Kawasaki Concours Forum
Mish mash => Open Forum => Topic started by: VirginiaJim on April 08, 2020, 02:22:29 PM
-
As the other thread got closed I'm starting a new one. It's going to be more of a discussion on how we're coping or not. And it will be non-political and civil.
I certainly got overwhelmed with it a week ago. Backed out of here and closed FB down. On top of that the company decided to roll out a new and improved time and attendance application which was a bazillion more times complicated than what we were currently using. And to top it off, it was a very dismal day here. I had a melt down. Not the crazy kind but more of a depression kind.
So, I told my immediate supervisor that I wasn't going to use the new app, but I will use what we already have that works quite nicely for what I do. I then scheduled a ride with my wife and a friend and went into western VA for the day this past Friday. Had two friends over Sunday for a meal outdoors. And I'm going to get refilled on my my favorite German beer this evening. I don't think I'm going to re-activate FB anytime soon, though.
Food Lion still has food but no paper products. Not too worried about that as my wife has other grocery stores she can tap much better than Food Lion.
Watching quite a bit of YouTube and Amazon video. We don't get Netflix.
Hope all of you are coping with this..
-
Not too frantic here. The wife and I are both working in health care but not seeing a lot of covid action as we are pretty rural. Looking forward to getting things opened up again as soon as feasibly possible. Paper goods, while not overly abundant, are available as needed. A daily afternoon ride around the lakes goes a long way.
-
Actually had a pleasant trip to Walmart for shopping on Sunday at 10am. First time I have been to a store in 2 or 3 weeks. I wore a mask and gloves, seems like about half the other people were, also. No lines, plenty of space. They even had eggs. I got everything on my list and there was no line at the self-checkout. I was shocked. Maybe I just picked the right time.
Supposedly, the day after (which was Monday), they started limiting how many people can go into the store and there was a line wrapping around the store (according to a co-worker). So for once, I feel a bit lucky. I don't handle long/slow lines very well.
One of my employees is still in the ICU from COVID-19; 7 days, now.
-
Glad all of you are doing ok! My wife is in health care and my daughter as well but the daughter is working out of my home.
-
It's very scary here Jim, although in Northern Ireland we haven't experienced the effects as badly as on the U.K mainland where death figures are horrendous
U.K statistics
Confirmed 65,077
Recovered ?
Deaths 7,978
It may be that the 'peak' is imminent,
Many of us know folks who have been stricken down with this virus or at least directly affected by it....it knows no boundaries and has no respect
Without being too dramatic, I don't think life as we know it will ever be the same again
-
U.K statistics Deaths 7,978
Here are the numbers for the annual seasonal [regular] flu-related deaths for just England (not Britain/UK):
2014/15: 28,330
2015/16: 11,875
2016/17: 18,009
2017/18: 24,408
Here are the numbers for the annual seasonal [regular] flu-related deaths in the USA:
2014/15: 51,000
2015/16: 23,000
2016/17: 38,000
2017/18: 61,000
-
If the covid season runs about 4 months like the flu season what's you extrapolated death toll?
-
If the covid season runs about 4 months like the flu season what's you extrapolated death toll?
I couldn't begin to guess. Simply not enough data. It isn't a matter of just saying "perhaps we are halfway through" and multiply it times 2. We still don't even know how long recovered immunity lasts. Or even an estimate of how many have been exposed, never tested, and recovered. And, of course, this isn't the typical flu. One thing for sure, if it spread too quickly and our healthcare system were overwhelmed, it would be devastating (since a large portion of the deaths can be avoided with healthcare support). So we need to keep the severe case numbers below our capacity to deal with it.
-
Setting here in Houston. Bored and playing on the Computer.
Last few weeks have been too much TV, and staring at the Computer.
But I have slight COPD, which makes me higher risk, so here I set..
I would enjoy a ride. (Even though riding around Houston is not much fun)
But, I made the mistake of letting my plates expire on the bike.
Have to go to the Courthouse or other to get new, and that isn't going to happen.
Avoiding going to public places as much as I can.
As far as comparing the death rates of the Virus vs the flue. Social distancing and Stay at Home are slowing this Virus.
I feel, if we hadn't done these, the death rates would be much closer to what we see with the Flu.
This Virus seems to be wildly contagious.
I realize that these notes seem to be Doom and Gloom, and,,, the Media/etc may be blowing this out of proportion.
But we all have to do what we can to follow the guidelines.
Ya'll be safe!
Ride safe, Ted
-
It's very scary here Jim, although in Northern Ireland we haven't experienced the effects as badly as on the U.K mainland where death figures are horrendous
U.K statistics
Confirmed 65,077
Recovered ?
Deaths 7,978
It may be that the 'peak' is imminent,
Many of us know folks who have been stricken down with this virus or at least directly affected by it....it knows no boundaries and has no respect
Without being too dramatic, I don't think life as we know it will ever be the same again
Someone I didn't know, that touched my life, died in Scotland this past week. SAS....God Bless them and all the militarys across the world helping us out.
-
If the covid season runs about 4 months like the flu season what's you extrapolated death toll?
It's not good. While NY may be seeing some rays of hope...the rest of the country is just ramping up I fear.
-
We live in a rural area 110 miles northeast of New Orleans where its very bad. Here in my parish only 38 cases and no deaths. I miss my gym and lunch rides the most. The weather has been nice and I have been riding every day but not stopping anywhere except for gas. I have been running 6 miles 3 times a week to keep in shape. Our family tradition for Good FRiday has been to throw a crawfish boil for my wife's brothers and their families but today it will be just the wife and I and one step-son.
-
Our family tradition for Good FRiday has been to throw a crawfish boil for my wife's brothers and their families but today it will be just the wife and I and one step-son.
I usually visit with friends 2 to 3 times a week and eat out. Has been three weeks with none and it is starting to become annoying/depressing. No weekly range time also is somewhat annoying, but I don't mind a break from that, at least not yet.
-
I would enjoy a ride. (Even though riding around Houston is not much fun)
But, I made the mistake of letting my plates expire on the bike.
Have to go to the Courthouse or other to get new, and that isn't going to happen.
Luckily, here in Ohio, the Gov laid out the plan, and said "plate/registrations" are a non issue.. as they closed all the EPA testing centers for 4 wheel, and walk in BMV is closed.. so we can run "expired stickers" until they open again...
2 days before they shut us all down, I got EPA tests and stickers on all the trucks.. and renewed my D/L.. fate... but lucky..
It's good to have a govt. that has some sensibility, and pushes things around, to make do. meanwhile, I snicker, as even tho they can't really read the expiration date, on my plate sticker, even if they did, they would have to say "just go home..."...
-
Luckily, here in Ohio, the Gov laid out the plan, and said "plate/registrations" are a non issue.. as they closed all the EPA testing centers for 4 wheel, and walk in BMV is closed.. so we can run "expired stickers" until they open again...
...
Same here in CO, DOT basically shut down. No title transfers, emissions, D/L renews for something like 60 days. Do the best you can, carry paperwork, and don't plan to get off scott free if your plates are two years expired ;)
Same for FAA (y'all know I'm a pilot). I have to get checked every two years, Commercial pilots every year, and ATP (747 type pilots) every six months. FAA basically said "yer fine for now, but don't do nuttin stoopid until we get this sorted out".
If ya wanna go for a ride, nothing really stopping you. Something recently popped into my feeble brane though, some/all/none of you might want to ponder.
Most all of us have been in lockdown for 2-6 weeks to prevent/reduce the spread of Covid-19. It's brutal, but I think it's the right thing to do. This story is somewhat relevant: https://durangoherald.com/articles/319788
If most of us are practicing isolation, or limiting our contact with the outside world, it shouldn't take a rocket surgeon to show that CV cases would drop at some arbitrary time, perhaps precipitously. I mean if we're not out and about, we can't catch it or transmit it. The chart of reported cases has no dips, why? Does the virus stay viable for days/weeks on a surface? Does it stay viable in the air? For how long? If it does, is six feet adequate? Can I be a carrier yet not show any symptoms (Typhoid Mary)? Am I immune to it once I catch it, and if I'm in that boat, can I re-infect others? Are we being led around by those in authority? The media? (best not reply to the last two question, else Jim gets out his sword ;) )
Rick
-
And it's now a flaming sword...I'm just giddy with power at the moment..LOL. We can thank Marty for that!
-
We've been out on limited rides here in VA. Usually just the wife and myself and we had one ride with another person. Nowhere to stop and eat really so we either eat before or take something with us. No one has bothered us (LEO's) either.
-
We've been out on limited rides here in VA. Usually just the wife and myself and we had one ride with another person. Nowhere to stop and eat really so we either eat before or take something with us. No one has bothered us (LEO's) either.
Did this third person ride behind your wife or between you and her? :o
-
I led, he led... The wife rode with me. Don't forget the sword, Mr. Pink......lol.
On another note we took the truck down to Newport News to the Indian dealer down there and then came back 60 through Williamsburg, VA. Essentially a ghost town. I've never seen it like that and I don't know how they'll survive. Busch Gardens....dead. Colonial Williamsburg....dead. The 60 strip....dead. The Pottery more dead than usual. If this don't kill them nothing will.
How about in your areas? Those tourist towns that depend on out of towners to live? Anyone been to Las Vegas recently?
-
...
On another note we took the truck down to Newport News to the Indian dealer down there and then came back 60 through Williamsburg, VA. Essentially a ghost town. I've never seen it like that and I don't know how they'll survive. Busch Gardens....dead. Colonial Williamsburg....dead. The 60 strip....dead. The Pottery more dead than usual. If this don't kill them nothing will.
...
No doubt some are suffering, or will be. We can do something though, and it could be considered trivial, but may help. I went to the local Safeway on my B-day, posted the following on my FakeBook page. Take it for what it's worth, perhaps it'll hit a cord for some of you that know a server or service person. Flip them a twenty 'just because'.
(quote)
Birthday, I can be a jerk if I want. Went shopping, Safeway, store was reasonably stocked. Head of lettuce, tonic water, and some other chit. New 'roving' employee spraying and wiping handles, sneeze guards at checkout lanes, markers on floor for safe distancing at checkout.
I was #2 for checkout, customer on the runway was just finishing up. #1 for checkout sneezed into his left hand, Dora (cashier) noticed and shoved the sanitizer bottle to him. I'm on final, my goods on conveyor, wheels now down.
Dora and I chat as I slip my chip card into the terminal and punch in $60 cash back. Dora scans and bags, I grab the bags and put in my cart. Receipt prints out, Dora places an assortment of folding money in her palm, rips the receipt off the printer, folds it, places it on the stack of bills, and tops it off with two Monopoly cards.
Here's where "jerk" comes in. Dora extends her hand with the paperwork, I reach around the sneeze guard and gently place my thumb and first finger between the receipt and tickets, leaving only the bills in her palm. Her smile changes to "deer in the headlight". I say "that's for you, perhaps you'd like to share it with your friends on the front line". Still "deer in the headlight", but her eyes are now tearing up.
Social distancing and all, I KNEW we couldn't exchange a handshake/fist bump, much less a hug. Dora did too. I beat a hasty exit to avoid stepping in a pile of tears, I said I'd see them in a couple of weeks, and thanks.
The one time I loved being a jerk, I'd like to think some of my friends can be jerks too, if they want.
(end quote)
Rick
-
Thanks for that, Rick. I've been doing that at our local German restaurant in Fredericksburg. Only the owner and other chefs are working doing take out but all the money is going to the wait staff as the owner is continuing to pay them. He also keeps me supplied in bier. I usually add extra money on the bill for them.
