Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: rcannon409 on August 21, 2017, 05:22:32 AM
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Guys, I don’t know if you've seen this new page on Ivans site:
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ZG1400.htm)
His tuning philosophy and approach is listed on this page on his site.
http://ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm (http://ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm)
Lots of good info here. and the engine is smooth as silk.
His Concours 14 reflash is now available. I know many of us who are using his Ninja 1000 flash have waited a long time for this.
Fueling and driveability is flawless and the engine is smooth as silk from idle up to its "new and improved" redline. Make no mistake, this bike now feels like a 1400.
Engine response is instant, silky smooth, light and revvy just as you would expect a first class tune to be.
My wife and I took the concours up to one of the local ski resorts.
It’s not much of a distance ride, but you gain elevation like crazy.
We start at my house which is 4500ft and finish at 10,500ft @ 30 miles
later. I’ve had the bike up there before with original programming, and it was about halfway a
mess at the high altitude. Especially the on/off throttle. Her helmet was
constantly smacking mine.
With Ivan’s tuning, the bike was awesome up there. Of course, power dropped off, but the
character was still there and driveability remained flawless.
Another welcome change is how the bike is in traffic.
You cannot imagine how the traffic is on the highway leading to Idaho on 8-20-17 , and the
people who are going to watch the eclipse. There’s only one road to get
to Idaho, and sadly, I had to be on it.
The fan kicks on sooner. 195 degrees on, 186, off. On the 08, that is
huge. Previously, I’ve stopped for fuel when I only had 2 gallons left,
just to cool the tank. No need for that, now. It gets warm, but I’ve
had it to the point where I was scared it would ignite when the bike was
stock."
I haven’t tested it for mileage yet because I’ve been having too much fun with it, but I will offer some mileage figures soon within the next week or so.
When discussing the Concours flash with Ivan, he informed me that it was developed with “on the road” as well as extensive time on his dyno.
More than a year was invested in this bike reverse engineering the ecus for all the generations of C14’s, as well as the purchase of a brand new 2017 model for the tuning part of it, and also borrowing a 2008 model to transfer the work into and test before offering it for sale to us.
A sizeable investment of time and money to say the least.
I don’t work for Ivan, and I pay full price for any work that he does for me.
He has been tuning motorcycles for a living for more than 30 years, and has been in many of the magazines over the years for his abilities.
After riding my ninja 1000 that he re-flashed, as well as a friend’s fz09, this is the person I choose to tune my bikes.
It is because of this, and his very thorough approach to all facets of his products is why I choose his work.
Ivan is away until September 5th, but will be ready to go, after that.
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The name is familiar, then I remembered that there was a gentleman named Ivan who used to offer TRE's for the C-14 (as well as other bikes). I believe this is the same person.
Glad that the flash is working out for you.
I took a quick look at his site and he seems to have a large volume of products for a large variety of bikes. Clearly he has some time and effort into this as well as a good deal of money invested.
Good info. on another potential vendor for the C-14. Thanks for taking the time to write the report and post it.
Brian
Guys, I don’t know if you've seen this new page on Ivans site:
http://www (http://www). ivansperformanceproducts.com/ ZG1400.htm
His tuning philosophy and approach is listed on this page on his site.
http://www (http://www). ivansperformanceproducts.com/ ecu.htm
Lots of good info here. and the engine is smooth as silk.
His Concours 14 reflash is now available. I know many of us who are using his Ninja 1000 flash have waited a long time for this.
Fueling and driveability is flawless and the engine is smooth as silk from idle up to its "new and improved" redline. Make no mistake, this bike now feels like a 1400.
Engine response is instant, silky smooth, light and revvy just as you would expect a first class tune to be.
<snip>
I don’t work for Ivan, and I pay full price for any work that he does for me.
He has been tuning motorcycles for a living for more than 30 years, and has been in many of the magazines over the years for his abilities.
After riding my ninja 1000 that he re-flashed, as well as a friend’s fz09, this is the person I choose to tune my bikes.
It is because of this, and his very thorough approach to all facets of his products is why I choose his work.
Ivan is away until September 5th, but will be ready to go, after that.
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I had previously been running the "files removed, fuel moto map"
I know people have asked that this be compared to a reflash. The reflash is a big improvement. I wish I could assign a number. If you forced me to, id have to say 50-75% better. Removing the butterflies certainly helped, but they really need to be there, managed differently.
Im not bagging on Fuel Moto....Thank god, for Jamie. He made the 14 worth owning at a time when we had nothing else.
Worst part about this flash was having to put my butterflies back in. If I have to do this again, I will buy/rent, and train some sort of Monkey with small hands.
I like the power improvement, but my absolute favorite part of this flash? Its the parking lot seed stuff. You guys know what this machine can be like at low speed. With the flash in place, the bike pulls clean from 6mph. I can hold 6mph without any clutch, or brake work.
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Yeah, I would also just as soon avoid putting the 'flies back in although my screw heads are not mangled and now we all know they have to go into the center, thanks to those pioneers who generated all of those sticking secondary 'flies' problems, so at least it should be a do-able thing on the first attempt. That said, I doubt I would put mine back in under any circumstances anyway; I like the bike 'fly-less' with an external mapping device. The next one will have a PC V w/ an O2 sensor and a closed loop auto- tune package but that is my own personal preference and not a knock against re- working an ECU. And, of course, the ability to change things such as fan switch points is a plus and not available with an external PC or anything similar.
And it makes a log of economic sense, far better than a PC V and tuning module: Ivan's flash is $350 by the looks (I just scanned the pages so that may not be right for the C-14), and the effort and skills required are very low IMO so 'bang for the buck', the flash is the way to go.
Ad to all of that that this is something that is used all the time the bike is ridden, at least most of the time, and it is not all that expensive IMO.
It will be interesting to get more information about this such as does he tinker with the ECO side of the maps, what other little 'treats' does he throw in there and what is the benefit, if any, in fuel economy at highway speeds. I am not really interested in the fuel economy as far as expense, but in stretching the bike's legs.
And I would never force you to assign a number to anything. But if someone did, and they kept at it long enough, with fresh batteries, I betcha' we could get you up to 90%, 100% and probably even 500%. ;D
But again, glad to hear it is working for you, nice to hear it has other benefits such as the fan temp. control, and looking forward to hear more about things such as economy, highway speed engine vibration and so forth. I would LOVE to see a set of spark plugs out of an engine flashed after 30K or more miles; given that the C-14 runs so rich stock, I have to believe Ivan's re-flash goes a long way to preventing deposits all over the combustion chamber, I know a PC III with a 'standard' map does.
Brian
I had previously been running the "files removed, fuel moto map"
I know people have asked that this be compared to a reflash. The reflash is a big improvement. I wish I could assign a number. If you forced me to, id have to say 50-75% better. Removing the butterflies certainly helped, but they really need to be there, managed differently.
Im not bagging on Fuel Moto....Thank god, for Jamie. He made the 14 worth owning at a time when we had nothing else.
Worst part about this flash was having to put my butterflies back in. If I have to do this again, I will buy/rent, and train some sort of Monkey with small hands.
