Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Gabriel on October 27, 2018, 11:09:09 AM
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I had a local locksmith make me a passive fob, cost was about 60/65 bucks total.
Here is a picture of the key, and a YouTube video of it working.
Owners name is Wayne;
A-Anykind of Lock & Safe - (281) 338-9100
421 East Nasa Road 1, Webster, TX 77598
http://www.anykindlockandsafe.com/ (http://www.anykindlockandsafe.com/)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RVK2VgROXA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5RVK2VgROXA)
(https://i.imgur.com/9iDqqfq.jpg)
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I can do that with an Oreo cookie, if the fob's in my pocket.
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Good information and this is going to be a CLONE of the existing passive (i.e. "credit card") FOB. This "HOND 31P" key blank has a cloneable TPX3 transponder in it which is the same type of transponder used in the Concours.
By the way, if you are one of those C14 owners who have ONLY the active FOB, keep in mind that this also contains a passive, or KEY IMMOBILIZER, function and this part could be "cloned" using this same technique and keep you from the unfortunate scenario where you have NO keys if you lose your FOB. It seems there have been a couple of those recently.
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Good information and this is going to be a CLONE of the existing passive (i.e. "credit card") FOB. This "HOND 31P" key blank has a cloneable TPX3 transponder in it which is the same type of transponder used in the Concours.
By the way, if you are one of those C14 owners who have ONLY the active FOB, keep in mind that this also contains a passive, or KEY IMMOBILIZER, function and this part could be "cloned" using this same technique and keep you from the unfortunate scenario where you have NO keys if you lose your FOB. It seems there have been a couple of those recently.
He cloned the passive RFID chip in my only "active" fob and it's a XXX4 version of something I don't exactly remember but he said it was old technology.
He also said he thinks he can clone the active fob, I'm going to check back next week to see. Now that would be great to make an exact clone.
This guy has thousands of dollars worth of equipment and software, of which I saw him use at least three readers when doing this.
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He probably cannot clone the active FOB. It's a proprietary Kawasaki system and, to my knowledge, it not used in any other vehicle.
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He opened the fob and named every component on the circuit board. he said there is nothing special about it.
I will find out soon.
One advantage to cloning is that it won't use space in the memory of the keepass system.
It would probably cost less than 100 bucks if he can do it, I asked...
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I would like to see how this pans out... :popcorn:
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I would like to see how this pans out... :popcorn:
I will post back here.
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Please do. Sounds like a money maker if he's able to do it for a reasonable cost.
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after spending prtetty much the last month, explaining and researching, and supplying how "chips" can be cloned, the chip sets, the equipment, and the Kawasaki system (developed by Mitsubishi...propriatary to Kawasaki)...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23739.msg296683#msg296683 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23739.msg296683#msg296683)
all I can say is:
Yes, passive chips can be cloned.
Active FOBS CANNOT, that is why each one has a "slot" in the program, and each is delivered sending a different "code sequence"...
You must have a paired, fob, either active, or passive, to turn ignition "ON", to even begin programming anything to the bike.
so, programming an ACTIVE FOB, in a CLONE scenario, is not an option... because you CAN'T CLONE the FOB... i.e., you can't "program" the FOB.... just the receiver...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vnVF1xT5m1U/UVMNyoaJHUI/AAAAAAAAAPc/asZT2jUSCOM/s1600/Flying_Pigs.jpg)
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after spending prtetty much the last month, explaining and researching, and supplying how "chips" can be cloned, the chip sets, the equipment, and the Kawasaki system (developed by Mitsubishi...propriatary to Kawasaki)...
all I can say is:
Yes, passive chips can be cloned.
Active FOBS CANNOT, that is why each one has a "slot" in the program, and each is delivered sending a different "code sequence"...
You must have a paired, fob, either active, or passive, to turn ignition "ON", to even begin programming anything to the bike.
so, programming an ACTIVE FOB, in a CLONE scenario, is not an option... because you CAN'T CLONE the FOB... i.e., you can't "program" the FOB.... just the receiver...
Well this is true that the control unit has to programed to the fob which means if you can duplicate the fob it's a home run.
This locksmith tells me that these devices do not communicate back and forth, that the fob sends a signal that the control unit can relate to. (ad-libbed)
I will find out for sure
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Well this is true that the control unit has to programed to the fob which means if you can duplicate the fob it's a home run.
This locksmith tells me that these devices do not communicate back and forth, that the fob sends a signal that the control unit can relate to. (ad-libbed)
I will find out for sure
I pretty much understand that, that's why I spent so much time researching this, and providing it....
now, even though I explained exactly what you just said... go back and read what you said the locksmith told you.....
, just to make it simple.... the part about the FOB 'SENDS' a signal, but doesn't "RECEIVE' a signal... it's a one way flow... so this is why I state, you can't program the FOB.... it does not receive a signal. nor can it be sent a signal to 'reprogram it' to anything... it's a stored code, and cannot be 'changed' like a blank chip.... once that code is burned in, it is the only contents occupying the space, and cannot be changed...or written over.
hey, please take the time, and supply the locksmith, I'd suggest you buy a new Active fob tho, and have it paired, along with the RFID chip, to your bike, By someone with a KDS3 device.... prior to letting him "experiment" with your active FOB....... simply because he has no liabilities, as it's not his bike... and if he 'tries' to crack the mystery of the signal generation, and can actually pull the data, he needs to send that data to another device, an active device, that does what the Kaw Active FOB does... sends a signal... and lotsa 'awwwshytzz' can occur...
the secure protocols developed for this system have been in place for 10+ years, the first person that even says 'oh, that's old tech, I can do that', ought to be working for Kaw, for 4x his yearly salary... if he is that smart.
let us know how it pans out. I am seriously curious, as I try to be on top of this tech thing...
and thanks for being our crash test volunteer..
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after spending prtetty much the last month, explaining and researching, and supplying how "chips" can be cloned, the chip sets, the equipment, and the Kawasaki system (developed by Mitsubishi...propriatary to Kawasaki)...
http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23739.msg296683#msg296683 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=23739.msg296683#msg296683)
all I can say is:
Yes, passive chips can be cloned.
Active FOBS CANNOT, that is why each one has a "slot" in the program, and each is delivered sending a different "code sequence"...
You must have a paired, fob, either active, or passive, to turn ignition "ON", to even begin programming anything to the bike.
so, programming an ACTIVE FOB, in a CLONE scenario, is not an option... because you CAN'T CLONE the FOB... i.e., you can't "program" the FOB.... just the receiver...
