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Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: maxtog on July 21, 2015, 06:40:11 PM

Title: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 21, 2015, 06:40:11 PM
Posted as a reply here to not further contaminate another thread

Way off topic, but not even sure there is really any point to "marriage" anymore.

You must be one of dem dare heterosexual haters ( I mean you are a heterosexual who hates.... not a person who hates heterosexuals)....

Sorry, I just could not resist.  :rotflmao:

Brian

No, I don't hate (disclaimer- nor have I ever been married).  Just an observation.  Based on....

I just see almost every marriage fail.  And with each generation it seems to get more prevalent.  Then it seems a majority of people think that having children outside of marriage is just fine because they are "not ready for marriage" or "marriage is too much commitment"????  (Yet children are not?).  I see couples that live together for 20+ years but never marry.  I see more and more people who marry that never have children, keep separate bank accounts, register everything in separate names, file taxes separately, etc.   Prenuptial agreements to make sure the finances are simpler when the more-certain-than-not divorce comes.  More women who don't want to take their husband's last names.   Others use ridiculously complex compound names (certainly nothing new, but seemingly more popular).  I even see CHILDREN with compound last names (yeah, that makes sense- then when the children get married, their children can have FOUR last names?).  Now marriage is redefined as not just man-woman, but also man-man or woman-woman.  Maybe threesomes are next?  Theoretically, you can gain all (or almost all) the same legal protections and functions of marriage without marriage through medical and financial powers of attorney, joint ownerships, wills, and other forms.  Divorces are easier and easier, faster and simpler.  Theoretically/fairly, married people shouldn't have any more rights or privileges compared people who don't- so that is another factor.  Then there are the people that get married when they shouldn't or get and then stay married for the wrong reasons when things are long gone.

Like I said, I don't even see the point anymore.  Call me jaded!  And yes, of course, my parents were divorced (at my age 6).  And my mother married and divorced twice more after that.

Maybe marriage is obsolete?
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: turbojoe78 on July 21, 2015, 08:00:06 PM
Posted as a reply here to not further contaminate another thread


Maybe marriage is obsolete?

Not to me.

I was married for 10 years the first time and after 9 of those years my wife didn't want to be married anymore.

Went 8 years single and got engaged and then married again and it's been 10+ years with 2 great stepdaughters and my wonderful 8 year old little girl.

My 28 year old daughter has been married for 2 1/2 years with a 6 year old son and 2 year old daughter.

Marriage is not obsolete to her either.  YMMV
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 21, 2015, 09:56:50 PM
Tried marriage once. Nothing against it, but man wow I love single life!  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: gPink on July 22, 2015, 03:43:11 AM
A wise man once said 'Son, the best you can do in life is to have a lot of money, a good dog and live next to a whorehouse.'
YMMV
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 22, 2015, 03:46:07 AM
30 years for me.  Parents are closing in on 60 years.

I agree though that marriage is no longer the vows that most cited at the ceremony. 

It would be interesting to know when and why the tax breaks for marriage started.

My wife and I are partners and a team.  We have each others backs.  But we don't have to spend every moment together, nor do we rely on each other as our sole source of happiness. 'Whoa, easy there boy's ;)
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: MichiGlenn on July 22, 2015, 04:03:41 AM
Closing in on 28 years of marriage, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  We've struggled through the lows together, celebrated the highs together, prayed together and cried together.  Having that kind of a friend/partner/lover/encourager is truly a blessing. 
Our society has devalued the committed love in favor of cheap flings, and is poorer for it.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: tweeter55 on July 22, 2015, 04:38:02 AM
Closing in on 28 years of marriage, and I wouldn't have it any other way.  We've struggled through the lows together, celebrated the highs together, prayed together and cried together.  Having that kind of a friend/partner/lover/encourager is truly a blessing. 
Our society has devalued the committed love in favor of cheap flings, and is poorer for it.
+1
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 22, 2015, 04:39:00 AM
38 years for me..wouldn't have it any other way.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Conrad on July 22, 2015, 04:48:34 AM
I met my wife in 1975 and married her in 1977 and we're still together and happy.

