, I would expect to be fired.

[B.D.F.]

I agree with you about the job aspect but again, that is the P.C. kicking in in this country to the point where everyone is terrified to do ANYTHING that can be perceived, in the slightest and most convoluted way, of picking or disparaging any of the 'protected' groups. And right now, the black community is the most protected group as far as I can tell.

The team owners could alter this behavior but only if they do it extremely carefully and in unison, as a group. If one team owner does it, he / she / then will be tarred and feathered for being racist.

A very poor state of affairs IMO. The P.C. wind blows so strong one cannot even tell the truth if it is not in agreement with the 'correct' thinking.

Brian

Agree completely with this video.  The only thing I would add, is that regardless of the message, people tune into the NFL to watch football, not to watch a protest. To do it on the job to a captive audience is unacceptable IMO. If I came to work and advocated some political opinion while on the job in my companies facility, I would expect to be fired.