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vnVF1xT5m1U/UVMNyoaJHUI/AAAAAAAAAPc/asZT2jUSCOM/s1600/Flying_Pigs.jpg)
I really think people should go back to basics, and read the manual before posting sometimes. The fob can be used as a passive fob when the battery is dead. Just to test this before I posted, I read the manual, and then removed the battery, and used it to start the bike. It activated the system just fine and I was able to turn the key and start the bike.
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I really think people should go back to basics, and read the manual before posting sometimes. The fob can be used as a passive fob when the battery is dead. Just to test this before I posted, I read the manual, and then removed the battery, and used it to start the bike. It activated the system just fine and I was able to turn the key and start the bike.
yep... that works....
reading all the reponses in a post, before posting... does a lot also, as I never disputed the passive portion of an active fob...(if it was also programmed, like when you buy a NEW active fob, and pair it to the system, and you also have to pair the passive chip, in the new fob also... it's part of the KDS process...)
you would have to read the KDS3 manual to understand that process... so I can cut people slack, as most don't have that book...
but saying that, I am waiting to see if a new ACTIVE fob, can be re-programmed.. I know it can't, but still waiting...for that reply...
Oh, passive chip works, but if you loose the Active fob, that has the chip for the passive immobilizer, it doesn't matter if the battery is in or out... because it was LOST.......
I'll listen to the song, and watch the pigs fly until I hear an active FOB can be re-programmed/cloned to an existing active fob...
http://youtu.be/QWLBtMz5OuY (http://youtu.be/QWLBtMz5OuY)
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This locksmith tells me that these devices do not communicate back and forth
Actually not true at all and it's easy to demonstrate with a 915 MHz radio receiver. When you press the stove knob the bike emits a "is any FOB around" message. If a FOB is in range it says "hey, I'm here". Then the KiPass ECU on the bike sends a message that the FOB then encrypts using it's ID, this is checked by the bike and if it's a correctly formed reply, the bike will unlock.
By the way, the Kawasaki documentation also describes this in somewhat general terms.
Why can't you clone the active FOB? Because it has a "secret" that the locksmith can't determine. That secret is the ID that is unique to that FOB and if you purchased a new one will be printed on the bag it came in. That ID cannot be recovered by any means that anyone has determined to date.
While it's not fully documented, my theory is that the FOB hashes (using a cryptographic hash) the message sent from the ECU using its ID, which the ECU also knows, and so the reply from the FOB can be validated since only a FOB that knows that ID can reply properly.
But if he's willing to try, I'd say go for it!
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I agree, let him try it...
as for the "splaination..."
pressing knob with fob in pocket, signals Kipass to querry available signals, and that ECU sends them to main ECU, which either recognizes, or doesn't (fob not paired), and sends signal (via hard wires) back to Kipass in lockset to say "ok, continue" or "nope"... it never sends back to the FOB.
nor does it continue to querry the fob, even tho it's (the fob) continually broadcasting.
So I think what you are seeing, as the Kipass ECU signal you pick up on the radio receiver, is just the fact it is being "turned on, to read available signals.." not the actual transmission of any signals other than that...
it's like "turning on the OPEN" sign on a store window... :rotflmao: and not unlocking the door until someone shows you the money...
when messing with the radio thing, what happens if no fob is near, and you press the stove knob? do you get a 'ping'?
stick a passive immobilizer chip next to the lock, press the key, and see what the "radio receiver" shows you then, with no Active fob within range... and tell us if there is a difference in what shows on the radio receiver, compared to normal Active fob activation....
I'm thinking you will see the same "ping".
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Yeah it would help if you read the whole thread (now i understand the popcorn)
The locksmith is not going to use a factory fob!
The locksmith stated that this fob (the oem fob) does not communicate back and forth to the control unit.
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Yeah it would help if you read the whole thread (now i understand the popcorn)
The locksmith is not going to use a factory fob!
The locksmith stated that this fob (the oem fob) does not communicate back and forth to the control unit.
if that was aimed towards me, show me where you mentioned any of that.
i.e. what is he going to program....?
if not aimed towards me, I'm fine with that.
anyway, best of luck, tell us all the outcome, and what he did, and used.
over and out. :popcorn:
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The FOB does not actively send out any signals until it "hears" the KiPass ECU. That happens under two scenarios:
1) User presses the stove knob.
2) The bike was started using the FOB and the bike is underway. (This checks every so often for the FOB and displays a warning that the FOB is missing if it doesn't get a reply.)
If you sit a radio next to the FOB without doing anything with the bike you will never hear it "chirp". If you press the stove knob with no FOB around, you'll hear the bike ping several times before it activates the Key Immobilizer reader (i.e. the passive FOB reader). If a FOB is in the area there is additional traffic as the negotiation happens. The entire process takes much less than 1 sec.
So regardless of preconceived notions about what it does, it's quite easy to examine its behavior.
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......even tho it's (the fob) continually broadcasting.
Do you have a documented source (document title with page numbers etc.) for this info???
I find it hard to believe that the fob is constantly ("continually") broadcasting. I've heard this several times from different posts going back to the days where someone said that if you keep your FOB on the bike you need to wrap it up in aluminum foil etc.....I left my FOB on the bike without foil or battery life effect for months. I just don't think it does that, (either thing: continually broadcasts; or run down it's coin battery if left near the bike.) but I'll believe it if a Kawasaki or Mitsubishi document says so.
edit:The FOB does not actively send out any signals until it "hears" the KiPass ECU. That happens under two scenarios:
1) User presses the stove knob.
2) The bike was started using the FOB and the bike is underway. (This checks every so often for the FOB and displays a warning that the FOB is missing if it doesn't get a reply.)
If you sit a radio next to the FOB without doing anything with the bike you will never hear it "chirp". If you press the stove knob with no FOB around, you'll hear the bike ping several times before it activates the Key Immobilizer reader (i.e. the passive FOB reader). If a FOB is in the area there is additional traffic as the negotiation happens. The entire process takes much less than 1 sec.
So regardless of preconceived notions about what it does, it's quite easy to examine its behavior.
Ok I was typing slower than you, but I'm in agreement. However, MOB types it with such authority ...that I was hoping he had some documentation to back it up.
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I didn't say the FOB is constantly broadcasting. In fact I said the opposite.
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I have faith in this locksmith, he processed that passive key first time with no mistakes.
One of his readers suggested a key that he said was expensive so he used another reader to get an alternative which is what I have.
He did not say definitively that he could clone my active fob, he just said he did not see why not.
I think getting a suitable fob for this is why he wanted a few days.
One thing he was clear about and that is there is nothing special about this fob, he said it was dated technology.
This shop has been in the same place for 25 years catering to an upscale client area (NASA) so I'm sure he has seen it all.
I think he said he paid 7K just for the software to do this and gets updates often.
I don't know one way or the other but the two previous locksmiths said if he can't do it it can't be done...