As Twowheeladdict said, we're partners and a team, a company if you will.  :)
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: timsatx on July 22, 2015, 06:52:44 AM
25 years for me. There have been tough times, especially in the beginning as my wife had been abused in her previous relationship. And it was fast for us so we didn't really get a chance to get to know each other well. As time went on it got much better. We too have been thru the highs and lows together and we are both the better for it. We raised three daughters (none were mine biologically) and out special needs son. Do we still have issues from time to time, sure, what couple doesn't, but at least it does devolve into some kind of vitriolic argument. More often than not we just walk away and let it blow over which is fine with me. I hate fighting with her.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Rhino on July 22, 2015, 10:05:45 AM
39 years for me this September. Ups and downs like everything else. But among other benefits I have 3 great kids (including one that is my best riding partner with an FJR) and 5 fantastic grand kids. I hear what your saying Max but it does work out for some of us.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: just gone on July 22, 2015, 11:07:32 AM
It would be interesting to know when and why the tax breaks for marriage started.

It's been a while since we married, but our taxes went up right after we got hitched. I think there are some financial advantages for sure, housing, health insurance, utilities (depending on who is winning the household thermostat war that goes on continuously in mine) but taxes? I'm not sure we've saved anything there by getting married. Except for health insurance I don't think we saved anymore than if we just lived together, probably a lot less.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: B.D.F. on July 22, 2015, 11:48:21 AM
Sideways ONTOPIC:

I have a cousin who liked to live in a heated house that he could afford. His wife liked to live in a heated house and did not concern herself with financial matters. Hijinks ensued for several rounds with no clear winner.

Then he put in a second thermostat on the same wall, a few feet away. He wired the second thermostat and disconnected the original thermostat. He set the second thermostat for a combination of comfort / economy while his wife continued to set the first thermostat for a combination of comfort / insanity. She never noticed the other thermostat nor did she notice that the house was not at the temperature she had set but was happy just seeing the little red pointer close to 80F apparently.

This is where I would say they both lived happily ever after but alas, that did not happen. However, they never did have another conflict or issue of any kind with the heating / cooling of the house. The End.

Brian

It's been a while since we married, but our taxes went up right after we got hitched. I think there are some financial advantages for sure, housing, health insurance, utilities (depending on who is winning the household thermostat war that goes on continuously in mine) but taxes? I'm not sure we've saved anything there by getting married. Except for health insurance I don't think we saved anymore than if we just lived together, probably a lot less.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Rhino on July 22, 2015, 01:12:39 PM
Sideways ONTOPIC:

I have a cousin who liked to live in a heated house that he could afford. His wife liked to live in a heated house and did not concern herself with financial matters. Hijinks ensued for several rounds with no clear winner.

Then he put in a second thermostat on the same wall, a few feet away. He wired the second thermostat and disconnected the original thermostat. He set the second thermostat for a combination of comfort / economy while his wife continued to set the first thermostat for a combination of comfort / insanity. She never noticed the other thermostat nor did she notice that the house was not at the temperature she had set but was happy just seeing the little red pointer close to 80F apparently.

This is where I would say they both lived happily ever after but alas, that did not happen. However, they never did have another conflict or issue of any kind with the heating / cooling of the house. The End.

Brian

Thought about doing exactly that although my plan was to have the second, real thermostat less obvious. My wife uses a thermostat as a switch. if she is cold, she sets it to 85 until she is hot then she sets it to 55 until she is cold. Rinse, repeat, I get the bill.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: BackInTheSaddle on July 22, 2015, 02:36:03 PM
I am a big fan and have had 27 years of marital bliss - been married for 43  ;)
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 22, 2015, 02:55:45 PM
Well, it is certainly nice to see all the positive stories :)   Makes one think not all is so bad.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: just gone on July 22, 2015, 03:26:37 PM
My wife uses a thermostat as a switch. if she is cold, she sets it to 85 until she is hot then she sets it to 55 until she is cold. Rinse, repeat, I get the bill.

So, I'm not alone! Here I thought it was just my wife that didn't understand how thermostats are supposed to work.
I guess I lucked out as at least my wife pays half the bill. Probably why we are still married. Had everything financially combined until the end of our third year of marriage, separated our money and split the bills. Marital bliss?..no...but we are still married and that wasn't going to happen the way we were going back then.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 23, 2015, 12:30:42 AM
So, I'm not alone! Here I thought it was just my wife that didn't understand how thermostats are supposed to work.

