Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: Snype on August 18, 2016, 11:10:53 PM
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I'm in need of new rubber. I had the Angel GT 50 profile and really did not like them. They were not very responsive. I'm thinking of PR 4 55 profile 75w.
What do you run. How about some new tire reviews?
Snype
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What do you run.
PR4GT
How about some new tire reviews?
You will want to search the threads. There are dozens of [not terribly old] tire threads with lots of good info.
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PR4GT
+1
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PR4GT with 55 rear. I can only say how they compare to OEM stones and Avon Storm Ultra II (no comparison) because once I put them on about 5 tire changes ago, I never looked back.
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I just mounted Pilot Power 3, more out of laziness (I didn't want to toy with choices, since I'm dealing with other issues on the bike right now) and I've been very satisfied with them. I get about 5 to 6 thousand miles on the rear, and 7-9 thousand on the front. These tires prioritise grip over longevity and wet performance.
So I wanted to ask: how's grip with the PR4s? if you drive aggressive (leaning far, almost foot peg scrapping), does it slip? do you feel safe, planted? front, rear? I always hear and read how good they are on the wet and the long mileage, but in the dry, attacking curves: how are they?
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So I wanted to ask: how's grip with the PR4s? if you drive aggressive (leaning far, almost foot peg scrapping), does it slip? do you feel safe, planted? front, rear? I always hear and read how good they are on the wet and the long mileage, but in the dry, attacking curves: how are they?
For me they are fine, but I doubt I push it anywhere near as much as you in the corners :) So for that info, best to listen to someone else. They are excellent in the wet.
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Rockin' Michelin PR2s till they quit making 'em! ;)
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I'm in need of new rubber. I had the Angel GT 50 profile and really did not like them. They were not very responsive. I'm thinking of PR 4 55 profile 75w.
What do you run. How about some new tire reviews?
Snype
Were they "A" spec version?.I have Angel GT "A" spec on the GTR1400,outstanding tyre in terms of handling,response and braking on both wet and dry roads.Wearing very well no abnormal wear patterns.The bike handling and response far better than I though possible on such a heavy bike when fully loaded for touring.
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What he said^ on my second set of Pirelli's Angel GT's..... really like em!
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Angel GT's 55 rear all the way.
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A PR4GT in the front and a PR4 with a plug in the rear. (easy boys)
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Rockin' Michelin PR2s till they quit making 'em! ;)
+1!!!
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A PR4GT in the front and a PR4 with a plug in the rear. (easy boys)
:rotflmao:
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Angel GT A-spec. 55 rear
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I've been runnin' PR4GTs pretty regular. Getting around 8,500 miles out of the rear and maybe 10,000 out of the front. Yes, all my tires wear out in the center first. I like twisties, but
I'm not a knee dragger and my skill set doesn't allow me to get rid of my chicken strips....are they called chicken strips or chicken stripes?
I'm going to try Avon Storm 3DX-M s next , 'cause they're cheaper and some report longer life.
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Strips. like the food.
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PR4 GTs for me :)
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Just put on PR4 GT's.
The OEM "Stones" went 5,101 miles -> Toast; both of them at the same time. Always ran 42 psi. Front was balder than the back.
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After a couple of front end minor slides in dry cold conditions I ditched the OEM tyres at 1800 miles before I had a major incident.
The bike would not lean into corners with out a fight very unpredictable in certain conditions,Kawasaki should look hard Bridgestone BT021 tyres they are fitting to their bikes as these tyres are not doing them no favors in advertising the bikes handling abilities to the new owners.
Fit Pirelli Angel GT "A" spec and you have a totally different bike,handles,predicable when braking,outstanding sports machine in the twisties,dry,wet conditions plus exceptional low tyre wear.
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Strips. like the food.
Got it, Thanks. :D
While you're in the mood, is GIVI (as in top case) pronounced "Giv-ey" or "Jiv-ey" That is hard g, short i, long e; vs soft g, short i, long e ? ..or something else altogether? :-\
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Got it, Thanks. :D
While you're in the mood, is GIVI (as in top case) pronounced "Giv-ey" or "Jiv-ey" That is hard g, short i, long e; vs soft g, short i, long e ? ..or something else altogether? :-\
I believe its pronounced GV. The initials of the founder, Giuseppe Visenzi.
Running Pirelli Angel GTs now. Approx. 3K miles with no complaints. One opinion is that the previous set of PR3s were better in the wet, and on painted surfaces. There are a couple of really wide solid yellow painted crosswalks which run at a 45 degree angle to the road that I go over at about 35 mph at the golf course. They are real fun when they're wet.
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Got it, Thanks. :D
While you're in the mood, is GIVI (as in top case) pronounced "Giv-ey" or "Jiv-ey" That is hard g, short i, long e; vs soft g, short i, long e ? ..or something else altogether? :-\
I've always heard "Jee Vee".
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I said prior in this thread Angel GT's. Well I was forced to try PR4's as the Angel A Spec's are all on back order until November and there was no way I was going to keep the OEM rubber with a plug in the rear on for that long. So coming from the Angel GT A Spcs's to the PR4's I'm not impressed. The Angel's fall into corners. It's effortless cornering and extreme confidence. The PR4's don't do that. You need to put much more effort into the cornering. The confidence part I really haven't had a chance to test yet on the slab ride home.
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I said prior in this thread Angel GT's. Well I was forced to try PR4's as the Angel A Spec's are all on back order until November and there was no way I was going to keep the OEM rubber with a plug in the rear on for that long. So coming from the Angel GT A Spcs's to the PR4's I'm not impressed. The Angel's fall into corners. It's effortless cornering and extreme confidence. The PR4's don't do that. You need to put much more effort into the cornering. The confidence part I really haven't had a chance to test yet on the slab ride home.