I like the power improvement, but my absolute favorite part of this flash? Its the parking lot seed stuff. You guys know what this machine can be like at low speed. With the flash in place, the bike pulls clean from 6mph. I can hold 6mph without any clutch, or brake work.
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Wow, now we have three flashes available. Who would have expected it? Thanks for sharing the info.
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There are actually more than that available, and some have been around for quite a while.
ECU re-flashes are really pretty common and the only reason we (C-14 owners) do not see more if that we are C-14 owners :-) Just not a very big market and so few are willing to put the time and money into it that it would require. Same thing has happened with Power Commander; they are alive and doing fine but not interested in the return from the C-14 market so no new maps for years now.
One of the basic rules in sales (meaning all business, all the time, everywhere): sell things that a lot of people buy. And if violating that rule, charge more for the item / service.... which again is why a $175 flash is ~$300 for a C-14. Move over to a Yamaha liter bike and watch them all appear and the price drop.
Brian
Wow, now we have three flashes available. Who would have expected it? Thanks for sharing the info.
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The butterflies were horrible to get back in...I wont lie about that. Never really meant to come out, or put back in. I misplaced my originals, but found a used throttle body for 40.00...no big deal, just remove those flies, and install in mine.
I can see why the tuners don't want us removing butterflies. On this used set, the screwes would not budge. The screwes laughed at heat, and even my jis screwdriver stripped them.
Hope was, i'd have a few extra screwes, but I salvaged 2 from this new/used set.
I ended up dressing the threaded ends of my old ones, and they started no problem. I'll bet it took me 2 hrs.
Honest, it is worth it. The bike now has a good hit at 7000rpm, another at 9000 that pulls to an indicated 11,500rpm. Obviously, the tach is optimistic. Probably closer to 10,500, in reality.
But seriously, how often can we use that, as fun as it is?
The part I like is the 0-20% throttle. Compared to our "flies out", it filled in the missing spots in that early part of the throttle. There is still big power there, like we had without flies, but the bike pulls clean at 900 rpm. Its not like we suffered, butterflies out, but this is even better. I hope you can try one, sometime. I think there was a lot more wrong than just the butterflies.
I'll say that along with a small prayer..please..no one ever do anything to make me remove these flies again.
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BDF, you would be the last person I would ever try to lie to, or exaggerate to you.
The hit we love, with butterfles removed? This flash is head and shoulders above that.
I dont know the specific details, but there were "restrictions" that just removing the butterflies did not eliminate.
I hope you get a chance to try it. The bike even sounds different. zx14 like, now.
I hope to take a decent ride, tomorrow, or sunday and see what sort of fuel mileage I get....or, just keep getting called into work for emergency calls...whatever fate has in mind.
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Well I certainly do not think I implied you WOULD fib or exaggerate.
As I said, great that it works so well and you are so pleased with the performance. And again, for the price and effort, it is absolutely the best 'bang for the buck' available I believe.
All of that said, I think I would still go with 'flies removed and a self- tuning system, either external such as Dyno Tune, or the internal (Boys!) versions now available to read and record exhaust oxygen data and then re-flash the ECU using those self- generated maps. But it would absolutely be more expensive and far more work than an off the shelf re-flash of the ECU.
Best of luck with yours and I hope you continue to enjoy the bike more as time goes by.
Brian
BDF, you would be the last person I would ever try to lie to, or exaggerate to you.
The hit we love, with butterfles removed? This flash is head and shoulders above that.
I dont know the specific details, but there were "restrictions" that just removing the butterflies did not eliminate.
I hope you get a chance to try it. The bike even sounds different. zx14 like, now.
I hope to take a decent ride, tomorrow, or sunday and see what sort of fuel mileage I get....or, just keep getting called into work for emergency calls...whatever fate has in mind.
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BDF, no, no and no....I did not mean to say anything like that...scratch that comment I made, please...
I have an adult brain, pretty much, but the typing, english and grammar skills of a slightly below average 5 year old.
The part we would not be able to access, doing it our way. ..I do mean "our way". I completely hate sending stuff away, and I love doing it all myself.
There were some serious restrictions programmed in that would be extremely difficult/impossible to access.
He has it so dialed in, theres no need for AIS removal, marbles in the airbox, or any of that.
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Hey, no problem, I am not offended and as far as I can tell, you did not say anything wrong..... all is good. :chugbeer:
As I said, I am sure it is the best bang for the buck, and is easily an improvement over the original Power Commanders and the maps they developed. That said, I still believe any vehicle can be better tuned for the rider, the circumstances, the altitude and a host of other things by the actual user rather than a canned solution. That plus I like to tinker myself, and the fact that I want to know what the mixture is rather than leave it to others; just a personal preference that I am willing to pay for with both time and money.
But again, good to know there is another tune out there that is of good (maybe great?) quality and has happy followers. The more available, the better it is for the consumer IMO. It also helps make the providers sharper 'cause they have some competition, which is always good for a 'good' business IMO.
So this is all good, and thanks for making the info. available to the rest of us.
Brian
BDF, no, no and no....I did not mean to say anything like that...scratch that comment I made, please...
I have an adult brain, pretty much, but the typing, english and grammar skills of a slightly below average 5 year old.
The part we would not be able to access, doing it our way. ..I do mean "our way". I completely hate sending stuff away, and I love doing it all myself.
There were some serious restrictions programmed in that would be extremely difficult/impossible to access.
He has it so dialed in, theres no need for AIS removal, marbles in the airbox, or any of that.
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BDF, you'll know the answer to this.
So, Ivans new Concours 14 flash includes all. However, I was way too lazy to remove my power commander. All I did was put in a map full of "0"
I said I would give you guys fuel mileage figures, and I will, as soon as I really have a number based over more miles.
With all that said, how accurate is our onboard computer? In ways, its probably more accurate than hoping I fill my tank to the same level?
What I saw, today, at 60-65 mpg was interesting. But, I don't want to give that number and find out the computer is just a random number generator, or such.
The "current" figure did more around, but I did find I could keep it within a pretty narrow window(@65mph) or + or- 3 mpg.
Of course, I have never once looked at, or checked this "current" figure with my stock bike at the same speed. I kept my bike in normal condition, for today. C Bailey touring screen as well as leaving the bags on. No tucking in, or no action, by me, to try and manipulate the number.
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Based on past anecdotal evidence, the computer is a bit optimistic in determining MPG. Of course, YMMV.
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Ok, I can live with optimistic.
To set the location up, I was right at the edge of the Salt Flats, and crossing a portion of them.
I decided to go 30 miles into them, catch the first exit, and return. I was a rolling traffic block. The speed limit is 80, and not many obey that. But I stayed with it. To be fair, I did pass a sheepherder, and his wagon..
I used my throttle lock, and that kept speeds between 60 and 65. Reading "current" It held numbers between 51-and 54mpg. I found it interesting, and really kick myself for not knowing what the stock bike would do, in similar conditions.
Ill report back when I can run a few tank fulls through it.
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With all that said, how accurate is our onboard computer? In ways, its probably more accurate than hoping I fill my tank to the same level?