It would be nice to have a spare fob for under 100 bucks! I wish whoever it was at Kawasaki that approved this system would wake up in the morning with every lost FOB up his back side...
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I didn't say the FOB is constantly broadcasting. In fact I said the opposite.
Yeah I know, I was agreeing with you. In the first part I was referring to MOB but I was typing while you were posting so I thought in my "edit" I was making it clearer...guess not. :(
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :cool:
is it broadcasting after a signal invokes it, or isn't it...
the handheld reciever is a hammer simplistic tool for saying one way or another..
if a tree falls in the forest, and no body hears it, it still made a sound...
https://www.elprocus.com/different-types-of-modulation-techniques-in-communication-systems/ (https://www.elprocus.com/different-types-of-modulation-techniques-in-communication-systems/)
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Just thinking out loud here..... Let's not 'stifle' someone because they are willing to experiment with the bike against all odds. Let's give the OP a chance to see what his locksmith can do. I'm interested in this from a purely scientific viewpoint and I'm not going to lock this thread. I'll just start removing posts and that won't make me happy at all.
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Just thinking out loud here..... Let's not 'stifle' someone because they are willing to experiment with the bike against all odds. Let's give the OP a chance to see what his locksmith can do. I'm interested in this from a purely scientific viewpoint and I'm not going to lock this thread. I'll just start removing posts and that won't make me happy at all.
Good, because I will post back here everything (in detail) that I find. I think this is a very important topic for all of us for all the reasons we already know.
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yep... that works....
Oh, passive chip works, but if you loose the Active fob, that has the chip for the passive immobilizer, it doesn't matter if the battery is in or out... because it was LOST.......
http://youtu.be/QWLBtMz5OuY (http://youtu.be/QWLBtMz5OuY)
:rotflmao: Of course, but you can send the fob in and have it cloned. I did read everything, but just happened to key on the assertion that an active fob can't be cloned, still naively dreaming we were still on topic, and forgetting it strayed into area 51 territory . I was commenting based on the fact the fob can be used to clone a new passive chip. I see that you were commenting on the paranoia regarding someone cloning the fob somewhere out in the open for nefarious reason. Carry on.
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Right Marty, the fob does not continuously broadcast. It only sends out a signal when it receives a signal from the KiPass ECU on the bike. This occurs when the main ignition switch is pressed down and then at a couple (maybe three?) distinct times during the ride: when the bike passes 20 kph in speed, when the bike is shifted into 6th and there may be one more time. Continuous broadcasting by the fob would quickly kill the battery and make it a useless system. As an aside, this is why the KiPass ECU does not 'know' if or when the fob was lost BTW.
As to cloning the RF fob, no reason why that cannot be done- provided the encryption does not get in the way. But as far as what the OP laid out, that can be done. It would take some RF equipment and then signal analysis but both are far more available today, at reasonable prices, than back in, say, the '80's. It would have to work like this: Cloning machine sends out a 'ping' for the fob. The fob responds with its code. Cloning machine reads said code and then programs a similar (but not same brand) RF device to duplicate the same code the fob sent out in the first place. In fact, not only is it possible, it is quite likely such 'cloning' machines are showing up these days with so many remote authorization devices in use world- wide.
The only fall- down to the process would be as I already mentioned, the built in encryption system (Mitsubishi's MISTY in our case). The most simple method of doing this is with a simple algorithm in both units (KiPass ECU and fob): so as a very simple example, the ECU sends out the number 6. The fob gets this number and puts it through the algorithm, which might be to square the original number, then divide by three, then multiply it by 7 and add 32 and subtract 14. Very simple stuff- until one is on the outside, looking in and trying to reverse engineer that algorithm.
Brian
Do you have a documented source (document title with page numbers etc.) for this info???
I find it hard to believe that the fob is constantly ("continually") broadcasting. I've heard this several times from different posts going back to the days where someone said that if you keep your FOB on the bike you need to wrap it up in aluminum foil etc.....I left my FOB on the bike without foil or battery life effect for months. I just don't think it does that, (either thing: continually broadcasts; or run down it's coin battery if left near the bike.) but I'll believe it if a Kawasaki or Mitsubishi document says so.
edit: Ok I was typing slower than you, but I'm in agreement. However, MOB types it with such authority ...that I was hoping he had some documentation to back it up.
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:popcorn: :popcorn: :cool:
is it broadcasting after a signal invokes it, or isn't it...
the handheld reciever is a hammer simplistic tool for saying one way or another..
if a tree falls in the forest, and no body hears it, it still made a sound...
https://www.elprocus.com/different-types-of-modulation-techniques-in-communication-systems/ (https://www.elprocus.com/different-types-of-modulation-techniques-in-communication-systems/)
So no official documentation then, just typing out the a.. --> .....even tho it's (the fob) continually broadcasting.
-------------------------------------------------------------
***************************************
The only fall- down to the process would be as I already mentioned, the built in encryption system (Mitsubishi's MISTY in our case). The most simple method of doing this is with a simple algorithm in both units (KiPass ECU and fob): so as a very simple example, the ECU sends out the number 6. The fob gets this number and puts it through the algorithm, which might be to square the original number, then divide by three, then multiply it by 7 and add 32 and subtract 14. Very simple stuff- until one is on the outside, looking in and trying to reverse engineer that algorithm.
As nice as it would be as a legal owner to be able to get an active FOB at a more reasonable price, I truly hope that an encryption algorithm is involved so that my bike if stolen just becomes a bunch of spare parts for sale and not a viable cheap vehicle for someone else. I know, they would have to follow me as I went through 20 kph, or be nearby with a code interceptor when I started the bike to catch the signal and then have access to the bike to steal it. Still, it would be reassuring to know that even then it couldn't be done. Now these bikes are getting cheaper, but in 25 years my son is going to have a classic on his hands and the value will be much higher than it is now, and I want him to still have an almost un-steal-able bike. (last sentence was tongue in cheek wishful thinking)
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That would the the downfall of the cloning idea Marty. The example I gave you was far too simple to even be considered of use; in practice, usually part of the algorithm is transmitted along with the code that very algorithm, as part of the larger algorithm built into the devices, making the difficulty of reverse engineering any working system basically impossible. It has been stated that to break modern digital codes would take a supercomputer approximately one year per bit of encryption and MISTY uses either 128 or 140 bit encryption (I cannot remember which). Just my opinion but I think your son's inheritance is very safe..... provided YOU do not mash it in any way having nothing whatsoever to do with KiPass. :-)
As far as theft goes, I do not see how being able to clone an RF fob really makes that any easier. If someone were going to steal and then clone your fob, why not just skip the cloning and use the OEM fob to steal the bike?