Same size? You said PR4, not PR4GT, which did you get? And how are you comparing the Angel GT A to the PR4 if you are coming off the "OEM rubber"? [update for last question: I see previous post, so you were only changing the rear]
Generally, the turning effort is mostly about the shape of the tire (assuming one hasn't changed the suspension, tire pressures, and the sidewalls are not deforming, etc). Nothing about how sticky the tire is, how well it rides, how well it wears, how well it sheds water, etc. If the tire comparison is between two identical sizes (with same sidewall strengths), then only shape remains... and that generally doesn't seem to change much between models and manufacturers. Tire pressure can also greatly affect tire shape, so make sure that is correct when comparing (42PSI).
Worn tires, no matter what model or size, will generally have greatly different cornering effort and behavior than a new tire (of any sort)... mostly because the wear changes the shape. It is typical (at least based on my experience) that the center will wear out first (flat spot), making it resistant to cornering (lots of effort), and then suddenly very squirrely (as it rides on the transition step), and then easier (as it finally falls over the step and rides on the original less-worn shape).
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Boy, Kevin, you seem to be in the vast minority. Guys rave about the PR4's.
That said, if we can get some more guys to make comments similar to yours, maybe PR4 prices will drop :)
Have you confirmed your tire pressure?
Maybe you got a bad one.
My experience is, the PR4 GT is a fantastic, neutral turning tire that makes me wonder what else somebody could want in a sport tour tire.
Crap, posting lines like that is gonna offset yours! And the price goes right back up! I better delete it.
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Sorry.. PR4GT. 55 rear which is what I always got the Angel GT's in. When I put the very first set of Angel GT A Spec on my 2012 3 years ago I thought something was wrong. It fell into the corners almost too easy. They were outstanding in the wet as well. Never complaint. The PR's aren't bad and are far superior over the OEM crap but they don't feel the same way in the corners.
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Oh BTW before singing the praise of the PR's have either of you tried the Angel GTs?
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Same size? You said PR4, not PR4GT, which did you get? And how are you comparing the Angel GT A to the PR4 if you are coming off the "OEM rubber"? [update for last question: I see previous post, so you were only changing the rear]
I ran Angel GT A Spec on my 2012 before I traded it in for my 2015. So yes I have 43,000 miles of Angel GT experience. I would never just change a rear. Especially if I'm running OEM. I changed both front and rear.
Generally, the turning effort is mostly about the shape of the tire (assuming one hasn't changed the suspension, tire pressures, and the sidewalls are not deforming, etc). Nothing about how sticky the tire is, how well it rides, how well it wears, how well it sheds water, etc. If the tire comparison is between two identical sizes (with same sidewall strengths), then only shape remains... and that generally doesn't seem to change much between models and manufacturers. Tire pressure can also greatly affect tire shape, so make sure that is correct when comparing (42PSI).
I run all my tires at 44 to 42LBS. As you know with the C14 it loses air over time. I always put in 44 and when I get to 42 I bump it up again.
Worn tires, no matter what model or size, will generally have greatly different cornering effort and behavior than a new tire (of any sort)... mostly because the wear changes the shape. It is typical (at least based on my experience) that the center will wear out first (flat spot), making it resistant to cornering (lots of effort), and then suddenly very squirrely (as it rides on the transition step), and then easier (as it finally falls over the step and rides on the original less-worn shape).
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Oh BTW before singing the praise of the PR's have either of you tried the Angel GTs?
I haven't. So I would never dismiss or criticize the Angel GT's. I *can* sing the praise of the PR4GT compared to the OEM and other tires I have used on other bikes, but my experience is, indeed, limited.
I was simply pointing out that comparisons can be complex and why.... and that typically the "easy fallover cornering" is a shape function that can be affected by things other than just the design (like suspension, load weight, sidewall strength selection, tire pressures) which need to be held constant.
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I haven't. So I would never dismiss or criticize the Angel GT's. I *can* sing the praise of the PR4GT compared to the OEM and other tires I have used on other bikes, but my experience is, indeed, limited.
I was simply pointing out that comparisons can be complex and why.... and that typically the "easy fallover cornering" is a shape function that can be affected by things other than just the design (like suspension, load weight, sidewall strength selection, tire pressures) which need to be held constant.
Take a walk on the wildside. Stick a pair of Angel's under ur butt ;D I totally agree it's all about the shape of the Angels. The PRs are I'm sure a rock solid tire it's just a matter of feel I guess. There is a similar thread in the other forum and the majority like PR followed closely by the Angels and then a few one offs.
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Pirelli Angel GT 190/50 "A" all the way. Outstanding handling,also fall into corners.Was looking to put Michelin PR4 GT on but not available,so on went the Pirelli's. So glad I did.
Reading on a BMW forum about cupping issues on the front Michelin PR4 GT tyres with the heavier BMW's. Interesting.
Anyone having these concerns with their Kawasaki's?
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Reading on a BMW forum about cupping issues on the front Michelin PR4 GT tyres with the heavier BMW's. Interesting.Anyone having these concerns with their Kawasaki's?
I have not seen a single posting to that. My OEM ["Brickstones"] ones did cup badly, however.
On a related note, I just noticed that my rear PR4GT is getting near the center wearband, although has lots of outer tread :( Highway victim. I replaced the worn-out OEM tires at 9,357mi on 04-10-2014. Now at 23,500 = 14,143. I think I can go several more months. The front I am not so sure about, I need to look more closely.