It won't be all that accurate since even the SLIGHTEST throttle change, wind change, weather change, traction change will alter it significantly. Plus, in the real world, driving is never like that- RPM and loads will vary a lot.
The only way to have a MPG rating that is really meaningful in the real word is to have an average of averages across exact known amounts of gas. The easiest way to do that is by measuring the gas as you fill it- use the "plate"in the tank for a known fill point and divide out your trip odometer reading. Even that way, you are still getting an average across your entire riding, so for comparison, it requires trying to ride the "same way" (on average) across the tanks (or partial tanks). Pretty much impossible, which is why an average of averages is even better which takes a lot of time. And if you didn't do all that before, then you can't do it after.
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Yes, all good points, and I will do that.
Its difficult, on my cal bike, to judge the "full" point on the fuel tank.
There is a neck piece that extends down the filler cap and it is very possible to fill to that lower edge multiple times and pack more fuel in than it was designed to hold.
But I think I can do it. I'll put the bike , on the centerstand, and fill to that spot once, and call it full. Repeat that, and it should be fairly accurate.
Yes, I did see that figure move around, but being able to hold it within that 3mpg range, for 30 miles, made me optimistic that I'll see good numbers in the cruising speed range.
Fuel mileage it torture, for me. Personally, this is is for fun, and I dont really bother checking, normally. I never bought the flash just to improve the numbers, but became interested when I watched the display.
Top speed was plus 10 on what Ive ever seen before. Had to try, for historical purposes.....was crossing Salt Flats and it felt disrespectful to not try.
Speaking of high mileage, and the best mileage I ever saw.....
I was a senior, in High School. I worked as a propane fill guy and a grocery bagger. Massive salary, for both, of 3.40 per hr. I saved enough to buy a Yamaha xs1100 and added my windjammer fairing to it.
My best friend wanted a motorcycles, and his grandma bought one, for him. We were on the phone and he said it was a Yamaha "Midnight special"....
Back then, that meant something...My god, was it the 650? maybe the 850? Surely not the 1100..wow..this was going to be awesome. He , and I would tour the west coast...maybe even the east coast. The options were limitless. How much camping gear can I carry? Mayeb I need to buy a tent? How am I going to cook?
I arrive at his house and I saw it....Yes, it was a "Midnight special", but it was the 50cc version. Ok, so our tour just got shorter.
We did go for a ride. We drive around the valley. Top speed, 41 mph. By the end of the day, we had covered over 125 miles. It ended up where my 1100 got 68mpg. His "Midnight Special " was over 100.
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Fuel mileage is torture, for me. Personally, this is is for fun, and I dont really bother checking, normally. I never bought the flash just to improve the numbers, but became interested when I watched the display.
Ironically, a lot of people screw up their average after reflashing because the bike is so much more responsive and fun, they drive it much harder for quite a while and it makes the average go down instead of up :) Didn't have that problem with this old Guhl flash because it doesn't do much for fuel economy (nor much for smoothness either), just responsiveness and power.
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Roland,
I'd like to hear more about your "[size=78%]was crossing Salt Flats and it felt disrespectful to not try". [/size]
[/size]I'm a big fan of anything Bonneville and it always interests me to here about personal experiences there.[size=78%]
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I'll try and explain. Ive had people, from work, see what I post. Im sorry for not having a short version...
First, let it be said that rcannon409 will never break the speed limit. He drives 10 under the limit just to be extra safe. So, lets treat what I say, here, more like a dream sequence , in a movie, vs reality....
Here is a photo of the highway, as it crosses the Salt Flats. This is the view you have if you leave Salt Lake City and drive to Wendover, NV.
You have a massive Salt Flat. It appears to go on, forever, in every direction. Thousands of years ago, this was all lake bottom. As the water evaporated, it left this perfectly formed layer of Salt, and nothing else.
So, Im crossing it. There are two lanes, each direction, of highway, and nothing else.
From this direction, the land speed record track runs parallel to the highway. It's @ 1/4 mile to the North.
My mistake , here, was driving this highway, during speed week. Here I am, at 80mph, driving on a better, more safe surface than the racers have, 1/4 mile off the road...running parallel to the highway, and watching Guy Martin fly by me at 300plus....
So, there I am. Ive got this amazing motorcycle, that LOVES high speed, and this reflash that beyond all my wildest expectations.
Due to the holiday weekend, there really is not any traffic to speak of. So, I did what any c14 owner would do, and "tested" this new reflash.
It was an ideal test, as I was repeating a test i had previously tried. I had the same windshield, and my bags were still on. I wont give the exact figure, but I was +8or 9mph over what the bike ran before.
I was impressed, to say the least. Especially considering the last run was around midnight, and outside temps were way closer to 70. It was 95, yesterday.
The pic will also explain why I felt ok mentioning the fuel mileage figure. This area is FLAT, and being able to hold that 51-54 was unreal.
So, why not make a run on the real track?
As kids, we grew up riding our dirt bikes here. Learning to slide, jump and even trying to "lay er' down", just like they did , in the movies. It is riding freedom like you dream about. Ride all day long, and never cross your own tracks. We even had one of those alcohol burning Jawa speedway machines. That bike was straight from hell, but thats not the point...
Unless you have someone with you who really knows these flats, any sort of rain, temperature fluctuation, or changing weather condition is trouble. In many places, water is just under the top 1/4 inch of salt. The area can look 100% dry, but if you step on it, its like quicksand. If you find any of that, your bike will sink right up to its seat. Abandon in place sort of thing...We've stuck bikes bad enough to need a real wrecker, and winch to pull them out. So, never go on the salt, alone, and never ride right next to each other.
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I should also add that there is a south side to the salt flats, in theory, anyway.
Deep, I know you are a military guy (thank you) so you probably know more about that south area than I do.
As kids, we learned that south portion is off limits. This facility is to the south.
http://www.dugway.army.mil/ (http://www.dugway.army.mil/)
Their area is not well defined.Legend has it, there is a fence line, but you'll never get anywhere close to the fence. If your a kid, on your GT80, the guys in the white Blazers will offer you a Coke, or Pepsi. If you are an adult, and happen to be carrying a firearm, you'll realize you just made a huge mistake.
Its one of those areas thats good to explore. Its not far from the Air Force bombing range, so there are a few , old crash sites to visit, but its still best to avoid the area.
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Interesting story, thanks.
I've been competing at Bonneville since 1979. My sister lives in Roy,UT which is north of Salt Lake City. Most years while competing I'll make a mad dash from Wendover to Roy for a short visit. I am very familiar with the Highway you have pictured. My best time from Roy back to the Bonneville exit where I coasted into the gas station on empty was just about 85 minutes riding a Z1R.
Since I was unable to compete at this years Speed Week you'll have to correct my if I'm wrong. Never have I experienced racing "On the salt" that was parallel or close enough to the Highway to be seen well enough to identify the rider. In past years the "Course" has always run perpendicular to and away from the highway towards "Floating Mountain". The starting line was usually somewhere between 1/2 to 1 1/2 miles from the entrance to the Salt as dictated by the conditions of the Salt.
You are correct about one thing though. The water table is unpredictable and can be anywhere from several inches below the surface to high enough that you're walking in water. Speed Week was cancelled in 82 or 83 because it was under water.
