lost power, chain noise?, wont run

[rrman1]

dumped all fuel from tank and carbs. filled w fresh fuel. got bike running by spraying start fluid and carb cleaner in air box. it will run as long as you do this. kept it running several minutes this way. it started running w/o the spraying. rode bike two days total 200 plus miles.  each day it made loud noise when start button pressed like hammer hitting on side of engine. then it would crank and run pretty good, but not as smooth as it should.  now when start is pressed, engine will not turn over at all.  battery is charged.   could a cylinder full of fuel cause this?  starter is trying to turn engine but engine wont move.  could cylinder full of fuel cause the hammering sound when starting?  thanks for help.

[Daytona_Mike]

dumped all fuel from tank and carbs. filled w fresh fuel. got bike running by spraying start fluid and carb cleaner in air box. it will run as long as you do this. kept it running several minutes this way. it started running w/o the spraying. rode bike two days total 200 plus miles.  each day it made loud noise when start button pressed like hammer hitting on side of engine. then it would crank and run pretty good, but not as smooth as it should.  now when start is pressed, engine will not turn over at all.  battery is charged.   could a cylinder full of fuel cause this?  starter is trying to turn engine but engine wont move.  could cylinder full of fuel cause the hammering sound when starting?  thanks for help.

Yes and dont do it again. Oh boy this does not sound good. Normally you smell fuel if a cylinder  is full.  I think something else is going on.
  Pull the spark  plugs and do a bent rod test but make sure you cover the  cylinders with a rag in case fuel shoots out (and you light it on fire all  at the same time.) See if you can turn the engine backwards with the rear wheel and in gear. Hope fully it is just a bad starter chain.

[rrman1]

forgot to mention, small amount of fuel on ground day it would not turn over. thanks for help.  will remove plugs, etc.

[Daytona_Mike]

forgot to mention, small amount of fuel on ground day it would not turn over. thanks for help.  will remove plugs, etc.

Oh boy.. now it sounds more likely it was hydro-locked. hopefully you did not bend a rod.  If you did not bend a rod- do not start it up again.
Pull the carbs off and ship them out for repairs and consider your self very very lucky.

[jettawreck]

No reply for a few days on the outcome of the rod test(s). Given the last few posts I would be surprised if there were not a couple bent rods. Keeping an engine running on ether/carb sprays is never a good idea either.

[Daytona_Mike]

I agree and have to assume the engine is most likely toast  therefore no reason to come back here to update us with  the outcome.

[rrman1]

no fuel in cylinders. bent rod test next. still wont turn over.  batty is good.

[RFH87_Connie]

You say "battery is charged", but have you inspected the connections?  Just covering all the bases.  Make sure they are fully contacting and clean, this bike likes a lot of current when starting.  Check this and piston height.

That "bang" as a bad sign though.  My red bike had it happen to it.  I got about 25k out of it before the #3 rod bearing went (which is a trait of this motor).  If you have a leaky petcock and weak float needles, gas will get by them.  If you keep the bike on the centerstand gas WILL flow into the carbs , then engine, and raise the oil level (check this too).  If you keep it on the sidestand, gas will most of the time pour onto the floor from the airbox (and maybe burn the house down).

[rrman1]

thanks for help.     #4 has bent rod.  no  fuel in cylinders, or water.  doesnt explain engine not turning does it?   what is easiest way to turn engine manually?  rolling down hill releasing clutch no help, short distance only. 

[RFH87_Connie]

... doesnt explain engine not turning does it?

Sorry for your loss, but actually, it does.  How much is it off?  Most likely the rod is contacting the piston skirt or the blocks piston bore hole if I remember my mechanics right.  If you spin it, you'll break things.  Also, I think it is only rods 2 and 3 that can be replaced by dropping the oil pan.  1 and 4 have too much other stuff in the way.  If you're up for a motor replacement, they can be found for around $500 on eBay.  You can do it in a weekend, or spread it out over a few weeks like I did in the evenings.  At least it gives you easy access to service a bunch of things.

[T Cro ®]

thanks for help.     #4 has bent rod.  no  fuel in cylinders, or water.  doesnt explain engine not turning does it?   what is easiest way to turn engine manually?  rolling down hill releasing clutch no help, short distance only.

With no spark plugs in have you tried putting the motor in top 6th gear and turning the rear wheel by hand?

Also removing the left side pulser cover will reveal a large hex head that you can put a wrench to; but don't put too much pressure here as if you've already busted up something on the inside then you can likely make it worse.....

With the known fact you've got a petcock fuel flow issues coupled with your statement of several starting attempts resulting in a loud bang; you've damaged your motor and if your not well versed in mechanics you need to turn this over to a better hand...

[jettawreck]

If you consider buying a replacement engine, be careful. Make sure it also doesn't have bent rod(s). Without being able to test it, there is always a risk, even from a running bike.

[Daytona_Mike]

thanks for help.     #4 has bent rod.  no  fuel in cylinders, or water.  doesnt explain engine not turning does it?   what is easiest way to turn engine manually?  rolling down hill releasing clutch no help, short distance only.

I told you how to turn the engine over early on in one of my first posts.
 Pull the spark  plugs and do a bent rod test but make sure you cover the  cylinders with a rag in case fuel shoots out (and you light it on fire all  at the same time.) See if you can turn the engine backwards with the rear wheel and in gear.

You do realize that engine is pretty much a paper weight now.  Toast! or  Bricked! or many other words that mean 'Bye bye motor'
You could try and repair it but the easier and better and cheaper choice is usually to just try and find a replacement but make sure you dont buy another engine that also has a bent rod. 

I hope others learn from your experience. Overflow tubes are the only real prevention from bending a rod.
That engine had 7,500 miles on it. That is a darn shame.

[rrman1]

     many thanks to  all who have helped me with my bike.
     can you explain how the bike  was running when i parked it and the next time i tried to crank it, it would not turn over at all?  dont recall any noises during this attempt to crank.          also would like to prevent re-occurance with next engine. any advice.    what is the common cause of hydrolock in this engine, which i take it is not uncommon?      also, how does a tank of bad gas contribute?     thanks.

[kzz1king]

Floats gets stuck and petcock fails  to shut off. Unlike your old Z1 these carbs do not have overflow tubes in the bowls so the gas runs right into the cylinder.You hit the starter and the rod is bent. Having the carbs modded to overflow tubes eliminates that possibility.
Wayne
PS I have a 74 Z

[Daytona_Mike]

Floats gets stuck and petcock fails  to shut off. Unlike your old Z1 these carbs do not have overflow tubes in the bowls so the gas runs right into the cylinder.You hit the starter and the rod is bent. Having the carbs modded to overflow tubes eliminates that possibility.
Wayne
PS I have a 74 Z

There is your answer.
I already answered your  prevention question before you asked it.  Can you not see or read any of my posts?
Overflow tubes are the only real prevention from bending a rod.

[rrman1]

to  kzz1king..............thanks for the explanation.

[rrman1]

sounds like the carbs were designed by an idiot.

[LessPaul]

I believe it was a regulatory thing. EPA didn't want raw gas being possibly dumped, so Ma Kaw sewed up the overflow nipples.

[T Cro ®]

I believe it was a regulatory thing. EPA didn't want raw gas being possibly dumped, so Ma Kaw sewed up the overflow nipples.

All but spot on... In effort to meet EPA regs the evaporation factor needed to be omitted.... As long as all is working properly no harm no fowl but with age many factors change and sadly many motors suffered for it....

Go easy boys the realization of knowing you likely fubar'ed your own engine is a bitter pill to swallow....