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I recently cut a section out of my old rear PR4 GT (50 series) just to see how much rubber was between the cord and the road when that tiny center sipe goes away.
Below you can see that the center sipe is still just barely visible but I doubt it's depth could be measured by mechanical means without the use of some sort of expensive laser tool.
There is really more rubber there than what I was expecting.
Since I did the cut I've also read where some have said that the GTs have only one ply on the sidewalls. I really have no expertise in tires, but it looks to me that it has 2 bias plys
(sort of an orange peach color in the photos) all over the tire and one radial ply (cream color) at the tread. No?
..anyway regardless of whether I'm even close in my ply counting, it would be nice if someone else would do the same with a non-GT PR4 just for comparison.
Just use a recip saw and a belt sander to clean it up a bit.
(click pic for full size)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-B44JnGS/0/L/i-B44JnGS-L.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-B44JnGS/0/O/i-B44JnGS.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XJzLRrS/0/M/i-XJzLRrS-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-XJzLRrS/0/O/i-XJzLRrS.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CcwWXtg/0/L/i-CcwWXtg-L.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-CcwWXtg/0/O/i-CcwWXtg.jpg)
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I recently cut a section out of my old rear PR4 GT (50 series) just to see how much rubber was between the cord and the road when that tiny center sipe goes away.
Good/interesting info/photos.
It is somewhat reassuring. I am trying to determine how long to run tires past wear bars- other than failure, the biggest risk is, of course, not having tread grooves. And that will severely hurt wet riding. Of course, if you don't ride in the rain, that part should not matter (but what to do if caught unexpectedly in the rain... yuck).
What is not shown in the photo are any of the center wear bar indicators, unfortunately. I will assume that they are/were worn flat/even (or you would not have replaced the tire).
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What is not shown in the photo are any of the center wear bar indicators, unfortunately. I will assume that they are/were worn flat/even (or you would not have replaced the tire).
Yeah, in hindsight I could have sliced it at a better location, to show the wear bars. I just picked a random spot because at the time I was only wanting to know how much rubber was between the cord and the center sipe. IIRC, I don't think the wear bars were reached yet as they are off center a bit and my tires always wear out in the middle, so I replace the tire when the center sipe disappears. If it works in my schedule I may take a set a little closer to the cord. That will have to wait though as my next set of tires are AVON Storm 3D x-m, and I doubt the current PR4GTs will be toasted before I need to change them for a longer trip in October. I don't always wear the tires all the way down because my C14 is used more for trips, I rarely just go out for a ride on it as I have other bikes to ride local. Maybe a local day ride 3 - 4 times a year. If I have only 1000-1500 miles left on the tire it needs to come off before I leave the house. Yes, I do waste a lot of tire, and yes the dark side has really been tugging at me. I may wear down (pun groan here :P ) and fall into the dark side some day.
Still it would be nice if others would slice open their worn tires and then we could start a tire cross section photo library data base right here. :thumbs:
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I can't do a cross section, but here are some comparison photos of my rear and front from straight-on and at an angle at 14,200 miles of wear. I used a very expensive/nice camera and in HDR mode to try and get the best image I could... since looking at wear patterns in 2D is already challenging enough.
I don't normally do this, but I am posting at rather high resolution, since detail does matter in this case.
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Dang, Maxtog, what do you weigh? About 90#'s? :o
That's amazing to see @ 14,200 miles. I'll be shocked to see 8,000 from my new PR4 GT's, but I can hope!
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Dang, Maxtog, what do you weigh? About 90#'s? :o
I finished my diet (mostly) so I am now 137 pounds. Knowing me, that won't last long. I will slip back into eating too much and within a year, be back at 155 pounds and ready to diet again. Will I ever learn?
That's amazing to see @ 14,200 miles. I'll be shocked to see 8,000 from my new PR4 GT's, but I can hope!
There are so many factors that affect wear. I think a lot of it is the type and condition of the roads. But there is also weight, how much you spin (if any), how much crown, what temperatures, if the tires are kept inflated properly, etc. Looking carefully at my tires at 14,200, I think I still have several months left on the rear (love to know what others think), and I am really not sure about the front. But to me, it doesn't look like I am going to get what a lot of people claim as two rear to one front. It looks more like 1.333 rear to one front. And if that is the case, I will just replace them both at the same time due to the hassle and risk of taking it in (I can't do tires myself.... no way, no how).
It is interesting to compare to the photos from Marty.... Oh, hey, Marty, you didn't post on there how many miles were on the tire!!! I wish I could take some of the unused side tread and slap it in the middle.... lots of highway miles compared to fun cornering. Where I live, I gotta go quite a long way to get to "nowhere", where there are interesting roads (no lights, lots of turns/curves/etc).... plus I also rack up about 60 miles a week of slab just going to and from my friend's house once a week. It adds up. I do like these tires.
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Shoot man, ATGATT puts me at 260-270. I couldn't get to 137 unless I cut off all my limbs and then some (big hands you know... ;))
I live in Ga and we're closing in on 90+ days in a row of 90+ temps. Come on fall!! Our gravel in the road is fragmented granite with lots of sharp edges and we ride two up a lot. I'd be happy with 8,000 miles. I've never gotten more than 6,500 on any tire of any kind and I ride pretty conservatively. I got 5,051 on the OEM "Stones.
Crap, I guess I just need cheaper tires, but I like the PR4 GT's so far.
