Kawasaki Concours Forum

Riding => It's not a Concours - other Bikes => Topic started by: rcannon409 on July 09, 2012, 06:54:40 PM

Title: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 09, 2012, 06:54:40 PM
Well, its like this.  I love my c14 and dont see myself parting with it for  a long  time since I was able to get the seat and bar position to my liking.

So, I stopped into the local shop today for a c14 oil filter.  I was looking at an fz1, thinking how it might be nice for in town work, single up.  They had a nice, white 2011 that looked really good.

I overhear another customer looking at a zx14, limited.  He had a ninja 1000 for a month and wanted something Bigger, faster, etc.  So I listened.  His 2012 ninja was green, but no abs...oh, well....

Plus, the damn ninja needs the gas tank filled...can you believe that?  PLUS, it was a millionth of an inch too tall to fit in my van.   Yes, some bad words were said.

So, I ended up paying under a lot under10 for a 2012 under warranty. maybe our guy here can help me with an extension???  I would post  a pic, but its nto here!

Again, I love my c14, and its going nowhere.  I wan tit in tip-top condition for two up ridign/touring.  Plus, its a little too much for short rides.  Too heavy, too much power, and bulky.  If all my rider were over 20 miles, I'd stick with the c14.

Be warned, if making the same decision, or thinking about a ninja.  Insurance is seriously nuts on the ninja1k.  Progressive thinks its an official world superbike and wants a grand a year for good coverage.  I found another company called AMIG thats wants 272.00 per year for better coverage.  They may get all of my bikes and Progressive can kiss my ass.

So, heres what I'll have tomorrow..if I live long enough. My Cannon family has terrible genetics and we generally dont live much past 45 years old.  I've over the wall at 46.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Jeremy Mitchell on July 09, 2012, 06:59:24 PM
Post some pics before you die!   ;D


Good find! 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: EpicBadass on July 09, 2012, 07:46:07 PM
Did you give progressive the VIN # on the bike?  I know some of the insurance companies are really struggling with the ninja 1k and rating it as they would a zx10r. 

Either way hope you enjoy the bike, I've test rode em and they're pretty fun!
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 09, 2012, 09:24:39 PM
I did give progressive the vin and registered a complaint.   I told them this needs to be dealt with by friday, or me, the cars, and the other three bikes are going away.  Theres no reason this bike should cost twice what a z1000 costs in insurance.

Its actually a company worth fighting.   They went above and beyond the afternoon  my rental  car was punted into in the Hudson river.  Right  in the area of Sleepy Hollow (headless horseman). I'll feel bad switching, but the cost is 272 per yr vs 907....for worse coverage.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: JeffM on July 09, 2012, 11:37:02 PM
Try State Farm. My understanding is they go by the displacement, rather than the model #.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 10, 2012, 06:30:40 AM
I'll give them a cal as well, thank you.  Seriously, I wonder how progressive messed this one up so badly? Geico was sky-high as well.

I found a place called American Modern Insurance Group and they are 1/4 the price on the ninja and slightly less on the c14....No idea if its a good company or not, but we'll see. 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 10, 2012, 07:54:11 AM
The guy I ride with and I both have Concours and Ninja 1000's.  Your Concours is about to get very lonely.  We have to force ourselves to ride the Concours every so often except for our annual trips.

And yes, the insurance is goofy.  Geico is the same btw.  I don't carry collision on mine.

(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/jjscorvettec6/Ninjac14gwside1000.jpg)
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 10, 2012, 07:55:22 AM
Try State Farm. My understanding is they go by the displacement, rather than the model #.

Very doubtful.  Do you think they are less on an 1800cc cruiser than they are on 1000 cc "crotch rockets"? 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: lt1 on July 10, 2012, 08:10:59 AM
Very doubtful.  Do you think they are less on an 1800cc cruiser than they are on 1000 cc "crotch rockets"? 

If you are actually interested, perhaps you should actually check it out, rather than merely doubting.  Over the years, I have discovered that practices vary widely between states and carriers and probably between owner categories.  In AZ, for example, there are carriers who charge only by displacement (or a combination of cc's & MSRP), at least for certain age groups of riders.  So yes, I could get ZX14 coverage for the same price as C14 coverage.  They apparently feel that the risk is more based on the rider than on the bike.  Depending on your circumstances, that could be a good thing or a bad thing.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: JeffM on July 10, 2012, 08:21:15 AM
Very doubtful.  Do you think they are less on an 1800cc cruiser than they are on 1000 cc "crotch rockets"?

