Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: Jet86 on January 18, 2014, 06:06:23 PM
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Carb 1 is leaking Black oil sticky stuff, I know i need a gasket but why is it leaking sticky oil, I Did not over oil my air filter so where is it coming from? its been leaking a few drops a month for about a year now but its only getting worse as i knew it would.
bike still runs good but i don't see how with sticky oil in #1 carb bowl.
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Where is the leaking fluid coming from? Is it coming out of the drain hole on the bottom of the float bowl or from the parting surface between the bowl and upper carb body? I'm suspicious that it could be the float bowl rubber seal dissolving. Were your carbs ever reassembled using aftermarket kits? If so, the seals might be made of substandard material. That, mixed with leaking gasoline, might resemble a thick, sticky oil.
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I have never removed the carbs in the 5+ years of ownership, the only "Record" i have says R&R in 1992 that was in the service manual :o
the bike is on the side stand nearly 100% of the time when I'm not riding it, it's leaking from the corner of gasket or whats left of it so you very well could be right. i can't remove the carbs where i live but maybe i can get the gasket from murph and remove the bowl to replace it.
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Sounds to me like the bowl gasket is breaking down and leaking out black rubber/gas goo.....
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Dang looks like Murph only has after market gaskets and kits. are they worthy?
I think Ron Ayers has oem but a bit pricy.
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Sounds more like the crankcase breather pipe that connects to the bottom of the air-box has come loose and is misting the carb with oil vapour.
It's a right angle rubber tube and they are easily dislodged.
If the oil is inside the carb bowl then you need to pull them asap.
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even so it still should not be leaking around the carb and now I'm worried the float needle could be dissolving to, is it possible to replace both without removing the carbs.
as i said i really don't wont to remove the carbs, i have no where to work on it as i live in apartment,
well i do have a small balcony but i have never worked on carbs befor other then from an old KZ-400 but that was over 25 years ago and if i cant get my bike to start after working on carbs im scrood and the apartment manager will have it towed if it sits to long.
another thing is if i do remove the carbs firts i need to have new air box boots and might as well throw in new throttle cable.
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This vid might help. there's also one on installation, too HTH, Steve
Carb Removal Concours ZG1000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aLl9SnKZW4U#ws)
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Thanks Steve, i have seen all your vids and will be watching them again, do you have any showing how to break the carbs down and cleaning because thats where i will need more help. I really would like to get rid of the 2k rpm stumble thats been with the bike since i got it.
I think I'm gonna buy the full carb kit from murph and new air boots and throttle cables.
i have a big mop bucket i can fill with carb cleaner and soak the carbs in.
I will start the project in three weeks as thats when i will have the money for all the parts but i have come to the conclusion that i cannot put this off any longer, the carbs are very dirty and ugly and the air boots are like cement.
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I don't have vids on the carb service work because that's the work I do in house when guys send their carbs to me. I can give you some cautionary words though. I see it's an 86. You will need to fully de-rack those carbs and replace all the fuel rail and vent orings, along with the regular bowl and pilot orings that are common to rebuild kits. the goo you're seeing is most likely the carb seals all braking down, they're very old. You'll also need to replace the fuel needles and thoroughly inspect the floats for perforations. Great caution must be taken in dealing with the slide diaphrams, carb cleaner will wreck them and improper installation will rip them rendering the carbs inoperable. Be sure to remove the pilot jets and drill out the pilot air caps and remove the pilot air needles, springs, washers and orings. Be sure all aspects of the carbs are clean - not just what you see, but all the tiny passages, which are more important than what you can visually see.
BTW, the 2k stumble is common to the stock jetting. It made me crazy, so that's why I spent so much time developing new jetting.
And a final word of caution - the most expensive carbs I have ever repaired - and we're talking several sets here - have been from home guys trying to do their own carbs. It's not rocket science, but with carb work the devil is in the details. I fear to say a guy who has no experience on them and a mop bucket for cleaning is going to have a hard roe to hoe on this job. Not trying to scare you, but pay great attention to even the slightest of details, or you'll cost yourself alot more than you think you're going to save. I have done many many sets from bikes that have sat for years because the bike was rendered useless from a home carb job. HTH, Steve
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even so it still should not be leaking around the carb and now I'm worried the float needle could be dissolving to, is it possible to replace both without removing the carbs.
If you have to ask the above, you cannot afford to do your own carbbies. While you are at Ayers, check the price on a slide diaphragm. There are four of them.
Shoodaben charges $300 + for extra parts. For this, you get carbies back that are properly and thoroughly cleaned inside and out, his proprietary jet kit to remove the stumble, over flow tubes, and everything adjusted and tested to be perfect.
Some tasks are just much better performed by experts. Carburetion and heart surgery come to mind.
To me, it's a no-brainer.
