Author Topic: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14  (Read 24105 times)

Offline deepseamdv

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2017, 09:35:02 AM »
Interesting story, thanks.
  I've been competing at Bonneville since 1979. My sister lives in Roy,UT which is north of Salt Lake City. Most years while competing I'll make a mad dash from Wendover to Roy for a short visit. I am very familiar with the Highway you have pictured. My best time from Roy back to the Bonneville exit where I coasted into the gas station on empty was just about 85 minutes riding a Z1R.
  Since I was unable to compete at this years Speed Week you'll have to correct my if I'm wrong. Never have I experienced racing "On the salt" that was parallel or close enough to the Highway to be seen well enough to identify the rider. In past years the "Course" has always run perpendicular to and away from the highway towards "Floating Mountain". The starting line was usually somewhere between 1/2 to 1 1/2 miles from the entrance to the Salt as dictated by the conditions of the Salt.
You are correct about one thing though. The water table is unpredictable and can be anywhere from several inches below the surface to high enough that you're walking in water. Speed Week was cancelled in 82 or 83 because it was under water.
Although the records I set at Bonniville have since been broken by others I am still the current record holder at El Mirage Dry Lakes which is a short course of just 1 mile. If you care to look it up on the SCTA/BNI site it's listed under Motorcycle's 3000cc A-BG. This record has stood unbroken since 1983. I've come within 1 mph of breaking it, but well you know it's not just twist the throttle and go fast. I have ridden my C14 at a verifiable speed, through timing lights, at 182 mph.
Cheers.
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Offline deepseamdv

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2017, 10:05:53 AM »
I can't really be certain but what might look like a racing line on the north side of the highway is/was a brine canal created by the company that almost destroyed the Salt Flats. It required multiple Federal Lawsuits brought by "Save the Salt" to force the BLM to halt the practice. The reason a race course was never parallel to or that close is accidents. Just imagine a vehicle going 200-500 mph losing control and heading down the highway. Not good for anyone and very bad P.R. for SCTA/BNI. 1/4 mile at speed = 1/8 - 2 seconds depending on speed of course.
I could be mistaken, it's hard to tell and I've missed Speed Week for three consecutive years thanks to being otherwise occupied playing in the sand.
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2017, 11:32:15 AM »
Small world. Im very familiar with Roy, and am up there all the time. If you have not been to that Hill Air Force base museum, you should stop in. Its a great place to spend the day.  Sure, you'll expect to spend a few hours..then....

This year, it looked as if the course was moved. I cant even say that as I never knew where it was, before. Usually, all you see from the highway is people parked there. This year, you could see vehicles in motion. I wondered if they did this to call attention to the event? Or, maybe thats where the salt was in good condition?

Its a difficult spot to describe. Other than the sign, there nothing there.  The canal, but no real landmarks


If you go past the gas station, maybe 1/4 mile, and make a right.  Theres a access road, and this access road ends with a sign welcoming you to the salt flats.

The course, this year appeared to be running straight away from that sign area, and no, the highway was not really close enough to identify a specific rider.  I knew the colors of his team, and sort-of assumed.

I cant say it was running perfectly parallel, it very well may have been more of a "Y", but it was close enough to parallel that I could get a feel for how fast they were. People stopped, on the highway, to watch.   

I dont really have a good way, or word to describe what the vehicle looked like as it went by.  Sort-of top fuel like, but there was no stopping. A bit disorienting, really. The vehicles were far away, from the highway, yet at the speed they were traveling, not really. 

If you go back again, please let me know..I'll stay out of the way. I did not know anyone who was racing, and there was no way I was just going to drive in.

Congrats on your records.  That event has always fascinated me, and Ive never really seen enough, or been close enough to really get a good feel for it.

Did you ever drive out to see the giant pumps?  Im not 100% certain where they are, but I always wanted to. The governor, in @1980, put them in just in case the lake ever got bigger. At the time it threatened the city. There were several wet years, and the Great Salt Lake was flooding I80.  So, the governor built this pump station. I suppose it was supposed to pump the water out into the flats, and save the city?

The lake receded, and has been no problem for 35 years.  The pumps are apparently on stand--by, ready to be fired up.

There has to be a road going to them. Probably dirt? maybe better on a DS bike?




Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2017, 11:58:16 AM »
I wanted to talk more about the damaged salt. That company you did not name, and thats probably best, did NOTHING...its just magic that the salt was 7 feet thick, when I was a kid, and now its inches, at best.

Just me, but I always wondered if everyone was looking at the correct company?

Its interesting to see the pic of this place.  The reason the photo is black and white is because they dont want you to see the green smoke pouring from the smokestack. When our family drove by, my granddaughter saw it and said, "Look PaPa..Ninja green!"

US Magnesium. I know you are not allowed on site unless you have a respirator. No big deal to someone named "deepsea" but this freaks normal people out.