You know Williamsburg, VA is a tourist town and things can be shaky at best for some of the local businesses. You always see a restaurant or two not making it through the winter. The Colonial Williamsburg Foundation is always having financial worries. And don't get me started on the Pottery.. It was surreal going through that town with virtually no one at the hotels, restaurants, and stores.
Went in to the local Indian dealer in Fredericksurg and there was no one on the floor. You could hear an echo. One person on the phone and the owner was in the office. Eventually the staff filtered back on to the floor and we started chatting about things. They are selling bikes but not to the point of where it should be. I think most of us still employed and in the IMRGF (Indian Motorcycle Rider's Group) try to go in at least once a week and buy something from them. This dealer is more like a family to most of us. Best relationship I've ever had with a dealer of vehicles.
-
We've had a few people treat us real nice where I'm at in Northern VA with tips in our delivery zones for the Dominos I work for. The dealer I work at as well has shortened hours and our slow season hasn't really picked up too much. Idk how long we'll stay open for given the current situation.
Definitely a stressful time, doesn't help having an 8 month old. I'm just glad my wife can keep working from home because I don't think I'll be seeing much of an income if this continues to get worse. But, as I keep telling myself and my friends that are out of work, we'll get through this and find a way. As long as we keep waking up every day, we'll be alright.
-
Best wishes to you and good luck!
-
Well, the lockdown period in the RSA was supposed to end yesterday, but got extended by 2 weeks, a week ago...(Make sense?)
So we were in day 14 of 21, and the next day it was day 1 of 21, Season 2.
My booze is almost out, and smokes are running low. Black market is also nearing it's end now, as nobody has stock, and the cops destroy everything if the catch you with it.
Yesterday, our government announced that they will "ease it out of lockdown". F@ck knows what that means.....
As long as I stay home, I don't get paid, so don't know WTF I'm gonna do to cover my debit orders for house, car, insurances, etc. I wont be paying my kids' school fees this month, that's ma promise.
Enough bitching though..... seeing the other post got blocked, I couldn't add the Biltong recipe for you okes, so here is the link.
https://www.greedyferret.com/perfect-biltong-recipe-south-african-beef-jerky (https://www.greedyferret.com/perfect-biltong-recipe-south-african-beef-jerky)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2gvK8wp5e0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2gvK8wp5e0)
Apologies for not making it myself and showing you, as the $$ are a bit tight at the moment.
I'll remember to take photos the next time I make biltong....
PS, the biltong box has a normal globe as well as an extractor fan in it.
Let me know how your biltong comes out please?
:chugbeer: :chugbeer:
-
It's very scary here Jim, although in Northern Ireland we haven't experienced the effects as badly as on the U.K mainland where death figures are horrendous
U.K statistics
Confirmed 65,077
Recovered ?
Deaths 7,978
It may be that the 'peak' is imminent,
Many of us know folks who have been stricken down with this virus or at least directly affected by it....it knows no boundaries and has no respect
Without being too dramatic, I don't think life as we know it will ever be the same again
Here are the numbers for the annual seasonal [regular] flu-related deaths for just England (not Britain/UK):
2014/15: 28,330
2015/16: 11,875
2016/17: 18,009
2017/18: 24,408
Here are the numbers for the annual seasonal [regular] flu-related deaths in the USA:
2014/15: 51,000
2015/16: 23,000
2016/17: 38,000
2017/18: 61,000
Perhaps I'm missing something here Max? What point were you hoping to make with this comparison?
-
Perhaps I'm missing something here Max? What point were you hoping to make with this comparison?
It helps to put it into perspective, because many people tend to forget how many die from the normal "flu" every year; year after year after year. And those who die are typically the same as with COVID19, those with per-existing health conditions (and I am in that category, unfortunately). Is is also interesting to note the considerable variation year to year (2017/18 was almost triple 2015/16, for example). Although there is a long way to go with COVID19, we (USA) still haven't even passed the number of flu deaths in 2014, much less last year. And we have successfully prevented overwhelming the health system, which is good. I have no doubt it will exceed last year's flu, however, probably by a lot (because this is a novel coronavirus, we have near zero natural immunity, no proven treatment yet, and no vaccine yet).
Of course, we also don't know the number of "regular" flu deaths for 2019/2020 (flu season isn't really completely over yet). It will be interesting to see what those numbers are, or if any got moved into the COVID19 category in error (and how would we even know, since my understanding is that only a fraction of claimed COVID19-related deaths were actually tested), or vice-versa. Current preliminary estimates are between 24,000 and 62,000 (for the USA). I had the normal "flu" in 2008 and 2015, and I am vaccinated every year (for, I think, at least the last 20 years).
Since the flu season is now ending, that will be an additional burden off all nations' health systems, which is more good news. It is a good time to start easing off on "lockdown" to prevent the economy from more extreme damage. Those in higher risk groups, unfortunately, will still have to take great precautions; possibly for a very long time, only ending when an effective treatment and/or vaccine is available. I have my fingers crossed, because since I have asthma and other issues, I am reasonably scared of what would happen if I get infected.
-
I think Conrad's question, was relative... i.e., that "comparo between England, and the USA" is the point.. seeing as the USA pretty much covers over the complete map of Europe, area wise..
That said, I have NEVER had a flu shot, and won't.. back in '70's (iirc), when the swine? flu hit here in Ohio, I used to car pool to work with a guy that lived near me. He was a vegatarian, and a few years older than me.. very "picky" eater.. he got the flu shot at work, and the next day, when I went to pick him up, he opened the door and told me.. he was BLIND... totally lost his eyesight, and was that way for 8 weeks.. I would go take him food,(and food for his cats) and to doctors visits.. really made me think.
-
It would seem that the data would be more relevant if it was a per capita comparison.
-
I think Conrad's question, was relative... i.e., that "comparo between England, and the USA" is the point.
Oh. I didn't think of that. I thought the question was comparing the flu to COVID19. I wasn't addressing the difference between England and the USA. I added the USA statistics, because the majority of those on the forum are from the USA and not England (or Britain) and thought it would be interesting to see both. Directly comparing the two location's total deaths is meaningless, primarily because it is not per capita.
That said, I have NEVER had a flu shot, and won't..[...]
There is a slight risk with all vaccines because different people's immune systems will react to it differently. Generally, they are quite safe, and the risk is far outweighed by the positives. In the case of the flu, the danger in having the flu are generally very low for most people. So I can understand those balancing the risk/reward of that vaccine very differently than, say, polio. Polio can be devastating, so one would have to factor that into the equation. In my case, I have pre-existing conditions which make having the flu much more risky than most people, and I also work around many others who also have pre-existing conditions and many who are actively sick and/or have compromised immune systems, so it becomes a much higher priority that I am immunized.
Thankfully, I have never known anyone who had any kind of permanent injury from a flu vaccine. I do know a few who developed short-lived, mild, flu-like symptoms because their immune systems over-reacted. Interestingly, those few didn't have that reaction on every flu vaccine.
-
Perhaps I'm missing something here Max? What point were you hoping to make with this comparison?
It helps to put it into perspective, because many people tend to forget how many die from the normal "flu" every year; year after year after year. And those who die are typically the same as with COVID19, those with per-existing health conditions (and I am in that category, unfortunately). Is is also interesting to note the considerable variation year to year (2017/18 was almost triple 2015/16, for example). Although there is a long way to go with COVID19, we (USA) still haven't even passed the number of flu deaths in 2014, much less last year. And we have successfully prevented overwhelming the health system, which is good. I have no doubt it will exceed last year's flu, however, probably by a lot (because this is a novel coronavirus, we have near zero natural immunity, no proven treatment yet, and no vaccine yet).
Of course, we also don't know the number of "regular" flu deaths for 2019/2020 (flu season isn't really completely over yet). It will be interesting to see what those numbers are, or if any got moved into the COVID19 category in error (and how would we even know, since my understanding is that only a fraction of claimed COVID19-related deaths were actually tested), or vice-versa. Current preliminary estimates are between 24,000 and 62,000 (for the USA). I had the normal "flu" in 2008 and 2015, and I am vaccinated every year (for, I think, at least the last 20 years).
Since the flu season is now ending, that will be an additional burden off all nations' health systems, which is more good news. It is a good time to start easing off on "lockdown" to prevent the economy from more extreme damage. Those in higher risk groups, unfortunately, will still have to take great precautions; possibly for a very long time, only ending when an effective treatment and/or vaccine is available. I have my fingers crossed, because since I have asthma and other issues, I am reasonably scared of what would happen if I get infected.
I think Conrad's question, was relative... i.e., that "comparo between England, and the USA" is the point.. seeing as the USA pretty much covers over the complete map of Europe, area wise..
That said, I have NEVER had a flu shot, and won't.. back in '70's (iirc), when the swine? flu hit here in Ohio, I used to car pool to work with a guy that lived near me. He was a vegatarian, and a few years older than me.. very "picky" eater.. he got the flu shot at work, and the next day, when I went to pick him up, he opened the door and told me.. he was BLIND... totally lost his eyesight, and was that way for 8 weeks.. I would go take him food,(and food for his cats) and to doctors visits.. really made me think.
My question about your point contained both of the above. I just wanted to know what you were about here and I didn't want to make the same mistake I have previously and jump to the wrong conclusion.
Yes, the flu numbers are still WAY higher than the C-19 numbers but you do have to remember that those are annual counts, 12 months worth. C-19 has only been killing folks in the US since February, 2/6/20, according to the latest data from California.
I'm with MOB on the annual flu shots. I've never had one. My wife gets one every year and she's been after me to do the same. I've refused in the past but this year may be different...
-
I've had flu shots as long as they've been out starting from about 1968 or so. Still alive. I will say that the first one in 1968 made all of us sicky. I haven't had any issues (knock on wood) since that time. And will continue to get the shots as long as they are provided.
I'm not as much worried about the actual 'normal' Flu, I'm more worried about the side effects such as pneumonia. A possible side effect of Covid is now coming to light such as blood clots. This is interesting as my son in law's mother came up with that and had to be taken to the hospital. They treated that and then found another one in her leg. Tested her for Covid and she did not have it but they did not test for antibodies either.
I'm not saying that what she had was directly related to Covid but at this point I think everything is on the table as far as possible side effects.
-
Looks like some states are opening up gradually whether they have plateaued with cases or not. I'm torn on the disease vs the economics of the pandemic. It's a real hard decision on what to open up and how to do it. It really doesn't make any difference to me if they open or not though. I won't start visiting places again like normal until they have a vaccine for the virus. Definitely won't attend any large groups or rides or travel on public transportation like airlines until a vaccine is out.
Drove out to Colonial Beach just to get out of the house yesterday afternoon. Went by a house there on the inlet and the garage was packed with people (it was raining). I've been wondering where the new cases keep coming from and I guess I found my answer.
-
It really doesn't make any difference to me if they open or not though. I won't start visiting places again like normal until they have a vaccine for the virus. Definitely won't attend any large groups or rides or travel on public transportation like airlines until a vaccine is out.
Education + freedom is a good thing. Since I am high-risk, I will continue to be careful and taking precautions (like you), regardless of what is open or not.
I am getting low on paper towels, which I buy about once every two years or so (typically "bundle" of Kirkland brand). I do hope people will stop stupidly hoarding.
-
Right.....people stopping hoarding. I laugh in your general direction.