You are far from alone.   It also isn't just a female thing.  I am amazed at how many people don't understand how thermostats work and are supposed to be used.  For example, I would estimate that perhaps as high as 80% of people think that setting it colder than the temp they want will make it colder faster.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Conrad on July 23, 2015, 04:57:03 AM
That's funny stuff about the thermostats! My wife doesn't understand the principal behind them either. I've tried and tired to explain it to her but her eyes just glaze over and I'm talking to myself.

No honey, it doesn't heat the house faster if you turn it up to 85.    ::)
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 23, 2015, 05:37:53 AM

No honey, it doesn't heat the house faster if you turn it up to 85.    ::)

It does if you have a heat pump and you activate the second switch that turns the electric heat strips on.   :o  LOL! 

My wife is the one who pays the utilities.  That cured her of wanting to run around in shorts in the winter, and sweaters in the summer. 
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 23, 2015, 06:13:11 AM
Back on topic, thermostats and marriage are great, but so is single life  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: VirginiaJim on July 23, 2015, 06:27:38 AM
Until you get old...
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: timsatx on July 23, 2015, 09:14:27 AM
That's a real no sheeter right there.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: wally_games on July 23, 2015, 11:38:36 AM
I married first time when I was 20. Married about 8 years, two kids. For reasons I don't really care to discuss in a public forum, that one ended.

I married again (with one stepson) and am about to reach the 28 year mark (with one college graduate that's ours). We have always shared bank accounts and bills. It's our money, our house, our thermostat, etc. We discuss potential purchases and we don't buy anything that I don't get her permission on (8)). Over the years we've gone through her making the most money for awhile, but now I do. Either way, it's still OUR money so we spend it to our mutual benefit.

Oh, and as far as that thermostat, she defers to my judgment almost 100% of the time and I just toss her a throw blanket when she asks me for one (year round).
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 23, 2015, 02:39:28 PM
Until you get old...

:(  True
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: gPink on July 23, 2015, 05:35:14 PM
Retire to the Philippines. Your money will go farther, too.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 26, 2015, 09:21:34 PM
Why would I want to marry when I get older? Serious question. I've been thinking when I'm older I should settle down and marry but then I can't think of why I would do that?

If I don't man-up and marry Teressa, one day she may bail on me though.

Thus far she's smiling though  ;D

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/Connie%2014/DSC_1448.jpg)
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Ghost Rider 2 on July 27, 2015, 04:53:09 AM
  For me 41 years next week.  Happy  YES!!  She also my riding partner we have riden thousand s of miles together. Some on 1 bike.
Mostly with her riding her own. I think we have riden in 23 states so far. Joint bank account since day 1. and I never look at the thermostat.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 27, 2015, 07:29:50 PM
Why would I want to marry when I get older? Serious question. I've been thinking when I'm older I should settle down and marry but then I can't think of why I would do that?

If I don't man-up and marry Teressa, one day she may bail on me though.

Thus far she's smiling though  ;D

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/Connie%2014/DSC_1448.jpg)

Again serious question and per topic what's the point ;D
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Strawboss on July 27, 2015, 07:58:18 PM
Well, recently, in Ohio, all medical benefits have been cancelled to unmarried couples, so it may be an economic one for some. ;D
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 27, 2015, 08:29:54 PM
Well, recently, in Ohio, all medical benefits have been cancelled to unmarried couples, so it may be an economic one for some. ;D

My company covers my medical no matter what state I reside in  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Strawboss on July 27, 2015, 08:35:41 PM
That may very well change with the recent Supreme Court ruling.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 27, 2015, 09:15:12 PM
That may very well change with the recent Supreme Court ruling.

So single people won't have health insurance? ? Dude that's funny!
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 27, 2015, 09:20:22 PM
Why would I want to marry when I get older? Serious question. I've been thinking when I'm older I should settle down and marry but then I can't think of why I would do that?

If I don't man-up and marry Teressa, one day she may bail on me though.