I believe this company is untouchable due to how much magnesium they supply.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #24 on: September 04, 2017, 12:10:35 PM »
Ironically, a lot of people screw up their average after reflashing because the bike is so much more responsive and fun, they drive it much harder for quite a while and it makes the average go down instead of up :)  Didn't have that problem with this old Guhl flash because it doesn't do much for fuel economy (nor much for smoothness either), just responsiveness and power.

I hadn't checked my fuel economy in ages.  Spurred by the thread, I decided to check.  206.3 miles, 4.9 gal = 42.1MPG.  This was "normal" riding, mostly cruising, half the miles were super-slab (64/199) at 65-70MPH, the other half was curvy byway (5) at 45-60MPH.  Ave temp high 60's.  I always joke that my MPG always seems to be the same as recommended tire pressure and the answer to the Ultimate Question (42, of course).  This just confirms it yet again.
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Offline deepseamdv

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #25 on: September 04, 2017, 12:51:50 PM »
One of the major attractions for racers in the 70's and early 80's wasn't even on the salt. In one of the old aircraft hangers a research physicist would invite us to watch his experiments with electricity. This required him to notify the local electric grid ahead of time and the use of 6 massive generators. If you've ever played with a Plasma Ball think of that being outside the glass ball. He would hold a car key and trail a lightening bolt 60 feet across the floor then make it dance. Awesome display. He was funded by the DOE.


Sorry I didn't mean to hijack this thread.
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El Mirage Record Holder A-BG 3000cc 11/83 184.049 mph

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #26 on: September 04, 2017, 01:48:28 PM »
The hangers...were they right on the salt flats, or more on the outskirts of Wendover? Well, not like you could even say, "outskirts". Saying so would make Wendover a legit town. Mayeb "edge" of town is better?  There are a lot of old, interesting structures just south of town. Had no idea they would hold things like you described.

That poor town is split in half.  1/2 is Utah. Its barely there.  The other (Nevada) half allows gambling, has casinos, restaurants hotels, new schools, and no personal income tax.

From what it sounds like, those Wendover hangers hold a lot of history.

http://archive.sltrib.com/story.php?ref=/home/2799129-155/remembering-wendover


Offline deepseamdv

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #27 on: September 04, 2017, 02:09:00 PM »
Wendover is a legit town. It's where all the good Mormons go to gamble, drink and socialize with the Nevada "Ladies". ;D 8) 8)  Please take no offense, I was raised one. A Mormon not a Nevada Lady.
The hangar's were at the old Army Air Corp's Airfield. It's where the Thrust II was housed while prepping for a record attempt.
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #28 on: September 04, 2017, 02:52:59 PM »
LOL regarding Wendover. 

I wish I could have shown you our "house".  It was on 6th street, but not like it is now..think 1970. My dad worked for the railroad, and this place was our "second" house.  A tough shed would have been a massive upgrade.  I should have spent more time dirt bike riding over by the hangars.   

Now days, its funny if you see a neighbor there. Almost a 100% chance you'll hear..."Yea, uh...no..no..we are here for the concert, but thats all..."  If not a concert, its Jay Leno, or a comedian..but NEVER for the reason thats obvious.

Offline deepseamdv

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #29 on: September 04, 2017, 04:22:20 PM »
Gotta love those Mormons.
Wow, 1970 I was in Nam. at the ripe old age of 17.
BSA Gold Star, Norton Commando, Moto Guzzi V-7 Sport, Norton Commando, John Player Norton, BMW R90S, Kawasaki Z-1, Honda CB-650, 09C-14
El Mirage Record Holder A-BG 3000cc 11/83 184.049 mph

Offline maxtog

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #30 on: September 04, 2017, 05:07:11 PM »
Severe thread drift!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #31 on: November 27, 2017, 07:08:49 AM »
ts been very warm here. I had my bike winterized, but when I saw 65 degrees, it became UN-winterised, screw that...

Off with the cover, and I ride the 14 200 miles.  Im still adjusting to the new bike. I know its not a new bike, but the way it runs has totally changed my interaction with it.

I notice, from the  dyno charts, the flashed 14 is more powerful than the zx14 until 5000rpm.

Even in 1st gear, that's over 70 mph. So, its more powerful, in an area I cannot even really access, legally.

The 14, flashed, is as smooth as a goldwing. I also have a 2012 Ninja 1000.  That was sort of filling my sportbike need, or for use, locally....as if I'd need to justify a second bike to you guys....I know you get it. Im not even sure why I have my ninja, to be really honest.  Its an excellent bike in its own right, but its just in it with this Ivan flashed 14.

I'll fix my 14's rear shock, maybe revalve the fork,and thats about it..perfection.

Its crazy, but this flash has be excited over a 10 year old bike!  Ivan also has a good, Holiday sale....10% of his ecu flash as well as discounts on the other items he offers.

