Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: K_C_M on October 02, 2017, 11:48:23 AM
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Hi Everyone, I have embarked on an ambitious project to bring a Connie back to life (called a GTR100 in the UK). She is a late 94 model and has not moved for at least 2 years, probably more and stored in an open carpark in the lovely British climate. Nothing worked and everything was sized.
I have cleaned, drained refilled and serviced all parts as I work through them and I am now trying to start the motor. I charged the battery, changed the plugs, tested the coils (all OK), put fresh fuel in the tank. At first the bike cranked over and sounded like she wanted to go but never quite fired.
I checked the carbs and seemed no fuel was getting to cyls 2 & 3, so I stripped and refitted the carbs, full rebuild. I re charged the battery showing 12.65 volts but now when I press the starter button I get a click from the starter relay and the Jbox but nothing happens! I also noticed that now the indicators don’t work at all (they worked before I removed the carbs). Headlight working, instrument cluster working, brake lights working, horn working, just no starter and no indicators
Any suggestions where to start fault finding?
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Welcome to the forum. I'd suggest starting with a new battery.
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Tap the Jbox, do you get any lights or starter? Might need a rebuild.
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OK. The battery is not new but holds a charge and I have tried the battery from my brothers Honda Blackbird, but the same result. The Jbox was a refurbished one from Lawrence at Buck Sport Touring who seems to have a good reputation for rebuilding these things.
I was wondering if there might be a problem with the earth, so that a full circuit might not be getting made to the starter, but why would everything else work except the indicators?
Kevin.
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12.65 is not really o k
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You'er right, it was not OK. She was dead, but now she lives. Connie is alive! She’s alive!
I re-charged the battery and tried once more, but with the same result (funny that!), so I unhooked the battery and started dismantling: first the cam chain tensioner (manual after market type), then the alternator and then the starter motor. When taking off the alternator the manual says ‘remove the mounting bolts’ and shows a photo with arrows pointing to 2 bolts. There is in fact a 3rd bolt hidden away deep under the alternator that requires a long 6mm Allen key. That done, getting the starter motor out requires that you have an angled 10mm ring spanner, but don’t undo the bolt all the way or the spanner snags against the oil filler cap just as the bolt comes loose but not out of it hole. The result is that you have to manipulate the bolt with your fingers in a spot you cannot see to turn the bolt back in just far enough to release the spanner!
The starter seemed to have been jammed, but once it was off I applied the battery 12volts to it with jump leads and after the first attempt it sprang into life. So, I lubed everything up, checked the ‘O’ rings were all OK and put all the bits back together.
Now to try again… I had taken the plugs out of cyls 1 & 4 just to make cranking a little easier and also to check that I was getting a spark. I pressed the starter button and … it worked! I had sparks on the plugs for 1 & 4 so I replaced them, re-fitted the tank and tried again. Connie coughed a few times and obviously wanted to start, but after 2+ years of not breathing she was obviously finding it difficult. I sprayed a liberal quantity of BRADEX into the airbox and pressed the button again. This time she coughed and fired. Billowing smoke at the back end from the bradex but with a bit of choke and a gentle hand on the accelerator and she settled down to an idol at about 1100 RPM.
Now her heart is beating, the next move is to adjust and balance the carbs, rebuild the front and rear suspension, refurb and refit the brakes, flush the cooling system and oil and do a full service on everything. That’ll keep me busy for a few more days.
Kevin
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Welcome to the forum, and well done on getting her started after a 2yr+ coma.
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It’s been a few weeks now since the Connie breathed again. So now the attention has moved to the front end. I have a donor set of forks with Race tech gold emulators and a new set of OEM brake disks. The master cyl & calipers are now overhauled and ready to fit and a set of S/S braided brake lines. Pads will be EBC sintered pads. Oh .. and a fork brace.
That all seems straight forward, but should I change the head race bearings and maybe the front wheel bearings before I put this together? Is there anything else I should do at the same time?
What tyres (front &Back) would be a good combo as I might as well get the tyre changed while the wheel is off
PS. Does anyone know of a way to retrofit anti-lock brakes, or a complete front end replacement with anti-lock brakes?
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For sure I would do the front wheel bearings. How many miles on the head stock bearings?
Wayne
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The bike has 98000 miles on the clock. Previous owner has done some work including swapping the engine (no idea of the millage on the motor!). The front wheel is off Ebay and she has stood still in an open carpark for over 2 years.
I think that I should probably get the bearing and replace them before I put the front end on.
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If it was me, I would most definitely do the wheel bearings, as well as the neck bearings.
Good luck with the rest of the build, and please post some pics when she is completed?
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I decided to get the bearings done and sort out the brakes. I had all the bearings delivered for the steering head, the front and back wheels and the swinging arm. I also got new stainless steel hoses, master cyl and caliper service kits for the brakes. So I was set up to get things going!