Regarding your miles left, I'll start the pool with 700 miles based on the thickness of Marty's cross-section photo. I'd be toast in 200.
Thanks!
Ron
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I get about 14k out of a rear PR4GT and will probably make 2 to1 rear to front. Lots of miles on the slab...
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... Oh, hey, Marty, you didn't post on there how many miles were on the tire!!!
I weigh around 180-185 geared up, but like I said the bike is almost always packed for a trip as I just don't day ride her much. So the side cases and top bag will be loaded but no pillion unless I have the cooler along for the trip.
That pictured tire is approx. 8500-8700 miles of usage. I've never gotten more than 9k out of a rear tire. The fronts always (well not the OEMs of course) look like they could go to 10-12k but I replace in pairs usually.
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Shoot man, ATGATT puts me at 260-270. I couldn't get to 137 unless I cut off all my limbs and then some (big hands you know... ;))
I don't know my ATGATT weight. Never occurred to me to weigh myself like that :) I will have to try and remember to do that someday.
Regarding your miles left, I'll start the pool with 700 miles based on the thickness of Marty's cross-section photo. I'd be toast in 200.
I hope it is more than that! Looks like this could be turned into a fun game, although without any prizes.
It is interesting to read how huge the variance can be- Denzier's is similar to my mine, Marty's is somewhat more than half.
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Were they "A" spec version?.I have Angel GT "A" spec on the GTR1400,outstanding tyre in terms of handling,response and braking on both wet and dry roads.Wearing very well no abnormal wear patterns.The bike handling and response far better than I though possible on such a heavy bike when fully loaded for touring.
+1
I just ordered a new Angel GT/A after noticing the cords starting to show in the old tire. I got right around 10k miles out of the same tire and I never had to plug it! The tire will be delivered tomorrow.
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+1
I just ordered a new Angel GT/A after noticing the cords starting to show in the old tire. I got right around 10k miles out of the same tire and I never had to plug it! The tire will be delivered tomorrow.
Yeah the Angel lovers are out there :) If they weren't back ordered until November they would be on my bike right now.
I could have went with a set of Avon's or something else but with all the hype about the PR's I figured I'd give them a try. Aside from not falling into the turns like the Angel's I'm not unhappy with them. They do grip well and I'm getting more confident with them in the turns. The Angels are just a completely different feel.
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Jeez.... ya'll a bunch of lightweights.... I tip the scale at 270 pounds (123Kg) buck naked, never mind with ATGATT.... I can add about 8 pounds (4kg) for my boots alone....
Then again, my normal cruising speed on any road is normally 85-100MpH(140-160Km/H), although our legal speed limit is at most 75MpH (120Km/H). Straights / flats is obviously playtime, then it goes up to 125-135MpH (200-220Km/H) on long trips. (hence the covered number-plate when I travel. Rather pay R500 for covering a number-plate, than R???? for a speeding fine.)
That obviously eats tyres, hence the reason for my PR4 (Normal) at 5200 miles (8500Km), looks the same as Maxtog's....
Now a bit :offtopic: I know, but talking of fines..... There is a member amongst us, that once got a R45 000 speeding fine. Authorities actually came and fetched him from his home, and locked him up to appear in court. A few years ago, but still valid.....
Back on topic, I need to replace front and rear tyres a.s.a.p. While at it, I'll be replacing the batteries in the tyre pressure sensors as well. (joys of owning an '08model :thumbs: ) I'll definitely be looking at the PR4's again, but the GT version. I bought the bike with a normal PR4 on the rear, and a normal PR3 on the front. Tyres were new when I bought the bike 7 months ago, and didn't see the need to replace them. If I could get my hands on a set of PR3's, I would most definitely not hesitate to buy them. I actually preferred the 3's to the 4's.
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Jeez.... ya'll a bunch of lightweights.... I tip the scale at 270 pounds (123Kg) buck naked, never mind with ATGATT.... I can add about 8 pounds (4kg) for my boots alone....
Then again, my normal cruising speed on any road is normally 85-100MpH(140-160Km/H), although our legal speed limit is at most 75MpH (120Km/H). Straights / flats is obviously playtime, then it goes up to 125-135MpH (200-220Km/H) on long trips. (hence the covered number-plate when I travel. Rather pay R500 for covering a number-plate, than R???? for a speeding fine.)
That obviously eats tyres, hence the reason for my PR4 (Normal) at 5200 miles (8500Km), looks the same as Maxtog's....
Now a bit :offtopic: I know, but talking of fines..... There is a member amongst us, that once got a R45 000 speeding fine. Authorities actually came and fetched him from his home, and locked him up to appear in court. A few years ago, but still valid.....
Back on topic, I need to replace front and rear tyres a.s.a.p. While at it, I'll be replacing the batteries in the tyre pressure sensors as well. (joys of owning an '08model :thumbs: ) I'll definitely be looking at the PR4's again, but the GT version. I bought the bike with a normal PR4 on the rear, and a normal PR3 on the front. Tyres were new when I bought the bike 7 months ago, and didn't see the need to replace them. If I could get my hands on a set of PR3's, I would most definitely not hesitate to buy them. I actually preferred the 3's to the 4's.
We can still get the PR3's https://www.jakewilson.com/p/1742/30413/Michelin-Pilot-Road-3-Radial-Rear-Motorcycle-Tire (https://www.jakewilson.com/p/1742/30413/Michelin-Pilot-Road-3-Radial-Rear-Motorcycle-Tire)
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Yeah the Angel lovers are out there :) If they weren't back ordered until November they would be on my bike right now.