If I'm correct, and according to my co-worker who is also a State Farm agent I am - I wouldn't expect a 1800 anything be cheaper than a 1000 anything else.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 10, 2012, 08:43:18 AM
If you are actually interested, perhaps you should actually check it out, rather than merely doubting.  Over the years, I have discovered that practices vary widely between states and carriers and probably between owner categories.  In AZ, for example, there are carriers who charge only by displacement (or a combination of cc's & MSRP), at least for certain age groups of riders.  So yes, I could get ZX14 coverage for the same price as C14 coverage.  They apparently feel that the risk is more based on the rider than on the bike.  Depending on your circumstances, that could be a good thing or a bad thing.

What, I'm not allowed to doubt something without looking it up?  Sorry, but a company as major as State Farm is not likely to be that naive.  Sure, I could be wrong and maybe I am.  But I stand by my statement that it's doubtful.  I could see a C14 and ZX being the same because they are both sport oriented.  But comparing a 1000 cc ZX10r to an 1800 VTX or Harley Road Glide is not likely to be cheaper just because it has nearly half the displacement.    Big insurance companies are very sophisticated when it comes to how they rate vehicles. 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: lt1 on July 10, 2012, 09:14:33 AM
Oh, you're allowed to doubt, all right.  But you miss out on stuff when you don't listen to people who have the answers.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Fretka on July 10, 2012, 10:22:36 AM
Congrats Roland! Now starts the slight guilt feelings when one bike gets used more than the other!
Are you gonna tune it now that you have fuel injection mapping figured out?

And Jim..... that 'vette lurking over in the corner of the garage looks like it might be some serious "kit".

Is it a Z06 or ZR-1?

Fretka
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: maxtog on July 10, 2012, 04:31:56 PM
Try State Farm. My understanding is they go by the displacement, rather than the model #.

I don't believe that is true.  Their rates are VERY different between the GTR-1400 and the ZX14, for example.  Of course, calling and asking is far better than speculation.  I have been told that rates can vary from region to region, not just by size/model.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 10, 2012, 04:34:30 PM
Congrats Roland! Now starts the slight guilt feelings when one bike gets used more than the other!
Are you gonna tune it now that you have fuel injection mapping figured out?

And Jim..... that 'vette lurking over in the corner of the garage looks like it might be some serious "kit".

Is it a Z06 or ZR-1?

Fretka

Oh, that funny!  Figured out...yea.....YOU taught me all I know, and I'm still reading .  Sure, why not tune, though.  If it offers even 1/4 the improvement you got me on the c14, I would be thrilled.

I can plug the pcv into my laptop all by myself....with a flashlight.

Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 10, 2012, 04:44:39 PM
The guy I ride with and I both have Concours and Ninja 1000's.  Your Concours is about to get very lonely.  We have to force ourselves to ride the Concours every so often except for our annual trips.

And yes, the insurance is goofy.  Geico is the same btw.  I don't carry collision on mine.

(http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff71/jjscorvettec6/Ninjac14gwside1000.jpg)

I think your right.  I LOVE my 14 for two up work and its damn good for single up as well.  Scary fast in a tight canyon.  Still, its a compromise....a damn good one at that, but heres my thoughts....

The c14 feels one size too large when in town.  Not that it wont do it, cause it will.  Just one size too large. But perfect for the freeway.  I wanted something for local riding, the under 100 mile trips.  I'll use th ec14 for long range stuff or days when I need to carry a lot. Plus, I'm carrying my wife and it will be easy to keep the tires and such in perfect condition.

Kawi SHOULD make a new c10, actually, based on the ninja 1000.  I dont think it would compete with either if they kept the weight in the high 500 range.  Based on the number of ninja 1000's for sale, they are selling well.  There are 2 2012's left in  Utah..both black, gray, non abs.  Kawasaki has 1 green and black in the warehouse..thats it.

Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Kazairl on July 10, 2012, 04:46:19 PM
Looks like a Z06 to me.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 10, 2012, 07:38:20 PM
So, I got the first 50 miles out of the way. I really like the bike.  BUT, its no c 14.   I believe my c14 with files removed and the pcv added is faster.  Its certainly smoother.   Low end torque is very good.   Its nto very smooth, although that coudl change as break-in happens.  Smooth enough, but those who say the c14 is rough woudl hate it.

