Author Topic: This is a proverbial bridge too far......  (Read 11746 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #20 on: March 16, 2018, 07:13:00 AM »
London's a shithole anyways, can't see for the life of me why anyone would want to live there :)

So your answer is "yes , children should be punished for their parents criminal activity"

Correct ?

Where's the punishment? Parents are supposed to care for their offspring. We wouldn't want to break up the family unit now would we.

Offline gPink

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #21 on: March 16, 2018, 07:17:08 AM »
Well that was  an interesting exercise.

Numbers for illegal immigrants in the UK vary between 300,000 & 600,000. If we double that upper figure to 1.2 million (just to give a reasonable overestimate)  then based on a population size of 65 million that represents 1.9% of the UK population are here illegally,


I believe the figure for the USA is around 3.4% so yes you do have a bigger problem than us if you view it that way and we appear to be doing a better job already thank you ;)

Yep, good job.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islamist-extremists-uk-highest-number-europe-25000-terror-threat-eu-official-isis-islam-britain-a7923966.html
NewsUKHome News
UK home to up to 25,000 Islamist extremists who could pose threat, EU official warns
Number is the highest known figure in Europe, amid concern over 'known' extremists launching recent attacks

Lizzie Dearden Home Affairs Correspondent

Offline Rhino

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #22 on: March 16, 2018, 07:30:00 AM »
here's a related question.

Should a child be punished for their parents criminal actions?

Children are punished all the time for their parents crimes. Kids are separated from their parents every time a criminal that is also a parent goes to jail.

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2018, 07:38:58 AM »
Yep, good job.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islamist-extremists-uk-highest-number-europe-25000-terror-threat-eu-official-isis-islam-britain-a7923966.html
NewsUKHome News
UK home to up to 25,000 Islamist extremists who could pose threat, EU official warns
Number is the highest known figure in Europe, amid concern over 'known' extremists launching recent attacks

Lizzie Dearden Home Affairs Correspondent

Not all illegal immigrants are Islamist Extremists (or to put it another way, some of those nutters will be British born/naturalised)

2 seperate issues
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2018, 07:43:12 AM »
Children are punished all the time for their parents crimes. Kids are separated from their parents every time a criminal that is also a parent goes to jail.

True, will think of a better way of wording it but meanwhile being more specific:


This particular young lady sounds like a big positive vote for democracy and the system  in the USA.

First person in her family ever to graduate from College and being so high profile I would imagine she has followed due process and applied for PD to allow her to stay regardless of her parents transgressions in the past .



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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2018, 07:47:35 AM »
although it's also equally likely her appointment is nothing more than cocking a snoot at the opposition ;)

(would be nice to think she had just got it on merit though)
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Offline turbojoe78

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2018, 08:33:20 AM »

This particular young lady sounds like a big positive vote for democracy and the system  in the USA.

First person in her family ever to graduate from College and being so high profile I would imagine she has followed due process and applied for PD to allow her to stay regardless of her parents transgressions in the past .

This particular young lady is a slap in the face to every legal immigrant who has come to this country and applied for citizenship the legal way.

If she's so wonderful why hasn't she applied for, and become a legal citizen?  Seems like she's been here long enough, and she should know the law, one would think, after all, she is a lawyer.  Her illegal parents, and her illegal a$$ should be deported for breaking our laws!   >:(
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Offline gPink

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2018, 08:42:26 AM »
Not all illegal immigrants are Islamist Extremists (or to put it another way, some of those nutters will be British born/naturalised)

2 seperate issues

So  all these people and their ancestors are native born Islanders and just happened to convert to radical islam. Got it.

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #28 on: March 16, 2018, 09:12:47 AM »
So  all these people and their ancestors are native born Islanders and just happened to convert to radical islam. Got it.

I never said all ;)

But yes there have been examples of both multi generation Brits & naturalised Brits converting
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #29 on: March 16, 2018, 10:32:05 AM »
Interesting view Mike- I actually look at this as a total failure of our democracy.

Our system (as I believe is yours) is based on citizens voting for what they want done. There are only two qualifications for an American to vote:

1) must be a citizen
2) Must have reached 'age of majority'

If people are voting who do not fall into both of these categories, then I would call it a failure of the system and therefore, a failure of democracy in the US. This is, IMO, a truly horrible situation.

The only thing that could happen to make it any worse would be to bring in 'ringers' to vote; not only those unqualified to vote in the first place but those who have a purpose, especially if that purpose supports a political agenda, in swinging a vote a certain way. Illegal Aliens vote a particular way in the US, and it is that party (faction, group, whatever you want to call it) that is pushing for them to be allowed to vote.... of course. If we are going to do that, why not just grab a dictator and be done with all the effort and mechanics of putting on a show that looks like democracy?

But then again, in a sane world, we would not even be discussing the incredibly absurd idea of non- citizens and especially illegal aliens voting because THEY WOULD BE IN BRACELETS (HANDCUFFS) ON THEIR WAY TO THE INTERNATIONAL LINE WHERE THEY WOULD BE GENTLY PRODDED THROUGH A ONE- WAY GATE.

I like other motorcycle riders / owners generally. Not wild about motorcycle thieves though. I feel the same way about immigrants and illegal aliens I guess.

Brian

True, will think of a better way of wording it but meanwhile being more specific:


This particular young lady sounds like a big positive vote for democracy and the system  in the USA.

First person in her family ever to graduate from College and being so high profile I would imagine she has followed due process and applied for PD to allow her to stay regardless of her parents transgressions in the past .
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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #30 on: March 16, 2018, 10:37:15 AM »
This particular young lady sounds like a big positive vote for democracy and the system  in the USA.