I could have went with a set of Avon's or something else but with all the hype about the PR's I figured I'd give them a try. Aside from not falling into the turns like the Angel's I'm not unhappy with them. They do grip well and I'm getting more confident with them in the turns. The Angels are just a completely different feel.
Where did you look for the Angels that said backordered till November? I had a look at 5 or 6 online retailers yesterday and they all had stock on the rear tires (I didn't check on the front). I ended up ordering from Dennis Kirk, $161 for a Angel GT/A 190/50
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Where did you look for the Angels that said backordered till November? I had a look at 5 or 6 online retailers yesterday and they all had stock on the rear tires (I didn't check on the front). I ended up ordering from Dennis Kirk, $161 for a Angel GT/A 190/50
This was a couple of weeks ago I looked around. RevZilla, Motorcycle SuperStore, Amazon... etc... All said backordered but never said how long. My mechanic (who is also a C14 pilot) then said his dealer had them backordered until November. This was for the 190/55 A spec.
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We can still get the PR3's https://www.jakewilson.com/p/1742/30413/Michelin-Pilot-Road-3-Radial-Rear-Motorcycle-Tire (https://www.jakewilson.com/p/1742/30413/Michelin-Pilot-Road-3-Radial-Rear-Motorcycle-Tire)
Thanks Rhino, appreciated.
For the price of shipping them over to the RSA, I might as well just get the PR4 GT's here. The dealer I buy from locally, supplies, fits and balances it free of charge. You actually get discount for a combo as well.
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Thanks Rhino, appreciated.
For the price of shipping them over to the RSA, I might as well just get the PR4 GT's here. The dealer I buy from locally, supplies, fits and balances it free of charge. You actually get discount for a combo as well.
Yeah I'm sure shipping to RSA from the US is not ideal. But here in the US, jakewilson.com ships free and it's never more than 2 days. Sometimes it's the next day.
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I just noticed that my rear PR4GT is getting near the center wearband, although has lots of outer tread :( Highway victim. I replaced the worn-out OEM tires at 9,357mi on 04-10-2014. Now at 23,500 = 14,143. I think I can go several more months. The front I am not so sure about, I need to look more closely.
I am now at about 16,600 miles on the PR4GT's, the second set of tires on the Concours (put on 04-10-2014 at 9,357 miles; bike now at 26,000 miles). The tiny center line on the rear tire is still just barely visible. The front doesn't have all that much life either. So it is pretty much time to spend lots of money. I certainly can't complain about the life!
Michelin PR4GT Front: 120/70ZR17 58W Rear: 190/50ZR17 73W
My local dealer (Sunrise) wanted: front $199.16 + rear $276 + tax $23.75 = $498.75! And I would save only $40 on mounting when buying the tires from them and they wouldn't even discuss a price reduction.
Ordered tires from Jake Wilson again: Front $151.99 rear $209.99 they price matched Bike Bandit for $5, so total with free shipping and no tax was $356.98.
Now I have to pay an exorbitant price to get them mounted.... wait for it.... $220!!!!! Complete ends up being $576.98, approaching $0.035 per mile.
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I am now at about 16,600 miles on the PR4GT's, the second set of tires on the Concours (put on 04-10-2014 at 9,357 miles; bike now at 26,000 miles). The tiny center line on the rear tire is still just barely visible. The front doesn't have all that much life either. So it is pretty much time to spend lots of money. I certainly can't complain about the life!
Michelin PR4GT Front: 120/70ZR17 58W Rear: 190/50ZR17 73W
My local dealer (Sunrise) wanted: front $199.16 + rear $276 + tax $23.75 = $498.75! And I would save only $40 on mounting when buying the tires from them and they wouldn't even discuss a price reduction.
Ordered tires from Jake Wilson again: Front $151.99 rear $209.99 they price matched Bike Bandit for $5, so total with free shipping and no tax was $356.98.
Now I have to pay an exorbitant price to get them mounted.... wait for it.... $220!!!!! Complete ends up being $576.98, approaching $0.035 per mile.
That must be a joke :o
Last time I fitted "slippers" on GTR it cost me about 20 $ ;D
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That must be a joke :o
Last time I fitted "slippers" on GTR it cost me about 20 $ ;D
Nope, they are dead serious. Some people save money by bringing in just the wheels/tires, but that isn't an option for me.
I did find an independent shop called "Precision Motorcycle". They quoted $100 to balance and mount both tires, so that is less than half of Sunrise's price. But can I trust them? For $120 savings, I am certainly considering it. Plus, they are less busy, so I might be able to do-it-while-I-wait.
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Nope, they are dead serious. Some people save money by bringing in just the wheels/tires, but that isn't an option for me.
I did find an independent shop called "Precision Motorcycle". They quoted $100 to balance and mount both tires, so that is less than half of Sunrise's price. But can I trust them? For $120 savings, I am certainly considering it. Plus, they are less busy, so I might be able to do-it-while-I-wait.
Just make sure that they're aware of the TPS modules and how fragile they can be.
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Just make sure that they're aware of the TPS modules and how fragile they can be.
Yep, I asked the guy about that, he said they are used to it, but to warn them about it at the time I arrive. I wonder if there is anything else "special" or "different" about the C14 I need to point out to them? Since I own the factory manual, I would bring that in for them.
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Nope, they are dead serious. Some people save money by bringing in just the wheels/tires, but that isn't an option for me.
I did find an independent shop called "Precision Motorcycle". They quoted $100 to balance and mount both tires, so that is less than half of Sunrise's price. But can I trust them? For $120 savings, I am certainly considering it. Plus, they are less busy, so I might be able to do-it-while-I-wait.