The little windshield is good, though.  It smooths the air more so than blocking it.  Heres the first picture.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Jeremy Mitchell on July 10, 2012, 08:12:19 PM
Love the color, now get rid of the mud flap and go ride!   ;)
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 10, 2012, 08:14:17 PM
Yea, that flap sucks. I removed the reflectors, but my cordless dremel was dead...that flap...I did nto see a way to cut it and make it look decent, so I ordered  a muzzy's.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: TJ on July 11, 2012, 12:16:43 AM
How does the Ninja handlebar position compare to the C14?
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: pistole on July 11, 2012, 01:26:10 AM
.

- how's the Z1000's engine ? Buzzy ? Smooth ?

- still being broken in ?

.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: martin_14 on July 11, 2012, 01:42:26 AM
I can offer a very limited opinion about how the C14 and the ninja 1000 compare because I drove it a few times when toying with the idea of getting rid of my 1400GTR and getting something lighter without loosing much in the sense of performance.
First things first: the 1400 engine has 2 balance shafts, the 1000 has 1, and it shows. Whereas my 1400 had that dreadful buzz at 4500 rpm (that I got rid off with the washer trick on the handlebar weights), the 1000 buzzes all over the place. I-DO-NOT-LIKE-IT. On the other hand, that's about all that I can critizise from that bike. Engine response seems better than that of the 1400, without the stupid hesitation at low revs, and the weight difference and gearing make up for the disadvantage in torque. Comfort wise I can't really authoritatively comment, but it looked to me in a different (lower) league than the Concours. Not bad, just not the kind of bike I'd choose to cover serious mileage (>500 miles in one go).
A different bike and, for somebody who travels less than I do, definitely the better option. I'd recommend it without reservations.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 11, 2012, 01:51:45 AM
How does the Ninja handlebar position compare to the C14?

The bar position is more leaned forward, but not enough to be uncomfortable like the ss bikes I've ridden.  The pegs are also higher, and further back, but comfortable.  The bars do sit closer than the c14 bars and do not have the odd angle at the end.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: uspmike on July 11, 2012, 04:59:13 AM
Just bought a 2011 Ninja 1000 and its been fun so far. The riding position is comfortable for me but the thing is pretty vibey. Its geared a bit low but it pulls good in any gear and there's not a lot of need to be shifting all the time. Its a very nimble machine and my pick when the wife isn't with me.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Fretka on July 11, 2012, 10:40:10 AM
Kaw kept the chain adjusters first found on the old 1984 Ninja 900. They look great and are easy to use.

Very nice.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 11, 2012, 06:16:15 PM
Fretka, if I'm not mistaken, I can use the adjusters as a ride height adjust, right?  Shifting them 180 degrees should be higher, but the same tension????

The engine is not smooth, but not v twin rough either.  Its nto bad, actually.  I love the low end torque, though.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 11, 2012, 07:06:17 PM
Congrats Roland! Now starts the slight guilt feelings when one bike gets used more than the other!
Are you gonna tune it now that you have fuel injection mapping figured out?

And Jim..... that 'vette lurking over in the corner of the garage looks like it might be some serious "kit".

Is it a Z06 or ZR-1?

Fretka

It is a Z06 that I had for three and half years.  It kills me to say this, but I sold it about a week after I took that picture. It was a weekend car, and after owning six Corvettes in the past ten years I decided it was time to take the money and invest in something that would grow for my retirement (about seven years away).  I love the car, but just decided it was time.  I made myself feel a little better by trading my then daily driver for a new BMW 550 M-Sport.  Still hard to think about the Corvette though.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 11, 2012, 07:09:15 PM
So, I got the first 50 miles out of the way. I really like the bike.  BUT, its no c 14.   I believe my c14 with files removed and the pcv added is faster.  Its certainly smoother.   Low end torque is very good.   Its nto very smooth, although that coudl change as break-in happens.  Smooth enough, but those who say the c14 is rough woudl hate it.

The little windshield is good, though.  It smooths the air more so than blocking it.  Heres the first picture.

I should have mentioned, my Ninja 1000 has a full Akrapovik and PCV.  It dynod at  122 hp stock and now 140.  I don't think your Concours will stay with mine.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 11, 2012, 07:12:22 PM
How does the Ninja handlebar position compare to the C14?