Although the records I set at Bonniville have since been broken by others I am still the current record holder at El Mirage Dry Lakes which is a short course of just 1 mile. If you care to look it up on the SCTA/BNI site it's listed under Motorcycle's 3000cc A-BG. This record has stood unbroken since 1983. I've come within 1 mph of breaking it, but well you know it's not just twist the throttle and go fast. I have ridden my C14 at a verifiable speed, through timing lights, at 182 mph.
Cheers.
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I can't really be certain but what might look like a racing line on the north side of the highway is/was a brine canal created by the company that almost destroyed the Salt Flats. It required multiple Federal Lawsuits brought by "Save the Salt" to force the BLM to halt the practice. The reason a race course was never parallel to or that close is accidents. Just imagine a vehicle going 200-500 mph losing control and heading down the highway. Not good for anyone and very bad P.R. for SCTA/BNI. 1/4 mile at speed = 1/8 - 2 seconds depending on speed of course.
I could be mistaken, it's hard to tell and I've missed Speed Week for three consecutive years thanks to being otherwise occupied playing in the sand.
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Small world. Im very familiar with Roy, and am up there all the time. If you have not been to that Hill Air Force base museum, you should stop in. Its a great place to spend the day. Sure, you'll expect to spend a few hours..then....
This year, it looked as if the course was moved. I cant even say that as I never knew where it was, before. Usually, all you see from the highway is people parked there. This year, you could see vehicles in motion. I wondered if they did this to call attention to the event? Or, maybe thats where the salt was in good condition?
Its a difficult spot to describe. Other than the sign, there nothing there. The canal, but no real landmarks
If you go past the gas station, maybe 1/4 mile, and make a right. Theres a access road, and this access road ends with a sign welcoming you to the salt flats.
The course, this year appeared to be running straight away from that sign area, and no, the highway was not really close enough to identify a specific rider. I knew the colors of his team, and sort-of assumed.
I cant say it was running perfectly parallel, it very well may have been more of a "Y", but it was close enough to parallel that I could get a feel for how fast they were. People stopped, on the highway, to watch.
I dont really have a good way, or word to describe what the vehicle looked like as it went by. Sort-of top fuel like, but there was no stopping. A bit disorienting, really. The vehicles were far away, from the highway, yet at the speed they were traveling, not really.
If you go back again, please let me know..I'll stay out of the way. I did not know anyone who was racing, and there was no way I was just going to drive in.
Congrats on your records. That event has always fascinated me, and Ive never really seen enough, or been close enough to really get a good feel for it.
Did you ever drive out to see the giant pumps? Im not 100% certain where they are, but I always wanted to. The governor, in @1980, put them in just in case the lake ever got bigger. At the time it threatened the city. There were several wet years, and the Great Salt Lake was flooding I80. So, the governor built this pump station. I suppose it was supposed to pump the water out into the flats, and save the city?
The lake receded, and has been no problem for 35 years. The pumps are apparently on stand--by, ready to be fired up.
There has to be a road going to them. Probably dirt? maybe better on a DS bike?
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I wanted to talk more about the damaged salt. That company you did not name, and thats probably best, did NOTHING...its just magic that the salt was 7 feet thick, when I was a kid, and now its inches, at best.
Just me, but I always wondered if everyone was looking at the correct company?
Its interesting to see the pic of this place. The reason the photo is black and white is because they dont want you to see the green smoke pouring from the smokestack. When our family drove by, my granddaughter saw it and said, "Look PaPa..Ninja green!"
US Magnesium. I know you are not allowed on site unless you have a respirator. No big deal to someone named "deepsea" but this freaks normal people out.
I believe this company is untouchable due to how much magnesium they supply.
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Ironically, a lot of people screw up their average after reflashing because the bike is so much more responsive and fun, they drive it much harder for quite a while and it makes the average go down instead of up :) Didn't have that problem with this old Guhl flash because it doesn't do much for fuel economy (nor much for smoothness either), just responsiveness and power.
I hadn't checked my fuel economy in ages. Spurred by the thread, I decided to check. 206.3 miles, 4.9 gal = 42.1MPG. This was "normal" riding, mostly cruising, half the miles were super-slab (64/199) at 65-70MPH, the other half was curvy byway (5) at 45-60MPH. Ave temp high 60's. I always joke that my MPG always seems to be the same as recommended tire pressure and the answer to the Ultimate Question (42, of course). This just confirms it yet again.
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One of the major attractions for racers in the 70's and early 80's wasn't even on the salt. In one of the old aircraft hangers a research physicist would invite us to watch his experiments with electricity. This required him to notify the local electric grid ahead of time and the use of 6 massive generators. If you've ever played with a Plasma Ball think of that being outside the glass ball. He would hold a car key and trail a lightening bolt 60 feet across the floor then make it dance. Awesome display. He was funded by the DOE.
Sorry I didn't mean to hijack this thread.
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The hangers...were they right on the salt flats, or more on the outskirts of Wendover? Well, not like you could even say, "outskirts". Saying so would make Wendover a legit town. Mayeb "edge" of town is better? There are a lot of old, interesting structures just south of town. Had no idea they would hold things like you described.
That poor town is split in half. 1/2 is Utah. Its barely there. The other (Nevada) half allows gambling, has casinos, restaurants hotels, new schools, and no personal income tax.
From what it sounds like, those Wendover hangers hold a lot of history.
http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/home/2799129-155/remembering-wendover (http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/home/2799129-155/remembering-wendover)
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Wendover is a legit town. It's where all the good Mormons go to gamble, drink and socialize with the Nevada "Ladies". ;D 8) 8) Please take no offense, I was raised one. A Mormon not a Nevada Lady.
The hangar's were at the old Army Air Corp's Airfield. It's where the Thrust II was housed while prepping for a record attempt.
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LOL regarding Wendover.
I wish I could have shown you our "house". It was on 6th street, but not like it is now..think 1970. My dad worked for the railroad, and this place was our "second" house. A tough shed would have been a massive upgrade. I should have spent more time dirt bike riding over by the hangars.
Now days, its funny if you see a neighbor there. Almost a 100% chance you'll hear..."Yea, uh...no..no..we are here for the concert, but thats all..." If not a concert, its Jay Leno, or a comedian..but NEVER for the reason thats obvious.
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Gotta love those Mormons.
Wow, 1970 I was in Nam. at the ripe old age of 17.
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Severe thread drift!
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ts been very warm here. I had my bike winterized, but when I saw 65 degrees, it became UN-winterised, screw that...
Off with the cover, and I ride the 14 200 miles. Im still adjusting to the new bike. I know its not a new bike, but the way it runs has totally changed my interaction with it.
I notice, from the dyno charts, the flashed 14 is more powerful than the zx14 until 5000rpm.
Even in 1st gear, that's over 70 mph. So, its more powerful, in an area I cannot even really access, legally.
The 14, flashed, is as smooth as a goldwing. I also have a 2012 Ninja 1000. That was sort of filling my sportbike need, or for use, locally....as if I'd need to justify a second bike to you guys....I know you get it. Im not even sure why I have my ninja, to be really honest. Its an excellent bike in its own right, but its just in it with this Ivan flashed 14.