Getting the front end to pieces was easy and then got everything cleaned up and started on the front wheel bearings. A day later, I was still hammering away at the 1st bearing and there was no movement whatsoever. The next day I spoke to a local bike garage and he said ‘No problem, I’ll have it done in 2 minutes’. I thought he was a bit ambitious, but took the wheel in anyway. Sure enough, 2 minutes later the bearings are laying on the floor! I got him to drift the new bearings in and the job was done. 5 minutes of his time vs 1 day of my time cursing and swearing. Money well spent.
Next job was the steering head bearings. I started with the easy stuff, the top roller bearings came out when I dismantles the steering yoke and a little persuasion was required to take the bottom bearings off the steering stem using a bearing puller. However the outer bearings left in the frame were a different matter. Another whole day of bashing away. After about an hours work the bottom bearing was drifted out with an angled flat bar but the top bearing has such a small lip it was impossible to get any purchase on it at all so I obtained a piece of 1½ inch solid steel bar. Within a few minutes and 6 solid whacks of my hammer the top bearing was out. I drifted the new bearings in using the old bearings. I got the Yoke back on the bike and that was another job done.
The fork legs were drained and dismantled at the beginning of the week and fully dismantled. I rebuilt them with sonic springs and cartridge emulators from race tech, using W15 oil. Assembled the forks and fitted the front wheel. Joy!. She’s starting to look like a bike again.
Front Brakes Next...
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:popcorn: Good read.
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I enjoyed reading this because I am in the process of doing the same thing. My C10 came in pieces. All the plastic was removed an a few things missing. I have had the head off to replace a bent valve replaced the intake cam and rebuilt the carbs. It is running and sounds nice now. I tried to put it into gear and it jumped forward and died. Seems the clutch was stuck. I started it in gear while applying the front brakes and freed up the clutch. Now I can put it into gear without it jumping forward.
I am putting the plastics back on but before I finish up I need to ask a couple questions. On the left side, under the locking compartment, there are two wire connections inside clear rubber insulators. They don't go anywhere. Anyone who can tell me what to do with them. Do they go somewhere or just for future accessories. ? There is another set of wires like them under the seat on The front of the rear fender that also go nowhere.
I'm missing the bracket that holds on the fuse panel. anyone parting out a C10? Also on the batter box there are two Tee Nuts. What are they for ? is there a bracket or top that goes over the battery?
And I a still looking for the drivers right side foot peg and some rear view mirrors.
And finally I have this extra piece that I dont know where it goes.
Please anyone ???
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Please anyone ???
First and second pictures are +12v accessory taps for any light loads (radar, audio, GPS) you might want to add. As I recall, these taps are on all the time, so use caution. Use caution at all times anyway :)
Third pix is where the battery cover / hold down goes. It's kind of necessary, and also has a cheesy tool tray to hold the factory tool kit as well as a stale ham sammich. You can probably cobble a battery hold down out of barbed wire and a gum wrapper. Just keep the battery from bouncing around.
Fourth pic is a baffle that attaches to some bits on the left side of the engine, near the front. It goes under the mid fairing, and helps divert HOT air from the radiator out the mid fairing and off of your shins. Upper bolt attaches to the main frame (I think). Middle bolt attaches to the sub frame (I think), lower bolt attaches (ties into) the small inner fairing/baffle just above the ball of your left foot (I know).
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Hey, thanks a bunch. I found the part in the service manual but it gave no specifics on where it goes or what it does. I will need to pull the fairing again to get it back to where it belongs.
Cant wait to go for my first ride. Friends tell me I am going to love it. But today it's freezing the garage and it snowed 3 inches so it will need to wait till next week.
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Before connecting anything to those leads, check them, the Aux leads are white w/Blk stripe (+ pos), and Black w/Yel stripe (- ground), iirc
as for that rubber duct doo hicky' it mounts on the lower main frame stay, turned 90* from how it's photographed ( vertical)
also, your battery looks to be pretty small, compared to the normal one used and spec'd... I'm thinking it is a sub capacity in comparison by size, most normal ones fill that box pretty fully, side to side, and front to back...
I would cut some styrofoam blocks, and insert them on the sides, and front/rear, to keep the battery centralized, and away from harm..
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Styrofoam blocks...great idea. I will do that.
as for that piece I know where it goes now but I am wondering ...should there be one on the right side as well?
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Styrofoam blocks...great idea. I will do that.
as for that piece I know where it goes now but I am wondering ...should there be one on the right side as well?
Yes.
Their function is to divert most of the hot air from the radiator out the fairing, so the hot air it doesn't end up on your shins. Nothing more, and they are reasonably effective at doing that.
Rick
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FINALLY. I ordered the baffle on ebay before Christmas. It got here yesterday afternoon. I think they sent it pony express. Perfect fit and now the bike is all together. Checked the tires and air in the shock then took off for my very first ride.
SUCKS at slow speed. Wants to die pulling away from stop signs. BUT after quarter throttle....hold onto your hat. what a powerful machine. It screams when you get away from the city streets and traffic.
When I cleaned the carbs two weeks ago they were pristine. All jets clear. What else could cause stutter below quarter throttle? Anyone?
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Also noticed the gas and temperature gauges are not registering anything. Could there be a common fuse for the gauges?
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When you had the carbs out did you install or make sure there are over flow tubes installed on those carbs.
