Handling question

[bbroj]

I have a new and unusual sensation coming from the front of the bike. I have experienced it before, but on another bike and don't recall ever figuring out what it was before the bike got sold. It's difficult to describe, so bear with me while I try to find a few "feels like" scenarios. It feels like the front "dips" to one side, like when you're standing with all your weight on one leg and your buddy comes up behind you and bumps the back of the knee that's holding all of your weight. Another way to describe it is as if the front wheel is getting hit by a gust of wind, but just the wheel. It seems to be there at any speed and is not dramatic, but annoying. I have recently changed the fork oil and it was the same volume added to each leg, I checked the level as best I could and will try to check it again this weekend. The springs were equal length and within spec. I pulled the front wheel and checked the bearings, both are free and smooth. The brake pads have even wear, and I don't believe even if one was grabbing more than the other, it would have an effect (both discs are in the same plane as the wheel, and some bikes probably still come with single discs). It does not seem to favor one side or the other, but I have the sensation that it takes more input to turn right (this could me overthinking things, I have always leaned left easier and more confidently than right). So, any ideas?

[snarf]

Blaise Im no more of an expert than you are. I know that you said that you checked the front bearings by spinning the tire. Could this be a bearing issue? If the bearings were "grabing" would it feel like your describing? IDK very interesting; sorry I cant help brotha.

[bbroj]

Chris, I thought the same thing, so since that time I did pull the wheel and propperly check them. I stuck my finger in each bearing and turned them full circle feeling for any notchieness or binding. Nothin', they felt smooth free.

[Outback_Jon]

I have always leaned left easier and more confidently than right

Hey!  Keep the politics in the Arena.   

Check that you don't have a cable, hose, (brake or clutch lines) or wires catching the fork at some point.  Something catching over a bolt or edge that would hold and release the fork might give a weird feeling.  Steering head bearings would be another item I'd look at.

[bbroj]

Thanks, Jon. I did just change the speedometer cable, I'll check all of the hose/cable routings. I hope to pull and grease the head bearings, it is again, a matter of if I have all the tools I need with me, or if I call on other local COGers to help out with time and tools.

[mdr]

When does it give you this feeling?  Braking?  All the time?  Just with bumps?

I thought head bearings too.  If they're worn or 'dinked' from being too loose too long, or way too tight, they'll try to settle into their 'low spot'. 

I've not had this, but I could imagine if one leg was binding it would cause that feeling.  Maybe try the 'old zip tie trick' on both legs and see if they're both moving up the same amount.  Just wrap one (or two to make 'em long enough) just tight enough to hold it's position around each tube.  Slide 'em down to the dust cover.  Go ride.  After you stop (the important part), measure how much each has gone up.

Preload the same on each leg?  Same heights in the clamps?  Legs straight and aligned?

Worn tires can cause this too.  I had that problem, among many others, when I got Vrooomm.  It'll probably be easily visible as one side of the tire being more worn than the other.  If you have to look at it hard to tell, it's probably ok.  If you look at it and say "Holy Crap!", that's it

[bbroj]

I have not had the head bearings out, but have adjusted them. I want to remove, pack and readjust them, but I have to see if I have all of the necessary tools with me. I do not feel an on-center notch, either on the c-stand (unweighted forks) or on the ground (weighted forks). Admittedly, on the ground is more difficult to tell. I can and will try the zip tie test, probably on my way home today. I have read that this is also a good tool to use when determining front preload, mine are equal and forks are at the same height in the clamps. Tire wear is a possibility, but nothing screams at me when I look at the front tire, though I can see the begining of the front tire wearing flat around the center, just barely. I appreciate the input and will keep looking for the cause, keep the ideas coming!

[Daytona_Mike]

It is easy to check the stem bearings on the ground. Grab the front brake, rock the bike forward and back and feel with your finger right at the top of the frame were it meets the top stem bearing.

[bbroj]

Agreed, that's great for checking that they are not loose. I still want to get them out as they have not been greased since I've owned the bike, and that likely means they have never been done. I will use this method to check and adjust to see if it is my problem first though.

[bbroj]

I think I found my issue. I was going to try with the tools I have on hand to remove and repack the stem bearings, but decided to recheck things before begining to disassemble. I found a very subtle "on center" notch. I turned right through it each time I checked before, and even the first time or two on this attempt, but it's there, no doubt. I was thinking of asking if repacking would help, but I know the answer. Even if it did it would only mask the problem for a short while, time to replace the head bearings. I've done this before on a different bike, maybe 2 different bikes, and the process doesn't worry me, but my limited tool supply has me a bit anxious. Time too call up the troops and see if I can get another weekend tech-help session together  The "special tools" in the book all seem like they have relatively simple DIY alternatives, am I mistaken? Race removal tool=long drift pin, work slowly around the diameter. Race installation tool=threaded rod, washers and nuts. Stem adjustment tool=old shock adjust tool and/or small punch and hammer. Sound about right?