Thus far she's smiling though  ;D

(http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j180/stevewfl/Connie%2014/DSC_1448.jpg)

Back on topic of what's the point, my question was serious please help me understand  ;D
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Strawboss on July 27, 2015, 09:29:14 PM
The question was what is the point of getting married, what I said was now people who lived together now will have to get married to get benefits, a point to think about when asking about whether to get married or not. If 2 people choose not to get married, they can get benefits as single people, but it will cost a lot more than if they were married. I thought the point was very relevant and I thought it was certainly something to think about in coming months. BTW, I lived with my wife for 4 years before getting married in 1992 and type of benefits, health, dental, eyes, car, house, etc... was far less expensive married than as 2 single people.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: stevewfl on July 27, 2015, 10:17:26 PM
Oh OK, understood thanks. I don't live with her, plus I don't think saving a few bux on rent and benefits is the reason I'd marry is why I missed the point, my bad. Other than as a business proposition for cheaper health care is there a point?
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: just gone on July 27, 2015, 11:38:24 PM
The question was what is the point of getting married, what I said was now people who lived together now will have to get married to get benefits, a point to think about when asking about whether to get married or not. If 2 people choose not to get married, they can get benefits as single people, but it will cost a lot more than if they were married. I thought the point was very relevant and I thought it was certainly something to think about in coming months. BTW, I lived with my wife for 4 years before getting married in 1992 and type of benefits, health, dental, eyes, car, house, etc... was far less expensive married than as 2 single people.

Could you explain to me how the house car and etc. became cheaper by being married versus just living together? None of that happened to me when I married. The only thing I noticed was that the income taxes went up immediately.

I'm not sure there is much benefit anymore. I guess perhaps the auto insurance might be better, but I'm not sure that marriage is required since they refer to it as a multi-car household or multi-car discount. Perhaps just a common address is all that is needed.  Living together would save the same amount on home (be it rent split or dual ownership of a home neither requires marriage) utilities etc all the same regardless of marriage. Until recently the health insurance benefits saved money, but with Obama Care?..maybe not. If one person in a live together relationship has good insurance and pay, the other person may qualify for partial government funding of their health insurance and they may end up paying less than what the primary earner would pay extra to get family coverage. Even if children are in the mix (for health coverage purposes) I think only dependency is needed for them to be covered not marriage. The health insurance savings question could go either way as to which saves more money, but it would vary on each situation and wouldn't really be all that much savings to get married for I would think. I'm probably missing something, but it seems that only making health care decisions for another (unable to do so for themselves) and the rare family only access in medical crisis are the advantages now, and with enough forethought those might be served with powers of attorney documents instead of a marriage certificate. If I recall correctly, older folks are not getting married, but rather living together in many cases so that Social security doesn't lower their benefits.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Rembrant on July 28, 2015, 04:28:27 AM

No, I don't hate (disclaimer- nor have I ever been married).  Just an observation.  Based on....

I just see almost every marriage fail.  And with each generation it seems to get more prevalent.

My mother told me a long time ago, that there are two main reasons that marriages fail: Disagreements over money and/or children.
Not that there's anything wrong with money OR children, but they both become things to fight over. (My wife and I both came from divorces that happened when were too young to remember)

I don't think I thought much of her comments at the time, but all these years later, what she said does appear to be true. I can only comment on what I see and what I'm exposed to in my little world of course;). A good friend of mine in his mid-30's is currently going through a really nasty separation...three young children, and no money. He is an absolutely fantastic father (from the little I see) but he's starting down a very difficult road.

I have no idea about what the laws are in the states...but here in Canada...it doesn't really matter whether a couple is married or not. Once two people are living together...according to every legal aspect, they ARE married.

The few couples that we know that are not married, are simply not married due to the costs involved. A wedding costs money.

The question was what is the point of getting married, what I said was now people who lived together now will have to get married to get benefits, a point to think about when asking about whether to get married or not.

That's interesting...

Are couples having to get married to get family medical insurance?

Of course things are different here in Canada with our so-called "free" healthcare, but we still do have separate medical / health insurance that we can buy through our employers or 3rd party...but there's no cost savings in being married. The price is the price, per person. I pay about $235/month for both my wife and I, and it covers all the extra stuff that our national healthcare program doesn't cover...dental, eye care, short and long term disability, etc.

My wife and I have been together for 18 years, and married for 16. We had a quick and dirty cheap JOP wedding that cost next to nothing. For me...I wouldn't necessarily say what is the point of getting married, but I would say hat is the point of a big massive expensive wedding when the money can usually be better used elsewhere.

Rem

Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 28, 2015, 11:44:41 AM
Oh OK, understood thanks. I don't live with her, plus I don't think saving a few bux on rent and benefits is the reason I'd marry is why I missed the point, my bad. Other than as a business proposition for cheaper health care is there a point?