-
actually, up here in Ohio, we have found that things like TP and such, have gradually returned to the stores, as the "hoarders" have seemed to reached "maximum capacity" on their stock pile storage space..
-
actually, up here in Ohio, we have found that things like TP and such, have gradually returned to the stores, as the "hoarders" have seemed to reached "maximum capacity" on their stock pile storage space..
I can picture closets, garages, and attics full of TP to fight the virus.
-
I can picture closets, garages, and attics full of TP to fight the virus.
speaking of closets.. wee turned our linen closet into our wine bottle storage.. no shortage of that now.. and a wise use of space.. I'm off to check the "supply" and freshness... again...
-
speaking of closets.. wee turned our linen closet into our wine bottle storage.. no shortage of that now.. and a wise use of space.. I'm off to check the "supply" and freshness... again...
I have to admit, part of one of my bedrooms is filled with stacks of Premiere Protein drinks. I am not hoarding, but I buy it in bulk when it goes on sale at Costco because it is $7 off per case, which is a lot of money saved (I drink one as breakfast every day). Unfortunately, there is a limit of 2 per visit, so it takes quite a few trips. It has about a year shelf life, and it goes on sale about every 6 to 9 months. So I stockpile enough to get me to the next sale. It does act as a nice "emergency ration" though, I suppose.... as long as it can be consumed cold.
-
We celebrated our 43 wedding anniversary last week, pandemic style.
(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=861)
-
We celebrated our 43 wedding anniversary last week, pandemic style.
Congratulations!
-
We celebrated our 43 wedding anniversary last week, pandemic style.
Absolutely without question congratulations to you and yours...
-
We celebrated our 43 wedding anniversary last week, pandemic style.
(http://www.zggtr.org/MGalleryItem.php?id=861)
congrats...
Love the space man hoodie's...
Dona and I celebrated on the 6th of April, but didn't mask up.. we're still young..
-
Thank you gentlemen!
congrats...
Love the space man hoodie's...
Dona and I celebrated on the 6th of April, but didn't mask up.. we're still young..
I think...
-
Well I guess it's going to be up to me to say it since others didn't.
Mr. C, that pot lid does wonders for your face, but it just isn't right for Mrs C.
maybe next year you wear two lids and she none? 8)
Congrats to both of you!
-
Well I guess it's going to be up to me to say it since others didn't. Mr. C, that pot lid does wonders for your face
Oh! I kept staring at it, trying to figure out what the hell it was!
-
Hmmm...pot and lid in the same sentence. Sounds like some are enjoying stay at home too much methinks.
-
smoke 'em if ya got'em...
-
smoke 'em if ya got'em...
Self medicating during the pandemic. :thumbs: :cool:
-
We ventured out yesterday to Menards (home improvement store similar to Lowes). This is the first time that we've gone to any store other than a grocery store since the **** has hit the fan here in Illinois.
I saw one person without a mask, idiot.
I also saw three people who apparently don't know how to wear a damn mask properly. They did not have the mask over their nose, maybe they're mouth breathers? I almost asked them, I came thisclose. My wife would have been mortified if I had.
One of those without their noses inside the mask was a woman and she was coughing like crazy. :o
-
Why is a person not wearing a mask an idiot?
Did you ever wear a mask before now?
Why not?
Is there any proof wearing a mask will prevent anything?
I went to Menards twice last week. Yesterday I went and they required masks!
If you didn't have one they would gladly sell you one for a buck.
Where are they getting so many masks? Are these masks certified as being medical grade? In this area dentists closed and gave their masks to doctors. Now they can't get any. But Menards can?
Why are they requiring them NOW?
-
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/)
Sorry Mr. C, but perhaps he/she wasn't an idiot. However I wear a mask when out, and I stay further away from those that don't
than I do from those that do...just in case. :-\
I was out yesterday, and while in a "Healthy grocery store" (Sprouts) I only noticed one shopper without a mask. Then I drove by an adjacent TJ Max store
that had a waiting line to get in where the folks in the line had absolutely NO masks (not one visible) and were standing on average only 3 feet apart. I think
there must be a lot of people out there that have no idea what 6ft looks like horizontally.
-
There are cases where some people cannot wear a mask because they have pulmonary issues. Some people will de-saturate when forced to "rebreathe" a lot of their own exhalation. Of course, it is more likely they just don't care.... but we can't know.
Wearing a [cloth/paper] mask inside, can be helpful. It can help prevent the spread of droplets which typically occur from sneezing, coughing, and talking. They are of limited to zero value outside, unless you are close to others. Although they can help to remind people to be careful and help to remind users not to touch their nose/mouth/face with unwashed hands, which is the #1 way most viruses are spread.
Cloth/paper masks will do almost nothing to stop "airborne" viruses (those that are are not trapped in droplets). Even N95 masks are not that effective unless they are perfectly fitted (which, from what I have seen, is rare).
-
We ventured out yesterday to Menards (home improvement store similar to Lowes). This is the first time that we've gone to any store other than a grocery store since the **** has hit the fan here in Illinois.
I saw one person without a mask, idiot.
I also saw three people who apparently don't know how to wear a damn mask properly. They did not have the mask over their nose, maybe they're mouth breathers? I almost asked them, I came thisclose. My wife would have been mortified if I had.
One of those without their noses inside the mask was a woman and she was coughing like crazy. :o
Why is a person not wearing a mask an idiot?
Did you ever wear a mask before now?
Why not?
Is there any proof wearing a mask will prevent anything?
I went to Menards twice last week. Yesterday I went and they required masks!
If you didn't have one they would gladly sell you one for a buck.
Where are they getting so many masks? Are these masks certified as being medical grade? In this area dentists closed and gave their masks to doctors. Now they can't get any. But Menards can?
Why are they requiring them NOW?
"Why is a person not wearing a mask an idiot?" ===> I'm assuming that they were born that way? Maybe ignorance, but more likely it's stupidity. Or perhaps she was confused by the conflicting messages from fedgov?
If you're asking why I personally think that person is an idiot. Maybe you can think on that for a moment and discover the reason for yourself? The governor of Illinois has mandated that EVERYONE MUST wear a mask when in public when a 6 foot distance can not be maintained when outside and when inside, a mask must be worn at all times.
"Did you ever wear a mask before now?" ===> I've been wearing a mask when I'm out in public since the middle of March. Why do you ask?
"Why not?" ===> Why not what?
"Is there any proof wearing a mask will prevent anything?" ===> What? No, of course not, masks do nothing at all. That's why they're used during surgery, because they do nothing to prevent the spread of microorganisms.
As for the rest of your intelligent questions? You'll have to ask the folks at Menards.
-
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/)
Sorry Mr. C, but perhaps he/she wasn't an idiot. However I wear a mask when out, and I stay further away from those that don't
than I do from those that do...just in case. :-\
I was out yesterday, and while in a "Healthy grocery store" (Sprouts) I only noticed one shopper without a mask. Then I drove by an adjacent TJ Max store
that had a waiting line to get in where the folks in the line had absolutely NO masks (not one visible) and were standing on average only 3 feet apart. I think
there must be a lot of people out there that have no idea what 6ft looks like horizontally.
Are you saying that respiratory masks do nothing to prevent the spread of microorganisms? It appears so from your statement? Why are you wearing a mask if so?
-
There are cases where some people cannot wear a mask because they have pulmonary issues. Some people will de-saturate when forced to "rebreathe" a lot of their own exhalation. Of course, it is more likely they just don't care.... but we can't know.
Wearing a [cloth/paper] mask inside, can be helpful. It can help prevent the spread of droplets which typically occur from sneezing, coughing, and talking. They are of limited to zero value outside, unless you are close to others. Although they can help to remind people to be careful and help to remind users not to touch their nose/mouth/face with unwashed hands, which is the #1 way most viruses are spread.
Cloth/paper masks will do almost nothing to stop "airborne" viruses (those that are are not trapped in droplets). Even N95 masks are not that effective unless they are perfectly fitted (which, from what I have seen, is rare).
"There are cases where some people cannot wear a mask because they have pulmonary issues. Some people will de-saturate when forced to "rebreathe" a lot of their own exhalation. Of course, it is more likely they just don't care.... but we can't know." ===> Maybe a person in this condition shouldn't be out in public at all?
"Wearing a [cloth/paper] mask inside, can be helpful. It can help prevent the spread of droplets which typically occur from sneezing, coughing, and talking. They are of limited to zero value outside, unless you are close to others. Although they can help to remind people to be careful and help to remind users not to touch their nose/mouth/face with unwashed hands, which is the #1 way most viruses are spread." ===> If you're outside, away from others, you don't need a mask. So it's effectiveness in this case it moot.
"Cloth/paper masks will do almost nothing to stop "airborne" viruses (those that are are not trapped in droplets). Even N95 masks are not that effective unless they are perfectly fitted (which, from what I have seen, is rare)." ===> I can't argue with that. The virus is much smaller than what these masks have been designed to filter out. I'm no doctor (where have you heard that before?) but I doubt that there's a ton of free floating virus particles in the air around us. I'd guess that most of those virus particles can be found in the aerosol droplets coming out of people's mouths and noses. Those particles can be filtered by masks. Perhaps not 100% but it sure is better than not wearing a mask!
-
Are you saying that respiratory masks do nothing to prevent the spread of microorganisms? It appears so from your statement? Why are you wearing a mask if so?
No, I'm saying what was in the link I provided.
The efficacy of face masks against the spread of COVID-19 is unknown.
...and again, the reason I'm wearing a mask ...https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/ (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/covid-19-mask-efficacy-chart/)
However I wear a mask when out, and I stay further away from those that don't
than I do from those that do...just in case. :-\
-
"There are cases where some people cannot wear a mask because they have pulmonary issues. Some people will de-saturate when forced to "rebreathe" a lot of their own exhalation.
Maybe a person in this condition shouldn't be out in public at all?
Some don't have a choice. They live alone and have nobody to get food, help with taking in their sick pet, visit the doctor, etc. Granted, they are certainly a small number of people, but I was just making a point that there are people for whom wearing a mask isn't an option in at least some situations.
-
The IL governor.....
That right there is all the reason NOT to do it.
Doctors wear them.....and people still get sick from operations.
Still no proof the mask does anything.
You have been wearing a mask since March....why not last year or the year before or the year before....the flu killed tens of thousands every year.
I'm going to wear a paper or cloth mask to stop micro organisms....and I'm putting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitos.
-
The big numbers pushed are always about how many positive cases there are. So what? If you're sick stay home. As of this morning, in southern ILL-inois, we had THREE ( 3 ) inpatients in the hospital with a viral respiratory disease but Comrade Pritzker has dictated that I still can't get a haircut. If you'all damn Yankees need to be locked down have at it but this does not require a totalitarian police state. The best way to destroy capitalism is to kill capital. Look around. We won't like the aftermath of what's being done to the economy in the name of safety. This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't. Continuing these police state tactics shows it is no longer about our health...it's about control of people. If it was the governments' job to protect us from getting sick why is there still the flu? Why is Chairman Pritzker trying to get billions to bail out a failed state built into the 'crisis relief' bill in congress? This behavior from our so-called leaders around the country just reinforces the fact that politicians do not act in our best interest but in their own.
So Conrad I ask you, 'Who's the bigger idiot..the guy who wasn't wearing a mask or the guy who willing follows the rest of the sheep to the slaughterhouse?' Enjoy your lockdown.
-
....
I'm going to wear a paper or cloth mask to stop micro organisms....and I'm putting up a chain link fence to stop mosquitos.