As to picking up the transmitted code from a fob on your person, I just do not see how that is even remotely likely, if even possible. Surely you would notice someone standing w/in 5 feet of you, holding a suitcase with a whip antenna on it before you started the bike, right? And as far as following you and picking up the code, again, if ANYTHING was w/in 5 feet of you while riding, I suspect collision would be the far bigger worry.
But the person who brought this up was polite, not arrogant or dismissive of the system or anything else so I try to respond in kind by not attacking or belittling him (her?) and instead just waiting to see what s/he comes back with once s/he has more information. Not sure just when, but this thread did take an unscheduled turn into Obnoxiousville somehow.....
Brian
<snip>
As nice as it would be as a legal owner to be able to get an active FOB at a more reasonable price, I truly hope that an encryption algorithm is involved so that my bike if stolen just becomes a bunch of spare parts for sale and not a viable cheap vehicle for someone else. I know, they would have to follow me as I went through 20 kph, or be nearby with a code interceptor when I started the bike to catch the signal and then have access to the bike to steal it. Still, it would be reassuring to know that even then it couldn't be done. Now these bikes are getting cheaper, but in 25 years my son is going to have a classic on his hands and the value will be much higher than it is now, and I want him to still have an almost un-steal-able bike. (last sentence was tongue in cheek wishful thinking)
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So no official documentation then, just typing out the a.. --> -------------------------------------------------------------
I think you missed the tongue in cheek aimed remark I made about "continuous broadcasting" that was made as a response to Gabe's locksmith's description..
and took it as "my words"... which was not my intent,
Well this is true that the control unit has to programed to the fob which means if you can duplicate the fob it's a home run.
This locksmith tells me that these devices do not communicate back and forth, that the fob sends a signal that the control unit can relate to. (ad-libbed)
I will find out for sure
If you felt any of what I said was "talking out my butt", so be it.
I do have a bit of desire to see what transpires, and didn't mean to be obnoxious about it... so apologies for any humor injections.
I also know a bit about the system, which is why is exactly why I asked about the "ping" when using the Passive chip part of the FOB..held next to the switch..and the key is pressed...
I also find the "ping", which I call a "query" signal, probably would not be the same as a "programming protocol" type, which could be possibly used for re-programming the code within an Active FOB.
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As with all robust cryptographic methods, knowing the algorithm, in this case MISTY, does you no good. In fact here is a document with the details:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2994 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2994)
BTW, MISTY-1 was cracked in 2015:
https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/746.pdf (https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/746.pdf)
So have at it!
But the thing that keeps it secure is the "secret". In our case the secret, as I mentioned earlier, is the FOB ID. That is NOT on the FOB itself, it is NOT shown in the KDS3 system.
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As with all robust cryptographic methods, knowing the algorithm, in this case MISTY, does you no good. In fact here is a document with the details:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2994 (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2994)
BTW, MISTY-1 was cracked in 2015:
https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/746.pdf (https://eprint.iacr.org/2015/746.pdf)
So have at it!
But the thing that keeps it secure is the "secret". In our case the secret, as I mentioned earlier, is the FOB ID. That is NOT on the FOB itself, it is NOT shown in the KDS3 system.
ouch...
trying to read the Misty stuff had me thinking the room was spinning... and then caused extreme pain
now...
(https://pics.me.me/my-brain-hurts-5222306.png)
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :yikes:
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I think you missed the tongue in cheek aimed remark I made about "continuous broadcasting" that was made as a response to Gabe's locksmith's description..
and took it as "my words"... which was not my intent, If you felt any of what I said was "talking out my butt", so be it.
Well OK, I guess I'm just to stupid to tell when you tongue is in your cheek or when you're typing from somewhere deep and scary. I couldn't find anywhere Gab said his locksmith said it was "continuously broadcasting" but then maybe I don't read so well. So....just disregard what I said earlier because it was all tongue in cheek too. :-\
Good luck Gab', and let us know how it goes.
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I sold my c10 last year. Been riding a Yamaha Raider for 5 years or so but still like the c14 and may get one at some point so I ck these forums often so I dont get too far out of touch.
I say great to the guy and locksmith for trying to figure something out.
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Let us know how this goes, I need a reason to go across town.
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I will call him on Friday, that gives him a week...
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I called the locksmith and he has not heard back from his sources, I told him I will call again on Tuesday
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I decided to give it a shot making a key for my 2018 C14. I am a locksmith and have been for 37 years. Stopped doing automotive stuff long ago, so I had to have the young guys help me out.
I read my passive fob with the key reader. It told me to use a TPX5 glass chip. We wrote the chip and it works exactly like my passive fob. Then I ordered a JMA TPOOKAW-9.P1 key blank without transponder chip. My bike uses a "B" key. I cut the key from my existing passive fob and inserted the chip.
I now have a key that operates my bags and gas cap and will also start the bike with the stove knob. It will not replace the stove knob as the bike's antenna isn't big enough to read the chip that far away.
I took a picture of all the bits and pieces. If anyone wants to post it up, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.
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Here's the pic.
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I decided to give it a shot making a key for my 2018 C14. I am a locksmith and have been for 37 years. Stopped doing automotive stuff long ago, so I had to have the young guys help me out.
I read my passive fob with the key reader. It told me to use a TPX5 glass chip. We wrote the chip and it works exactly like my passive fob. Then I ordered a JMA TPOOKAW-9.P1 key blank without transponder chip. My bike uses a "B" key. I cut the key from my existing passive fob and inserted the chip.
I now have a key that operates my bags and gas cap and will also start the bike with the stove knob. It will not replace the stove knob as the bike's antenna isn't big enough to read the chip that far away.
I took a picture of all the bits and pieces. If anyone wants to post it up, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.
So you can press the stove knob down and the bike can communicate with the key as you are sitting on the bike without using the rf backup?
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So you can press the stove knob down and the bike can communicate with the key as you are sitting on the bike without using the rf backup?
No, read his post again.
I decided to give it a shot making a key for my 2018 C14. I am a locksmith and have been for 37 years. Stopped doing automotive stuff long ago, so I had to have the young guys help me out.
I read my passive fob with the key reader. It told me to use a TPX5 glass chip. We wrote the chip and it works exactly like my passive fob. Then I ordered a JMA TPOOKAW-9.P1 key blank without transponder chip. My bike uses a "B" key. I cut the key from my existing passive fob and inserted the chip.
I now have a key that operates my bags and gas cap and will also start the bike with the stove knob. It will not replace the stove knob as the bike's antenna isn't big enough to read the chip that far away.
I took a picture of all the bits and pieces. If anyone wants to post it up, send me a PM with your email address and I'll forward it to you.