I'll fix my 14's rear shock, maybe revalve the fork,and thats about it..perfection.
Its crazy, but this flash has be excited over a 10 year old bike! Ivan also has a good, Holiday sale....10% of his ecu flash as well as discounts on the other items he offers.
http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm)
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Kawasaki left an amazing amount of responsiveness "on the table" available to those who reflash the computer. It is a huge shame that it wasn't better off the bat. At this point, it is unlikely Kawasaki will come out with a new version of the Concours (or any REAL sport-tourer for that matter); but if they did, having to wait for someone to come along and fix it up with a reflash (assuming it would need it, which is a pretty good assumption) would be a major negative.
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To be fair to Kawasaki: because the induction circuit is not closed- loop, the EPA requires they err on the rich side to keep the catalytic converter 'lit' and working. The bike is too rich, pretty far too rich, from the factory but again, Kawasaki has to meet emission standards, a 50K mile test cycle and other things that those altering the tuning of the bike do not. So it is not as if 1) Kawasaki is incompetent or 2) They cannot make the bike run better, they are 'hamstrung' from the starting gate.
It is the same way with the exhaust; most complain about the stock exhaust being too heavy, too bulky and so forth but not one single aftermarket exhaust would ever make importation requirements if attached to a C-14 when put through the US vehicle certification process. So again, the tendency is to think Kawasaki is collectively stupid, incompetent and so forth when in reality, the manufacturers and the after market parts makers are playing by two different sets of rules. Or more accurately, the Mfg. is playing by a rigid set of rules and the aftermarket suppliers have none at all.
Brian
Kawasaki left an amazing amount of responsiveness "on the table" available to those who reflash the computer. It is a huge shame that it wasn't better off the bat. At this point, it is unlikely Kawasaki will come out with a new version of the Concours (or any REAL sport-tourer for that matter); but if they did, having to wait for someone to come along and fix it up with a reflash (assuming it would need it, which is a pretty good assumption) would be a major negative.
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You don't have to tell me, I have said it many times in the past that Kawasaki has to meet strict fuel economy, emissions control, and noise regulations while also ensuring the bike runs reliably in all conditions. The three are the bulk of the issue and strangle the bike a lot... Back with my ZRX, a "jet kit" solved a lot of the exact same problems and set the bike free like I couldn't believe. It was even more dramatic with the Concours, not only because the regulations are even more strict, but with the ZRX the bike had zero control over the throttle, so there was none of that to undo.
I am saying it is a shame Kawasaki has to release the bike like it is. I put most of the blame on mostly silly regulations. Although there are some aspects that I think could have been better, even under those circumstances. Even flashed to death, the Concours still gets far, far better fuel economy than any reasonable car, let's not even consider the zillions of SUVs. And even with no O2 sensor and a lower-tech 2-way CAT, AND flashed, the emissions are probably still considerably less than my modern car. I think about that often. I also think about it every time I look around and see 95% of all cars carrying a single person with no cargo, especially all the nearly empty gas-guzzling SUVs and huge trucks.
And what has terminated the Concours in most of the world now, and will likely in the USA after next year? Silly Euro-4 regulations in the EU pushing even more emissions control on motorcycles, already the most efficient ICE vehicles out there... [Despite that the regulations that apparently were easy to work around for the Concours' brother, the ZX-14R]
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This whole reflash thing really surprised me, to be honest. I had a concept of what the engine might feel like due to having him flash my ninja, so I halfway expected the response...
What I did not expect was the vibration reduction, or fuel mileage.
Both are noticeably better. The mileage is in the 50's on the occasions where I just flow with traffic, and keep it under 70.
With regards to vibration, it never had much to begin with, but between the flash and my HVMP heavy bar ends,it has to be reduced by at least 50%, if not more.
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This whole reflash thing really surprised me, to be honest. I had a concept of what the engine might feel like due to having him flash my ninja, so I halfway expected the response...
What I did not expect was the vibration reduction, or fuel mileage.
Both are noticeably better. The mileage is in the 50's on the occasions where I just flow with traffic, and keep it under 70.
With regards to vibration, it never had much to begin with, but between the flash and my HVMP heavy bar ends,it has to be reduced by at least 50%, if not more.
HVMP? What is that? Please tell me more, my bike's vibration between 2500 and 3800 rpms is driving me mental.
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Lots of things can cause vibration on these bikes. It's not normal though. I had some on my C14, right bar was the offender on mine (Heli bars). Took off the Area P and put the OEM back on and it went down to nothing. Could be the exhaust nuts are loose, could be engine mounts, could really be anything.
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HVMP? What is that? Please tell me more, my bike's vibration between 2500 and 3800 rpms is driving me mental.
Here you go (http://bfy.tw/FKxc). We have too many "Mentals" driving here now.
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Here you go (http://bfy.tw/FKxc). We have too many "Mentals" driving here now.
Pretty funny Marty!
Sorry, I was under the impression that a forum was a place to share information, not to tell people go look for it yourself. But still, appreciate the effort you put in being sarcastic.
Looks like ZGGTR is starting to resemble COG...oh well.
cheers pal!
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I do not think so: I know Marty fairly well and he is just not mean- spirited at all. I am quite confident he was being amusing and had no intent otherwise.
Sometimes the written communication just does not convey the right meaning, or all the meaning.
Brian (who has been taken incorrectly more than a couple of times myself)
Pretty funny Marty!
Sorry, I was under the impression that a forum was a place to share information, not to tell people go look for it yourself. But still, appreciate the effort you put in being sarcastic.
Looks like ZGGTR is starting to resemble COG...oh well.
cheers pal!
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No, lets not let this place get like the other one. This has always been THE place where we can talk about new ideas, thoughts and products without fear of 8 cronies jumping in and attacking or defending the old way...
The members, here, were always cool to argue with as well. The arguments did not always end in agreement, but there was always a lot to be learned from the experience.
As far as "search", well, go figure......it is a 10 year old bike, and most topics have been covered...but, these bar ends were new, for me, and I dont mind talking about them. Even if its been covered 237 times before.
Regarding the vibration, for sure do check any and all possible sources before buying a band aid for the problem. Its stupid to buy these heavy bar ends if your vibration is because of a loose exhaust, or such...
But, assuming you have no loose bolts, engine mounts, exhaust mounts, etc, here are the heavy bar ends I mentioned.
http://www.hvmp.com/Kawasaki-s/1.htm (http://www.hvmp.com/Kawasaki-s/1.htm)
I bought the "extra heavy" set. Way too expensive for a piece of well finished bar stock, but they do work really well.
They weigh just over 1lb, each....they show the "extra heavy" as being 17.2oz. Im guessing but they are probably 3-4 times as heavy as our stock bar ends...If my wife was mad, you would not want her throwing one of these at you.
I bought mine on ebay, used, and paid less, but after using them, I would have gladly paid the 85.00 or so for a new set.
As soon as I can, I'll get a set for my ninja 1000. The ninja has 10x as much vibration as the c14, and they worked awesoem on it, as well.