I'm not sure if rcannon has risers on his Concours or not.  I can tell you absolutely, both being stock, that the reach to the bars is noticeably further on the Concours.  I'm always surprised by that when I get on the Concours.  Also, your hands will not go as numb on the Ninja 1000.  BTW, the guy I ride with who also has both bikes completely agrees with my comments here.  The Ninja actually has better ergos for me than the Concours.  Obviously it will vary by rider.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Jeremy Mitchell on July 11, 2012, 07:22:55 PM
I would definitely take the Ninja 1000 for around town/shorter rides.  I sat on one a couple weeks ago and it was a very comfortable bike.  My legs would probably feel cramped after 30-45 minutes but the seating position and bars seemed to fit me very well, which surprised me.  I still want to take one for a ride but I know a second bike won't be in the cards for at least a year or so. 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 11, 2012, 09:28:11 PM
My c14 has the wedges only, but a low sargent seat. This meant the bars ended up feeling higher, by a little anyway.  But, as Jeremy said, the ninja bars are way closer.

I'll take a side by side pic of both bikes so you can see the size difference between them. The ninja is tiny.  I wish the ninja windshield guys woudl take over the c14 fairing. 103 degrees tonight and no heat issues on the ninja, and the goofy little windshield is amazing.
I took the ninja up on the freeway tonight and really enjoyed it. Great midrange power and it felt fairly smooth at normal cruising speeds...70-80.  Very stable, surprisingly so. I dont think the stock tires are good and cannot wait until they wear out.

It was funny, though. The c14 has that tall 6th gear that makes things feel calm and relaxed at felony speeding levels.  The ninja does not have  a gear indicator, which is fine, but i kept looking for 7th or 8th gear.   



JJS6, Your ninja sounds fun and I totally get hopping one up and adding 20hp on top.

..Now, as of today, heres is where I'm at with mine..The ninja would be fun to hop up, I suppose, but I'm not trying to race it.  I could have spent the same money and ended up with 180hp to be honest as the shop had a killer deal on a used BMW s1000rr.

  Its always been easy to get high peak hp, btu I dont want that on the street since its not usable.  If you look at  a dyno chart, a c14 (with files removed) has almost twice as much torque as the ninja 1000. For street riding, thats much more fun,   and useful.  I'll probably add an exhaust, though, since the stock exhaust on the ninja is goofy.

Plus, if you look at dyno charts, a full on supersport only pullls ahead of a ninja 1000 after 10,000 rpm's, so its not slow.



Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 12, 2012, 05:52:50 AM
My c14 has the wedges only, but a low sargent seat. This meant the bars ended up feeling higher, by a little anyway.  But, as Jeremy said, the ninja bars are way closer.

I'll take a side by side pic of both bikes so you can see the size difference between them. The ninja is tiny.  I wish the ninja windshield guys woudl take over the c14 fairing. 103 degrees tonight and no heat issues on the ninja, and the goofy little windshield is amazing.
I took the ninja up on the freeway tonight and really enjoyed it. Great midrange power and it felt fairly smooth at normal cruising speeds...70-80.  Very stable, surprisingly so. I dont think the stock tires are good and cannot wait until they wear out.

It was funny, though. The c14 has that tall 6th gear that makes things feel calm and relaxed at felony speeding levels.  The ninja does not have  a gear indicator, which is fine, but i kept looking for 7th or 8th gear.   



JJS6, Your ninja sounds fun and I totally get hopping one up and adding 20hp on top.

..Now, as of today, heres is where I'm at with mine..The ninja would be fun to hop up, I suppose, but I'm not trying to race it.  I could have spent the same money and ended up with 180hp to be honest as the shop had a killer deal on a used BMW s1000rr.

  Its always been easy to get high peak hp, btu I dont want that on the street since its not usable.  If you look at  a dyno chart, a c14 (with files removed) has almost twice as much torque as the ninja 1000. For street riding, thats much more fun,   and useful.  I'll probably add an exhaust, though, since the stock exhaust on the ninja is goofy.

Plus, if you look at dyno charts, a full on supersport only pullls ahead of a ninja 1000 after 10,000 rpm's, so its not slow.

I have not ridden a Concours set up like yours, but I cannot even fathom that the Concours could have more response than the Ninja.  No need talking about how much torque there is because that is only a part of it.  Lighter weight and gearing make up a huge amount of why the Ninja is more responsive.  I have not tried it, but I would bet money that in a 60mph roll on, my Ninja (even stock) would pull away from the Concours in sixth gear even if I downshifted the Concours to fourth.  The guy I ride with agrees.   I would not think that any mods to the Concours short of a turbo would make up the difference. 