Can't speak for cheesecloth/fabric masks, but regulation/certified N-95 masks filter out .1 micron particles with 95% efficacy. Corona is ~.15 microns. Red blood cells ~10 microns, a human hair 10-100 microns.
I've seen the chain link fence meme too, it's a funny analogy but inaccurate. The fence would need to be on the order of 10,000 layers thick to scale to a N-95 mask, and the 'skeeters would need to be a tad larger too. Say Alaska or Minnesnowta size ;)
Rick
-
The big numbers pushed are always about how many positive cases there are. So what? If you're sick stay home. As of this morning, in southern ILL-inois, we had THREE ( 3 ) inpatients in the hospital with a viral respiratory disease but Comrade Pritzker has dictated that I still can't get a haircut. If you'all damn Yankees need to be locked down have at it but this does not require a totalitarian police state. The best way to destroy capitalism is to kill capital. Look around. We won't like the aftermath of what's being done to the economy in the name of safety. This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't. Continuing these police state tactics shows it is no longer about our health...it's about control of people. If it was the governments' job to protect us from getting sick why is there still the flu? Why is Chairman Pritzker trying to get billions to bail out a failed state built into the 'crisis relief' bill in congress? This behavior from our so-called leaders around the country just reinforces the fact that politicians do not act in our best interest but in their own.
So Conrad I ask you, 'Who's the bigger idiot..the guy who wasn't wearing a mask or the guy who willing follows the rest of the sheep to the slaughterhouse?' Enjoy your lockdown.
+1 Almost the same here for us massholes with our Rino Gov. What ever happened to "Live free or Die"? Now it's "Get in line or go to Jail"! And believe me, we've got plenty of room because we let LOTS of prisoners OUT!
-
I am seeing ads for N95 masks marked "not medical grade".
Plus I am seeing studies showing wearing a mask can actually hurt more than help and increases the risk of hypoxia.
Conrad, you haven't said if you wore masks during flu season.
I will take it by your stating you started this March that you answer is NO.
If I am correct, why not?
50 K or so deaths from the flu would warrant wearing one.
-
I am seeing ads for N95 masks marked "not medical grade".
Generally, that just means they have not been lab tested/confirmed. They aren't necessarily any less effective at filtration than a medical grade one.
Plus I am seeing studies showing wearing a mask can actually hurt more than help
In some cases, yes. The biggest factor probably being a "false sense of security", where users of cloth/paper masks think they are risk-free or over-estimate how effective they are. Other factors: re-wearing contaminated masks that are not clean, more touching of the face with unclean hands to constantly adjust the mask, accidentally wearing them "inside out" when not clean.
and increases the risk of hypoxia.
Yep, I addressed that as a reason that not everyone can wear a mask.
50 K or so deaths from the flu would warrant wearing one.
It can, yes. In a healthcare setting, absolutely. And it is not uncommon in peak normal flu season for healthcare workers to isolate and use masks. In a setting where you are a high-risk person and will be near others possibly affected, it is advisable. The novel flu virus that causes COVID-19 is more dangerous because it spreads more easily, can cause more severe symptoms in some people, and is novel with no vaccine for it (so the population has very little natural immunity to it, yet). So it makes sense to use more precautions than with non-novel flu, including simple masks.
N95 masks are a different story. Those have almost no place in the general population use. They are very restrictive, in short supply, are not effective if not properly fitted, offer no better protection for typical/casual exposure for the flu, and probably don't reduce droplet spread any better than just simple (paper/cloth) masks. It is "overkill", except for front-line healthcare workers.
Since droplet is one of the primary transmission vectors of all flu (of which COVID-19 is a member), simple masks (paper/cloth) can be effective at helping to prevent the spread. This doesn't mean I support the general "orders"/"laws" that require using "a mask" anytime you are outside your home. They are appropriate for when you can't social-distance and should be encouraged. As you probably already know, I strongly support civil liberties and individual rights. The government can and should:
* Educate
* Warn
* Study
* Collect and provide statistics
* Help to organize and distribute emergency containment supplies and gear
* Set guidelines for government workers
Those should be more than sufficient in this matter. Social pressure can/will do the rest. But "ordering" people around does not mesh with a free society. Neither does turning non-users into criminals or encouraging neighbors to "spy" on you and "report you to authorities." The legal authority to do so is dubious, at best. It sets a bad precedent. And it can [and usually does] backfire by creating resentment and conflict. Life is complicated and individuals need the ability to make their own decisions based on their own risk assessments. Just like riding a motorcycle :)
-
Wow, there's a surprise. Supporters of the current administration all with the same message.
Just ignore it and it will go away.
-
Wow, there's a surprise. Supporters of the current administration all with the same message.
You didn't quote, and we posted at the same time. I assume your comments were directed at Cholla. In any case, the opposite can be true, also. It appears anti-supporters of the current administration have all the same message, as well.
Just ignore it and it will go away.
I think that is a gross overstatement. Besides, I suspect the overwhelming majority of citizens are not polarized in one extreme (close forever, forced government takeover of liberty) or the other (do nothing), regardless of their position on the current administration.
-
The big numbers pushed are always about how many positive cases there are. So what? If you're sick stay home. As of this morning, in southern ILL-inois, we had THREE ( 3 ) inpatients in the hospital with a viral respiratory disease but Comrade Pritzker has dictated that I still can't get a haircut. If you'all damn Yankees need to be locked down have at it but this does not require a totalitarian police state. The best way to destroy capitalism is to kill capital. Look around. We won't like the aftermath of what's being done to the economy in the name of safety. This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't. Continuing these police state tactics shows it is no longer about our health...it's about control of people. If it was the governments' job to protect us from getting sick why is there still the flu? Why is Chairman Pritzker trying to get billions to bail out a failed state built into the 'crisis relief' bill in congress? This behavior from our so-called leaders around the country just reinforces the fact that politicians do not act in our best interest but in their own.
So Conrad I ask you, 'Who's the bigger idiot..the guy who wasn't wearing a mask or the guy who willing follows the rest of the sheep to the slaughterhouse?' Enjoy your lockdown.
"This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't."
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
As you said, the lockdown was, in part, to prevent the healthcare system from being overloaded, right?
The lockdown was put in place and the healthcare system was not overloaded, right?
So you're saying that we should not be locked down since the lockdown appears to have done what it was supposed to do?
My condolences on your hair. I'm sure that if you thought about it really hard you'd probably come up with a solution. If not, ask Cholla.
-
"This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't."
[...] The lockdown was put in place and the healthcare system was not overloaded, right? So you're saying that we should not be locked down since the lockdown appears to have done what it was supposed to do?
Not sure his position, but to me there is no question it helped. But healthcare it wasn't even remotely overloaded, especially if one ignores the few hot-spots (where it also wasn't overloaded, but was getting high usage). We have tons of capacity doing nothing, which was not the point. So here are the questions:
* Should all areas be locked down equally, when case load was only really high in a few places?
* How long should areas be locked down when healthcare services are being underutilized?
* How much damage is being done, unnecessarily, to the economy and people's lives by prolonged lockdowns?
* Why did we and continue to lock down those who are NOT at high risk (pre-existing conditions)?
* Why didn't we do a better job of locking down those who WERE at high risk (like nursing homes)?
Until there is an effective treatment or vaccine, cases will continue to materialize, lock-down or not. And neither has been available or is likely to be available for a minimum of several months, if not much longer. Regardless of how much or how long we lock down, the virus isn't going away. But our prosperity has been and will continue to do so, the longer the healthy, low-risk people are forced to stay home.
If one has no major pre-existing conditions (low risk) and follows sensible precautions, there is an extremely low chance of dying or even major complications from contracting COVID-19. If one DOES have pre-existing conditions, there is nothing preventing that person from locking themselves down or taking extreme precautions.
-
"This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't."
Let me see if I understand this correctly.
As you said, the lockdown was, in part, to prevent the healthcare system from being overloaded, right?
The lockdown was put in place and the healthcare system was not overloaded, right?
So you're saying that we should not be locked down since the lockdown appears to have done what it was supposed to do?
My condolences on your hair. I'm sure that if you thought about it really hard you'd probably come up with a solution. If not, ask Cholla.
When you're done with a tool put it away.
Doesn't require that much thought...just a couple of hours drive to a free state.
-
Hey, Conrad...will you answer the question or keep avoiding it?
And don't pretend you don't know what it is.
I am seeing where many medical facilities are returning N95 masks because they aren't N95.
And what is the difference between N95 medical grade and N95?
If they are not the same why are they both called the same?
If 50 K people have died every year from the flu-in spite of vaccines-why didn't we lock down and require masks?
-
When you're done with a tool put it away.
Doesn't require that much thought...just a couple of hours drive to a free state.
Yesterday Illinois had an additional 2,088 cases of C19 and 74 deaths. Does that sound like we're done with 'the tool'?
-
For your edification, peruse the map and see where the prison state tool should be used. Oh look...it's in your neck of the woods.
https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/covid19-statistics (https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/covid19-statistics)
-
Must I remind individuals that some of these posts are Arena material. I haven't used the flaming sword......yet.
-
pick one
:hail:
:salute:
:banana
-
Flaming sword?
Kinky!
-
If masks work to stop the spread of the who flung poo flu, why didn't prisons issue them to prisoners instead of releasing them?
And Conrad is still avoiding the question.
-
Prison is kinda the ultimate shelter in place. How are these people even getting sick?
-
Prison is kinda the ultimate shelter in place. How are these people even getting sick?
New inmates can bring it. So can the staff. But releasing prisoners or not taking in prisoners due to fear of COVID-19 is truly ridiculous.
-
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave... :o
-
The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave... :o
HA! I was listening to that song JUST THIS MORNING. Considering that player has 4,986 different songs on it, that isn't a small feat. (I listen in that room less than 1 hour a day, so it would take almost a year to hear the same song twice).
-
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave... :o
FALSE
I left MANY years ago
I'm HAPPY
You Can't Win on the net
MISSION IMPOSSABLE :battle:
-
LOL..
-
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave... :o
But you can still make claims and then avoid questions when called on it.
If masks work, why weren't the prisoners given masks?
-
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave... :o
HA! I was listening to that song JUST THIS MORNING. Considering that player has 4,986 different songs on it, that isn't a small feat. (I listen in that room less than 1 hour a day, so it would take almost a year to hear the same song twice).
What are the odds? ;)
-
Another grocery adventure yesterday. Aldi and Walmart.
100% mask compliance in Aldi. Everyone had a mask on and they even wore them properly, as far as I could tell. Everyone complied with social distancing too.
Walmart? Not so much. While everyone that I saw had a mask on their face (they were required to enter the store), not everyone wore them correctly. I'd say that a good 10% of the folks, that I saw, had their nose sticking out of the mask. Idiot mouth breathers perhaps? One guy was a potato chip vendor, he had a mask but had it pulled down below his chin. A lot of good that does.
One woman who was with her daughter in the produce section apparently couldn't talk with her mask on because every time she spoke to the girl, she had to pull her mask down to speak. :o
The worst offenders where Walmart employees. I saw lots of them with their nose out of the mask...
Some of our leaders refuse to wear masks, so why should the regular people do it, right? >:(
-
Walmart? Not so much. While everyone that I saw had a mask on their face (they were required to enter the store), not everyone wore them correctly.
Interesting. Here, the sign at the front of Walmart says it is strongly encouraged (not required). What I have noticed is that usage has declined with each visit I have made (which is about once every two weeks). It was about 90% at first and now around 50%.