If not you need to read up on Hydro Lock please.
As far as why your having a bogging issue I do not know. Carbs are too complicated for me to elaborate on. Others can chime in that know way more than me.
One thing I do know: Do not get any carb cleaner anywhere near ANY of the rubber parts in those carbs especially the diaphragms.
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SUCKS at slow speed. Wants to die pulling away from stop signs. BUT after quarter throttle....hold onto your hat. what a powerful machine. It screams when you get away from the city streets and traffic.
When I cleaned the carbs two weeks ago they were pristine. All jets clear. What else could cause stutter below quarter throttle? Anyone?
when you cleaned the carbs.... did you dump all the old fuel from the tank, flush the tank and insure there was not gack / spooge / and crusty stuff, or water in it, and then re fill using fresh fuel from a reliably clean or new gascan?
if not, your "pristine" carbs are now back to where they were prior to the labor expended on cleaning them...
I've lost count of how many sets of carbs I've cleaned and setup, and told the owner to "completely clean that tank, dump, flush, repeat", only to have them admit after the bike is started and running, for like a day, before it all of a sudden turned sour, they simply didn't prevent the occurrence from happening. And when they blame the service provided, it kinda makes a man a bit angry, when the cause was lack of following directions.
also, check all of those vacume lines, and rubber cap plugs blocking the unused ports on carbs, make sure they are all intact, and not leaking.
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I started with a clean, empty tank. I removed the petcock and checked the screen. It was all clean when I put it back together. I also installed another inline fuel filter. I emptied the gas can and went to a local station that carried ethanol-free gas. So at this point I don't think it is a fuel cleanliness issue. I am leaning toward a fuel level problem. Is it possible I set the floats too low. Would that cause these symptoms?
Carb guys? Is the slow speed jets get fed from a higher level than the high speed jets?
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I had the same problem. It may have an ignition issue. pull the spark plug connectors and unscrew them, check the wire for green corrosion. If you find it then nip 1/4 inch of wire of to get some fresh stuff. also check the resistance of the connectors, I think they are 5k ohms. Unless I missed you saying that it has coil over plug ( stick coil) conversion. Then forget I wrote this.
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I will look into the ignition after the weather warms up. I have been fighting a bad chest cold for over a week now and i cant bring myself to go out in the cold garage to do anything. If I get this fuel issue solved I think I will have a very nice bike.
All that is missing is the rear view mirrors, the drivers right side foot peg and the saddle bags. I recently found a 1996 model that looks to be in perfect condition with newly rebuild carbs. The owner said it has developed a knock in the engine and will sell it to me for $350.00. I'm thinking that is well worth the price. Just the value of the saddle bags and mirrors i need will equal the price he is asking. What do you think?
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I will look into the ignition after the weather warms up. I have been fighting a bad chest cold for over a week now and i cant bring myself to go out in the cold garage to do anything. If I get this fuel issue solved I think I will have a very nice bike.
All that is missing is the rear view mirrors, the drivers right side foot peg and the saddle bags. I recently found a 1996 model that looks to be in perfect condition with newly rebuild carbs. The owner said it has developed a knock in the engine and will sell it to me for $350.00. I'm thinking that is well worth the price. Just the value of the saddle bags and mirrors i need will equal the price he is asking. What do you think?
Did you buy the parts bike? Sounds like a good deal.
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and will sell it to me for $350.00. I'm thinking that is well worth the price. Just the value of the saddle bags and mirrors i need will equal the price he is asking.
and you need to ask ;)
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Cant beat the deal. I got it for $300 and he is bringing it over while I am writing this. $300 and free delivery.
Meanwhile I have been working on some stalling issue on the bike I am rebuilding. Carbs just dont like colorado gas. The ehtenol just gums them up in no time. I pulled the carbs again and cleaned and reset the floats. Much better now.
https://youtu.be/v_dptRvoiXY
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The only gas I can get Michigan has Ethanol in it. I just add a couple of ounces every tankful and no problems. ;D
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-TC-W3-Outboard-2-Cycle-Oil-1-Gallon (https://www.walmart.com/ip/Super-Tech-TC-W3-Outboard-2-Cycle-Oil-1-Gallon)
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Just this month there is a new gas station about 2 miles from here that has Ethanol free gas.
Its $2.89 a gallon bur worth every penny if it can keep me from having to remove the carbs again.
Murphy Express, 4615 City Centre Rd Firestone CO 80504
And on a happier note. The weather warmed up about noon today so I took a chance an took my bike out for a spin. I didn't go far because it is not registered yet and the tag is from one of my other bikes. But in the the short time I was gone I really like this bike. The cleaning and setting the floats did the trick. The hesitation at the stop sign is gone and it is very responsive to the throttle.
The parts bike I got looks identical to mine. So now I have everything I need to make my stock again and I have a source of spare parts. The tank is better than mine. The mirrors are better than mine and the right drivers foot peg is intact. Its almost a shame to scrap it since it is still a running bike. It starts and is drivable but the guy that sold it to me said the engine is making a foreboding noise.