Kawasaki Concours Forum
Riding => It's not a Concours - other Bikes => Topic started by: stevewfl on July 28, 2011, 11:12:32 PM
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But the new Kawi 1000cc sport-tourer won Motorcyclist 2011 "Bike of the Year" award!
Best Sportbike: Aprilia RSV4 Factory APRC SE
Best Naked Bike: Triumph Speed Triple
Best Sport Touring Bike: BMW K1600GT (honorable 2nd mentioned for Concours14)
Best Adventure Bike: Triumph Tiger 800 XC
Best Dream Bike: Erik Buell Racing 1190RS
Best Bang For The Buck Bike: Honda CBR250R
Best Cruiser Bike: Ducati Diavel
BEst Dirt Bike: KTM 350 SX-F
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BMW 1600GT is about $4000+ more! We are not comparing apple to apple! Just imagine putting another $4k into C14...
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BMW 1600GT is about $4000+ more! We are not comparing apple to apple! Just imagine putting another $4k into C14...
Or $6k... ;D
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But the new Kawi 1000cc sport-tourer won Motorcyclist 2011 "Bike of the Year" award!
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Those of us that [still] ride a C-10 have known this since, umm, well, 1986 ;)
Rick
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Those of us that [still] ride a C-10 have known this since, umm, well, 1986 ;)
Rick
Had the new 1000 been out, I may be riding one over the C14. Matter of fact, hard not to buy one now! My friend at kawasaki says it accomdates the same panniers as the Versys.
(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/2011-kawasaki-ninja-1000/2011-kawasaki-ninja-1000-5.jpg)
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Or $6k... ;D
Yea that was the honorbale mention, the Kawi is cheaper. But for $6,000 one still could not add a 24 valve straight 6 engine (160 HP with a BRUTAL torque curve), an "adjustable on the fly suspension", adaptive headlight technology that looks into the turns, and a host of other features BMW got right.
I think they have the winning bike for 2011, and sure it costs more to have more.
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Just checked the MSRP of the K1600GT here in Canada. It is $8100 more than what I paid for my 2011 C14. For $8100 I could probably find a nice 08 or 09 C14 for a backup bike! The only thing it has that I wish my C14 had is cruise control. I don't doubt that its a fine motorcycle but... too much money!
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Just checked the MSRP of the K1600GT here in Canada. It is $8100 more than what I paid for my 2011 C14. For $8100 I could probably find a nice 08 or 09 C14 for a backup bike! The only thing it has that I wish my C14 had is cruise control. I don't doubt that its a fine motorcycle but... too much money!
A K1600 GT costs 20000€ in Germany. The list price of a 1400GTR is 17500€, but nobody is paying that. One can get a Kawa from last year for 15000€. I got my '08 in march '09 (in the worst of the crisis) for 12000€. I looked at the K1300 GT back then and BMW wouldn't give me a cent as a discount.
Steve, I'm not sure you drove this bike. I did, several times, and also the GTL. Yes, the GT is more sporty, but in a touring context. It doesn't have the capabilities of the C14 in the sport area, as I experienced myself last weekend in the Dolomites in the north of Italy. We were 35 bikes, 30 of which were BMW, among which 2 GTs and 1 GTL. They AREN'T sport bikes in any sense of the term. The GT as the pegs some mm higher and the grips and some mm forward. The engine torque makes up for a lot of the extra weight, but it doesn't handle like a Kawasaki 1400GTR. Believe me. Or not. Go try one ;)
In my personal experience, the BMW will take you to your hotel in the middle of the Alps in more comfort, but you'll get there and before hitting the curves you'll want another bike. With the Kawasaki, you have both in one. Yes, it's a bit too heavy and not that comfortable, but you loose in one area much, much less than what you get in the other one. For an average driver like me, it can hit the twisties much harder than I can, and it can take me further in a tour than what I'm willing to per day. In Germany, then, to replace the 15000€ Kawasaki, you need a 22000€ BMW GT (the +2k are for the goodies) and a 12000€ Ninja of some sort. And a way to get both and switch back and forth according to your mood. Try that.
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The lack of BMW dealer support in my area, along with the higher cost of maintenance pretty much sealed BMW out of my bike selection.
The FJR felt a bit too cramped, the Honda overpriced for a unchanged design, and the Triumph suffered the same dealer support problem of the BMW.
The Concours was my MOTY award winner.
-darrell
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Yea that was the honorbale mention, the Kawi is cheaper. But for $6,000 one still could not add a 24 valve straight 6 engine (160 HP with a BRUTAL torque curve), an "adjustable on the fly suspension", adaptive headlight technology that looks into the turns, and a host of other features BMW got right.