It's a nice conversation to have between the two bikes though, isn't it  :chugbeer:
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: martin_14 on July 12, 2012, 06:00:35 AM
I just came from a short test drive with an Aprilia Tuono Factory, and being such a radically different bike from the C14 I can't help wondering what a shorter gearing would do for everything we're saying here  :popcorn:
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 12, 2012, 06:21:07 AM
I have not ridden a Concours set up like yours, but I cannot even fathom that the Concours could have more response than the Ninja.  No need talking about how much torque there is because that is only a part of it.  Lighter weight and gearing make up a huge amount of why the Ninja is more responsive.  I have not tried it, but I would bet money that in a 60mph roll on, my Ninja (even stock) would pull away from the Concours in sixth gear even if I downshifted the Concours to fourth.  The guy I ride with agrees.   I would not think that any mods to the Concours short of a turbo would make up the difference. 

It's a nice conversation to have between the two bikes though, isn't it  :chugbeer:

It is a fun conversation to have because they are both so different, yet theres  still a feeling abotu them where you know they are related.  Sort of like the Kardashians, maybe. The Ninja 1000 is Kim, and the c14 is Khloe.   

You might be right about this. It would be a fun test to do, for sure.  The Ninja is responsive..two stroke dirt bike like responsive, and a whole lot lighter.   How does the pipe sound, because it sure is beautiful?  I'm really in a position where I cannot make this bike loud.

 It looks like a slip on system wont do much since that cat would stay behind.  Actually, that needs to go. Sorry Mr Gore. 

I saw the"official" Kawasaki dealer rebate book.  ALL bikes, except 2 , have nice rebates this month.   Yep..thats right. The Ninja 1000 and the Concours 14 have no rebate.  They do offer 60 month, zero percent finiancing, though. 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 12, 2012, 08:41:21 AM
It's not really that loud with the silencers in. Louder than stock, but I frequently ride it out of my neighborhood at 7:00 on Sunday mornings and never feel like I'm going to **** off the neighbors.  With the silencers out it is wicked sounding, but even too loud for me (I like a little loud, but not to where it becomes an irritant to others in normal cruising).
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Kazairl on July 12, 2012, 10:01:46 AM
I always thought of the Ninja 1k as a baby Concours anyways. When I decided to trade off my C14 it came down to either the 1k or a zx14. There were a lot of things I liked about the 1k namely the light weight. Plus the simplicity of the windshield. The manually adjustable just makes sense. My electric one was nice but it was either all the way up or all the way down. I never did get a chance to ride the 1k just sat on several at dealerships.

 The dealer I was at let me ride a used zx14 and all thoughts of any other bike promptly left my head. lol
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: lt1 on July 12, 2012, 10:21:32 AM
I have not ridden a Concours set up like yours, but I cannot even fathom that the Concours could have more response than the Ninja.  No need talking about how much torque there is because that is only a part of it.  Lighter weight and gearing make up a huge amount of why the Ninja is more responsive.  I have not tried it, but I would bet money that in a 60mph roll on, my Ninja (even stock) would pull away from the Concours in sixth gear even if I downshifted the Concours to fourth.  The guy I ride with agrees.   I would not think that any mods to the Concours short of a turbo would make up the difference. 

It's a nice conversation to have between the two bikes though, isn't it  :chugbeer:
Jim, why not just run the test?  You have simultaneous access to both bikes and a (willing?) tester.  If the nearest "closed course" isn't too far away, we'd love to hear the actual test results.  My willing tester for such activities has move to OR for a couple of years, and the rest of the guys I ride with are less "scientifically inclined".  :)
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: Fretka on July 12, 2012, 11:27:09 AM
Fretka, if I'm not mistaken, I can use the adjusters as a ride height adjust, right?  Shifting them 180 degrees should be higher, but the same tension????

The engine is not smooth, but not v twin rough either.  Its nto bad, actually.  I love the low end torque, though.

Yes, you can.... at least the old bike you could, I ran mine that way almost 30 years ago!!!   :o

Should make it steer faster as you know, maybe drop the front 5 or 10 mm's as well.

Thanks for the compliment on tuning injection but as I remember any questions that I answered were just to confirm what you already knew!

Did you get the idle-2% throttle issue cleared-up? If so, you might think about posting what you did as it seems others have some of the same issues.  Just a thought.