No f'ing way I'd pay a stealer that price for tires and mounting. I use an indy shop and because I value my time more than I enjoy removing wheels I take the bike in. When you were at the indy shop did you notice what bikes they had in the service dept?
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No f'ing way I'd pay a stealer that price for tires and mounting. I use an indy shop and because I value my time more than I enjoy removing wheels I take the bike in. When you were at the indy shop did you notice what bikes they had in the service dept?
This time I called. I have only been there physically once. They seemed to have just about every type there.
http://www.precisionmotorcycle.com/ (http://www.precisionmotorcycle.com/)
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The C14 is really easy to remove wheels from. Especially the back.If at all possible remove them and save some dollars. Let them know your rotors are straight and you want them to stay that wsy
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Yep, I asked the guy about that, he said they are used to it, but to warn them about it at the time I arrive. I wonder if there is anything else "special" or "different" about the C14 I need to point out to them? Since I own the factory manual, I would bring that in for them.
Just had a set of Pirelli Angel GT put on my 2012 and I noticed a different looking valve stem on the back. Its a little longer. Everything still works.
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Ordered tires from Jake Wilson again: Front $151.99 rear $209.99 they price matched Bike Bandit for $5, so total with free shipping and no tax was $356.98.
Tires arrived today. Work is a nightmare- 17 hours Monday, 10 hours Tuesday, have already worked 13 hours today and have to go back. Tomorrow is the same. I think they will be sitting in the corner a long while....
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Just had a set of Pirelli Angel GT put on my 2012 and I noticed a different looking valve stem on the back. Its a little longer. Everything still works.
You mean a different valve stem after the tire was changed or do you mean just compared to the one in the front?...If the former, then if it was changed at a dealer and the bike is still under warranty then it could be the dealer changed the TPMS and forgot to tell you?..seems strange...could you clarify for us/me? Something like that happened to a friend of mine but since he didn't have TPMS but rather an inner tube he found that they had lost the valve cap and had replaced it with a much longer one that had a valve core removal tool molded in on the top side.
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I just picked up a set of Conti Road Attack 2...s Price was right, and have had fairly good reviews, so I thought I'd give em a shot. They're not mounted yet, but probably by the end of April, they'll be in action
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You mean a different valve stem after the tire was changed or do you mean just compared to the one in the front?...If the former, then if it was changed at a dealer and the bike is still under warranty then it could be the dealer changed the TPMS and forgot to tell you?..seems strange...could you clarify for us/me? Something like that happened to a friend of mine but since he didn't have TPMS but rather an inner tube he found that they had lost the valve cap and had replaced it with a much longer one that had a valve core removal tool molded in on the top side.
Yes the rear is different than the front now. They use to be the same. My bike is out of warranty now. As I said everything still works so I'm not going to worry about it.
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Tires arrived today. Work is a nightmare- 17 hours Monday, 10 hours Tuesday, have already worked 13 hours today and have to go back. Tomorrow is the same. I think they will be sitting in the corner a long while....
Yay! I took it to Precision Motorcycle. They were really nice. New set of PR4GT finally mounted and balanced. They charged $130 complete. Now the drum roll for mileage on the last set of PR4GT....
18,020 miles!
No tread left was left in the center area at all, but no cords either. Front has slightly more tread than rear. Could probably have gone further on them, but the risk of getting caught in rain is too dangerous. Never had a puncture or air leak. Handling was great the entire time. Plenty of tread left on sides but I am forced to do mostly slab miles around here (takes 30 minutes to get anywhere interesting, so that ends up being 1/2 to 1/4 of most of the short weekend outings I have time for). Didn't develop strange "scalloping" like I had with the OEM (and tires on other bikes I had in the past).
It is no mystery why I decided to go with the PR4GT for a second time.
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I won't run PR4s again, I get pretty bad cupping with them. Looking forward to getting my Bridgestone T30 Evos put in before my trip.
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I won't run PR4s again, I get pretty bad cupping with them.
PR4 or PR4GT? Underinflated? Tons of cornering? Two up?
I had no cupping with PR4GT and I don't recall anyone saying they have had cupping... in my case, I had plenty of side tread, always ran at 42psi, and always one-up (with never-full side bags and no rear luggage).
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PR4 or PR4GT? Underinflated? Tons of cornering? Two up?
I had no cupping with PR4GT and I don't recall anyone saying they have had cupping... in my case, I had plenty of side tread, always ran at 42psi, and always one-up (with never-full side bags and no rear luggage).
I was running GTs front and rear. 42 psi front and rear. No passenger but loaded up with gear. Twisty roads at a good pace. Suspension set as per one of the guides on this site.
I had similar results with PR2s on my VFR. Switched to T30 non evo and had no cupping FWIW.
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Sort of a follow up to my earlier post (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21676.msg270436#msg270436), or rather a continuation on the same theme but different tire.
Cross section of my front tire, an Avon Storm 3D XM after 10,594 miles. There is cupping and a strange asymmetrical wear pattern with more wear on the left side but since
I have a warped rotor on the right side it could be caused from that during heavy front braking.