With these on the 14, and an Ivans reflashed ecu, the vibration is reduced to pretty much nothing. Way less than stock...
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No, lets not let this place get like the other one. This has always been THE place where we can talk about new ideas, thoughts and products without fear of 8 cronies jumping in and attacking or defending the old way...
The members, here, were always cool to argue with as well. The arguments did not always end in agreement, but there was always a lot to be learned from the experience.
As far as "search", well, go figure......it is a 10 year old bike, and most topics have been covered...but, these bar ends were new, for me, and I dont mind talking about them. Even if its been covered 237 times before.
Regarding the vibration, for sure do check any and all possible sources before buying a band aid for the problem. Its stupid to buy these heavy bar ends if your vibration is because of a loose exhaust, or such...
But, assuming you have no loose bolts, engine mounts, exhaust mounts, etc, here are the heavy bar ends I mentioned.
http://www.hvmp.com/Kawasaki-s/1.htm (http://www.hvmp.com/Kawasaki-s/1.htm)
I bought the "extra heavy" set. Way too expensive for a piece of well finished bar stock, but they do work really well.
They weigh just over 1lb, each....they show the "extra heavy" as being 17.2oz. Im guessing but they are probably 3-4 times as heavy as our stock bar ends...If my wife was mad, you would not want her throwing one of these at you.
I bought mine on ebay, used, and paid less, but after using them, I would have gladly paid the 85.00 or so for a new set.
As soon as I can, I'll get a set for my ninja 1000. The ninja has 10x as much vibration as the c14, and they worked awesoem on it, as well.
With these on the 14, and an Ivans reflashed ecu, the vibration is reduced to pretty much nothing. Way less than stock...
Awesome, this is the kinda response I was expecting! truly appreciate you taking the time to give me your input. As I was saying, the vibration on mine is driving me crazy; my hands go numb within 5 minutes. I would love to buy a set of extra heavy used ones for my 2012 C14, but if not, I might just end up buying them new. I'm quite interested by what you mentioned; I saw a lot of postings on how the re-torque-ing of the engine mounts might help with the vibration, but since you mentioned it, which other locations may need to be re-tightened as well that might be affected vibrations on the handlebards? I'm just trying to be thorough. The more specific you can be, the better!
Thanks again man, great review and I've already started looking into these; something needs to be done about this stupid vibrations!
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Depending on how you ride, and just how the vibration is getting to you, a cruise- control may also help alleviate the problem; I know it did for me. Once the CC is locked to a speed, there is no need to maintain any force or torque on the handlebar, more like resting your right hand on the bar. You can even cover the front brake lever if you want, again without having to maintain any torque to keep the throttle open.
It has served me very well and I would not own a bike that I rode more than 20 minutes at a time without CC in the future.
On the C-14 you have basically two choices: the Rostra, which takes some electrical, wiring and light fabrication skills to adapt to the bike and costs around $225, or a McCruise which is an easier and faster install, works well but is more expensive at around $1,000 (the units come from Australia so the cost varies with the exchange rate).
Brian
Awesome, this is the kinda response I was expecting! truly appreciate you taking the time to give me your input. As I was saying, the vibration on mine is driving me crazy; my hands go numb within 5 minutes. I would love to buy a set of extra heavy used ones for my 2012 C14, but if not, I might just end up buying them new. I'm quite interested by what you mentioned; I saw a lot of postings on how the re-torque-ing of the engine mounts might help with the vibration, but since you mentioned it, which other locations may need to be re-tightened as well that might be affected vibrations on the handlebards? I'm just trying to be thorough. The more specific you can be, the better!
Thanks again man, great review and I've already started looking into these; something needs to be done about this stupid vibrations!
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When I got my 14, all I saw was a wall of plastic and strange rivets holding it together. The bike had under 2000 mile son it and was not even broken in.
My first move was to order freds maintenance videos. They helped a lot with regards to removing plastic, and pretty much anything the bike will ever need, maintenance wise.. Well worth the 80.00, or so, they cost.
http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html (http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html)
After that, I bought a shop manual and just went down the torque table and checked each line item. Go figure, after that much time and effort, everything was fine....mostly...
The only strange things i've had that loosened up were the exhaust header nuts.
I was able to go in and tighten these (8mm, i believe???..maybe 10mm) nuts using a 1/4 inch drive socket set.
I used my socket, then a 1/4" universal joint, 4 inch extension, and my ratchet. Its a tight fit, but very do-able without removing panels.
How many miles on your bike, and has it had any large maintenance activities?
If someone has had the bike apart, for maintenance, its probably not a bad idea to remove the fairing pieces and just start checking.
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When I got my 14, all I saw was a wall of plastic and strange rivets holding it together. The bike had under 2000 mile son it and was not even broken in.
My first move was to order freds maintenance videos. They helped a lot with regards to removing plastic, and pretty much anything the bike will ever need, maintenance wise.. Well worth the 80.00, or so, they cost.
http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html (http://www.angelridevideos.com/concours.html)
After that, I bought a shop manual and just went down the torque table and checked each line item. Go figure, after that much time and effort, everything was fine....mostly...
The only strange things i've had that loosened up were the exhaust header nuts.
I was able to go in and tighten these (8mm, i believe???..maybe 10mm) nuts using a 1/4 inch drive socket set.
I used my socket, then a 1/4" universal joint, 4 inch extension, and my ratchet. Its a tight fit, but very do-able without removing panels.
How many miles on your bike, and has it had any large maintenance activities?
If someone has had the bike apart, for maintenance, its probably not a bad idea to remove the fairing pieces and just start checking.
I got mine around April '17. It had 4500 miles on it, and the vibration was not there WHATSOEVER. One day while on a long ride with my riding team, 3rd gear popped out under hard accel. When we arrived to where we were going, I could hear a noise in the tranny; turns out 2nd and 3rd gear had teeth broken. Repaired under warranty at Hebeler's in PA. After that repair, even after having them re-check the engine balancers and all, vibes around 2500 to 3800 rpms are still there. I will take a crack at it this weekend, remove all the plastics, change the air filter, install a new horn, and re-torque the engine mounts and other bolts, see if that helps the issue. That was the only large maintenance it had.
Thanks again for your help RCannon!
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I'll bet you find something...and for sure do that checking before trying to mask it with heavy bar ends...
I have a feeling soemthign similar happened to my bike, before i had it. I can see that the oil pan has been off, and I did not remove it. No complaints as my bike shifts very well, but I would like to knwo just what happened, and why the pan was removed..
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If yours is a gen1, could have been a hit to the oil pad plug area.
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I do not think so: I know Marty fairly well and he is just not mean- spirited at all. I am quite confident he was being amusing and had no intent otherwise.
Sometimes the written communication just does not convey the right meaning, or all the meaning.
Damn, I could have sworn I heard something like that very recently...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22964.msg285442#msg285442 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22964.msg285442#msg285442)
In regards to vibration, I guess I am lucky, or maybe even typical (??) I have very little... and my 2011 now has over 30K miles. I did have to use grip-puppies on the grips because the stock ones are hard as a rock.