Have fun Roland

Fretka
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: TJ on July 12, 2012, 11:33:54 AM

I saw the"official" Kawasaki dealer rebate book.  ALL bikes, except 2 , have nice rebates this month.   Yep..thats right. The Ninja 1000 and the Concours 14 have no rebate.  They do offer 60 month, zero percent finiancing, though.

Visited Kawasaki's web site and they have not updated it yet. Could you find out the rebate for the KLR 650?
Thanks
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 12, 2012, 12:55:44 PM
Jim, why not just run the test?  You have simultaneous access to both bikes and a (willing?) tester.  If the nearest "closed course" isn't too far away, we'd love to hear the actual test results.  My willing tester for such activities has move to OR for a couple of years, and the rest of the guys I ride with are less "scientifically inclined".  :)

Honestly, if you rode both of my bikes you'd know why I don't feel the need to.  I promise you that my Ninja will run off and hide from the Concours, as well is should.  It has more horsepower and weighs 200 lbs less, and has much lower gearing.  My friend and I don't usually ride the different bikes on the same day (yeah I know, we are kind of queer about that  :o) but if we ever do I'll tell him the forum wants us to run them to see how bad the carnage is.  BTW, we actually both have three bikes.  In addition to both having a Concours and Ninja, he has a Ducati 1198S and I have a Goldwing.  We've ridden those two together once.  The Ducati is a little faster  ;D
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 12, 2012, 08:08:52 PM
Yes, you can.... at least the old bike you could, I ran mine that way almost 30 years ago!!!   :o

Should make it steer faster as you know, maybe drop the front 5 or 10 mm's as well.

Thanks for the compliment on tuning injection but as I remember any questions that I answered were just to confirm what you already knew!

Did you get the idle-2% throttle issue cleared-up? If so, you might think about posting what you did as it seems others have some of the same issues.  Just a thought.

Have fun Roland

Fretka

Yes, I did make that much better.  I'm running the fuel moto map in my c14.  PCV, files removed, and a Leo Vince slip on.  I was gettign a flat spot in tha tidle-2% range, at 1500-2000 rpm.  Just like a too lean pilot jet...which it basically was.

Fuel Moto was not much interested as they said this was lugging the bike.  I see that, except you do have to get through that rpm range every time you ride the bike...

You taught me how to read the dynojet table.  I noticed the fm map was taking away a lot of fuel in that exact range.  I did what you suggested and added back in 5% in that range.  The flat-spot decreased 90 percent when the bike is cold, and is gone when the engine is warm.

Now, the Ninja has what feels like a perfect map.  BUT, the idle appears to have an automatic fast idle for about the first 1 minute after starting the engine.  I've not felt that with the c14.....
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 12, 2012, 08:11:38 PM
The next bike I"ll get ....the Versys 1000. Assuming we can ever get them in America. This Ninja engine is great, and actually feels very v twin like....well, v twin that revs and makes big power.  I dont care to offroad with it, but it would make an amazing offroad engine.

   
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 12, 2012, 10:14:21 PM
It is funny how these two get compared so often, and probably a tribute to the Concours that it is compared.    The Concours feels massive when you climb on after being on the Ninja.  Not to mention passenger accommodations. The Ninja does have a seat and pegs for one, but barely.   Still, I love it.

I think my drivers license will as well.  I've been riding the concours as my only streetbike for the past 6 months.  I had an sv650s that was modified, but it just did not work very well coming off the c14. No brakes, no power, great handling though, and light. At least it was supposed to be light on a scale.  BUT, the fuel was positioned so high, and the bike set high.   It had a very uncomfortable feel to it at low speed and the bars seat, and pegs, were all wrong. The c14 was is smooth, comfortable, and relaxed feeling (at any speed) that I have to really watch the speedo carefully.  The ninja has that feeling of speed where 80 miles an hour feels like your moving.

The Ninja has a v twin like feel at low rpm's. WAY more torque than an inline four is supposed to have.  I hope the ninja front brakes break-in better, or I'll have to get some different pads.  So far, they are not as strong as the c14. The master cylinder is the same, but it has Tokico calipers instead of the Nissin.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 13, 2012, 06:06:43 AM
Yes, I did make that much better.  I'm running the fuel moto map in my c14.  PCV, files removed, and a Leo Vince slip on.  I was gettign a flat spot in tha tidle-2% range, at 1500-2000 rpm.  Just like a too lean pilot jet...which it basically was.