He can use the key to open stuff, and he can use it to get the LCD to light up as he would a passive fob, he can't just leave it in the stove knob position and start the bike, he needs a second key to already be in the stove knob position. It doesn't act as an active FOB.
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I read that but i got terribly confused...which is easy for me to do these days. So in other words, an active FOB replacement has not been accomplished. This is yet another way to use the RFID with a key instead of the credit card or the real FOB.
If I still appear to be confused, let me know.
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to make it simple for you Jim, the effort that he did was fine, the part that needs to be mentioned, is... when doing a clone key chip/key cut, make 2 of them... that way if the stove knob is not there, one key is inserted into the switch, the other passive chip key is placed next to the 'sensor' port, press key down... bike starts... for all other "key" stuff, the extra key is nice... the chipped key reaally is only "used' for the chip function, when placed next to the port... and it MUST be placed there to sense it.. as it's not a "proximity" thing.
I do have a question about this TPX5 chip... the original stuff I dug up, related to the TPX3... which was the first ones successfully cloned...
Here's the pic.
it may be a carry over thru the chips new generations, but it may also require the latest JMA evo chip cloner to clone the TPX5.. food for thought.
I'm ordering some chips and keys now, to make sure... but I'm getting TPX3 chips.
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I love my standard, no fuss keys which can be duplicated for a few bucks.
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I used the TPX5 chip because that is what my programmer recommended.
The way this works is, you put the passive chip in the EVO programmer and press read. After a few seconds it tells you which chip it can clone it to. It gave me a few choices and TPX5 was the first one suggested.
To be clear, in order to start the C14, you would have to hold the head of the key against the ignition antenna (just like the Kawasaki emergency fob). Then press the stove knob so the C14 reads it. When the C14 accepts the chip, turn the bike on as normal.
For my purposes, I did not do this to replace the stove knob/active fob system. I actually LIKE the active fob! When I go on a multi day ride my riding buddy and I swap spare keys JUST IN CASE something happens.
I also do not use the stove knob for anything other than the stove knob. I have always carried a non-chip key in my pocket for operating the luggage and fuel tank. (This may not be the way YOU like to do it, and anyone telling me they like to do it different is welcome to their opinion and not likely to change mine.)
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I also do not use the stove knob for anything other than the stove knob. I have always carried a non-chip key in my pocket for operating the luggage and fuel tank. (This may not be the way YOU like to do it, and anyone telling me they like to do it different is welcome to their opinion and not likely to change mine.)
I never take the stove knob out and I had a spare key made to operate everything else. I'm just wondering why you went through all this to duplicate something that's already there. The FOB has the RFID as well as the credit card. I guess it could be a backup if you lose the FOB and the credit card, though. My FOB never sees the light of day and is attached to a chain (in my pocket) that is looped into my belt so it can't be lost.
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I never take the stove knob out and I had a spare key made to operate everything else. I'm just wondering why you went through all this to duplicate something that's already there. The FOB has the RFID as well as the credit card. I guess it could be a backup if you lose the FOB and the credit card, though. My FOB never sees the light of day and is attached to a chain (in my pocket) that is looped into my belt so it can't be lost.
Like you, I rarely ever remove the knob and use a non-RFID (plain) brass key to open everything. Also like you, I carry the active FOB on my person without ever touching it (in my case, in my zipped jacket pocket). All he is doing is the same thing we are doing- carrying a spare key that he can use to unlock stuff, but it is also a passive RFID key that could be used to start the bike, in the case the FOB is somehow lost (although not sure how that would happen if it were just left "attached" to the person.
I leave my passive fob at home, unless I am on a long trip, in which case I might put that in my bag as an emergency backup. If the price were cheap, it would be convenient to have what acts and looks like a normal key that is also a passive fob- the downside is that such a key (like he had made) has a large/thick head.
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I love my standard, no fuss keys which can be duplicated for a few bucks.
Which is great for the bags and gas cap, but that is it. No modern vehicle (that I know of, at least for cars) actually use non-RFID [plain-old] keys anymore for when it comes to starting the engine.
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To tell you how bad it is....went to a demo days at the Indian dealer some time back and got to ride a Scout. Had to have someone tell me how to start it....they pointed to the key on the side. All the other bikes are keyless. All my vehicles are keyless. Key, what's a key?
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When I go on a longer than 1 day ride, I have the active fob in my pocket. My riding buddy has the passive key in his pocket, and I have a backup in the safe at home.
Perhaps a bit paranoid, but I won’t get stranded. Besides, keys like this cost me nothing. A perk of the job. 8)
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Which is great for the bags and gas cap, but that is it. No modern vehicle (that I know of, at least for cars) actually use non-RFID [plain-old] keys anymore for when it comes to starting the engine.
Actually, many fleet vehicles are sold without chip keys. They do make it into the consumer market, but your are correct.
Chip keys were brought into the automotive world as a way to reduce auto theft AND keep you coming back to the dealer for keys.
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I never take the stove knob out and I had a spare key made to operate everything else. I'm just wondering why you went through all this to duplicate something that's already there. The FOB has the RFID as well as the credit card. I guess it could be a backup if you lose the FOB and the credit card, though. My FOB never sees the light of day and is attached to a chain (in my pocket) that is looped into my belt so it can't be lost.
Well, the simple answer is, I was a Boy Scout. 8)
Reality is, I don’t have a problem with the key head being large. I have it on a ring with the remote fob for my house alarm.
I don’t pay for keys. A perk of my job. I’m the service manager for the largest locksmith company in the province. I’ve worked there 37 years. I don’t get too many arguments about what I do. We also have sister companies in the alarm and alarm monitoring and access control business. I’m pretty well hooked up for this stuff.
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Which is great for the bags and gas cap, but that is it. No modern vehicle (that I know of, at least for cars) actually use non-RFID [plain-old] keys anymore for when it comes to starting the engine.
Doesn't mean it is necessarily a good thing, or that I like them. I hate FOBs. I especially hate the KIPASS system, but I love the bike, so I own it. I would prefer a key. A small RFID chip on a key, not so bad, but a FOB, I hate.
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The locksmith found a fob from his supplier but it's out of stock and more are on the way.
I will call back in a week to get further up dates. Apparently this fob design has multiple applications?
For some reason gmail keeps flagging these post as spam even though I tell it not to?
BTW; The passive key I had made does not have a large head at all...Compared to some I have seen...
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Well, the simple answer is, I was a Boy Scout. 8)
Reality is, I don’t have a problem with the key head being large. I have it on a ring with the remote fob for my house alarm.
I don’t pay for keys. A perk of my job. I’m the service manager for the largest locksmith company in the province. I’ve worked there 37 years. I don’t get too many arguments about what I do. We also have sister companies in the alarm and alarm monitoring and access control business. I’m pretty well hooked up for this stuff.