I think they have the winning bike for 2011, and sure it costs more to have more.
Well I have to agree with you, taken literally, the BMW is a 'better' bike. I suppose. I guess it's all in what you are looking for, and to be honest, price has to be a consideration at some point, else where would you draw a line? And it's all perspective too. $13K vs $20K is a big difference to most, but to some, eh, its 'just' 7 grand. To me these awards are like awarding who has the best anything. It's purely a subjective exercise.
BTW, my C14 has been awarded "Best C14 of all the C14's ever built" for all time. Sorry, it's official guys.
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$4K ??? $6K ???
Not sure how you folks are doing your math but a brand new C-14 can be had for just under $12.5K with another $600 in dealer fees. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165)
A new BMW K1600GT is $25K at Max's BMW and I do not think that is the 'out the door' price including destination charges. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165)
But even if that is the <real> end price, it is at least $12,000 more than a new C-14. Just about twice the price of two C-14s. Now that new BMW might be a spiffy bike but it is simply not in the same price catagory as a C-14.
Brian
BMW 1600GT is about $4000+ more! We are not comparing apple to apple! Just imagine putting another $4k into C14...
Or $6k... ;D
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I think the GTL is around $25,000 but isn't the GT closer to $20,000? Still a big difference in price but I don't think the GT is double the price of a C14.
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$4K ??? $6K ???
Not sure how you folks are doing your math but a brand new C-14 can be had for just under $12.5K with another $600 in dealer fees. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165)
A new BMW K1600GT is $25K at Max's BMW and I do not think that is the 'out the door' price including destination charges. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Kawasaki-ZG-1400-CBF-ZG1400-CONCORSE-14-ANTI-LOCK-BRAKES-NEW-2011-KAWASAKI-CONCOURS-14-ABS-ZG1400-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem415bedc178QQitemZ280715182456QQptZUSQ5fmotorcycles#ht_5858wt_1165)
But even if that is the <real> end price, it is at least $12,000 more than a new C-14. Just about twice the price of two C-14s. Now that new BMW might be a spiffy bike but it is simply not in the same price catagory as a C-14.
Brian
Brian,
My $6k number was what I've put into farkles on mine so far. It was in response to Irule's comment regarding putting another $4k into a C14...
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OK, I didn't get that meaning. I read this:
BMW 1600GT is about $4000+ more! We are not comparing apple to apple! Just imagine putting another $4k into C14...
and thought you were responding to the reference to the Bimmer costing about $4K + more.
Brian
Brian,
My $6k number was what I've put into farkles on mine so far. It was in response to Irule's comment regarding putting another $4k into a C14...
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Max BMW is selling the GT for just over $25K, and the GTL for just under $26.5K. My local dealer has quoted me a price of just over $27K for a GTL although that was an 'off the cuff' price, not a firm price for a specific bike with specific options.
You can easily take a look at Max's web site which includes prices here: http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/machine/machine.aspx (http://www.maxbmwmotorcycles.com/machine/machine.aspx) Max is competitive and a huge BMW motorcycle dealer (going by the number of bikes sold, not the physical size of the dealership).
I do not believe you could purchase a new BMW 1600 for even close to $20,000 unless you brought two wolves and a pistol.... ;)
Brian
I think the GTL is around $25,000 but isn't the GT closer to $20,000? Still a big difference in price but I don't think the GT is double the price of a C14.
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I stand corrected, I thought the base price for the GT was between 20 and $21,000. I guess most dealer are probably jacking the price up since people keep buying them.
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It isn't the dealers, it is the factory. One method BMW uses to alter the price is to attach a list of options to the bike. This alters the price quite substantially between "list" and actual costs. The K1300GT had a list price of something like $20K but you would not find one for anywhere near that price as all models had at least some options present and some had all options. It is of course common practice on all autos but it is not common on motorcycles outside of BMWs.
It makes it tough to compare prices because while Japanese bikes start at MSRP and work their way down, BMWs start at 'list' price and work their way up.
Brian
I stand corrected, I thought the base price for the GT was between 20 and $21,000. I guess most dealer are probably jacking the price up since people keep buying them.
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I do not believe you could purchase a new BMW 1600 for even close to $20,000 unless you brought two wolves and a pistol.... ;)
Brian
Actually, I think all you can do right now is pay a sizable pile of money to stand in line and wait for one.
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Max's is showing quite a few in stock, in choice of type (GT or GTL). They have them in locations in NH, NY and CT. So you could bring a pile of money in right now and ride one home.... but it would take more than a 'sizable pile', it would take a 'gigantic pile' (technical terms, all in English standard measurement systems).