Fuel Moto was not much interested as they said this was lugging the bike.  I see that, except you do have to get through that rpm range every time you ride the bike...

You taught me how to read the dynojet table.  I noticed the fm map was taking away a lot of fuel in that exact range.  I did what you suggested and added back in 5% in that range.  The flat-spot decreased 90 percent when the bike is cold, and is gone when the engine is warm.

Now, the Ninja has what feels like a perfect map.  BUT, the idle appears to have an automatic fast idle for about the first 1 minute after starting the engine.  I've not felt that with the c14.....

What year is your Concours?
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 13, 2012, 07:43:51 AM
My Concours is a 2008 abs model.  Stock, except for the fly removal and LeoVince slip on. PCV as well, but nothing serious.  I almost posted that I wished my Ninja had abs, but hate to open that can of worms.  I know Kawasaki brought them in this year with abs, but I never saw one.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 13, 2012, 08:38:54 AM
My Concours is a 2008 abs model.  Stock, except for the fly removal and LeoVince slip on. PCV as well, but nothing serious.  I almost posted that I wished my Ninja had abs, but hate to open that can of worms.  I know Kawasaki brought them in this year with abs, but I never saw one.

OK.  I have been wondering if anyone with a 10 or newer Concours had a PCV on it (because of the "eco" mode on the newer ones).

I agonized over whether to get an ABS or not as I swore I would never buy another bike without it.  But I liked the 2011 black ones and there were plenty of them available, and I rationalized that I mainly care about ABS in the rain and would seldom ride the Ninja in the rain.  So much for that, in the past two weeks I've ridden it twice in the rain. 
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 13, 2012, 12:27:40 PM
OK.  I have been wondering if anyone with a 10 or newer Concours had a PCV on it (because of the "eco" mode on the newer ones).

I agonized over whether to get an ABS or not as I swore I would never buy another bike without it.  But I liked the 2011 black ones and there were plenty of them available, and I rationalized that I mainly care about ABS in the rain and would seldom ride the Ninja in the rain.  So much for that, in the past two weeks I've ridden it twice in the rain.

LOL...I could have made this post.  Plus, I was caught in the rain this morning...on the non abs Ninja.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 13, 2012, 04:18:38 PM
LOL...I could have made this post.  Plus, I was caught in the rain this morning...on the non abs Ninja.

There is a good chance I'll get caught in the rain again tomorrow.  I have not ridden the bike since July 4th (yeah,  whopping 9 days) and I'm having withdrawals.  8)
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 13, 2012, 07:26:21 PM
Its not rained here for at least 6 weeks.  The last week was over 100.   I buy the bike.   I was nto abel to ride it home, even, since I was on call at work.

I did ride 50 miles total, but it was tough to find the time.  Then my 8 year old granddaughter moved in with us...which is wonderful and this has truly been my dream come true.   So no complaints about not riding today.  The instant my wife made it home today, it started to rain, and is supposed to for the next few days.  So, since no riding, I decided to install the Muzzy fender eliminator

I installed my Muzzy fender eliminator tonight and it looks much better and is a well made part.  However, wire routing was a nightmare. The subfram eon the Ninja 1000 is a work of art.  I've never seen a subframe with this much technology in it.  It reminds me of a Cannondale bicycle frame in quality.

Its a cast piece and every square inch of it has been utilized.  There's even a cast hollow area to hold the tool kit and it woudl even hold extra tools.  A person coudl probably fit two 12 oz sodas in there as well as the toolkit.  I had mine put together by the time I thought of it, but heres a picture of one.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-1000-ZX1000-Rear-sub-frame-subframe-under-seat-section-/271008393228?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f195be80c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-1000-ZX1000-Rear-sub-frame-subframe-under-seat-section-/271008393228?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f195be80c&vxp=mtr)

My granddaughter does like the ninja.  She bugged me all day to "paint my fingernails" since she said she had an idea for a design. I let her do one finger as it was already smashed and purple....

Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: jjsC6 on July 13, 2012, 07:55:59 PM
Its not rained here for at least 6 weeks.  The last week was over 100.   I buy the bike.   I was nto abel to ride it home, even, since I was on call at work.