Other than the business proposition, the only point of getting married is showing that you are willing to commit to a monogamous life with one person through all the good and all the bad.  Today, marriage has lost that commitment.  So, other than doing it because you are being faithful to your God, there is no reason to get married. 
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: twowheeladdict on July 28, 2015, 11:50:54 AM

The few couples that we know that are not married, are simply not married due to the costs involved. A wedding costs money.



My wife and I have been together for 18 years, and married for 16. We had a quick and dirty cheap JOP wedding that cost next to nothing. For me...I wouldn't necessarily say what is the point of getting married, but I would say hat is the point of a big massive expensive wedding when the money can usually be better used elsewhere.

Rem

You had a next to nothing cost wedding.  Sounds like your friends are just using the cost as an excuse.  Many people have commitment issues.  There are times when I am not fun to live with.  There are times when my wife is not fun to live with.  If one of us had a major illness to battle, it could wipe out both our retirement plans.  If you are single, you only have to think about you, and your decisions only affect you.  Marriage can be too much responsibility for some folks.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: B.D.F. on July 28, 2015, 01:16:36 PM
Of course I am not sure how things are in Canada but yes, there are legal changes, benefits and rights extended to married people in the US that often do not apply to 'a couple' in a non- married situation.

When married in the US, the spouses both become the nearest 'next of kin' of each other, able to make health care choices, inherent property (automatically, just by being married) and various other advantages. A spouse cannot be compelled to testify against a spouse but that does not in any way apply to people who have or are acting as a couple. There are US Gov't 'death benefits' given to a spouse but not any other 'couple'. A spouse (with some restrictions but speaking generally here) can and often does get the Social Security pension of the spouse that dies first, and for the rest of the living spouse's life; that does not apply to a [ non- married couple]. These and quite a few other issues are why the gay marriage issue was.... well, such an issue. It is also why the issue really could not have been decided any other way than it was by the US Supreme Court a little while ago: our Constitution provides for "equal protection under the law" (twice, in the 5th and 14th amendments) and so as married couples are given certain protections (which include privileges and advantages by the way), then same- sex couples who could not get married, or have their married status [not recognized] in some states were being denied those 'equal protections'.

Again, strictly from the legal point of view, reading 'The Big Book of Rules' (the Constitution) that we live under, there was just no other way to apply that rule in my opinion, as well as the opinions of 5 out of 9 of the Supreme Court justices.... their opinion carrying significantly greater weight, at least outside my house.  ;D  It really does not have anything to do with what a person's opinion or belief system is, it is just a matter of following our own law. If, as a country, we really did not / do not want gay marriage, then we would have to change the Constitution by writing and ratifying a new amendment.

Brian


<snip>

I have no idea about what the laws are in the states...but here in Canada...it doesn't really matter whether a couple is married or not. Once two people are living together...according to every legal aspect, they ARE married.

<snip>

Are couples having to get married to get family medical insurance?

Of course things are different here in Canada with our so-called "free" healthcare, but we still do have separate medical / health insurance that we can buy through our employers or 3rd party...but there's no cost savings in being married. The price is the price, per person. I pay about $235/month for both my wife and I, and it covers all the extra stuff that our national healthcare program doesn't cover...dental, eye care, short and long term disability, etc.

<snip>

Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: Rembrant on July 28, 2015, 04:33:07 PM
You had a next to nothing cost wedding.  Sounds like your friends are just using the cost as an excuse. 

Yes...I suppose it looks like an excuse doesn't it? I was really referring to a specific couple when I said that...but these guys don't make excuses...and they don't have commitment issues either...they're just cheap...LOL. After all, some couples DO want that big expensive wedding...others not so much. 

Of course I am not sure how things are in Canada but yes, there are legal changes, benefits and rights extended to married people in the US that often do not apply to 'a couple' in a non- married situation.


Interesting stuff. I had no idea.

I took a look with Dr. Google to check my facts...I may have spoken too loosely...the Common Law marriage rules vary by province apparently...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common-law_marriage

I only went to read the Canadian section (about half way down) but there is some info on the US closer to the bottom. Looks like Rhode Island is one of 9 states that has some sort of common law marriage rules...

Anyway...I'm happily married...and I don't mind buying the cow even when the milk is free...lol.
I don't care much what the rest of the world does.

Hey BDF...I'll be down your way again in late Sept or Oct. I'll be in touch...I owe you some spare ribs and rice?...lol.