Brian
Actually, I think all you can do right now is pay a sizable pile of money to stand in line and wait for one.
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Max's is showing quite a few in stock, in choice of type (GT or GTL). They have them in locations in NH, NY and CT. So you could bring a pile of money in right now and ride one home.... but it would take more than a 'sizable pile', it would take a 'gigantic pile' (technical terms, all in English standard measurement systems).
Brian
What would that be in the metric world..................... a $h1t ton?
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Misleading title to this thread IMHO. Comparing a $25K w/ options bike to one that costs $10K less (and can be purchased for thousands less than SRP) is equivalent to saying that a Kobe beef steak is better than a baloney sandwich.
Well duh.
If the Concours didn't exist, few if any of us would be at the BMW dealer placing orders. I can't afford one and even if I could, not so sure I'd want one. No BMW dealer anyplace close by and even if there was, their required maintenance schedule is a major put-off to me.
Any comparison that ignores price is inherently worthless.
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Misleading title to this thread IMHO. Comparing a $25K w/ options bike to one that costs $10K less (and can be purchased for thousands less than SRP) is equivalent to saying that a Kobe beef steak is better than a baloney sandwich.
Well duh.
If the Concours didn't exist, few if any of us would be at the BMW dealer placing orders. I can't afford one and even if I could, not so sure I'd want one. No BMW dealer anyplace close by and even if there was, their required maintenance schedule is a major put-off to me.
Any comparison that ignores price is inherently worthless.
I like baloney... :P
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The only thing it has that I wish my C14 had is cruise control.
That can be fixed for $240 and about 6 hours of work.
http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=64&products_id=369 (http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=64&products_id=369)
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Best bike lists are for idiots. Can anyone here say they ever bought a bike because some douche magazine staffer said it was the best?
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Best bike lists are for idiots. Can anyone here say they ever bought a bike because some douche magazine staffer said it was the best?
Nope, I choose my bikes by playing rock, paper, scissors with my kids. If paper could cover scissors I would be riding a Sportster 883, thank God that didn't happen. ;D
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I hope that any of the major companies could design a new bike that would be better than something they were aiming at. If not, something would be wrong. I dont quite understand the need for a 6 cylinder anymore than I did when the original Honda cbx was released.
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Best bike lists are for idiots. Can anyone here say they ever bought a bike because some douche magazine staffer said it was the best?
Great point! If money was no objects, i will have from scooters to can-am. I don't give a hola hoop to what it is.
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Well, maybe a $h1t <metric> ton. The term ton is an English standard measurement based on pounds. ;D
But I am sure that if you went to a foreign country and slipped a credit card across the counter while pointing to a K1600GT, the person on the other side would quickly do the calculation for you. At no additional charge.... ;)
Brian
What would that be in the metric world..................... a $h1t ton?
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Nope, I choose my bikes by playing rock, paper, scissors with my kids. If paper could cover scissors I would be riding a Sportster 883, thank God that didn't happen. ;D
Glad it aint just me! ;)
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I was talking to a fellow rider last week. He was telling me that some of the new BMW bikes are having fuel sensor issues. The guys in the cooler climes aren't seeing the issue, but down south (Florida, etc.) the high heat along with the high humidity are wreaking havoc with the EFI computers, so a lot of bikes are needing to go into the shop. From what he told me, the sensor/programming that is causing the issue doesn't have a good fix yet.
Doing a quick google search turned up this thread:
http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62685 (http://www.bmwlt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62685)
I don't know if the newest bikes have this issue.
So it sounds like there is a workaround. Still, you'd expect better from the BMW engineers, unless of course their goal is to keep the BMW bike shops busy...
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Had the new 1000 been out, I may be riding one over the C14. Matter of fact, hard not to buy one now! My friend at kawasaki says it accomdates the same panniers as the Versys.
(http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/wp-content/gallery/2011-kawasaki-ninja-1000/2011-kawasaki-ninja-1000-5.jpg)
I rode one of these at a Kawasaki Ticket To Ride event. While it is a torque monster (I REALLY enjoyed the amount of torque available throughout it's power band), it has some issues. Namely, that since it is so light, bumps and rough roads tend to be a bigger issue than on the C14 or C10, they telegraph right through the suspension to the rider. Also, it has virtually no wind protection, so you will get soaked in the rain. Finally, it felt like riding a 10 speed upright, and I felt like that rider position would be fatiguing on longer rides. The C-10/C-14 riding position is much more comfortable IMHO.
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My GT makes for a great ride on the road to He11...Michigan that is. It's the ride, not the destination!
(http://photos.imageevent.com/swilner/newbmwr1200rt/websize/IMG_0266.JPG)