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I agree with SteveJ above. I have not used SISF Steve's carb services because I have the capability to do my own. (But I do have his 2minute mod and his 7th gear mod and his cam gear reset kits). But it took me four round-trips off/on the bike to get it all done, and I have been a mechanic all my life, have a good place to work, all the tools, a good stand to hold the carbs when setting float levels, carb sync tool, etc. Judging from what others have said, and knowing what a pain in the butt it is to get carbs GOOD and CLEAN, and install drain tubes, etc., you'll probably spend more in time and effort and tools and chemicals and frustrations than what it would cost to just send them to Steve.
Jet86, I don't know your money situation, but if I had to go through all that razz-ma-tazz and work in my apartment, I'd consider the "let Steve do it" option, if you can.
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I think all of you are right and this job is just to much for me in my current situation, i don't have the proper tools and space, and the extra parts Steve mentioned will add to the cost, for now I'm just gonna order the carb kit and use one of the gaskets to stop the leak then just start saving for the 300 and send them to steve, this is gonna take a while to save, i just hope my bike will hold up a little longer.
:hail: <-- praying not bowing lol
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I'd also like to mention that I wasn't born knowing how to do these carbs, and like Nosmo (and SteveJ) I am a mechanic with tools and facilicities. And just like them, it took me time after time after time to start to get the hang of properly rebuilding these carbs. I'm no different than anyone else in that regard. Steve
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At $300 labor, Steve is probably paying himself on the order of $15 an hour, assuming he has a pretty healthy number of carbs coming in to help offset overhead.
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At $300 labor, Steve is probably paying himself on the order of $15 an hour, assuming he has a pretty healthy number of carbs coming in to help offset overhead.
Ha - I've got this job down, and all the tools, including a 26 litre ultrasonic tank. I can do 3 sets a day, and they'll be perfect. Steve
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Yup, and my fear is doing it myself i would probably have to take them right back off and do it all over again and hope i get it right,
I know Steve will get them right the first time, i will have 200 in three weeks so i'm working on it 8)
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Oh can you explain just a little about what the ultrasonic tank does? it sounds cool 8)
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This guy has an amazing amount of information, including stuff on the ultrasonic -- note he isn't using the $80 Harbor Freight unit:
http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/ultrasonic_carburetor_cleaning_v7.swf (http://www.motorcycleproject.com/motorcycle/text/ultrasonic_carburetor_cleaning_v7.swf)
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I'd say my experience mimics his. I disassemble the carbs before they go in the ultrasonic, and then flush with carb cleaner when the parts come out so i can physically see all the passages flowing. I have reduntant proceedures for the entire job just to insure nothing escapes me. It's the only way I can be 100% sure that the carbs will function as intended when I ship them back. Steve
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I think the answer will be yes but when you send carbs back out are they plug&play as in install and start enjoying the ride?
If they need sync i know a guy who can do it but if the bike runs better when i put the carbs back on then why bother, right now the bike is actully running pretty dang good considering.
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I think the answer will be yes but when you send carbs back out are they plug&play as in install and start enjoying the ride?
If they need sync i know a guy who can do it but if the bike runs better when i put the carbs back on then why bother, right now the bike is actully running pretty dang good considering.
I bench sync, they'll be very close, but carbs always need to be synced on the bike they're running on. Keep in mind that you can learn about the valves during syncing - low vacuum in any individual cylinder can be tight valves. Steve
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Thanks for the tip, i last adjusted valves 13k ago so i will keep this in mind.
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right now the bike is actully running pretty dang good considering.
Don't waste your time. Do it all at once. Assuming you are sending them to SISF, and its "running well" at the moment and not leaving a puddle on the ground, I wouldn't do a thing other than save my money. Any parts you buy other than new air boots and cable will probably be wasted. You will have to to pull the carbs out to get to the bowls out to replace the bowl o-rings (most-likely the bowl screws will be destroyed if you don't pull the carbs). If your air boots are hardened, you will need them before you put the carbs back in unless you have two pet gorillas and a heat gun for assistance. As for syncing, I would bet when the carbs come back they are extemely close to being synced and they will run great out of the box as long as they are not abused when they are re-installed. I little adjustment tweak later from a friend wouldn't hurt.
When you do take the carbs out it is also a great time to clean and inspect the airbox for cracks. Quite a few have been noted to have a crack on the front bottom seam. It is repairable with RTV (and sheet metal with pop rivets if you wish for extra insurance) to make it air tight again. If you need to do this, clean it well (brake-clean) so the RTV will stick. Also a good time to add block-off plates and also block the hole in the airbox where the hose goes thru.
You can adjust the valves while the carbs are with SISF.
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I already have blockoff plates and stick coils, the first thing im gonna buy is new air boots and throttle cables and one bowl gasket just in case i have no choice like if it starts leaking real bad.