I totally got what you were saying, and in my explanation for Jim, reiterated the scenario, I don't mind the size on the new chipped key either, and my statement about having 2, as one for the ignition, one to place against the "sensor bump" makes perfect sense.... to me at least... for an Instance of say, someone gooches your stove knob in a parking lot... you then have a 'spare key' for whatever...
my own choice, if I was going to have a spare "key" cut, would be to toss in a chip and clone it, as the cost for both is soo cheap, in reality... when I get my blanks and chips, I'll probably make 4 or 5, chipped cloned keylock keys... because it's like ...."why not?" in my thinking.
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I hid my spare passive key on the bike and carry a spare 'flat' key in my wallet. Guess where I hid my spare passive thingy?
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I hid my spare passive key on the bike and carry a spare 'flat' key in my wallet. Guess where I hid my spare passive thingy?
Hmmm.... one of the panniers!
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Hmmm.... one of the panniers!
No but I guess you could put it there, hidden under the seat.
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I totally got what you were saying, and in my explanation for Jim, reiterated the scenario, I don't mind the size on the new chipped key either, and my statement about having 2, as one for the ignition, one to place against the "sensor bump" makes perfect sense.... to me at least... for an Instance of say, someone gooches your stove knob in a parking lot... you then have a 'spare key' for whatever...
my own choice, if I was going to have a spare "key" cut, would be to toss in a chip and clone it, as the cost for both is soo cheap, in reality... when I get my blanks and chips, I'll probably make 4 or 5, chipped cloned keylock keys... because it's like ...."why not?" in my thinking.
The chip key that I have has a small hole in it that you can press a wire into and eject the chip. If I needed to I could eject the chip, hold it in place and start the bike with the key.
I also have a comment to those that continue to spout their hatred of the fob. Like it or not, it is here to stay. I can appreciate that you hate it. I do not. Your continued comments on how much you hate it is just so much more noise in a thread where in my opinion it is not appropriate.
If you have nothing to say that won't add to the conversation, why bother?
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No but I guess you could put it there, hidden under the seat.
If it is hidden under the seat, how would you get at it? You need a key to remove the seat.
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If it is hidden under the seat, how would you get at it? You need a key to remove the seat.
Well that's what I mentioned in my post about it, and that is I carry a spare key in my wallet, it's a thin flat key.
You would have to have a key to get into the bags also if you keep it there.
I don't want to get stranded. (like everyone)
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Well that's what I mentioned in my post about it, and that is I carry a spare key in my wallet, it's a thin flat key.
You would have to have a key to get into the bags also if you keep it there.
I don't want to get stranded. (like everyone)
Ah, I missed that. I don't carry a conventional wallet. It was killing my hip.
Funny story. My new wife (married in May this year) had to purchase a mobility scooter due to her back problems. We went to Seattle for a day trip in the car (from Vancouver, BC). I started to pull the scooter out of the back of the car and she exclaimed that she had forgotten the key at home. Always the innovator, I found some necessary bits and pieces and picked the lock on the scooter (remember 37 years at this). I put half the scooter together on the sidewalk before I realized I had left the battery at home. Doh!
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The chip key that I have has a small hole in it that you can press a wire into and eject the chip. If I needed to I could eject the chip, hold it in place and start the bike with the key.
I also have a comment to those that continue to spout their hatred of the fob. Like it or not, it is here to stay. I can appreciate that you hate it. I do not. Your continued comments on how much you hate it is just so much more noise in a thread where in my opinion it is not appropriate.
If you have nothing to say that won't add to the conversation, why bother?
I have to respond to this; as much as you like this system I hate it and I don't see one advantage to having this system unless it's a deterrent to thief.
I like the C14 but I sold my first 08 because of this system, I just could not warm up to it. However I got over it and bought an 09 and now I have a 2011.
So many things we do surrounds this fob/passive thing including this complete thread.
Here is the problem for me; it's the cost involved if you lose any of this stuff, I never have because I'm paranoid about it, to me it's a solution to a problem no one is having.
I'm seeking a solution to this issue for all of us interested in an alternative that will be cheaper and I hope it works out so we don't have to be so concerned about losing, washing, or just having a defective fob.
There is even a limited number of replacement fobs you can have before you have to replace the whole system, so cloning would be ideal if possible. Plus starting in 2010 you only get one fob and if you want another it's at least 300 bucks by the time you get it programed.
If I have to carry something I would rather have a key and I would bet that somewhere the insurance companies are behind this type of system. I know they are in the auto industry...
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Ah, I missed that. I don't carry a conventional wallet. It was killing my hip.
Funny story. My new wife (married in May this year) had to purchase a mobility scooter due to her back problems. We went to Seattle for a day trip in the car (from Vancouver, BC). I started to pull the scooter out of the back of the car and she exclaimed that she had forgotten the key at home. Always the innovator, I found some necessary bits and pieces and picked the lock on the scooter (remember 37 years at this). I put half the scooter together on the sidewalk before I realized I had left the battery at home. Doh!
I don't carry a conventional wallet either, I have an ID holder. Almost every Police officer carries them, you have seen them...
Try that pick the lock thing on your C14! :rotflmao:
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Gabriel says: There is even a limited number of replacement fobs you can have before you have to replace the whole system........
Why would any bike/owner need more than 6 active fobs in their lifetime I wonder?
If you think this bike has a problem and causes you to be paranoid, have a read through this:
http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?84651-D-E-S-S-KEY-CODE-AGAIN (http://www.spyderlovers.com/forums/showthread.php?84651-D-E-S-S-KEY-CODE-AGAIN)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!&highlight=dess
This is on-going after 3 years and it happens if you DON'T lose the key. :deadhorse:
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Gabriel says: There is even a limited number of replacement fobs you can have before you have to replace the whole system........
Why would any bike/owner need more than 6 active fobs in their lifetime I wonder?
6 sounds like a big number but it's only four additional for some.
On the other hand how many keys would you be allowed to make before having to replace anything?
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Gabriel says: There is even a limited number of replacement fobs you can have before you have to replace the whole system........
Why would any bike/owner need more than 6 active fobs in their lifetime I wonder?
6 sounds like a big number but it's only four additional for some.
On the other hand how many keys would you be allowed to make before having to replace anything?
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Yes, you must be paranoid. I've never had more than 4 keys for any vehicle I've ever owned, mostly 2 :chugbeer:
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I mean, how long is the expected lifetime of a motorcycle? 15 years? 20? 25? I agree that 6 slots [for active fobs] sounds scary, but really, how many active fobs is one going to lose (there is no limit on passive fobs]? Speaking for myself, I have had 4 cars and 3 motorcycles over my lifetime, so far, and I have never lost a single key.... and all but three of those vehicles they were not active fobs that could live "permanently" in a bag or jacket that don't have to be taken out- greatly reducing the potential of them being lost.