At slow speed in traffic just trying to stay vertical was a tiring tedious process with the strange wear pattern effecting slow speed steering. I probably went 1000 miles too far on this tire.*
At least this time as per max's suggestion I cut the tire at the wear bar. when you click to get the large photo size, you can see a definite line between rubber types. It's
my guess that when you hit the lighter colored carcass rubber that's around the cords (second photo) you'll be down into the cords pretty quickly.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8CSFfjj/0/de455025/M/i-8CSFfjj-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8CSFfjj/0/de455025/O/i-8CSFfjj.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4qgX2SJ/0/2d0dcb9c/M/i-4qgX2SJ-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4qgX2SJ/0/2d0dcb9c/O/i-4qgX2SJ.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GN2DPJG/1/8c4c0322/M/i-GN2DPJG-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GN2DPJG/1/8c4c0322/O/i-GN2DPJG.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tTqzsVr/0/792df383/L/i-tTqzsVr-L.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tTqzsVr/0/792df383/O/i-tTqzsVr.jpg)
*edit: I just noticed that I actually wore through to the lighter carcass rubber in one spot...eeek!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4RG3rTC/0/547a530b/L/i-4RG3rTC-L.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4RG3rTC/0/547a530b/O/i-4RG3rTC.jpg)
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Yeah, once you hit carcass rubber (as opposed to tread rubber) it'll wear pretty fast.
The tread rubber is formulated to a specific hardness to give the desired wear/grip characteristics.
The carcass rubber is formulated to give good structural strength and tear resistance but won't last long once yer riding on it.
As for the cupping, that is normally indicative of a brake/bearing/suspension-setup issue.
I get cupping on my front PR4s but not bad enough to affect the handling. By the time the tyre is borderline illegal (1.0mm tread depth across 75% of tread width here in the UK) it is already making so much noise when leaned over (due to the cupping) that I WANT to replace it. ;D
Since I get my tyres fitted at the tyre place, and they dispose of the old tyres for me, I've never cut through one.
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As for the cupping, that is normally indicative of a brake/bearing/suspension-setup issue. I get cupping on my front PR4s but not bad enough to affect the handling.
I had horrible cupping on the stock tires, but never had hardly any on the PR4-GT, AND they last twice as long, stick better, and handle rain better, too. Which is why I just had my third set of those mounted last week!
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Yeah, once you hit carcass rubber (as opposed to tread rubber)
"Carcass rubber"...that's the nomenclature I was trying to think of and couldn't...dang old age can be frustrating. Thanks Boomer.
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Recently installed a Dunlop Roadsmart II rear. Will install a front soon.
Handled well in Arkansas last week.
They are supposedly the same compound as the Roadsmart III and about 1/2-2/3 the cost.
Currently you can get a "pair" of these for about $190…
Several in the club are using them now. Good tire for a low price.
Ride safe, Ted
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Mine are in the lineup. Will be replacing the Road smart III's. Not impressed with the longevity of those.
Wayne
Recently installed a Dunlop Roadsmart II rear. Will install a front soon.
Handled well in Arkansas last week.
They are supposedly the same compound as the Roadsmart III and about 1/2-2/3 the cost.
Currently you can get a "pair" of these for about $190…
Several in the club are using them now. Good tire for a low price.
Ride safe, Ted
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Several in the club are using them now.
Are they trailering too? ;D
No I'm not picking on you like I usually do Ted..(If you'll recall I stopped doing that after you brought us those delicious stuffed poppers, in your tow vehicle. )
...but I think I'd use different tires based on cost if I trailered my bike to the good roads.
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I'm kinda rough on them in the Ark. Twisties…
Russ used these and got over 10k, others even better.
I used PR'4's and Avon Spirits and got less than 4k.
Shinko's lasted about 3k but felt really good. {I think because of softer compound}.
I tried this one last weekend, and it felt good.
If I can get 3k, it's a keeper.
Ride safe, Ted
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Martin, what do you use to cut up your tires? I have tried that before and it was a real chore and made a big mess with the side grinder I was using.
Sort of a follow up to my earlier post (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21676.msg270436#msg270436), or rather a continuation on the same theme but different tire.
Cross section of my front tire, an Avon Storm 3D XM after 10,594 miles. There is cupping and a strange asymmetrical wear pattern with more wear on the left side but since
I have a warped rotor on the right side it could be caused from that during heavy front braking.
At slow speed in traffic just trying to stay vertical was a tiring tedious process with the strange wear pattern effecting slow speed steering. I probably went 1000 miles too far on this tire.*
At least this time as per max's suggestion I cut the tire at the wear bar. when you click to get the large photo size, you can see a definite line between rubber types. It's
my guess that when you hit the lighter colored carcass rubber that's around the cords (second photo) you'll be down into the cords pretty quickly.
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8CSFfjj/0/de455025/M/i-8CSFfjj-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-8CSFfjj/0/de455025/O/i-8CSFfjj.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4qgX2SJ/0/2d0dcb9c/M/i-4qgX2SJ-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4qgX2SJ/0/2d0dcb9c/O/i-4qgX2SJ.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GN2DPJG/1/8c4c0322/M/i-GN2DPJG-M.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-GN2DPJG/1/8c4c0322/O/i-GN2DPJG.jpg)
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tTqzsVr/0/792df383/L/i-tTqzsVr-L.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-tTqzsVr/0/792df383/O/i-tTqzsVr.jpg)
*edit: I just noticed that I actually wore through to the lighter carcass rubber in one spot...eeek!
(https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4RG3rTC/0/547a530b/L/i-4RG3rTC-L.jpg) (https://photos.smugmug.com/photos/i-4RG3rTC/0/547a530b/O/i-4RG3rTC.jpg)
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Martin, what do you use to cut up your tires? I have tried that before and it was a real chore and made a big mess with the side grinder I was using.