Not sure if they are required at Costco (I didn't notice any sign saying so, but I wasn't paying much attention), but each trip I have made there, it was about 99%.
I haven't really been in any other store in months, except Petsmart once, and it was maybe 80% and I noticed no requirement sign, just a sign saying "no refunds/returns".
-
I'm avoiding Walmart like the plague....although I may have to go there later this afternoon or better yet when they open tomorrow morning.
-
I'm avoiding Walmart like the plague....although I may have to go there later this afternoon or better yet when they open tomorrow morning.
There are many reasons to avoid Walmart :)
However, if you take proper precautions, there will be an extremely low risk of even catching the virus at all. And even if contracted, those who have no major pre-exisiting health conditions have an extremely low risk of having seriously negative outcomes.
What I would consider proper Walmart-like precautions (for now) would be: wear a mask covering nose/mouth entering, during the visit, and exiting. Do not touch your face or mask during that time. Wash/sterilize your hands at your car (or remove gloves if using that as an alternative), before getting in your car and removing mask but after the last touch of your cart. After home and unloading is complete, wash hands again.
-
...
If masks work, why weren't the prisoners given masks?
I know you're smarter than that.
Need to read a scientific publication of some sort. Lancet or JAMA is fine, suspect Nat. Geo. or NPR/PBS would work too. Fox or MSN not advised as they're often ripe with misinformation and conspiracy theories, much like your favorite social platform. Excluding here of course ;)
Masks work, not 100% by any means but they work to reduce the DISCHARGE of a contagion. Read: aerosol discharges. Quality masks (N95 or better) will reduce INTAKE of a contagion.
As far as penal colonies, I imagine it's difficult to social distance and wear a mask at communal meals. Much less wipe down all surfaces on a semi-regular basis, or wash your lunch hooks with soap and water in your Grey-Bar hotel room. Wearing a mask of any sort in prison may be ill advised too, I don't really know.
Lastly, I read on the internet (so it must be true) one or more prisoners drank out of the same cup in the hopes they'd catch Cornora-19 and be let loose to a medical facility... or to home.
I know of no one who likes wearing a mask, I know of many that refuse to wear a helmet when riding too. Wearing a mask is a team effort, the other end of mass hysteria/panic. I'm fine with you not wearing one, really! If our paths cross before we figure out this CV BS, you best be wearing a mask/bandana/paper towel, or not be breathing.
Rick
-
Interesting. Here, the sign at the front of Walmart says it is strongly encouraged (not required). What I have noticed is that usage has declined with each visit I have made (which is about once every two weeks). It was about 90% at first and now around 50%.
Not sure if they are required at Costco (I didn't notice any sign saying so, but I wasn't paying much attention), but each trip I have made there, it was about 99%.
I haven't really been in any other store in months, except Petsmart once, and it was maybe 80% and I noticed no requirement sign, just a sign saying "no refunds/returns".
Illinois' governor has mandated that we have to wear a mask when entering a retail business or when outdoors and a distance of 6' or greater can't be maintained.
I've only been in three different retail stores since the C19 virus has turned the world upside down, Aldi, Walmart, and Menards. Walmart certainly is NOT my favorite store to shop at but it's the only grocery store in the area, other than Aldi.
-
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave... :o
FALSE
I left MANY years ago
I'm HAPPY
You Can't Win on the net
MISSION IMPOSSABLE :battle:
Not sure where you got the idea that I'm unhappy? Irritated? Perhaps. Unhappy? No.
-
Hello California, Illinois, New York, DC, Virginia, and ................
-
I'm probably going to get the law on me tomorrow. We're holding a 22 mile ride for veterans. 22 veterans commit suicide every day. Around 15 or so people in my back yard all of them riding Indians with mostly loud pipes including myself. I'm feeding them hamburgers and hot dogs. The neighbors will probably have conniption fits. Due to the virus I've asked the group to forego hugs and kisses. I'm so tired of this sh*t. People wearing masks in cars by themselves. Bicyclists wearing masks. Walkers wearing masks. It doesn't make any f'n sense anymore. I'm starting to hate everyone.
-
I'm probably going to get the law on me tomorrow.
Good luck. Maybe you better have that high-in-demand get out of jail card with you.
-
I'm probably going to get the law on me tomorrow. We're holding a 22 mile ride for veterans. 22 veterans commit suicide every day. Around 15 or so people in my back yard all of them riding Indians with mostly loud pipes including myself. I'm feeding them hamburgers and hot dogs. The neighbors will probably have conniption fits. Due to the virus I've asked the group to forego hugs and kisses. I'm so tired of this sh*t. People wearing masks in cars by themselves. Bicyclists wearing masks. Walkers wearing masks. It doesn't make any f'n sense anymore. I'm starting to hate everyone.
If I was your neighbor I'd be pissed if you didn't invite me over for a burger...
-
You'd be invited with the other riff raff...not to worry.
-
Good luck. Maybe you better have that high-in-demand get out of jail card with you.
Unfortunately I have no super powers outside of this realm...and some would take a dim view of me waving a flaming sword around.
-
Unfortunately I have no super powers outside of this realm...and some would take a dim view of me waving a flaming sword around.
I hear Virginiastan is tough on the right to bear flaming arms.
-
Hello California, Illinois, New York, DC, Virginia, and ................
:thumbs:
-
I'm probably going to get the law on me tomorrow. We're holding a 22 mile ride for veterans. 22 veterans commit suicide every day. Around 15 or so people in my back yard all of them riding Indians with mostly loud pipes including myself. I'm feeding them hamburgers and hot dogs. The neighbors will probably have conniption fits. Due to the virus I've asked the group to forego hugs and kisses. I'm so tired of this sh*t. People wearing masks in cars by themselves. Bicyclists wearing masks. Walkers wearing masks. It doesn't make any f'n sense anymore. I'm starting to hate everyone.
"Around 15 or so people in my back yard all of them riding Indians with mostly loud pipes including myself."
That's going to play hell on your lawn ain't it?
Good luck, Take your temp in two weeks or so...
-
I'm probably going to get the law on me tomorrow. We're holding a 22 mile ride for veterans. 22 veterans commit suicide every day. Around 15 or so people in my back yard all of them riding Indians with mostly loud pipes including myself. I'm feeding them hamburgers and hot dogs. The neighbors will probably have conniption fits. Due to the virus I've asked the group to forego hugs and kisses. I'm so tired of this sh*t. People wearing masks in cars by themselves. Bicyclists wearing masks. Walkers wearing masks. It doesn't make any f'n sense anymore. I'm starting to hate everyone.
Totally agree Jim... some level of common sense regarding safety should of course now be exercised, but it's all out of hand, I too saw a cyclist this morning on our country road wearing a mask ...WTF
-
Totally agree Jim... some level of common sense regarding safety should of course now be exercised, but it's all out of hand, I too saw a cyclist this morning on our country road wearing a mask ...WTF
It's possible that this runner has severe allergies and uses a mask whenever he/she rides. Unlikely, but possible.
-
It's possible that this runner has severe allergies and uses a mask whenever he/she rides. Unlikely, but possible.
Yes that is a possibility,
-
One of the reasons you'll find folks wearing masks while alone in the car or where ever is to remind themselves not to touch their
face since they've left the house, as that is probably the last place they have been able to wash their hands since leaving home.
Last week I could have been frequently seen out and about wearing my mask as I drove alone from place to place completing the weekly
errands.
I'm starting to hate everyone.
Perhaps this would be a good time to take another break?...anyway enjoy your day...but really V'Jim, please do elbow bump and socialize 6-8 feet away
from those Indian riders...anyone of them could be your personal grim reaper ...and then who is going to pick up the sword for us? T Cro?...couple weeks
at most then he'll throw in the towel and let the hosting contract expire...then where are Mr. C and Cholla gonna spar?
-
Hmmm
-
Elbow bump? Doesn't that violate social distancing?
And what has your elbow touched?
If I must wear a mask to meet, we won't meet.
If lockdowns work isn't prison the ultimate form of a lockdown?
Why are prisons releasing inmates into the public to prevent them from being exposed? Its the public who has it!
-
Illinois' governor has mandated that we have to wear a mask when entering a retail business or when outdoors and a distance of 6' or greater can't be maintained.
I've only been in three different retail stores since the C19 virus has turned the world upside down, Aldi, Walmart, and Menards. Walmart certainly is NOT my favorite store to shop at but it's the only grocery store in the area, other than Aldi.
Did Jelly Belly Pritzker make his family wear masks when they went to Florida and Wisconsin?
Or the contractors he sent to his property in WI?
The only store I have been to that required masks was Menard's and that was AFTER things started opening up. Why did they wait until then? I had been there twice the week before the requirement.
Btw I didn't go in.
-
I saw where the MI politicians are on Trump like a dog on a bone for not wearing a taskbar the Ford plant.
I had the news on the box waiting for the weather and they showed a clip of Jelly Belly at a press conference. He appears on stage wearing a mask. He gets to the podium and...removes the mask!
Haven't heard any complaints from the usual suspects.
-
He appears on stage wearing a mask. He gets to the podium and...removes the mask!
Well, giving a speech with a mask on would muffle the audio, and reduce emotional expression. But, I assume there was nobody within droplet range of him at that time.
-
One of the reasons you'll find folks wearing masks while alone in the car or where ever is to remind themselves not to touch their
face since they've left the house, as that is probably the last place they have been able to wash their hands since leaving home.
Last week I could have been frequently seen out and about wearing my mask as I drove alone from place to place completing the weekly
errands.
Perhaps this would be a good time to take another break?...anyway enjoy your day...but really V'Jim, please do elbow bump and socialize 6-8 feet away
from those Indian riders...anyone of them could be your personal grim reaper ...and then who is going to pick up the sword for us? T Cro?...couple weeks
at most then he'll throw in the towel and let the hosting contract expire...then where are Mr. C and Cholla gonna spar?
Spar? That's an interesting word for it.
-
Well, giving a speech with a mask on would muffle the audio, and reduce emotional expression. But, I assume there was nobody within droplet range of him at that time.
Not necessarily a bad thing.
-
Elbow bump? Doesn't that violate social distancing?
And what has your elbow touched?
Perhaps, but it's still better than a handshake, and offering your elbow for a bump is less rude than ignoring an extended hand. What your elbow has touched
is somewhat immaterial since you are not likely to touch your face with your elbow.
If I must wear a mask to meet, we won't meet.
I'm OK with that.
If lockdowns work isn't prison the ultimate form of a lockdown?
Why are prisons releasing inmates into the public to prevent them from being exposed? Its the public who has it!
It's not the lockdown that helps, it's isolation. prisoners are anything but isolated from each other air wise. They may be in a cell
but the cells are all packed together. The communal eating and showering areas are also problematic. Besides that prisoners generally are more resistant
to conformity and rules than the general public, that's kind of the reason they are in there. As for the releasing part...well you've got me there....probably the real
reason is that the prisons don't want the expensive medical treatment to come out of their budgets and prefer the prisoners get out and go get sick elsewhere so they don't
have to pay for it. Doubtful they'd admit that though.
-
Hmmm
(http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=24462.0;attach=32064)
Doesn't take whole minute.
Masks don't [work] prevent the spread of virus, they improve the odds that virus laden droplets from coughing, sneezing, talking, and breathing will be caught in the fabric of the mask.
If confined long enough and close enough like say indoors in a business mingling in the aisles reading product labels and trying on clothes, a masked infected person could still infect others
also wearing masks. It's only an aid, not a sure thing.