I did ride 50 miles total, but it was tough to find the time.  Then my 8 year old granddaughter moved in with us...which is wonderful and this has truly been my dream come true.   So no complaints about not riding today.  The instant my wife made it home today, it started to rain, and is supposed to for the next few days.  So, since no riding, I decided to install the Muzzy fender eliminator

I installed my Muzzy fender eliminator tonight and it looks much better and is a well made part.  However, wire routing was a nightmare. The subfram eon the Ninja 1000 is a work of art.  I've never seen a subframe with this much technology in it.  It reminds me of a Cannondale bicycle frame in quality.

Its a cast piece and every square inch of it has been utilized.  There's even a cast hollow area to hold the tool kit and it woudl even hold extra tools.  A person coudl probably fit two 12 oz sodas in there as well as the toolkit.  I had mine put together by the time I thought of it, but heres a picture of one.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-1000-ZX1000-Rear-sub-frame-subframe-under-seat-section-/271008393228?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f195be80c&vxp=mtr (http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-1000-ZX1000-Rear-sub-frame-subframe-under-seat-section-/271008393228?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f195be80c&vxp=mtr)

My granddaughter does like the ninja.  She bugged me all day to "paint my fingernails" since she said she had an idea for a design. I let her do one finger as it was already smashed and purple....

You'd be amazed at what I keep under there.  Also, under the seat is room for a tire repair kit.  I just be sure I have an allen wrench in the tool kit to take the seat off.  I also have my Power Commander and Auto tune under the seat. I have not gotten around to the fender eliminator yet.  In case you have any questions, here are the mods I have done to mine...

Akrapovik Full Race Exhaust
BMC air filter element
Power Commander (PCV)
PCV Auto Tune module
Ivans PAIR block off plate
Ivans servo eliminator
    Here is a Link to the Ivans stuff..  http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/2010z1000.htm (http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/2010z1000.htm)
Sargent seat
Heal Tech Gear indicator (Gipro)
Radar Detector & Marc Parnes LEDs for the Radar Detector
Kawasaki Rear Cowl (replaces rear seat)
Powerlet for heated jacket liner

I think that's all.  I plan to do the fender eliminator and smoked wind screen and probably heated grips for winter
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 13, 2012, 08:49:39 PM
I dont think I mentioned this about the rebate, though. I would have loved the rebate, BUT Kawasaki is offering 0 down, zero percent, for 60 months and the ninja 1000 and c14 both qualify.

JJS, thats a nice list of mods...very cool stuff, for sure.
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: shreveportSS on July 20, 2012, 05:25:50 PM
I have not ridden a Concours set up like yours, but I cannot even fathom that the Concours could have more response than the Ninja.  No need talking about how much torque there is because that is only a part of it.  Lighter weight and gearing make up a huge amount of why the Ninja is more responsive.  I have not tried it, but I would bet money that in a 60mph roll on, my Ninja (even stock) would pull away from the Concours in sixth gear even if I downshifted the Concours to fourth.  The guy I ride with agrees.   I would not think that any mods to the Concours short of a turbo would make up the difference. 

It's a nice conversation to have between the two bikes though, isn't it  :chugbeer:
Ninja 1000 1/4 mile time 10.81
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/156/11124/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Kawasaki-Ninja-1000-Comparison.aspx (http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/156/11124/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Kawasaki-Ninja-1000-Comparison.aspx)

THis one says 11.3  ???
http://www.sportrider.com/performance_numbers/146_motorcycle_performance_numbers/kawasaki.html (http://www.sportrider.com/performance_numbers/146_motorcycle_performance_numbers/kawasaki.html)

Seems most cycle magazines test the Connie around 10.78
Title: Re: Ninja 1000
Post by: rcannon409 on July 21, 2012, 04:17:16 PM
I'm not sure about overall SPEED between the two bikes.  Compared to the Ninja, the c14 throttle cable feels like its made of rubber...literally, it does.  The response is there, just  a little muted.

The Ninja feels like a well tuned two stroke, in comparison.  Also, where the c14 pulls smooth (but hard)  the Ninja pulls hard down low, then goes into warp speed at 6000. Its very fun to play with. 

The gear ratios are very different as well.  On the c14 a person can be on the freeway, 65 mph, and realize your in 4th gear. That wont happen on the Ninja as the ratios are lower, and much closer together.

I know the bikes get compared a lot, and I think thats because the Ninja does not fit well into any class.  Its not a full on supersport, yet not exactly a sport tourer either.  The c14 is a tourer in overall size, yet has a sporty feel about it that does not fit the touring category.