Connie ate 4th gear. What's that going to cost me.

[brownja]

2004 C10. 35,000 miles.

I must have missed a shift this morning, when I let out the clutch, i knocked all the teeth off 4th gear. Limped home 4 or 5 miles.

Any idea what that is going to cost me to fix?
I take the bike to the local Kawi dealer (New Haven Powersports). They have been decent with me over the years and I'm not comfortable attempting something like this.

Thanks,
jb

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

It'll be cheaper to buy a good used engine. Trust me.

  ETA - I seriously doubt you knocked the teeth off the gear. I dunno, maybe impossible. whay it more likely is a shift fork / drum failure. Either way it's a full engine teardown to access the guts of the engine.  Steve

[connie_rider]

That would be expensive.
I agree doubtful all the teeth were knocked out.
Agree with Steve. More likely shift mecanism.

Ride safe, Ted

[brownja]

I was just going  by sound and feel. Sounds like it's toast either way.

Thanks,
jb

[Motor Head]

 If you haven't already, I would first drain the oil and pull the filter to see if there is signs of such a failure.
 If there is no Metal pieces from a set of striped off teeth, then I'd pull the gear shift cover on the left side. Inspect the parts, look close at the end of the shift drum for bent or missing Pins.
 But if you do find the Gears are in the Pan, then I guess its up to your capability.  The Factory Service Manual will show you the steps for pulling the engine, then to split the cases for gear replacement. Feebay has the gears for Cheap. If you live in a colder climate you probably have plenty of time to do it over the next few months.
 If you need a Hard Copy of the Factory Manual, I have one.
 

[Kazairl]

Did the gears change on the C10 from the 86 to present? If not, I think I  have a full set of gears for a C10. I'll have to check when I get home.

[brownja]

Did the gears change on the C10 from the 86 to present? If not, I think I  have a full set of gears for a C10. I'll have to check when I get home.

Good question. I would think they would be the same from 1986-2006.
I'd be interested to hear if that is the case since I'll likely be shopping for parts, from you or ebay, soon.

[Motor Head]

 Kawasaki.com says they are the same.
https://www.kawasakiepc.com/SystemSearch_Frames.cfm?QuickSearch=1&SearchFor=ZG1000-A5&SearchBy=Model&cGroupID=&CFID=6128549&CFTOKEN=82854735

[Feo]

I too have a full set of Concours gears. From an '01 or a '98.

And maybe the shift mechanism stuff.

But if you want any of it, I'll stuff anything else I can get into the box along with the parts you wanted so I can get the things out of my way.

 

[kzz1king]

I would be looking for a complete motor. If it is weak swap out the heads,pistons and block with yours.. Be a lot easier than splitting the cases in my opinion.
Wayne

[Kazairl]

SteveWFL I am not but here is a quick pic showing what I have.

[Motor Head]

SteveWFL I am not but here is a quick pic showing what I have.

 Read through your Service manual, it will show that once the motor is removed, splitting the cases, replacing the Trans Gears is pretty straight forward.
 Doing the Top End Swap onto another used motor, that's actually more time consuming, then Gaskets etc.  If you Know your motor is good and its just a Gear issue. I would be Splitting, although not everyone will agree.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Read through your Service manual, it will show that once the motor is removed, splitting the cases, replacing the Trans Gears is pretty straight forward.
 Doing the Top End Swap onto another used motor, that's actually more time consuming, then Gaskets etc.  If you Know your motor is good and its just a Gear issue. I would be Splitting, although not everyone will agree.

   Motorhead - you would split the cases; I would split the cases; but we're engine guys. AND once they're apart you need to know what you're looking for to fix the issue. Proper cleanliness and surface prep is essential to a successful reassembly, as well and not forgetting any parts. The dealer will likely be asking 1500.00 + for this job, and IMO if he's been bringing the bike to a dealer it means he's not an engine guy. This is one of those times where DIY has to be based on the individuals ability, not yours or mine. Since engines can be bought for 400 to 500 for a fully assembled good runner, That's the only choice I'd see as viable. Steve

[connie_rider]

JB, I agree with MH on removing the filter and possibly the side case. Before you decide it's a total loss, see what come out of the oil.
After that, it's up to you to decideyour course of action.
I'm a decent mechanic, BUT bottom ends (and transmissions in particular) scare me to death. I would look for a good doner engine.

Keep us posted. Maybe someone can help youfigure out what happened after you see if any metal comes out.

Ride safe, Ted

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Ted - what's the metal going to tell him? he already KNOWS 4th gear is inoperable. I don't see the metal having anything to do with diagnostics on this one, and I tend to be pretty good at diagnosing. Again, I seriously doubt the gears are stripped. I think the shift drum / forks are going to be the issue here. If it was spread over other gears, I'd think the shift cam springs could be an issue, but he's only indicated the issue in 4th gear, and it must grind pretty bad if he thinks he "knocked all the teeth off" . Steve

[connie_rider]

I was thinking more of,,, is there lots of metal (indicating a major failure) ?
                                     Or no metal (indicating something more minor).

I'd hate for him to change an engine and then find out later that there was only a minor problem.
If there is no metal, I'd go a bit deeper before moving to the next stage.

I'm like you don't think the gear is stripped. I suspect dogs on 4th gear damaged, 4th gear shift fork bent, or the drum itself has a problem.
I'm interested in this problem as I've only worked on Dirt bike and small bike tranny's.
On those, worn/rounded gear dogs or a bent shift fork will make it kick in and out of gear. The bike makes a terrable noise, but actual damage is minor.

Ride safe, Ted

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Yes, actual damage is minor, actual metal in the pan is minor, but it won't shift into the effected gears, and a teardown os nessessary.

Hydrolocked engines don't put any metal in the pan either, but they're pretty well wasted and require teardown to fix.

Metal in the pan on this issue is inconsequential. Teardown and inspection is nessessary, and probably the only way to repair the issue. Why waste time looking at all the shiny pieces, or lack thereof? just sayin... steve

[sig]

From Switzerland Europe

Hello


Perhaps like me broken spring 

[George R. Young]

   Motorhead - you would split the cases; I would split the cases; but we're engine guys. . . .

Two reasons to split the engine:

1) You may be able to fix it and you have to take the engine out anyway to swap it.

2) If things go well, you can also remove the cursed Positive Neutral Finder and toss the little ball bearing over your left shoulder.

[kzz1king]

Two reasons to split the engine:

1) You may be able to fix it and you have to take the engine out anyway to swap it.

2) If things go well, you can also remove the cursed Positive Neutral Finder and toss the little ball bearing over your left shoulder.

Reason # 3)  You will learn something about the engine and your abilities or lack there of.
Wayne