My only real complaint what Kawaski did is that the 2nd gen came with only a single active fob (and one passive). It would have been better on Kawasaki's most technologically advanced and expensive and highest-end bike (as it still was when the 2nd gen came out in 2010) that they included two active fobs instead of one. The passive fob was a good idea as an odd-on, but replacing one of the active fobs with it was not a good idea. And it didn't "save" Kawasaki much money for what it actually costs them- maybe $10 on a $15K sale?
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It's not the actual loss itself, it's the cost associated with that loss.
Being able to buy a active FOB for say 50/75 bucks would changes things completely...
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The chip key that I have has a small hole in it that you can press a wire into and eject the chip. If I needed to I could eject the chip, hold it in place and start the bike with the key.
I also have a comment to those that continue to spout their hatred of the fob. Like it or not, it is here to stay. I can appreciate that you hate it. I do not. Your continued comments on how much you hate it is just so much more noise in a thread where in my opinion it is not appropriate.
If you have nothing to say that won't add to the conversation, why bother?
Oh there have been fob detesters since day 1 of this bike (not me, I love the fob and embrace it). There have also been ABS detractors, my oil is better than Kwackers recommendations, etc and etc (not to mention car tires). That's all part of this open forum and it stirs debate as well. I don't think any of the comments so far have been hateful to FOBs. If someone doesn't like it that's fine and their comments are welcome as to why they don't like it. The first gen bikes had two fobs. Second gen had one fob and one credit card thingy. It is very expensive to lose a fob and terrible to lose both. Personally I lost one (the one with the key for about 4 years, which is why I chained the spare to my belt and never took it out. Used a another key I had made early on. Tickled to death to find the lost one in a pocket of a jacket I rarely used.
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It is very expensive to lose a fob and terrible to lose both. Personally I lost one (the one with the key
Just to clarify and reduce any possible confusion- all the C14 fobs, the active (large one) and passive (small/thin one) include a [cut/metal/flat] key which fits inside it.
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What I hope, since FOBs are probably here to stay, is that someone can make a learning FOB finder. That is a device that can learn and duplicate the same signal that the bike puts out when you push down on the stove knob. Repeatedly sending out that signal, it doesn't have to check to see if the response is correct, it just needs to let you know that it received a response. This would be great for FOBs lost in the house. One may need to remove the batteries from all the known location FOBs (cars;truck; bike spares etc) just in case they respond to the same signal, but just narrowing down to a vicinity would be very helpful in finding the darn thing. I know the 5 mile section of road where I lost my original FOB and I would have made the walk both ways if I had had such a device, but since I didn't, I just rode slowly back and forth 4 times looking. It's amazing how many little black things there are on the road specially along the edges when you start to look for them. :o
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What I hope, since FOBs are probably here to stay, is that someone can make a learning FOB finder. That is a device that can learn and duplicate the same signal that the bike puts out when you push down on the stove knob. Repeatedly sending out that signal, it doesn't have to check to see if the response is correct, it just needs to let you know that it received a response. This would be great for FOBs lost in the house. One may need to remove the batteries from all the known location FOBs (cars;truck; bike spares etc) just in case they respond to the same signal, but just narrowing down to a vicinity would be very helpful in finding the darn thing. I know the 5 mile section of road where I lost my original FOB and I would have made the walk both ways if I had had such a device, but since I didn't, I just rode slowly back and forth 4 times looking. It's amazing how many little black things there are on the road specially along the edges when you start to look for them. :o
My better half asked me if I thought this key finder is a good idea for a white elephant gift with a $25 limit. I responded that if you're a person who loses your keys, how will you not lose this? HAHA! But ... I will say, it would actually improve your chances since it would least give you 2 things to try to find instead of only the one.
https://www.whateverworks.com/itemdy00.aspx?T1=K2653 (https://www.whateverworks.com/itemdy00.aspx?T1=K2653)
Now, what is REALLY needed is a smartphone app that finds your keys or FOB ... cuz practically nobody in the entire world lets their precious phone out of their sight.
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Really? First I am hearing of this..... what exactly about fobs seems to upset them? I am sure with a little reasoning and the gaining of more knowledge they would come around.....
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
Brian
Oh there have been fob detesters since day 1 of this bike (not me, I love the fob and embrace it).
<snip>
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Well, if the locator is small enough and it is PERMANENTLY ATTACHED to the keys (fob, remote control, etc. ad nauseum), then it would be useful IMO, depending on the range at which it could be detected. And of course a useful range does not have to be 20 miles but 100 feet would be nice, 100 yards would be really nice. That would actually allow one to find something that fell out of a pocket while riding a motorcycle by driving the same route again.... instead of trying to walk slowly on the side of the highway looking for what amounts to a piece of fly $hit in a pile of pepper.
Brian
My better half asked me if I thought this key finder is a good idea for a white elephant gift with a $25 limit. I responded that if you're a person who loses your keys, how will you not lose this? HAHA! But ... I will say, it would actually improve your chances since it would least give you 2 things to try to find instead of only the one.
https://www.whateverworks.com/itemdy00.aspx?T1=K2653 (https://www.whateverworks.com/itemdy00.aspx?T1=K2653)
Now, what is REALLY needed is a smartphone app that finds your keys or FOB ... cuz practically nobody in the entire world lets their precious phone out of their sight.
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Just to clarify and reduce any possible confusion all the C14 fobs, the active (large one) and passive (small/thin one) include a [cut/metal/flat] key which fits inside it.
In the beginning on gen 1. Only one fob had the key. The other was keyless in that it had no key in the key slot to use on the bike in any key slot that was available to insert said key. At least that was the key experience that I had.
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In the beginning on gen 1. Only one fob had the key. The other was keyless in that it had no key in the key slot to use on the bike in any key slot that was available to insert said key. At least that was the key experience that I had.
Are you sure you didn't just get ripped off? I have a feeling the dealer lost one of your keys...
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Are you sure you didn't just get ripped off? I have a feeling the dealer lost one of your keys...
The bikes, as delivered, are supplied with cut keys, both the active and passive ones....
if you got a new bike, and the key was missing... it's the dealer that was responsible...
personally, I think dealerships think they are cute, and retain a key just out of the fact they can... thinking in some way it will benefit them.
as for replacement fobs, both types, those do NOT come with a key, a blank to fit the holder is extra, and the part numbers associated to all are on the Microfiche, where you find FOBS.