Rem
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: gPink on July 28, 2015, 04:36:47 PM
You better hope the cow doesn't read the forum....just sayin
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 28, 2015, 04:48:43 PM
My mother told me a long time ago, that there are two main reasons that marriages fail: Disagreements over money and/or children.
Not that there's anything wrong with money OR children, but they both become things to fight over. (My wife and I both came from divorces that happened when were too young to remember)

I don't think I thought much of her comments at the time, but all these years later, what she said does appear to be true.

There are other main reasons too- infidelity and control issues.  From what I have seen, those seem to be just as prevalent.

Quote
I have no idea about what the laws are in the states...but here in Canada...it doesn't really matter whether a couple is married or not. Once two people are living together...according to every legal aspect, they ARE married.

Indeed.  Canada is different.  And from what I understand, Quebec is even MORE different... to the point of marriage almost being irrelevant.

Quote
The few couples that we know that are not married, are simply not married due to the costs involved. A wedding costs money.

Well, technically, from what I understand about most western countries, you don't have to have a "marriage" to be married.  It is just a license, which is a piece of paper.  You apply for a license, go in front of a Justice, and bam, married.  I think that can't cost more than a few hundred $ tops.

Quote
Are couples having to get married to get family medical insurance?

Sometimes, yes, sometimes no (as opposed to just getting singles coverage each).  It depends on the state and on the insurer.   For many, it is no cheaper being married than not.   And it really *shouldn't* be any cheaper either... there is no special, magical consideration that should make married couples less expensive to insure.

Anyway insurers often need some legal definition for what constitutes "family". At my employer and with their plans, if you want to cover someone else that lives with you, they just be "direct family", which they define as your children and/or spouse.

What Strawboss said is the other major financial reason- car insurance.  Insurers are allowed to discriminate based on age, gender, and marital status; and so they do.  Why marital status?  I don't know.  Again, they have magical numbers that tell them OVERALL that married people are more responsible and better drivers.  That men are in more accidents.  That young people are many, many times more likely to have an accident (as are the very old).  However, they can't discriminate based on religion, sexual orientation, race, ethnicity, or many other factors; regardless of how good a predictor THOSE factors might be.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 28, 2015, 04:50:31 PM
Other than the business proposition, the only point of getting married is showing that you are willing to commit to a monogamous life with one person through all the good and all the bad.  Today, marriage has lost that commitment.  So, other than doing it because you are being faithful to your God, there is no reason to get married.

And, with the few unfair financial situations that we have pointed out, and a sprinkle of legal protections that can't be done otherwise (like testifying in court), you have made my point exactly for this entire thread.
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: maxtog on July 28, 2015, 05:03:18 PM
These and quite a few other issues are why the gay marriage issue was.... well, such an issue. It is also why the issue really could not have been decided any other way than it was by the US Supreme Court a little while ago: our Constitution provides for "equal protection under the law" (twice, in the 5th and 14th amendments) and so as married couples are given certain protections (which include privileges and advantages by the way), then same- sex couples who could not get married, or have their married status [not recognized] in some states were being denied those 'equal protections'.

Again, strictly from the legal point of view, reading 'The Big Book of Rules' (the Constitution) that we live under, there was just no other way to apply that rule in my opinion, as well as the opinions of 5 out of 9 of the Supreme Court justices.... their opinion carrying significantly greater weight, at least outside my house.  ;D  It really does not have anything to do with what a person's opinion or belief system is, it is just a matter of following our own law. If, as a country, we really did not / do not want gay marriage, then we would have to change the Constitution by writing and ratifying a new amendment.

I am not sure I agree.  "Marriage" is not defined nor protected in the Constitution at all.  The concept of applying laws equally is... sortof.  Disclaimer- I am not Constitutional law expert...

I have a specific right to bear arms and own a gun.  That atually *is* in the Constitution.  And my State defines how I can exercise that right.  And yet I can travel to another state and have my rights completely stripped away (for example, a concealed-carry permit).  I would hardly call that "equal protections".

"Marriage" is a made-up construct that states can define however they want (or should be able to, because powers not SPECIFICALLY listed in the Constitution as belonging to the Fed, belong to the States).  Why would a man-woman arrangement be allowed but not a man-man or woman-woman?  Because that is how it was defined.  It doesn't seem fair- but I could say that giving ANY kind of financial or legal advantage to someone who is "married" but not someone who is single is also just as unfair... it discriminates against people who are single.  It also discriminates against people who might want to have a "marriage" involving more than just 2 people.... throw religion aside and one needs to ask "why not"?