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And this, Ladies and Gentlemen, is exactly where one uses the term 'Easy Boys!'
And now for the humor impaired: You see, Max here is implying that he has trouble handling "the stock ones" because they are as "hard as a rock".
Seriously guys, buy a CC and you will not have to do so much.... handling of things.
Brian
Damn, I could have sworn I heard something like that very recently...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22964.msg285442#msg285442 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=22964.msg285442#msg285442)
In regards to vibration, I guess I am lucky, or maybe even typical (??) I have very little... and my 2011 now has over 30K miles. I did have to use grip-puppies on the grips because the stock ones are hard as a rock.
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::)
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Pretty funny Marty!
Sorry, I was under the impression that a forum was a place to share information, not to tell people go look for it yourself. But still, appreciate the effort you put in being sarcastic.
Looks like ZGGTR is starting to resemble COG...oh well.
Touché! Yeah, you got me.
I had to look it up (HVMP) and then I thought I'd do a maxtog impression, and show you what I found in a little too smart ass of way. Apologies, and glad you took it well.
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I had to look it up (HVMP) and then I thought I'd do a maxtog impression, and show you what I found in a little too smart ass of way.
Well, you are way off. I spend a significant amount of time trying to locate information for people, and then give them direct links to the information they need which will help them, often with additional commentary about the topic.
I never insult people by just sending them to
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=search2 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=search2)
or http://lmgtfy.com/ (http://lmgtfy.com/)
If you don't know the difference, that is bad. If you think calling it a "Max impression" is funny, I am telling you I don't think it is at all and really don't appreciate it. Since you seem to be willing to apologize, I think you should apologize to me, next...
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If yours is a gen1, could have been a hit to the oil pad plug area.
Great point, and that very well may be true.
Yes, Ive always appreciated it when the first part to touch the ground is the oil drain plug..awesoem design!
If you guys have not see how this looks, on the first gen oil pan, I'll post a picture. This pan has been modified. Mine still has a "guard" , right in front of this bolt. In the pic the guard has been cut off.
It would be the first piece to contact the ground if I went over a curb, or through a gutter thats deep.
I wondered abotu transmission work just because my bike shifts so well. If soemoen told me it had been hand assembled, and blueprinted,I'd believe it.
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Well, you are way off. I spend a significant amount of time trying to locate information for people, and then give them direct links to the information they need which will help them, often with additional commentary about the topic.
I never insult people by just sending them to
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=search2 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=search2)
or http://lmgtfy.com/ (http://lmgtfy.com/)
If you don't know the difference, that is bad. If you think calling it a "Max impression" is funny, I am telling you I don't think it is at all and really don't appreciate it. Since you seem to be willing to apologize, I think you should apologize to me, next...
OH good grief!
Yes I did find it amusing, however this place just isn't as fun as it used to be. I've tried to help folks too you know.
OK, max', I apologize for all the times I've picked on you. We all* appreciate the hard work you do around here keeping things organized,
and the inmates aware of old threads and their locations. I won't pick on you out loud anymore.
(* I really can't speak for everybody, but I sort of assumed that those that don't like you left the forum when you became a moderator.)
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OH good grief! Yes I did find it amusing, however this place just isn't as fun as it used to be. I've tried to help folks too you know.
OK, max', I apologize for all the times I've picked on you. We all appreciate the hard work you do around here keeping things organized, and the inmates aware of old threads and their locations. I won't pick on you out loud anymore.
:) I know you are a good guy- but it is a good illustration of how one person's tease can be serious for another. Really, I knew you weren't being mean.
:grouphug:
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Yeah, I have noticed this too. Not sure why but it does seem like some of the older, well- known folks are fading away and the place is losing that familiarity that really helps prevent friction.
Oh well.....
Brian
OH good grief!
Yes I did find it amusing, however this place just isn't as fun as it used to be.
<snip>
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:) I know you are a good guy-
:grouphug:
OH Sure!...cause me to be emotionally damaged for life and unable to relate to people over the internet ever again...then start sucking up to me. Harumph! (http://usa.ime.cdn.cootekservice.com/default/webpage/shop_static/images/emoji/emoji_u1f645.png)
:)
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:) I know you are a good guy- but
:grouphug:
How can you be so sure...? And how do you know he's even a guy....? This is the internet after all... :o
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:rotflmao:
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And how do you know he's even a guy....?
As far as Marty goes, well let's just say that I have seen the way he 'hugs' some women in greeting and it IS rather unusual. So watch out for that guy [person].
Sorta puts a whole new spin on things, doesn't it? :banana
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Yeah, I have noticed this too. Not sure why but it does seem like some of the older, well- known folks are fading away and the place is losing that familiarity that really helps prevent friction.
Oh well.....
Brian
I'm not going anywhere, even if I bought another bike. Whoa there! I did buy another bike with heated grips and seat (leather you know), cruise control, stereo blue tooth entertainment. I could go on, but I won't. Well maybe I will. I don't have any other outlets to torture people so that's another reason I'm staying. :P
BTW, Max is a guy and is quite nice. I've met up with him a few times, though not on a bike. :thumbs:
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BTW, Max is a guy and is quite nice. I've met up with him a few times, though not on a bike. :thumbs:
They weren't talking about me, but about Marty. But thanks :)
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Touché! Yeah, you got me.
I had to look it up (HVMP) and then I thought I'd do a maxtog impression, and show you what I found in a little too smart ass of way. Apologies, and glad you took it well.
Yeah, I took it well buddy, I know we are all in here joint together by a wonderful passion which is motorcycling, and doing so on the best saddle available, the Connie! So yeah, I appreciate the apology still, but no offense taken! Here's to more knowledge sharing and I hope I can help you out in the near future with anything really! :grouphug: :chugbeer:
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BTW, Max is a guy and is quite nice.
They weren't talking about me, but about Marty. But thanks :)
The fact that he dragged you into it max', means he has repressed doubts. Welcome to the club. :-*
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The fact that he dragged you into it max', means he has repressed doubts. Welcome to the club. :-*
We are all starting to sound like a bunch of old dykes on bikes on a future Discovery channel program.. ::)
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We are all starting to sound like a bunch of old dykes on bikes on a future Discovery channel program.. ::)
For the right money I'll let my armpit hair grow...
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For the right money I'll let my armpit hair grow...
Hee, hee,hee, and buy an old ratty panhead right away with a pink seat and bar streamers.
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For the right money I'll let my armpit hair grow...
Sort of implies that you currently are shaving it??? 😮🤔
A bodybuilder....or?
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A gentleman never tells.
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i'm a north georgia, north carolina, tennessee mountain rider with ivans reflash on a 08 connie. made a world of difference and no more heat on my legs. another plus, he rides a concours. you can tell when talking to him he really has a passion for this. his website shows all dyno results and is nicely done. i get 46 mpg. no emails allowed, he wants to talk to you by phone. nice
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x193/vulcan9611/3086525.jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/vulcan9611/p/63a75f26-eac6-41e5-b513-21e933b7810e)
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Hi,
I've got Ivan's ECU flash installed and adjusted idle speed to approx. 1200 rpm as he specified in the instruction that came back with the ECU. Now I've noticed that when I start the bike the idle speed starts at just over 1000 rpm. Then after a few seconds it jumps to well over 2000 rpm and stays there for about a couple of minutes or so. After that it finally drops to 1200 rpm. Is this normal or do I need to adjust something?
no emails allowed, he wants to talk to you by phone
I hate phones and usually do not do business with companies that ask me to call them. It's 2021 after all and there are a lot of great ways to communicate. I do not understand why people still use phone calls as if we are stuck in the 19th century. I've made an exception for Ivan because I saw a lot of praises for his ECU flash.