I'm not sure why some think it's their constitutional right to go into someone else's store without a mask if the people that own the store/business require it, don't they have rights as well in their own store/business? Since the 60s I've seen signs in businesses that say "No shirt no shoes no service". No social or political outcry about that, but a mask?..."oh my gosh!... public health be damned, I want my constitutional right to not have to smell my own bad breath inside someone else's place of business." Next they'll want their freedom of speech right to cry "fire" in a crowded theater.
-
Doesn't take whole minute.
Masks don't [work] prevent the spread of virus, they improve the odds that virus laden droplets from coughing, sneezing, talking, and breathing will be caught in the fabric of the mask.
If confined long enough and close enough like say indoors in a business mingling in the aisles reading product labels and trying on clothes, a masked infected person could still infect others
also wearing masks. It's only an aid, not a sure thing.
I'm not sure why some think it's their constitutional right to go into someone else's store without a mask if the people that own the store/business require it, don't they have rights as well in their own store/business? Since the 60s I've seen signs in businesses that say "No shirt no shoes no service". No social or political outcry about that, but a mask?..."oh my gosh!... public health be damned, I want my constitutional right to not have to smell my own bad breath inside someone else's place of business." Next they'll want their freedom of speech right to cry "fire" in a crowded theater.
Miss a dose of meds? Where did all of that come from?
If a business requires a mask you wear the mask or shop elsewhere. I've worn a mask exactly 3 times, all at the same car dealer service dept that services our company vehicles, and each time for less than 5 minutes until I could exit the building and sit on a bench. They require it, that's where my employer wants oil changes done, that's where they go.....but not my $$ being spent. I haven't, and will not, spend a penny where a mask is required if I have other options.
-
I'm not sure why some think it's their constitutional right to go into someone else's store without a mask if the people that own the store/business require it, don't they have rights as well in their own store/business? Since the 60s I've seen signs in businesses that say "No shirt no shoes no service". No social or political outcry about that, but a mask?..."oh my gosh!... public health be damned, I want my constitutional right to not have to smell my own bad breath inside someone else's place of business."
You are correct, the Constitution has nothing to do with private stores and masks. Most people are irritated about the governments "ordering" it. The Federal government has zero standing on it, but States have a pretty good leeway with it, however. Although the extent is debatable. Interestingly, the Fed has not overstepped bounds at all during this crisis, not that I have seen. Some of the States have gone way too far, though.
Next they'll want their freedom of speech right to cry "fire" in a crowded theater.
Actually, you have that freedom. The controversial and incorrect non-binding decision in which the example was uttered (but not really related to the actual case) was overturned by the Supreme Court something like 50 years ago...
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/)
There are some limits, but mostly civil, not criminal, and revolve around slander/liable and copyright. The few criminal exceptions include speech specifically (and intentionally) directed at a crowd or individual to incite [usually] immediate physical violence. Just saying something inflammatory, nasty, hateful, or controversial doesn't come even close to the standard.
Freedom of speech/expression/writing/protest is the best-protected of the Bill of Rights. I only wish the same vigor were applied to ALL of them, most especially the 2nd, 9th, and 10th. The 9th and 10th are gutted so badly, and so completely ignored, they might as well not even exist.
-
We quickly figured out that there is no such thing as social distancing when you live and work onboard a tugboat with 7 other crew members... Best we can do is limit the contact we have with the outside world and hope for the best...
-
Miss a dose of meds? Where did all of that come from?
Ha! No all meds have been taken, but I appreciate your concern. My first paragraph was in response to the joke or meme or whatever that was.
The second paragraph probably should have been left out, but I had just watched the news where they showed some guy ranting about his rights
as he was carried out of a business that required masks. It seemed in my mind at the time of typing to be related but I see now where it appears to
be an over reaction to the joke/mem/statement you posted. I do stand by what I posted, just not where I posted it. Well I standby most of it...... ???
Actually, you have that freedom. The controversial and incorrect non-binding decision in which the example was uttered (but not really related to the actual case) was overturned by the Supreme Court something like 50 years ago...
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/11/its-time-to-stop-using-the-fire-in-a-crowded-theater-quote/264449/)
Thanks max' I wasn't aware of that.
-
Watching the news and seeing folks crowding the beaches and bars (99.9% w/o masks or social distancing) over the holiday weekend, mostly down south but not exclusively. In a few clips the reporter asks the people if they are worried or concerned about catching the virus or passing it on to someone else.
Many stating that they are not worried and that God will protect them.
Really? What of the nearly 100k people in our country that have died as a result? Or the nearly 350k that have died worldwide? Where they all Godless? Did God turn his back on them for some reason and not protect them?
Morons, every last one of them. If you're in this mindset, then you too are a moron.
-
The get together went fine. About 10 bikes or so with roughly 13 people. Only one person used any sanitizer (I totally forgot) even with it staring me in the face. No masks were worn. No one called the law and the septic system held up admirably. We did have chairs spread out on the lawn to keep some semblance of distance. I guess we'll know soon if we had any typhoid Mary's in the crowd.
I'm going to call for an appt to get my hair (what's left) cut today. I'll probably have to wear a mask for that.
On the subject of masks and establishments. It's like no shirt or shoes, no service. If that's their policy for people to wear masks and you need to get something there then you wear a mask or just not go in or get it somewhere else. It's pretty simple to me. I'm not angry either way.
You won't catch me at any large gatherings like we've seen in the news, at least until a vaccine comes out. No movie theaters, either. Definitely avoid Walmart or any big store but that's me.
I did cancel an appt at my Dr. which was on the schedule. There's nothing physically wrong with me (mental yes) so I don't see the need to rush into that appt. I'll probably reschedule for August. If they give me grief about not extending my cholesterol meds then so be it as it seems more and more they don't extend unless you've come in to see them. I don't see cholesterol medicine as essential to me.
-
I got my hair cut yesterday at my favorite salon by my favorite stylist, at home by my wife.
This is the second haircut I've had since :hitfan:. She used our dog clippers on me and they work just fine. I still have most of my hair and it grows fast. Buzzing my entire head with a #3 works great. Besides, even a bad haircut grows out in time.
Bought these a few years ago. https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B000LRN32E/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
-
Many stating that they are not worried and that God will protect them.
Really? What of the nearly 100k people in our country that have died as a result? Or the nearly 350k that have died worldwide? Where they all Godless?
Godless sinful blaspheeeemers, everyone of them!!!
(Like V'Jim doesn't have enough sword work to do with a thread about a virus that seems to have gone with all political undertones, so Marty stirs a little religion into the mix. :stirpot: :hitfan: :stirpot: :hitfan: :1DeadBanana )
-
No masks were worn. No one called the law and the septic system held up admirably. We did have chairs spread out on the lawn to keep some semblance of distance.
For that case, that's all that is needed, really. If you are outdoors and nobody gets close to each other, that is a reasonable precaution. Now, if you had food and were all touching the same serving spoons or something, that wouldn't be good. But sitting and talking, no big whoop. I have done that several times with friends.
-
...
Buzzing my entire head with a #3 works great. Besides, even a bad haircut grows out in time.
...
Used to load up a #4 comb, now it's a #3 as not much on top any more. Nape of neck also a #3 comb and probably looks like a Mullet that slipped aft and down... or a duck tail. I can't see it, and nobody has (of yet) commented "who cut your hair, man?", so I ain't changing my routine ;)
Rick
-
Watching the news and seeing folks crowding the beaches and bars (99.9% w/o masks or social distancing) over the holiday weekend, mostly down south but not exclusively. In a few clips the reporter asks the people if they are worried or concerned about catching the virus or passing it on to someone else.
Many stating that they are not worried and that God will protect them.
Really? What of the nearly 100k people in our country that have died as a result? Or the nearly 350k that have died worldwide? Where they all Godless? Did God turn his back on them for some reason and not protect them?
Morons, every last one of them. If you're in this mindset, then you too are a moron.
Since we are calling names now I'll correct you … I am not a moron, but I may be deplorable, and you sir … are a sheep! BBBAAAAAAAA!
-
Watching the news and seeing folks crowding the beaches and bars (99.9% w/o masks or social distancing) over the holiday weekend, mostly down south but not exclusively. In a few clips the reporter asks the people if they are worried or concerned about catching the virus or passing it on to someone else.
Many stating that they are not worried and that God will protect them.
Really? What of the nearly 100k people in our country that have died as a result? Or the nearly 350k that have died worldwide? Where they all Godless? Did God turn his back on them for some reason and not protect them?
Morons, every last one of them. If you're in this mindset, then you too are a moron.
Since we are calling names now I'll correct you … I am not a moron, but I may be deplorable, and you sir … are a sheep! BBBAAAAAAAA!
Are you saying that you do not take any precautions to protect yourself, or those around you, from the possibility of contracting the virus based only upon the idea that God will protect you from infection?
And you're calling me a sheep? :o
-
Virginia, starting this Friday, is now requiring anyone going into a public building wear a mask. Of course you can take the mask off when eating so I'm wondering does this mean that the mask stays on until the food arrives? I'm thinking yes. This is coming from our governor who showed up at a beach without a mask this past weekend. He got flack for that and I guess this is his way of getting back at everyone. This mask thing only applies to inside so those of you massing on beaches and outside activities can continue on.
According to the guv'nor, this is not enforceable via law enforcement and that no police action will take place and no summons issued..............however, he is leaving it up to the business' to enforce and if someone isn't willing to comply law enforcement can be called to remove said individual which, of course, leads to escalation and on and on and on....
Personally, I'm going to continue what I'm doing and stay away from everything (except liquor stores) do what we have been doing and ordering take out. I really hate this sh*t.
-
And now we finally have some updated statistics for the USA:
0.4% of people who feel sick with Covid-19 (have symptoms), and seek help, will die.
For people under 50 the agency estimated that 0.05% of symptomatic people will die (that is 1 in 2,000).
Note, that is not your total risk, because many will be exposed and never have any symptoms. So those numbers are still MUCH HIGHER than reality! 35% of people infected had no symptoms and sought no care at all. So you have to adjust the numbers to account for that (by reducing them by 35%):
0.26% of all people who were infected by Covid-19 will die.
For people under 50 the estimate would be 0.0325% of people will die (that is 1 in 3,077).
And note, the number will be much lower, yet, for those who have no pre-existing health conditions (but higher for those who do have pre-existing conditions), there just isn't enough data to compute and express that.
This has nothing to do with "flattening the curve", shutting down the economy, social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing, or whatever. It isn't the risk of catching the virus, it is the total risk of death AFTER exposure. Obviously, if you don't catch it, there is 0% risk of death from it; and if you are high-risk, it would be much better to not catch it.
It is still serious, but this helps paint a much more accurate picture of the situation. It is many, many orders of magnitude less than the initial predictions.
-
And now we finally have some updated statistics for the USA:
0.4% of people who feel sick with Covid-19 (have symptoms), and seek help, will die.
For people under 50 the agency estimated that 0.05% of symptomatic people will die (that is 1 in 2,000).
Note, that is not your total risk, because many will be exposed and never have any symptoms. So those numbers are still MUCH HIGHER than reality! 35% of people infected had no symptoms and sought no care at all. So you have to adjust the numbers to account for that (by reducing them by 35%):
0.26% of all people who were infected by Covid-19 will die.
For people under 50 the estimate would be 0.0325% of people will die (that is 1 in 3,077).
And note, the number will be much lower, yet, for those who have no pre-existing health conditions (but higher for those who do have pre-existing conditions), there just isn't enough data to compute and express that.