Although the country is not ready for it,  what I was saying in my first post is that perhaps the whole concept of marriage is unfair, dated, ill-defined, watered-down, becoming irrelevant, and primarily a religious domain (and I believe in STRONG separation of government and religion).
Title: Re: Marriage- what's the point?
Post by: B.D.F. on July 28, 2015, 07:46:05 PM
Oh Oh, rubbing my little hands together in anticipation! I am a lay- student of constitutional law and pay pretty close attention to quite a few of the 'rules' (the Constitution of the US, along with the amendments, which become part of the Constitution).

1) Marriage is not mentioned in the Constitution. But "equal protection under the law" is, in the fifth and fourteenth amendments. That means that any protection extended to any individual or group must be extended to all individuals or groups. If marriage between a man and a woman are afforded any 'protections', and it most certainly is, then those protections must be extended to any individuals or groups that <may> be married. It appears that the limits of marriage have now been legally extended to anyone with a 'soul', meaning homo sapiens sapiens. So marriage is not the issue, Constitutional protections are.

2) Marriage cannot be defined as whatever a state wants it to mean. That has been decided by the Supreme Court of the US at least twice now: the first time was when a pair of lesbians got married in CA, only to have their marriage effectively nullified by the state of CA when the state defined the state of marriage as a condition that can exist between 'a man and a woman'. The two women sued, and amazingly enough, the law was upheld through the CA state Supreme Court. It was appealed to the US Supreme Court, citing the fourteenth amendment, and was overturned. Again, any protections afforded <any> married persons must be extended to <all> married persons per 'equal protection under the law'.

The second time was most recently when again, the US Supreme Court struck down 'states rights' to [not recognize] same- sex marriages which were completed and remain valid in different states. As an example, if, say, Oregon recognizes same- sex marriage, then for example, say, Kentucky cannot choose to disregard that state (married) because Kentucky refuses to endorse same- sex marriage. In cases such as this, federal law trumps state law, again due to the US Constitution.

3) These rulings regarding the current usefulness / meaningfulness of marriage: It may be 'passe' or not but that does not matter at all. This is a civil liberties question, not one of morality, current thinking or anything else. Again, read the Constitution and its amendments and see if you can find a 'way out' of these rulings. It does not matter if you, I and / or anyone else likes it or not but we all have certain rights that are "inalienable" and cannot be infringed.

Lastly, careful on the 'right to bear arms'; while I agree with you on this issue, and I believe that I too have that same right (along with anyone else), we must be careful that it is more complex and convoluted that it is sometimes represented to be. You have the right to bear arms but the definition of 'arms' is very much controlled and limited. Try buying weaponized anthrax or plutonium..... not going to happen. An individual is restricted in possessing weapons of mass destruction, and there are very strict rules regarding an individuals 'right' to own many person arms, such as machine guns, guns masquerading as anything else (such as a cane or umbrella), etc., etc.. Contrary to common thought, an individual CAN own such items, up to and including artillery, but that person must have a Federal Transfer Permit and be 'allowed' to purchase / own such devices. So your 'right to bear arms' is absolutely limited, as is you right to free speech and quite a few others.

Brian

I am not sure I agree.  "Marriage" is not defined nor protected in the Constitution at all.  The concept of applying laws equally is... sortof.  Disclaimer- I am not Constitutional law expert...

I have a specific right to bear arms and own a gun.  That atually *is* in the Constitution.  And my State defines how I can exercise that right.  And yet I can travel to another state and have my rights completely stripped away (for example, a concealed-carry permit).  I would hardly call that "equal protections".

"Marriage" is a made-up construct that states can define however they want (or should be able to, because powers not SPECIFICALLY listed in the Constitution as belonging to the Fed, belong to the States).  Why would a man-woman arrangement be allowed but not a man-man or woman-woman?  Because that is how it was defined.  It doesn't seem fair- but I could say that giving ANY kind of financial or legal advantage to someone who is "married" but not someone who is single is also just as unfair... it discriminates against people who are single.  It also discriminates against people who might want to have a "marriage" involving more than just 2 people.... throw religion aside and one needs to ask "why not"?

Although the country is not ready for it,  what I was saying in my first post is that perhaps the whole concept of marriage is unfair, dated, ill-defined, watered-down, becoming irrelevant, and primarily a religious domain (and I believe in STRONG separation of government and religion).