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I've got Ivan's ECU flash installed and adjusted idle speed to approx. 1200 rpm as he specified in the instruction that came back with the ECU. Now I've noticed that when I start the bike the idle speed starts at just over 1000 rpm. Then after a few seconds it jumps to well over 2000 rpm and stays there for about a couple of minutes or so. After that it finally drops to 1200 rpm. Is this normal or do I need to adjust something?
I think mine does take a second before it goes into higher idle when cold, but not terribly long. Idle adjustment is normally specified and performed while engine is warm. You will probably want to supply the group lots more info in any case:
Year of bike, miles, did it do that before flash when cold, how long have you ridden it, what was ambient temp, when/what were last services, what type/age gas, is throttle action smooth, how many is a few seconds, what does it do when started again warm?
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Hi,
I hate phones and usually do not do business with companies that ask me to call them. It's 2021 after all and there are a lot of great ways to communicate. I do not understand why people still use phone calls as if we are stuck in the 19th century. I've made an exception for Ivan because I saw a lot of praises for his ECU flash.
The great thing about a phone call, is you would have already had the issue resolved had you called instead of emailed. Sometimes speaking directly is the better option. Its faster, though I too like email. The phone gives you the ability to ask instantaneous follow up questions, and troubleshoot quicker and more effectively.
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I think mine does take a second before it goes into higher idle when cold, but not terribly long. Idle adjustment is normally specified and performed while engine is warm. You will probably want to supply the group lots more info in any case:
Year of bike, miles, did it do that before flash when cold, how long have you ridden it, what was ambient temp, when/what were last services, what type/age gas, is throttle action smooth, how many is a few seconds, what does it do when started again warm?
Thank you for your reply. Strange, but today I was not able to reproduce that behavior. Two things happened to my bike recently:
- I've just had a first (kind of) long trip (about 100 miles);
- I've refueled it for the first time since I took it from the dealership.
I do not know what gas they've put into the tank in the dealership, but I've used 91 octane Chevron with Techron. I think it's most likely the gas change that fixed the problem. Alternatively (but that's just my guess), maybe the ECU needed to collect some sensor data and after it collected enough from that trip it changed the start up behavior.
Anyway, if that happens again I'll make another post with answers to all your questions about the bike and maybe even I could include a link to a video.
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The great thing about a phone call, is you would have already had the issue resolved had you called instead of emailed. Sometimes speaking directly is the better option. Its faster, though I too like email. The phone gives you the ability to ask instantaneous follow up questions, and troubleshoot quicker and more effectively.
The same is also true for (in alphabetical order):
- Cisco WebEx
- Microsoft Teams
- Skype (also Microsoft)
- Zoom
and those are just the ones I've used a lot. There are many others that I did not use that much or do not even know about. The great thing about all those tools is that you can see the person you are talking to. I hate it when I can hear someone's voice but I can't see the person. Did I mention that we live in the 21st century, not in the 19th? :)
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The same is also true for (in alphabetical order):
- Cisco WebEx
- Microsoft Teams
- Skype (also Microsoft)
- Zoom
and those are just the ones I've used a lot. There are many others that I did not use that much or do not even know about. The great thing about all those tools is that you can see the person you are talking to. I hate it when I can hear someone's voice but I can't see the person. Did I mention that we live in the 21st century, not in the 19th? :)
It isn't as easy at times in a shop to use those things, but you can have a headset on hooked to bluetooth. Technology for the sake of technology is pointless. All you need in this case is audio, not video. I love technology and was building computers 30 years ago, and began working with computers on a TRS-80. Get over yourself, people are trying to help.
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Hi,
I've got Ivan's ECU flash installed and adjusted idle speed to approx. 1200 rpm as he specified in the instruction that came back with the ECU. Now I've noticed that when I start the bike the idle speed starts at just over 1000 rpm. Then after a few seconds it jumps to well over 2000 rpm and stays there for about a couple of minutes or so. After that it finally drops to 1200 rpm. Is this normal or do I need to adjust something?
I hate phones and usually do not do business with companies that ask me to call them. It's 2021 after all and there are a lot of great ways to communicate. I do not understand why people still use phone calls as if we are stuck in the 19th century. I've made an exception for Ivan because I saw a lot of praises for his ECU flash.
I don't think that's normal. On my 08, it would start a bit high and when warmed up the idle would go to about 1200. I don't think it went as high as 2000 though. I had Steve's flash on it and it didn't affect the idle at all from what I recall.
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Mine does the same thing. I just figured it's a high warm up idle to get it up to operating temp quicker. Doesn't bother me.
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Mine does the same thing. I just figured it's a high warm up idle to get it up to operating temp quicker. Doesn't bother me.
Thank you for your reply. I was actually able to reproduce that only twice since my last post. The thing that I've noticed was in common is that both those times the outside temperature was in mid-50-ies. So I suspect that is not an issue but the bike was intentionally programmed to do that in low temperatures.
It's my first Connie, so if it is not mentioned somewhere in the MOM I have no way to know if it's a bug or a feature.
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I drove my ECU to Ivan and he reflashed while I waited. Great guy, immaculate shop, and awesome results. Completely different engine character after the flash. He's old school and so am I. I appreciate someone who wants to talk man to man and not hide behind an array of electronic nonsense. I'll be asking him to reflash again (which he does for free) as I'm installing a Delkevic de-cat header.
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I'd like to hear what you think after the Delkevic.
Mebbe do a before and after a reflash?
ie; {Did it improve/change power band etc}
Ride safe, Ted
PS: I use Steve's Mountain Runner Premium with my OEM ZX-14 Header.
It made a big improvement over justa header install.
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Hi, yes that's probably what I will do. Get the Delkevic header installed and then ride it up to Ivan's and have him reflash the ECU again with his map for the Delkevic. His dyno charts show quite a gain with the Delkevic, both horsepower and torque. But he seems to think the stock header is pretty good and has a little better midrange. I want the cat gone (and its heat) and I think it will flow better and make better sound as well. Will post up when all this gets done. Thanks!
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But he seems to think the stock header is pretty good and has a little better midrange.
It does. The C14 was designed for more lower range power than the ZX14 and the ZX14 more high-end power.
I want the cat gone (and its heat) and I think it will flow better and make better sound as well.
Sound- don't know. But previous research postings showed essentially no change in performance with the cat removed. Heat- some, probably. The C14 doesn't have much of any issue with flow in the stock exhaust system (unless you are trying to give up lower-end power for higher-end power).
One thing you don't see on a dyno is the impressive throttle response after a reflash (since that is more of a time function). But that is seen on the 1/4 mile.