This has nothing to do with "flattening the curve", shutting down the economy, social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing, or whatever. It isn't the risk of catching the virus, it is the total risk of death AFTER exposure. Obviously, if you don't catch it, there is 0% risk of death from it; and if you are high-risk, it would be much better to not catch it.
It is still serious, but this helps paint a much more accurate picture of the situation. It is many, many orders of magnitude less than the initial predictions.
Where in the world are you getting those numbers from Max?
Let's do this the easy way.
As of this moment there have been 1,739,859 confirmed C19 deaths cases* in this country. Yes, that number is most certainly higher because of the lack of testing. Thank you FedGov.
The number of dead from C19 stands at 101,762 at this moment. Could that number be higher? Maybe but let's go with that.
Doing the math with those numbers yields a morality mortality rate of ~5.8%.
5.8% dead!
That's a FAR cry from your numbers that start with a decimal point.
* (thanks Marty)
-
At this moment in time, VA has a 3.2% death rate (VA website), NY has 8% (Johns Hopkins website) so it's really location based as to the number of deaths per infected unfortunately. Overall it may be lower than those figures if you average it out. I'm definitely staying away from NY. I would think that denser population centers would have a higher death rate. It is safer to be in Alaska but they don't have the population the lower 48 has. Next safest place is Hawaii.
Not going to Sweden. Death rate is darn near 12%. Not prudent at all. Worse than New York which is weird to me.
https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/ (https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/)
No matter what anyone says, this is not a 'normal' flu virus. It acts differently and it seems to have more long term varying side effects than the 'normal' flu's that occurs year to year.
-
fify
Where in the world are you getting those numbers from Max?
Let's do this the easy way.
As of this moment there have been 1,739,859 confirmed C19 deaths cases in this country. Yes, that number is most certainly higher because of the lack of testing. Thank you FedGov.
The number of dead from C19 stands at 101,762 at this moment. Could that number be higher? Maybe but let's go with that.
Doing the math with those numbers yields a morality rate of ~5.8%.
5.8% dead!
That's a FAR cry from your numbers that start with a decimal point.
-
Not going to Sweden. Death rate is darn near 12%. Not prudent at all. Worse than New York which is weird to me.
We need to think long term (relatively speaking) about the Sweden model, yes they went a different way and even they admit they screwed up on nursing homes. However
despite their initially high numbers, they might actually do better than the rest of us in total percent since they might not get a second wave of cases between now and when
ever widespread effective vaccines are available. Plus their economy is still relatively vibrant. I'm not saying they are right, (easy guys) I'm just pointing out they are doing it a different way and
we probably won't know for 5 years whether they were correct. It probably won't take that long for the health numbers to settle, but the economic numbers might. I don't want
to get into the economy vs health debate which would quickly go political here, but one needs to factor in that the economy effects health. A bad economy can effect health, long term
stress is never good for the body. Heart attacks, strokes, spousal abuse, child abuse, suicide, and increased deaths due to lack of health insurance can easily go up during economic stress.
I hope for a returning vibrant economy to spring up, but who knows it may undulate for several years after this pandemic wraps up.
All that to say, I think Sweden is doing the world a favor in doing it their way. If all the first world countries handled the pandemic the same way there is less to be learned. Whether they are
correct or not, five years from now we'll have much more info than if they did it the same way as the other countries.
Only somewhat related I found this (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/may/26/last-iron-lung-paul-alexander-polio-coronavirus) interesting. I remember as a kid not being allowed to go places because of polio concerns.
The summer of 1952 was hot, even by Texas standards: 25 days above 100F (38C), the “cool” days not much cooler. But across the state, swimming pools were shut. Cinemas, too, and bars and bowling alleys. Church services were suspended. Cities doused their streets with DDT insecticide; by now, health officials knew that mosquitoes didn’t spread the disease, but they had to be seen to be doing something. Nothing seemed to work. As the summer wore on, the numbers of.....
-
As of this moment there have been 1,739,859 confirmed C19 deaths in this country. Yes, that number is most certainly higher because of the lack of testing. Thank you FedGov.
Do you still think the number of people tested is because there are no test kits available, or maybe because most people without symptoms don'r feel a need to get tested? I'm in the latter group, myself. And I work at a medical facility, and know that there are ample tests available. But wearing a mask to enter, no visitors allowed, and having temperature checked daily before entering means that unless I'm symptomatic there's not a real need to get myself tested.
I think number of cases is probably far more than number tested.
-
My mistake, thanks.
fify
-
Do you still think the number of people tested is because there are no test kits available, or maybe because most people without symptoms don'r feel a need to get tested? I'm in the latter group, myself. And I work at a medical facility, and know that there are ample tests available. But wearing a mask to enter, no visitors allowed, and having temperature checked daily before entering means that unless I'm symptomatic there's not a real need to get myself tested.
I think number of cases is probably far more than number tested.
I think the latter, especially with me. I have no symptoms and don't feel like getting in a line like a herd of cattle waiting to be slaughtered (probably a bad analogy but I'm going with it). I look at it like this. If I feel bad enough that I can't breathe or something of similar symptoms then I'm calling an ambulance to come get me. Not going to wait in a line for the Man to get me with a swab. I don't like waiting in line for anything. If I have to wait for it then it isn't worth it for me.
You may be right about the positive number of cases with no symptoms vs testing although testing is ramping up substantially here. VA has tested 319,600, with a 12.7% positive result. Population of Virginia is 8.36 million.
https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/ (https://www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/) and look under the testing tab.
-
Where in the world are you getting those numbers from Max?
The CDC.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html)
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html)
It is the most accurate data we have at this time. Not everyone agrees with the projections, but you never get agreement on ANY projections. It could be wrong- it might be too high or too low, and the projections will likely get more and more accurate over time. But these aren't MY numbers, I am just relaying credible information, that's all.
Doing the math with those numbers yields a morality rate of ~5.8%. That's a FAR cry from your numbers that start with a decimal point.
Yes, it is. Your number is a death rate of those who were tested for COVID-19, and not tested for antibodies, and tested positive for COVID-19, and have gone for treatment, and died (presumably from COVID-19). It is not an actual full mortality rate nor a risk assessment. You can't take a small, non-random, sub-section of people and count how many died and extend that number to the population at large. That is not to say it isn't a useful number, but it isn't what most people think it is. You do NOT have anywhere near a 5.8% chance of dying from COVID-19 as a random person plucked from the population.
I am not a statistical expert, nor am I am epidemiologist. But I had many statistics credits in my degree and can generally understand the reports and what they mean. I also cross-checked my conclusions with other sources carefully before I posted them.
-
The CDC.
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html (https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/22/health/cdc-coronavirus-estimates-symptoms-deaths/index.html)
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html)
https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/28/863944333/antibody-tests-point-to-lower-death-rate-for-the-coronavirus-than-first-thought (https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2020/05/28/863944333/antibody-tests-point-to-lower-death-rate-for-the-coronavirus-than-first-thought)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-antibody-tests-leave-some-americans-with-more-questions-than-answers-11590670800 (https://www.wsj.com/articles/covid-19-antibody-tests-leave-some-americans-with-more-questions-than-answers-11590670800)
https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/data-cdc-estimates-covid-19-mortality-rate/275-fc43f37f-6764-45e3-b615-123459f0082b (https://www.wcnc.com/article/news/health/coronavirus/data-cdc-estimates-covid-19-mortality-rate/275-fc43f37f-6764-45e3-b615-123459f0082b)
https://macdailynews.com/2020/05/26/new-cdc-estimate-puts-covid-19-death-rate-at-0-26/ (https://macdailynews.com/2020/05/26/new-cdc-estimate-puts-covid-19-death-rate-at-0-26/)
https://www.globalhealthnow.org/2020-05/cdcs-new-takes-covid-19 (https://www.globalhealthnow.org/2020-05/cdcs-new-takes-covid-19)
-
Max, don't let facts get in the way of a good story. And don't remind anyone that their President speculated months ago that the mortality rate would be less than 1%. I got beat up pretty good by the same guy questioning your numbers when I stated that most doctors around the world rate hydroxychloroquine (sp?) as the best treatment for Covid-19. Even though it was a readily available survey result based on what thousands of doctors around the world were reporting.
-
... Not going to wait in a line for the Man to get me with a swab. I don't like waiting in line for anything. If I have to wait for it then it isn't worth it for me...
Absolutely no f'in way am I going to voluntary have a swab stuck up my nose till it touches my pea sized brain...
-
Absolutely no f'in way am I going to voluntary have a swab stuck up my nose till it touches my pea sized brain...
I kinda feel the same way, unless it was really necessary. I have seen just how far that sucker goes. And if it is worse than the regular flu swab I had several years ago (which turned out positive), I think I will pass. With that in mind, I would still take an antibody test if offered one (that is not up the nose), see below....
If I had symptoms, I might submit to the present-infection test, although knowing positive/negative doesn't really change much. If I didn't have it, it changes nothing. If I did have it, it changes nothing- I would still seek care based on what was or was not happening with my body. I would still take precautions not to spread it and would still self-isolate. I take precautions regardless, even without any symptoms. One can still have the virus and the test show nothing because the viral load isn't high enough yet. One can have no symptoms and still spread it, even if the test was negative. And one could test false positive and be in panic for no reason, or false negative and I suppose be irresponsible. And one can test negative and then catch it the very same day, perhaps never to be tested again.
So the only real value in mass public testing for active infection on people without symptoms is when they are lucky enough to catch the rare person who is positive at the time AND without symptoms, allowing intense isolation to hopefully prevent additional spread. But only a small percent of the population actively have it, and only 1/3 of those are people without symptoms. It looks like a rather weak effort to make much of any difference, especially if people use common sense about protection. It is really only a useful tool in a healthcare setting and for "hot spot" areas, like if a suspected outbreak started developing in a nursing home where you had to take swift and aggressive action to protect a large number of vulnerable people from each other (those who are old and typically also with numerous pre-existing conditions).
In my opinion, COVID-19 testing, in mass, of those with no symptoms is a mixed bag of mostly nothing but cost; more of a "but we have to 'do something'" kinda thing. However, antibody testing for those without symptoms (and those who perhaps did have symptoms in the past and were never active tested), is a much more valuable tool for understanding the state of situation and predicting what is happening and might happen. I would encourage everyone to participate in that, if they have the opportunity.
But speaking of appropriate testing to prevent issues in a healthcare setting of vulnerable people:
https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/21/nursing-homes-residents-account-for-81-of-covid-19-deaths-in-minnesota-but-state-still-allows-facilities-to-admit-covid-19-positive-patients/ (https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2020/05/21/nursing-homes-residents-account-for-81-of-covid-19-deaths-in-minnesota-but-state-still-allows-facilities-to-admit-covid-19-positive-patients/)
-
I could go get tested for free if I wanted to but why? I don't have any symptoms and the testing is reported to NOT be 100% accurate anyway. And as for the 100,000+ deaths, how many were the flu? I'm sure not many right? In all past years I believe I've read that we have a annual loss of between 16,000 to 61,000 lives due to the seasonal flu. But not this year right? Because Dr. Birx said we didn't have a flu this year. Well, all I can say about that is, thank God we didn't have a flu this year, can you imagine how high the death count would be if we did! :o
With that said, and it being Friday, the start of the weekend, I'm going to stop by the "essential" liquor store on the way home from work and get a case of corona. But don't worry, I'll put on my home made mask that's almost useless at stopping viruses to make everyone else feel safe. We'll get thru this together. ;)
-
Absolutely no f'in way am I going to voluntary have a swab stuck up my nose till it touches my pea sized brain...