It is a chore. So far the best way I've found is to squeeze the tire in a vise and then cut it with a reciprocating saw (I use a Sawzall type, I haven't tried a sabre saw). Without the vise the tire grabs the blade and it becomes a shaking mess. After it is sliced off I use a belt sander to get a clean look at the cords and rubber on one end of the sliced off section. You can still see some of the vise marks on the tire in the top photo. I don't have one (yet) but I think a band saw would be the very best option, should be able to get nice straight cuts with that, might not even need sanding.
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It is a chore. So far the best way I've found is to squeeze the tire in a vise and then cut it with a reciprocating saw (I use a Sawzall type
Cut the big steel cords in the bead 1st with bolt cutters, then the rest cuts fairly easy with a sawzall.
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It's nice to see my topic still relevant. ;D
I went with Angel GT (55 profile); I didn't know about the A spec (what does A mean?). I loved them to the end. They keep a good profile for the mountainous and highway riding I do. They were grippy enough to keep up with the sport bikes in my club (providing they weren't abusing their -300lb advantage).
Even now, I remember the first ride I had on these. I was chosen to lead the rally. I remember coming to turns and the bike just dove into the corners like a fish. It was exhilarating! I came to appreciate the 'sport' in sport touring that day.
Looking at tires again, I am leaning heavily to the Angel GT(A); however, the absolute numbers of the PR4 ravers has me curious. Are the profiles of the Angel and PR4's similar? Which is more aggressive? Which would you let your daughter run on her rainy trip through Canada???
Snype
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Which would you let your daughter run on her rainy trip through Canada???
This is the only question of yours that I can answer. Michelin Road 5GT.
Despite my cutting old tires up, that doesn't really give me any clue as to profiles, or I'm just not astute enough to know what I'm looking at.
I'm going on tire hype (https://www.michelin.com/en/documents/the-new-michelin-road-5-gt-tire-the-road-tyre-for-fans-of-motorcycle-touring/) alone and reviews from others that I've talked to as I haven't ridden on my PR5 GTs yet (they are on the shelf).
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I don't ride fast enough or rather leaned over enough to get wear right to the edge of the tire, so I can only speak about travel wear. I get about 1000 miles more
wear out of Avon Storm 3Ds than I do out of Michelin PR4GTs. I get almost the same with Angel GTs (spec A) as the Michelin PR4GTs or maybe only 500 miles less.
Because I'm not a daily rider, but rather a trip rider, I can rarely ride the tires right to their limit. I look at them and decide if they will make it to the end
of the planned trip and replace them if not. The savings I get from changing my own tires makes up for the unused tread wear that I throw away. The Avons
are the only ones so far that I can say I've worn to the limit for sure, and the last 1000 miles the front tire was fairly non-symmetrical to the point that really
slow going in stop and go traffic (never any fun) was a lot more challenging than usual. It didn't seem to have any problems when going over 15-20mph.
I currently have Dunlop Q3 Plus Sportmax tires, although I have no complaints for the ride or feel of them, I was not impressed with the tread depth when brand new.
I have doubts about their abilities in heavy rain. I did ride them through approx 45 minutes of light to moderate rain but mostly straight to gentle highway curves in the
70-80 mph range and had no complaints. I won't be able to say much about their wear as they will be changed to the Michelin Road 5GTs before they wear out for a trip
this summer.
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Shinko 016 Verge 2X Radials!
I was impressed by the Shinkos I tried on my 1800 Goldwing, so I thought I’d give these a try on my new-to-me ‘08 C14.
Only about 700 miles on them so far, but I’m impressed again!
I live near some very nice curves, and I’ve leaned all the way to the edge of the tires, front and rear.
Very confidence inspiring with no surprises.
I used a 55 profile rear, and the excessive inside handlebar pressure to maintain lean in a turn disappeared.
I saved over a hundred dollars vs. big name tires, too!
Scott
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I just installed Mitas Touring Force with 55 on back. I only covered only 150 miles, but the first impressions are excelent!
The motorcycle tilts very well, does not vibrate the handlebars and goes extremely smoothly. I will be back with more impressions after several miles. :chugbeer:
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Michelin Pilot Road 4 for me. Michelin when your life depends on it
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{C-14} I went to the Road Smart II's.
Same compound as the Road Smart III's
Handling is fine, and cost less than $180 a set..
Ride safe, Ted
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shinko apex"s
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x193/vulcan9611/IMG_20200826_143345_01(1).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/vulcan9611/p/58b8c4c8-5ddb-459c-a9d6-cfdb63989309)
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after riding copperhead/northern tennessee
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x193/vulcan9611/62034179383_73404A73_CF72_4338_90B0_6D1EDF4ACC3A(1).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/vulcan9611/p/0327db5b-352a-49f2-93b2-b6ce20433fcd)
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Just ordered a set of Michelin PR4 GT's from Dennis Kirk. Long life from the last set I had.
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I am using Michelin PR5 in the 55 spec GT.
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Bridgestone S22s.
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shinko apex"s
(https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/x193/vulcan9611/IMG_20200826_143345_01(1).jpg?width=1920&height=1080&fit=bounds) (https://app.photobucket.com/u/vulcan9611/p/58b8c4c8-5ddb-459c-a9d6-cfdb63989309)
I'm guessing you don't ride in the rain much. Those look like most "Qualifier" tyres. I've had one experience with Michelin Power Cup (B compound) tyres and whilst they do grip awesomely, they also wear out really fast. I rode a friends ZX12R at a track day and between the ride there, some 60 laps of the track and the ride home (about 450 miles total) the rear tyre was shot. Was fun but turned out to be a really expensive track day once ya added in the tyre.