[redzgrider]

Since you are already questioning the steering bearings, a quick check is to move the bars with the front wheel off -- the reduction in mass makes bad bearings that much more noticible. I had 'notchy' steering a while back -- checked my bearings and found significant 'brinelling'

[gpzrocker]

That is what my swingarm bearings looked like.

[bbroj]

I may have some luck in gathering a few tools, my sister is coming down in a week so I may be able to have her bring a few items from my garage that I will need. I am wondering if anyone knows, or can check, the size of the steering stem head nut? I have Heli bars on my bike and would need to remove them just to get the plastic cover off to get to that nut to check its size. I will have her bring my torque wrenches for this and other projects and a few other misc items I need. any help with that nut size is appreciated as well as any tool suggestions that may help things go a bit easier.

[turbojoe78]

Not sure of the metric size, but I know a 1-1/16" will fit the steering head nut.

[bbroj]

Maybe 27mm? I have that here with me, it's the size needed to remove the rear wheel.

[Daytona_Mike]

Nope..
I been there and done that.
Race removal tool=long drift pin, work slowly around the diameter.

May work but most likely it will not work. You cannot get a drift pin or punch to catch the edge of the race. You need a steering stem removal tool. I spent all day getting that race out. I had to dremel out 2 small  l notches to get a custom ground and bent (heat with a torch and glowing to bend it) very long  punch to even reach and catch on the edge of the taper bearing and even then it took a lot of pounding. Not worth it so I have the correct tool now. 5 minutes with the tool.

 Race installation tool=threaded rod, washers and nuts.  Nope, it has to go in perfectly straight or it will jam sideways. Harbor Freight sells taper bearing install kit for very cheap and it works. You will take a chance scoring the face of the taper bearing without the correct tool.

Stem adjustment tool=old shock adjust tool and/or small punch and hammer. Sound about right?
Nope, you can do that but it eventually it will  make a mess of the nut and your going to be back at least once or twice to re adjust  as the bearing wears and seats itself in so your going to want the correct tool. I think I bought my tool from Murphs but I cant be sure. Some of the other folks here can tell  that preload adjuster wrenches from other bikes will fit our steering stem nut.

  I know the wrench is over  one inch.
I do believe  turbojoe78 is correct - a 1-1/16 will fit.  When metric sizes get big enough they seem to start matching some of the SAE sizes

[bbroj]

Well, thanks for rainin' on my parade  So you're saying all 3 special tools should be on hand for this job? I'll check Murph's and see what he has, I just ordered the bearing set. The bearing race press, can't be done even using the old bearings to help center the threaded rod? I can get big diameter rod, like 5/8 or 3/4 inch stuff. I want to do it right, but I am a Connie owner, frugal goes without saying!

[redzgrider]

The upper race is pretty easy to drive out -- the lip is easy to catch from the bottom. The lower race is the hard one, there is a recess that makes it very difficult to catch the edge of the race with a drift or screwdriver. Harbor Freight sells a bent tip pry bar that can work -- but 'can' is a weasel word. It's how I got mine out, but it was a lot of work.
http://www.harborfreight.com/4-piece-heavy-duty-pry-bar-set-1654.html
I've also used a large all-thread with big washers to drive the bearing cups back in -- I don't speak for others, but it worked for me.
I see that the K&L bearings from Mr. Murphy are made in Japan -- much better than All Balls first China quality.

[bbroj]

Will something like this http://www.harborfreight.com/3-jaw-pilot-bearing-puller-4876.html work for the lower race? I have not seen the inside of this assembly yet, so I don't know how much room there is before the lip that interferes with removing the race from the top. I have seen a similar tool with a slide hammer instead of the press assembly, any suggestions from those that have done it?

Here's the slide hammer one http://www.harborfreight.com/blind-hole-bearing-puller-95987.html

[bbroj]

Still looking for some help and advice here. I have the bearings and plan on doing this project next weekend. For anyone who has done this, the book says to remove the fairing, is it really necessary? I have read several threads and an article in the Concourier, no one mentions if the fairing actually has to be removed or not. Also, several have mentioned difficulty removing the lower bearing as well as the bearing race. I'm hoping a pilot bearing removal tool will do for the race (see my previous post), any experienced advice on either the race or bearing removal will be appreciated. Thanks.