I was to have a nerve ablation procedure for back pain done back in March. They shut down elective procedures at that time so it didn't happen. I got a call about 3 weeks ago to reschedule it but I needed to have a Covid test a couple of days before the procedure.
OMG! That was unpleasant. I did ask for a note stating that, "yes, I do have a brain" to show my wife... But they wouldn't do it. :o It's a female conspiracy! ::)
-
Graduation ceremonies were cancelled in most places. Why didn't they get the students in line standing at the spots marked on the floor at Wal-Mart and announce the names over the speakers?
-
Graduation ceremonies were cancelled in most places. Why didn't they get the students in line standing at the spots marked on the floor at Wal-Mart and announce the names over the speakers?
Or parade them through Home Depot...
-
The testing is ridiculous if you ask me. One of the hospitals I work at is requiring vendors to have 2 negative tests at least 7 days apart before they are allowed back. I have had both tests. I figured it was going to be like the flu test. Had that done once. It wasn’t to bad. The original Covid test was pretty bad. They shove the swab in your nose, completely thru your sinus cavity into the back of your throat, and they do it up both nostrils. Makes the second one worse because you know what to expect.
After that, I searched out who was doing the new test. That one was just like the flu test. Wasn’t bad at all. In between the two nasal swab tests, I found a lab that was doing the antibody testing. I had a really bad cold in February and thought maybe it was Covid. I was thinking, maybe if I have the antibodies, I wouldn’t have to get the second swab (before I found the new, less invasive testing). Well, all three test ended up being negative.
This really surprised me because I have been exposed at least three times that I know of. All three times were medical office staff that I work closely with. Problem is that it takes 5-6 days for symptoms to develop before someone knows they are sick. Then, at the time I was exposed, it was taking 5-6 days to get the results back. By the time someone found out they had tested positive, it was almost over since it typically only lasts 14 days.
Now, back to the hospital policy being ridiculous... how does having two negative test from 1-2 weeks ago prove I didn’t catch it any time after I was tested?!?!
Without getting political, the government handled this completely bass ackward. It is the first time in history that the healthy people were quarantined. I know my opinion counts for absolutely nothing, but I think they should have quarantined the elderly and those with underlying conditions and allowed those who are young and healthy to continue working. If you get sick, stay home. That is what sick days are for. When you recover, go back to work. Let it run its course and allow people to build an immunity to it. One of the guys I work with tested positive for the antibody test and never had symptoms. He has no idea when he was exposed. Oh, and the hospital wouldn’t except those test results. He still had to get 2 swabs done as well. Just to prove he didn’t have it last week.
-
Without getting political, the government handled this completely bass ackward. It is the first time in history that the healthy people were quarantined. I know my opinion counts for absolutely nothing, but I think they should have quarantined the elderly and those with underlying conditions and allowed those who are young and healthy to continue working. If you get sick, stay home.
And if you're asymptomatic? How many people are running around infecting others and not knowing? It only takes one.
That is what sick days are for. When you recover, go back to work.
Assuming you haven't shut down your entire workplace by infecting everyone before you realise you're even sick.
Let it run its course and allow people to build an immunity to it.
It is running its course. That's why a hundred thousand of you are dead. How many deaths are acceptable to give the remainder herd immunity?
One of the guys I work with tested positive for the antibody test and never had symptoms. He has no idea when he was exposed.
And no idea if he infected anyone else. It only takes one.
-
And if you're asymptomatic? How many people are running around infecting others and not knowing? It only takes one.
Assuming you haven't shut down your entire workplace by infecting everyone before you realise you're even sick.It is running its course. That's why a hundred thousand of you are dead. How many deaths are acceptable to give the remainder herd immunity?And no idea if he infected anyone else. It only takes one.
I guess you missed the part where I said to quarantine those who are elderly or have other underlying conditions that would make catching it more dangerous. I also said to let those that are young and otherwise healthy go back to work. It won’t help anyone if those that need to stay home due to underlying health conditions don’t have a job to go back to when this is over due to businesses shutting down. Let the young healthy people keep things running for those that can’t.
-
And if you're asymptomatic? How many people are running around infecting others and not knowing? It only takes one.
Assuming you haven't shut down your entire workplace by infecting everyone before you realise you're even sick.It is running its course. That's why a hundred thousand of you are dead. How many deaths are acceptable to give the remainder herd immunity?And no idea if he infected anyone else. It only takes one.
No matter your view, bottom line is that the majority of the ones that are dying from the virus (actually from the virus) are elderly or have underlying health conditions and are NOT following the guidelines of quarantine.
-
No, I didn't miss anything. Just because it mostly affects the elderly and infirm, doesn't mean it isn't killing young otherwise healthy people. Who is going to look after the elderly and the sick in quarantine? How will they survive if only the young are allowed to work? How will they shop? Where will they get money? Socialism? ::)
No matter your view, bottom line is that the majority of the ones that are dying from the virus (actually from the virus) are elderly or have underlying health conditions and are NOT following the guidelines of quarantine.
My view is from Australia, where we have one hundred and three dead.
-
Plenty of places here to order groceries and have them delivered. Antiseptic wipes to clean the items delivered. Then wash hands. Retirement age folks should have everything already worked out financially, be it what they saved, social security, pensions, government assistance, etc. Having the government give 100% support those with underlying health conditions would be astronomically cheaper than what they have been doing. The amount of young healthy people that are dying from the virus is EXTREMELY low and most likely are due to undiagnosed underlying conditions they were unaware of. The problem here in the US is the fact that the numbers have been extremely skewed. There have been people dying of auto accidents, and other unrelated causes that tested positive for Covid and were added into the death poll.
I have been at Lowe’s (home improvement store - not sure if you have them there) and seen a lot of people easily 70 years old and up, not wearing masks, running all thru the store in electric scooters, with flowers for flower beads, BBQ supplies, and other unnecessary supplies in their carts. That store is always completely packed with people because it is one of the few places open during the shut down. Point I’m making, is there are ways for those that want to protect themselves to do so. It’s a free country so what people choose to do or not do is their business. Since when is it the government’s job to tell businesses or citizens when they can or can not work, go to the store, etc? The choices we make are our own and we deal with the benefits and risks we take with everything else. Why should this be any different. Put correct info about the virus out there and let people make their own decisions.
-
Baaaaa.....baaaaa....baaaa.
-
Now, back to the hospital policy being ridiculous... how does having two negative test from 1-2 weeks ago prove I didn’t catch it any time after I was tested?!?!
Bingo. It doesn't.
-
And if you're asymptomatic? How many people are running around infecting others and not knowing? It only takes one.
Which you will not catch by testing people even every day.
How many deaths are acceptable to give the remainder herd immunity?
How many deaths will happen regardless? How many deaths will happen and have already happened due to lockdown with people not seeking medical care, not willing or able to get regular preventative care, with increased suicides, and who-knows-what if the economy totally fizzles out? The lockdowns were supposed to be short (couple of weeks), temporary measures to prevent overwhelming healthcare facilities and should have been based on localities with such a threat. Not whole States, and certainly not for months.
Remember that around half of all deaths have been due to nursing home residents not being properly protected, and in some cases (like NY) put at far worse risk due to horrible policies. Almost all the remainder were high-risk, who are the ones who should be isolating and taking extra precautions until an effective treatment or vaccine is available. Locking down of everyone else, once we knew what was going on, was/is insanity.
With the exception of those who can't care for themselves, everyone has remarkable control over preventing their own infection with relatively simple hygiene measures. They can judge their own risk and should be free to take whatever measures they deem appropriate for themselves, but not for others.
-
Which you will not catch by testing people even every day.
How many deaths will happen regardless? How many deaths will happen and have already happened due to lockdown with people not seeking medical care, not willing or able to get regular preventative care, with increased suicides, and who-knows-what if the economy totally fizzles out? The lockdowns were supposed to be short (couple of weeks), temporary measures to prevent overwhelming healthcare facilities and should have been based on localities with such a threat. Not whole States, and certainly not for months.
Remember that around half of all deaths have been due to nursing home residents not being properly protected, and in some cases (like NY) put at far worse risk due to horrible policies. Almost all the remainder were high-risk, who are the ones who should be isolating and taking extra precautions until an effective treatment or vaccine is available. Locking down of everyone else, once we knew what was going on, was/is insanity.
With the exception of those who can't care for themselves, everyone has remarkable control over preventing their own infection with relatively simple hygiene measures. They can judge their own risk and should be free to take whatever measures they deem appropriate for themselves, but not for others.
^^^^^^^^^^^
Exactly!!!
-
Locking down of everyone else, once we knew what was going on, was/is insanity.
I personally believe that Jim Henson is still alive and making politicians in a basement somewhere.
Despite the contempt we have for our particular muppets, we agree that they actually managed to work together for the good of the country. Australians have an innate sense of 'a fair go' and after a bit of a stumble at the starting blocks we cheered them on as they did what was in our interests and not necessarily theirs. At that stage your leaders were still in the changerooms.
Yes our economy has taken a hit, but we can rebuild that. More important is that so far we lost only 103 poor souls along the way. It helps that we have universal healthcare and social security - without being even remotely communist.
With the exception of those who can't care for themselves, everyone has remarkable control over preventing their own infection with relatively simple hygiene measures. They can judge their own risk and should be free to take whatever measures they deem appropriate for themselves, but not for others.
I think you're giving them waaaay to much credit.
Excuse me for being smug, but we're sitting here inside our closed state borders, watching what happens when 'muh freedoms' comes up against the greater good. And we're genuinely surprised that you haven't full on started shooting each other - yet.
-
With the exception of those who can't care for themselves, everyone has remarkable control over preventing their own infection with relatively simple hygiene measures. They can judge their own risk and should be free to take whatever measures they deem appropriate for themselves, but not for others.
I think you're giving them waaaay to much credit.
Giving who too much credit? Adult citizens? So, they should be treated like children by the government and told what to wear, when to work, where they can go, and with whom to associate? Where does that end? I propose that is not the role nor the mission of government, certainly not in the USA.
Excuse me for being smug, but we're sitting here inside our closed state borders, watching what happens when 'muh freedoms' comes up against the greater good.
Then forgive me for being smug, but where you sit, you are in apparently no position to judge what it is like to have freedom. And freedom DOES serve the greater good, although it comes risk and responsibility. If you don't want freedom, that is fine, you can submit to whatever authorities you want, but don't assume that is the best course of action or try to take freedoms away from others.
And we're genuinely surprised that you haven't full on started shooting each other - yet.
I hope your "we're" doesn't presuppose you are speaking for all Australians. Based on such a comment, you have no idea what it is like to live here. Hint: it isn't what the media apparently portray, nor the movies. But here are some things to ponder while you pass judgement on the USA: Australia has a contact crime victimization rate that is more than double that of the USA. And Australia, which has virtually banned gun ownership (which, incidentally, had no effect on gun crime rate), has the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries.
So "we're" genuinely surprised that you haven't full on started robbing, raping, and assaulting each other - yet.
Do you wish to continue with such nonsense, or stick to a rational discussion of COVID-19?
-
I'm out. You have retreated to your safe place. I say something critical and you say we banned guns, therefore we don't know what freedom is. I might not be as "free" as you, but I'm not as afraid either.
But before I go, Australia has more guns now than there were before Port Arthur. We just don't let morons have them.
-
Well, well, well. I think that yet another CV thread has run it's course..