Author Topic: Doing some fork maintenance... (Read 9421 times)

bbroj · « **Reply #20 on:** June 28, 2012, 06:01:53 PM »

Not sure if I should start a new topic or not, but this is related to my original problem. I have changed the fork oil and really don't notice any difference. So I started checking everything I could think of. Tire pressure, rear shock pressure, frame bolts, wheel bearings (just spinning the wheel, didn't remove the wheel or bearings) and everything seems ok. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the fork oil is new and spring lengths are within spec and equal. Also, no fork seal leaks. The bike feels generally "bouncy", or like it's hinged in the middle of the frame. So here's what I did find and the question that goes with it. The rear swingarm has some vertical free play, about 1/2 inch, is this normal? The play seems to come from the bolts securing the shock to the linkage and the 2 individual bolts securing the 2 pieces of the linkage to the frame. that's as close as I can tell as I,m working alone and have to lever the wheel up and down and try to see where the play is at the same time.

Ok, enough rambling, is there a free play spec for the swingarm?

enim57 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 28, 2012, 06:16:22 PM »

There should be no measureable freeplay. It appears your suspension linkage bearings are worn out. Pull it all apart and check them, if they are no good replace them with bronze bushes. Bronze bushes are better in this installation and cost way less than the bearings that can only be gotten from Kawasaki. For more details see post below.
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=6061.0

Regards, Russell

bbroj · « **Reply #22 on:** June 28, 2012, 07:32:45 PM »

Thanks, I hope I have the problem and the fix for my handling issues in hand! My free play is vertical, not lateral (at least not that I can perceive). But looking over the thread you linked to and the diagrams in the book, I can see where the bearings are located in the assembly and that you are quite correct, there should be no free play. My biggest problem now is that I'm not where my tools and and vise versa.

As a side note, there may be a "kit" opportunity here for Murph...

mlf73 · « **Reply #23 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:26:08 AM »

Hey Blaise. My garage and tools are open to you if you need them. I'm over here in Fuquay Varina not too far away if you recall. I'm normally around the house or close to home so just let me know if you'd like to take advantage. I don't think I'll be doing much over the upcoming holiday period as far as leaving town so most any time/day is probably doable. Just shoot me a message or you can email me at mlfagan73 at hotmail.

Marlan

bbroj · « **Reply #24 on:** June 29, 2012, 06:47:48 AM »

Thanks, Marlan. I may be taking you up on that, but probably not as soon as the holiday as I need to get the parts. The primary tools I know I'm lacking are a grease gun and a torque wrench. I want to have the new/replacement bushings in hand before tackling the job of tearing it all apart. What I discovered is if I "hug" the bike's rear wheel, face down on the seat facing the back of the bike, arms draped down each side with my fingers laced through the rear wheel, I can move the wheel up and down nearly 1/2 inch. Appearantly, this is NOT normal or good!

mlf73 · « **Reply #25 on:** June 29, 2012, 07:16:38 AM »

A torque wrench is one thing I don't have. I always just torque by feel. Just let me know if and when you need to do the work. I normally work from home and weekends usually don't involve big plans so I'm close by most of the time.

Marlan

snarf · « **Reply #26 on:** June 29, 2012, 07:28:12 AM »

Hey Blaise most parts stores have loner programs. Hell I have two or three 1/2" and 3/8" torque wrenches. Just give me the word and one of them will be headed your direction (I might even put a special edition of Rider magazine in the box)

bbroj · « **Reply #27 on:** June 29, 2012, 07:57:33 AM »

Thanks, Chris! I just remembered the loaner programs myself, that's the way I will go. I have 1/2 and 3/8" torque wrenches in my tool box, but that is 700 miles away

The only torque wrench I brought here with me is 1/4" drive, I doubt it is within the range I will need for this project. I need to collect the parts first, then I will set aside some time and get this done. It seems I can grease and adjust the swingarm bearings without the need for parts, so that will probably be this weekend. The shock linkage bushing replacement is another story, I need to get the bushings first and someone mentioned a seal that I need to go back and re-read to be sure I have it on hand. I also see a little weeping where the swing arm meets the final drive, not sure what kind of seal is there, but that needs to be replaced as well. Hmm, the swing arm needs to come out for the bushings to be replaced for the shock linkage, not much sense in adjusting the swingarm ahead of time...

T Cro ® · « **Reply #28 on:** June 30, 2012, 05:53:38 AM »

Quote from: bbroj on June 29, 2012, 07:57:33 AM

Hmm, the swing arm needs to come out for the bushings to be replaced for the shock linkage, not much sense in adjusting the swingarm ahead of time...

The swingarm does not need to be removed to install the bushings into the suspension linkage.

bbroj · « **Reply #29 on:** June 30, 2012, 06:23:00 AM »

Cool! That may give me something to do today, lube and adjust the swingarm! I thought I had read that the swingarm had to come out to do the bushings, thanks Tcro. Someone handed me a HF flyer yesterday and there is one nearby. They are running a special on torque wrenches, $12.99. For that price it's worth it even if it fails after a few uses. I have not looked carefully at this job, but I do know there is a "special tool" refered to in the book for setting the swingarm torque and locking the adjuster. Is it necessary or is there a simple work around?

T Cro ® · « **Reply #30 on:** June 30, 2012, 07:19:54 AM »

Quote from: bbroj on June 30, 2012, 06:23:00 AM

Cool! That may give me something to do today, lube and adjust the swingarm! I thought I had read that the swingarm had to come out to do the bushings, thanks Tcro. Someone handed me a HF flyer yesterday and there is one nearby. They are running a special on torque wrenches, $12.99. For that price it's worth it even if it fails after a few uses. I have not looked carefully at this job, but I do know there is a "special tool" refered to in the book for setting the swingarm torque and locking the adjuster. Is it necessary or is there a simple work around?