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/ecu.htm

Offline maxtog

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #32 on: November 27, 2017, 03:25:09 PM »
Kawasaki left an amazing amount of responsiveness "on the table" available to those who reflash the computer.  It is a huge shame that it wasn't better off the bat.  At this point, it is unlikely Kawasaki will come out with a new version of the Concours (or any REAL sport-tourer for that matter); but if they did, having to wait for someone to come along and fix it up with a reflash (assuming it would need it, which is a pretty good assumption) would be a major negative.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #33 on: November 27, 2017, 07:34:57 PM »
To be fair to Kawasaki: because the induction circuit is not closed- loop, the EPA requires they err on the rich side to keep the catalytic converter 'lit' and working. The bike is too rich, pretty far too rich, from the factory but again, Kawasaki has to meet emission standards, a 50K mile test cycle and other things that those altering the tuning of the bike do not. So it is not as if 1) Kawasaki is incompetent or 2) They cannot make the bike run better, they are 'hamstrung' from the starting gate.

It is the same way with the exhaust; most complain about the stock exhaust being too heavy, too bulky and so forth but not one single aftermarket exhaust would ever make importation requirements if attached to a C-14 when put through the US vehicle certification process. So again, the tendency is to think Kawasaki is collectively stupid, incompetent and so forth when in reality, the manufacturers and the after market parts makers are playing by two different sets of rules. Or more accurately, the Mfg. is playing by a rigid set of rules and the aftermarket suppliers have none at all.

Brian

Kawasaki left an amazing amount of responsiveness "on the table" available to those who reflash the computer.  It is a huge shame that it wasn't better off the bat.  At this point, it is unlikely Kawasaki will come out with a new version of the Concours (or any REAL sport-tourer for that matter); but if they did, having to wait for someone to come along and fix it up with a reflash (assuming it would need it, which is a pretty good assumption) would be a major negative.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #34 on: November 27, 2017, 09:04:13 PM »
You don't have to tell me, I have said it many times in the past that Kawasaki has to meet strict fuel economy, emissions control, and noise regulations while also ensuring the bike runs reliably in all conditions.  The three are the bulk of the issue and strangle the bike a lot... Back with my ZRX, a "jet kit" solved a lot of the exact same problems and set the bike free like I couldn't believe.  It was even more dramatic with the Concours, not only because the regulations are even more strict, but with the ZRX the bike had zero control over the throttle, so there was none of that to undo.

I am saying it is a shame Kawasaki has to release the bike like it is.  I put most of the blame on mostly silly regulations.  Although there are some aspects that I think could have been better, even under those circumstances.  Even flashed to death, the Concours still gets far, far better fuel economy than any reasonable car, let's not even consider the zillions of SUVs.  And even with no O2 sensor and a lower-tech 2-way CAT, AND flashed, the emissions are probably still considerably less than my modern car.  I think about that often.  I also think about it every time I look around and see 95% of all cars carrying a single person with no cargo, especially all the nearly empty gas-guzzling SUVs and huge trucks.

And what has terminated the Concours in most of the world now, and will likely in the USA after next year?  Silly Euro-4 regulations in the EU pushing even more emissions control on motorcycles, already the most efficient ICE vehicles out there... [Despite that the regulations that apparently were easy to work around for the Concours' brother, the ZX-14R]
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2017, 07:30:01 AM »
This whole reflash thing really surprised me, to be honest.  I had a concept of what the engine might feel like due to having him flash my ninja, so I halfway expected the response...

What I did not expect was the vibration reduction, or fuel mileage. 

Both are noticeably better. The mileage is in the 50's on the occasions where I just flow with traffic, and keep it under 70. 

With regards to vibration, it never had much to begin with, but between the flash and my HVMP heavy bar ends,it has to be reduced by at least 50%, if not more.




Offline jerdurr

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2017, 07:00:20 PM »
This whole reflash thing really surprised me, to be honest.  I had a concept of what the engine might feel like due to having him flash my ninja, so I halfway expected the response...

What I did not expect was the vibration reduction, or fuel mileage. 

Both are noticeably better. The mileage is in the 50's on the occasions where I just flow with traffic, and keep it under 70. 

With regards to vibration, it never had much to begin with, but between the flash and my HVMP heavy bar ends,it has to be reduced by at least 50%, if not more.
HVMP? What is that? Please tell me more, my bike's vibration between 2500 and 3800 rpms is driving me mental.

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 04:21:54 AM »
Lots of things can cause vibration on these bikes.   It's not normal though.  I had some on my C14, right bar was the offender on mine (Heli bars).   Took off the Area P and put the OEM back on and it went down to nothing.  Could be the exhaust nuts are loose, could be engine mounts, could really be anything.
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Offline just gone

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 07:24:31 AM »
HVMP? What is that? Please tell me more, my bike's vibration between 2500 and 3800 rpms is driving me mental.

Here you go. We have too many "Mentals" driving here now.


Offline jerdurr

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Re: Ivans reflash for the Concours 14
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2017, 08:16:38 AM »
Here you go. We have too many "Mentals" driving here now.
Pretty funny Marty!

Sorry, I was under the impression that a forum was a place to share information, not to tell people go look for it yourself. But still, appreciate the effort you put in being sarcastic.
Looks like ZGGTR is starting to resemble COG...oh well.

cheers pal!