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Well, if the locator is small enough and it is PERMANENTLY ATTACHED to the keys (fob, remote control, etc. ad nauseum), then it would be useful IMO, depending on the range at which it could be detected. And of course a useful range does not have to be 20 miles but 100 feet would be nice, 100 yards would be really nice. That would actually allow one to find something that fell out of a pocket while riding a motorcycle by driving the same route again.... instead of trying to walk slowly on the side of the highway looking for what amounts to a piece of fly $hit in a pile of pepper.
Brian
Phone app based finder: https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Tracker-Anti-Lost-Bidirectional-Reminder/dp/B07FN246FT/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541799695&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=key+finder+smart+tracker&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/Bluetooth-Tracker-Anti-Lost-Bidirectional-Reminder/dp/B07FN246FT/ref=sr_1_2_sspa?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1541799695&sr=1-2-spons&keywords=key+finder+smart+tracker&psc=1)
"Bidirectional Alarm
Kids love to run out of your sight.Don’t worry! Nut knows where your little angels are .When Nut is disconnected with the phone, they will both beep to alarm you. And you will find the location from App."
Just one example, lots of other on Amazon.
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the distance can be as far as 30-50 meters; when you use Nut indoors with walls and people around you, the distance will be around 10-30 meters
No bad for 20 bucks...
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Something called a tile. When it gets out of range of your Bluetooth it marks the location and let you know what that location is so you can go back to it and then use a finding future. I think the range is about 30 feet or so on the Bluetooth on the tile. It lets you know as you get closer to it
quote author=Gabriel link=topic=23777.msg297517#msg297517 date=1541802334]
the distance can be as far as 30-50 meters; when you use Nut indoors with walls and people around you, the distance will be around 10-30 meters
No bad for 20 bucks...
[/quote]
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Are you sure you didn't just get ripped off? I have a feeling the dealer lost one of your keys...
I don't think so, Max. I only think they came with one key, but that was 11 years ago and my mind isn't what it once was. If any of the gen1 original owners got two keys with the two fobs let me know.
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I don't think so, Max. I only think they came with one key, but that was 11 years ago and my mind isn't what it once was. If any of the gen1 original owners got two keys with the two fobs let me know.
I had an 09 that I bought new. I received 2 active fobs with 2 keys in them when I bought it.
I upgraded to a 2012 which came with 1 active fob and 1 passive fob. Both came with keys.
I now ride a 2018 which came with the same fobs/keys as the 2012.
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Something called a tile. When it gets out of range of your Bluetooth it marks the location and let you know what that location is so you can go back to it and then use a finding future. I think the range is about 30 feet or so on the Bluetooth on the tile. It lets you know as you get closer to it
quote author=Gabriel link=topic=23777.msg297517#msg297517 date=1541802334]
the distance can be as far as 30-50 meters; when you use Nut indoors with walls and people around you, the distance will be around 10-30 meters
No bad for 20 bucks...
I have been using tiles to find my keys with my phone. You could attcah one to your FOB. Problem is battery life is a bit short for the price. They have come up with a tile with repalcable battery, I plan to check the price.
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I don't think so, Max. I only think they came with one key, but that was 11 years ago and my mind isn't what it once was. If any of the gen1 original owners got two keys with the two fobs let me know.
Both the 08 and 09 I bought from dealers came with two active fobs with metal keys inserted. The two passive fobs I bought online did not come with metal keys.
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I don't think so, Max. I only think they came with one key, but that was 11 years ago and my mind isn't what it once was. If any of the gen1 original owners got two keys with the two fobs let me know.
I have a 2009 and both my FOBs have keys.
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:)
Poor Jim was shafted, as I suspected! (We have shaft drive, so I am safe saying that).
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Sigh, you are correct. I only had one key for the two fobs but then it was very early in the product cycle (pun intended).
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I don't think so, Max. I only think they came with one key, but that was 11 years ago and my mind isn't what it once was. If any of the gen1 original owners got two keys with the two fobs let me know.
my '08, purchased on 7/7/07 from Ultimate in Richmond Va., came with 2 active FOBS, which contained keys in the holder slots... and the stove knob (of course)...
and it came with an owners manual. in a plastic bag.
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You know, it's possible I had two but I really don't remember having two keys. As Max said, it could have been a dealer fu.
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Everybody probably thinks I abandoned this thread but I'm still working on it.
The locksmith tells me that there is no easy solution and one would have to be fabricated (more or less).
However he said he still has a couple of sources that are willing to tackle this job but I need to bring my fob back so he can get all the information from the internal components which I'm going to do in the next week or so. He's not real close and the weather is not good right now.
I'll be back!
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Everybody probably thinks I abandoned this thread but I'm still working on it.
Nah, we wouldn't think that...we knew you were busy installing new horns. ;D
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my initial response, and continued responses, and hopes.. are at a point moot; I would just ask you to let it sleep.. seriously, I don't wanna be Debbie Downer on this, but there is reasoning behind my suggestions...you personally are not going to break the code, and this guy who has no $$$$$$$ interest in it will neither... 10 years of production, and similar issues will tell the tale..... this guy isn't a Guru, nor will he miraculously pull this outta his butt.
face reality, put this to sleep, and we all agree to disagree... (silently in the back ground)
all I can say is what I've said before... it ain't happening.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/c17e1dd1df88c48d9d5c8508622c2efc/tenor.gif)
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I don't think so, Max. I only think they came with one key, but that was 11 years ago and my mind isn't what it once was. If any of the gen1 original owners got two keys with the two fobs let me know.
Two large active fobs and two keys, plus the stove knob key, included with my 08.
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Two large active fobs and two keys, plus the stove knob key, included with my 08.
same here
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having just gone thru this last week, with a fellow on the COG forum, that bought a bike with a destroyed ignition lock, and NO keys whatsoever, but he did manage to find a brand new "old stock" ECU/FOB set, for like $300.. (yes, he was extremely lucky on that one...)
the locks and keys, sold in a "group" are under this part number (Note: this is not including FOBs and ECU...)
see below;
the parts "grouping" that covers that complete set of locks, with keys; (ignition switch, gastank lockset,both bag latch/lock assemblies, and seat lock: with 2 keys for each except 1 for the ignition, all keyed alike) is
p/n 27045-5395 SWITCH-ASSY and costs $1150, but mind you, that set also includes both saddlebag latch assemblies, with keys..
just tossed it here for reference...because it keeps coming up.
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I went miles for key fob replacement and locksmith white plains (https://www.westchesterlocksmith.us/) have provided me the key at a reasonable cost.
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I have purchased two fobs from locksmith houston (https://www.houstonlocksmith.us/) near me and I lost the one but the spare key has helped me dealing with an emergency.
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I had only one key and in order to deal with the future emergency, i called locksmith boston (https://www.locksmith-chelsea-ma.com/) and made a spare fob so that i can use it during an emergency.