Not to me. She's here illegally. She's a trespasser. If a group of 20 people break into your home and live there while you're on vacation, but they do a good job of keeping your house clean while you're away, is that OK? Can they keep living there when you get home?



On a different but similar note: So I'm sitting in a bar across from two very large women and I say, "Cool accents. Are you two from Scotland?" One yells back, "It's WALES YOU IDIOT!" I say, "OK so you are two whales from Scotland?"

Offline Nosmo

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #31 on: March 16, 2018, 10:48:38 AM »
The U.S. contributes to our own problems with conflicting laws and regulations.  Since non-citizens can serve in the military, it gives people room to argue that, if someone can fight and die for the U.S., then they should be able to do all other things that citizens can do.  That's a question I don't have an answer for, but it does contribute to a "gray area" in immigrants' status.

https://www.thebalance.com/can-a-non-u-s-citizen-join-the-united-states-military-3354092
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #32 on: March 16, 2018, 11:14:35 AM »
The U.S. contributes to our own problems with conflicting laws and regulations.  Since non-citizens can serve in the military, it gives people room to argue that, if someone can fight and die for the U.S., then they should be able to do all other things that citizens can do.  That's a question I don't have an answer for, but it does contribute to a "gray area" in immigrants' status.

https://www.thebalance.com/can-a-non-u-s-citizen-join-the-united-states-military-3354092

Just to clarify, that's legal Immigrants on non Citizen status that can serve in some capacities.

Illegal immigrants ae still excluded (unless part of DACA which this young lady has had rejected initially)
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2018, 12:49:37 PM »
Again, not ILLEGAL aliens. Illegal aliens should not be doing anything here except looking for the nearest exit.

You are talking about legal aliens of one type or another, and that is fine with me, and I think, most Americans. A 'green' card, a visa, permanent resident status, diplomatic posting, a work visa.... there are many ways to be in the US legally while NOT being a citizen and no one I know is opposed to that.

Brian

The U.S. contributes to our own problems with conflicting laws and regulations.  Since non-citizens can serve in the military, it gives people room to argue that, if someone can fight and die for the U.S., then they should be able to do all other things that citizens can do.  That's a question I don't have an answer for, but it does contribute to a "gray area" in immigrants' status.

https://www.thebalance.com/can-a-non-u-s-citizen-join-the-united-states-military-3354092
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Offline Conniesaki

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #34 on: March 16, 2018, 01:00:26 PM »
The U.S. contributes to our own problems with conflicting laws and regulations.  Since non-citizens can serve in the military, it gives people room to argue that, if someone can fight and die for the U.S., then they should be able to do all other things that citizens can do.  That's a question I don't have an answer for, but it does contribute to a "gray area" in immigrants' status.

https://www.thebalance.com/can-a-non-u-s-citizen-join-the-united-states-military-3354092

"Can" fight and die. Don't have to.


I don't actually know why our military would let non-citizens fight. How do we even know which side they're really on? (not that becoming a citizen guarantees a person is on our side, but it sure seems like a better indicator than somebody who isn't a citizen)

Offline maxtog

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #35 on: March 16, 2018, 04:02:30 PM »
I don't actually know why our military would let non-citizens fight.

It does seem rather bizarre to me, and I certainly don't support it, myself.  Are they THAT desperate to have people enlist??
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #36 on: March 16, 2018, 04:45:08 PM »
It does seem rather bizarre to me, and I certainly don't support it, myself.  Are they THAT desperate to have people enlist??
of the 195  countries in the world there's olya relatively small number that allow foreigners to serve in their Military


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_militaries_that_recruit_foreigners#Z
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #37 on: March 16, 2018, 04:47:41 PM »
I do not know why either but they do. In fact, military service as a LEGAL alien is a pathway to citizenship. My F-I-L gained US citizenship by serving 2 yrs. in the US Army and a non- US citizen (but legal resident!).

Brian


"Can" fight and die. Don't have to.


I don't actually know why our military would let non-citizens fight. How do we even know which side they're really on? (not that becoming a citizen guarantees a person is on our side, but it sure seems like a better indicator than somebody who isn't a citizen)
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #38 on: March 16, 2018, 04:58:44 PM »
but you have due process that allows varying methods of allowing illegal immigrants to legalise their status.


Whilst they are following those due processes they are allowed to stay and if State law allows even hold official positions.

All done by the Great American Rule Book ;)


Only once they have exhausted the relevant d process are they liable to deportation.

Similar sort of thing happens in a lot of countries


Side note:

The USA is more like the EU now that I think about it.

A ragtag collection of countries/states with their own legislations which may/may not be at odds with the higher level legislations.

Califormia (as I understand it) deliberately changed their laws to **** off Trump




Again, not ILLEGAL aliens. Illegal aliens should not be doing anything here except looking for the nearest exit.

You are talking about legal aliens of one type or another, and that is fine with me, and I think, most Americans. A 'green' card, a visa, permanent resident status, diplomatic posting, a work visa.... there are many ways to be in the US legally while NOT being a citizen and no one I know is opposed to that.

Brian
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Offline gPink

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Re: This is a proverbial bridge too far......
« Reply #39 on: March 16, 2018, 05:51:28 PM »
but you have due process that allows varying methods of allowing illegal immigrants to legalise their status.
Whilst they are following those due processes they are allowed to stay and if State law allows even hold official positions.
All done by the Great American Rule Book ;)
Only once they have exhausted the relevant d process are they liable to deportation.
Similar sort of thing happens in a lot of countries

Side note:

The USA is more like the EU now that I think about it.
A ragtag collection of countries/states with their own legislations which may/may not be at odds with the higher level legislations.

Califormia (as I understand it) deliberately changed their laws to **** off Trump


Their laws are unconstitutional as immigration and border security are within the purview of the Fedgov.