You can work around the special tooling.... I don't recall how I did mine when I installed the the 7th gear so it must have been fairly easy.

bbroj · « **Reply #31 on:** June 30, 2012, 07:24:18 AM »

Great, thanks again. It seems to me like a large (1/2'drive) socket with a smaller (1/4') extension through the middle to hold the adjuster in place may work, if that is even the setup (I'm picturing something like the valve adjusters). As long as you are willing to use vise-grips on the outside of the large socket...

MAN OF BLUES · « **Reply #32 on:** June 30, 2012, 11:26:12 AM »

Quote from: T Cro ® on June 30, 2012, 07:19:54 AM

You can work around the special tooling.... I don't recall how I did mine when I installed the the 7th gear so it must have been fairly easy.

i think that tool had a square drive stub for the socket, with a hole runing thru it so you can insert an allen key (6mm?) to hold the center bolt, and the stup was part of a flat bar with an offset square hole for the torque wrench to drive.

I think you can get away with using a torque wrench, with a "crow foot" end wrench (again, not sure of the hex size) attached, and this will give access to the center bolt.
looks kinda like this

Honestly I can't remember doing this procedure myself....my bad.

http://www.mcmaster.com/#drive-sockets/=i7dbx8

I think a lot of auto parts stores have loaner sets also.

bbroj · « **Reply #33 on:** June 30, 2012, 04:39:32 PM »

So after a long day tinkering with the bike, I have accomplished a few things and have come up with more questions than answers. I pulled the swingam, cleaned and packed the bearings, checked for fee movement and lateral play. All seems good, but I still need to gather the tools for a proper bearing adjustment. While I was in there, I looked at the shock linkage needle bearings and the bolt surfaces, they look great, really, nearly no signs of wear. That's good, except I have vertical movement in the swingarm when the linkages are all hooked up. It looks like the play is actually from the interface of the shoulder bolt and the dog bone linkages, where there is no bearing or bushing. Is any play here acceptable, or do I need new dog bones?

T Cro ® · « **Reply #34 on:** June 30, 2012, 07:44:23 PM »

Quote from: bbroj on June 30, 2012, 04:39:32 PM

.... except I have vertical movement in the swingarm when the linkages are all hooked up. It looks like the play is actually from the interface of the shoulder bolt and the dog bone linkages, where there is no bearing or bushing. Is any play here acceptable, or do I need new dog bones?

When I fitted the 6 bronze bushings in place of the needle bearing to my bike I also drilled the dog bone in a vertical mill and then hand fitted a bushing to remove that same slop. If I recall there was about half a millimeters worth of slop around the bolt. I will not say that it NEEDED to be done but I wanted it done.

bbroj · « **Reply #35 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:02:58 PM »

Interesting. No I'm wondering if I have found my handling issue at all. The needle bearings look good and so do the bolts, the swingarm bearings also looked fine and I repacked them. Do you think that minor amount of play that you discovered in yours, which is probably about what I have, but of course the added length of the swingarm etc makes it to about 1/2 inch at the wheel, would affect the handling of the bike?

T Cro ® · « **Reply #36 on:** June 30, 2012, 08:20:31 PM »

In my opinion that slop is not your handling issue as the slop for the most part go away when you put weight on the bike. The biggest thing I noticed with installing the bushings was just a smoother feeling in the rear end; no more squeeks.... If your still running a stock front end and OE air shock the bike will NEVER ride worth a hoot.

bbroj · « **Reply #37 on:** June 30, 2012, 09:09:22 PM »

Ok, so instead of trying to find a problem to explain why my bike doesn't seem to be handling well, just keep adding farkles and upgrades?

I like it!

Seriously, though, it seems that something has changed, unless my ability has inproved enough to pick up on sublties that I couldn't before. I like to believe I am improving as a rider, but I'm not convinced it's my perception that has changed instead of the bike. The next group of upgrades I believe to be pricy, and I'm not in a position to be doing those at this time (ZRX front end, new rear shock). I may see if I can find a reasonably priced fork brace and see what that does to improve the situation. It seems the bike wallows when leaned over, so maybe a difference in the fork legs would explain that.

T Cro ® · « **Reply #38 on:** July 01, 2012, 06:29:53 AM »

What tires are you using?

If you can find a ZZR rear shock without breaking your bank it is a great improvement over the stocker.

Replace the fork oil and springs with straight rate and find a fork brace.

This will have the most bang for the buck and if you move on the a ZRX front end later your money will not be a total loss as I had no problem selling off everything that I replaced on my bike in building it to my taste.

bbroj · « **Reply #39 on:** July 01, 2012, 06:51:17 AM »

Tires are Avon Storm up front and a Shinko 777 out back. The Shinko is relatively new and has seemed to handle my riding very well, I never even considered it as a possible handling issue. I don't give myself credit for being perceptive enough to know if this is a front end, rear end, frame or other issue, which is why I'm inspecting everything. It doesn't feel like something a tire would cause, but again, I could be wrong. Another rider I know (Outback_Jon) is running the Shinko and happy with it. Jon is a bigger rider and more agressive than I am, so I don't suspect the tire. I will look for a fork brace and see what deals I can get on suspension upgrades one piece at a time until it's time to upgrade the bike and start all over again!

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Author Topic: Doing some fork maintenance... (Read 9421 times)

enim57