Author Topic: Clutch pull  (Read 3414 times)

Offline Hooligan

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #20 on: November 19, 2019, 11:16:42 PM »
Quick shifter......

Just gonna leave that there...... :rotflmao: :chugbeer:
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2019, 06:12:33 AM »
I've actually found quick shifting like that to be smoother than using the clutch upshifting.  Haven't really tried that on the Indian.
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Offline jimmymac

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #22 on: November 20, 2019, 06:20:24 AM »
I've actually found quick shifting like that to be smoother than using the clutch upshifting.  Haven't really tried that on the Indian.
2 wheeled farm implements have straight cut gears for sure engagement. They don't care about the extra noise when you're bailing hay and ****.
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Offline just gone

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #23 on: November 20, 2019, 08:04:00 AM »

"Add the "Easy Clutch" to your classic and vintage BMW and it lessens the force required to pull the clutch lever. The effort required to operate the clutch is less than half of the stock setup!"


Physics :)  Their statement is not actually fully accurate (by wording and by omission).  The amount of effort (work) is the same before and after the modification.  The work is pressure/force over distance.  What they are doing is exactly what any pulley does- it reduces the amount of force, but you have to apply that force over more distance.  So what this means is to halve the amount of force of the clutch, you must pull it twice as far each time.  A good comparison is lifting a 10 pound weight 10 times is the same amount of effort as lifting a 20 pound weight 5 times.
silly stuff...
I don't really think that effort "explanation" really is right either...

I guess that's why I use small glasses when I drink beer.. reduces my "lift effort"..
anyways, a "single pully does not reduce effort.. just changes the direction of the pull...  E=W
in order to "reduce" effort"  a second pully must be added into the equation, and there in lies the "reduction", but again, some effort is lost due to friction on the pullies..

https://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pulleys-d_1297.html


what is being seen in that BMW farkle, is not really due to the directional change, as much as because of the "lever" principle, based on the actual "diameter" of said chain gear ;  which does give specific advantage of the "lever" due to it's "distance from the rotational axis"


Ahhh look again guys...isn't the BMW device shown a movable pulley..which according to the reference you provided.....

Quote from: Toolbox website
With a single moveable pulley the effort force is half (or more due to efficiency loss) of the load.

Offline just gone

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #24 on: November 20, 2019, 08:08:40 AM »
2 wheeled farm implements have straight cut gears for sure engagement. They don't care about the extra noise when you're bailing hay and ****.

The shifting gears in my C14 are straight cut, doesn't mean I'd ever own an fringed Indian, but I'm missing your point. Unless it was just to compare  V'Jim's
ride to a hay bailer, in which case I'm good.  :thumbs:

Offline tweeter55

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #25 on: November 20, 2019, 11:42:37 AM »
Ahhh look again guys...isn't the BMW device shown a movable pulley..which according to the reference you provided.....


That's why I said it doesn't seem like it should work as good as it does. The pulley moves & the clutch only moves 1/2 the distance to engage/disengage.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #26 on: November 20, 2019, 03:30:43 PM »
I've actually found quick shifting like that to be smoother than using the clutch upshifting.  Haven't really tried that on the Indian.

Can't do it 1-2, but from there on, I clutchless upshift about 90% of the time.  Clutchless DOWNshifting is a lot more difficult, and I rarely do that.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #27 on: November 20, 2019, 04:00:15 PM »
That's why I said it doesn't seem like it should work as good as it does. The pulley moves & the clutch only moves 1/2 the distance to engage/disengage.

I admit, I didn't actually look at the "Install" instructions, and din't see that the "pullygear' was floating..
so Yes... it does make for 1/2 effort... sorry...
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Offline tweeter55

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #28 on: November 20, 2019, 06:08:18 PM »
 
I admit, I didn't actually look at the "Install" instructions, and din't see that the "pullygear' was floating..
so Yes... it does make for 1/2 effort... sorry...
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #29 on: November 20, 2019, 07:19:28 PM »
But the same amount of work :)
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #30 on: November 20, 2019, 07:23:44 PM »
But the same amount of work :)


 define "work"...
the pressure/effort for movement is halved.

work by definition, goes to the point of the source... levers make "work" easier, and reduce the output upon thos supplying the effort.. so.. no, it's less work. Less effort, to accomplish the task.

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Offline tweeter55

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #31 on: November 20, 2019, 07:53:55 PM »
Correct me if I’m wrong, please. Doesn’t the floating pulley travel half the distance that the cable travels? The effect being that the work is 1/2 of normal.
Over the years:       1972 Harley Rapido
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #32 on: November 20, 2019, 10:34:32 PM »
define "work"..."

Perhaps "energy over time" then.  In any case, for this type of system, "work" and "energy" are the same. "Effort" is a lay term for force, which does not account for time or distance.

Quote
the pressure/effort for movement is halved.

Yes, the pressure applied (which is the force or effort) is halved, but not the amount of work. 

Quote
levers make "work" easier, [...] so.. no, it's less work.

No.  The work doesn't change.  It is the same amount of work/energy.  You are reducing force/pressure while increasing time/distance.

As I said in a previous post- you can't magically make something use less energy with gears and pulleys- there is a time element involved.  A pulley system can reduce the amount of force, but you have to apply the force for more time/travel.... or in reverse (more force, but in less time/travel).  Energy (or work) is conserved (stays the same).

https://www.explainthatstuff.com/pulleys.html

A simple example would be hauling 10 gallons of water up some stairs.  It is less effort to move a 5 gallon container up the stairs than it would be a 10 gallon container- but you would have to make two trips (you double the distance/time).  So it is the same amount of work (ignoring that you would have to go back down the stairs again :) ).

In the example of a clutch lever- you would be using the same amount of calories (a biological unit of energy/work), your muscles would be doing the same amount of "workout"- either less effort for more time, or more effort for less time.  Pick your poison :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #33 on: November 21, 2019, 05:18:26 AM »
2 wheeled farm implements have straight cut gears for sure engagement. They don't care about the extra noise when you're bailing hay and ****.


What to do, what to do...  Time for the sword to be sharpened again.. :rotflmao:
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #34 on: November 21, 2019, 05:26:17 AM »

What to do, what to do...  Time for the sword to be sharpened again.. :rotflmao:

Let's talk about the physics of sharpness...
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline jimmymac

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #35 on: November 21, 2019, 08:17:26 AM »
I really enjoyed it too. 8)
The grass isn't always greener.

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #36 on: November 21, 2019, 10:03:16 AM »
Sigh...surrounded by Twits.
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Offline just gone

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Re: Clutch pull
« Reply #37 on: November 21, 2019, 12:31:21 PM »
Sigh...surrounded by Twits.
...As all Muggle-Wumps should be, now back to standing on your head!