Author Topic: Pardon my anger...  (Read 9657 times)

Offline gPink

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #20 on: November 28, 2017, 02:38:13 PM »
he he he ... newbie  ;)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #21 on: November 28, 2017, 03:06:54 PM »
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.

Yeah, we had a slight problem in early 2011 and the entire forum was lost :)  Welcome [back]
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #22 on: November 28, 2017, 04:59:35 PM »
Good to see you 'over here' also, Craig.

As you know, I also have been again perusing 'over there' since.... what, the summer? I read often but do not post too much, just really neutral things that I really thing may be of some use to someone. So it is kinda' nice testing both of the waters because not everyone is on both forums (though I think in reality, by far the great majority are, they just log in as guests and do not post at all on one forum). So anyway, it is nice to see old wounds healing, or at least not bleeding anymore :-)   It is like that greatest of all medical news from the Doctor: "It is OK, they make a creme for that now.".

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Brian

Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.
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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2017, 05:18:37 PM »
Thanks, I have had a login here since 2002 (Before Split) and my post count is reset.

 :stirpot: :stirpot: :hitfan: :hitfan: :nuts:

SO, I have to ask, just what the intent was for coming back in here?

 To monitor?

 :hitfan: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

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Offline maxtog

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2017, 05:42:14 PM »
because not everyone is on both forums (though I think in reality, by far the great majority are, they just log in as guests and do not post at all on one forum).

I suspect you might be right about dual citizenship by quite a few people.  I will say that although I have read maybe 3 threads on COG over the last 7 years,  I have never posted there.  Again, not because I have anything against COG, but I was here first and I don't have the time/energy/motivation to be in two forums.  I am lazy enough that this place is enough work to digest!  :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2017, 05:44:24 PM »
SO, I have to ask, just what the intent was for coming back in here? To monitor?

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you

https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/3167.Joseph_Heller
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline kv5e

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2017, 05:45:05 PM »
Good to see you 'over here' also, Craig.

As you know, I also have been again perusing 'over there' since.... what, the summer? I read often but do not post too much, just really neutral things that I really thing may be of some use to someone. So it is kinda' nice testing both of the waters because not everyone is on both forums (though I think in reality, by far the great majority are, they just log in as guests and do not post at all on one forum). So anyway, it is nice to see old wounds healing, or at least not bleeding anymore :-)   It is like that greatest of all medical news from the Doctor: "It is OK, they make a creme for that now.".

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Brian

Yes, schmear it on liberally!

I have been a member here since 2002, but just wanted to drop by because of Master Po's clarion call!

I have posted here on and off over the years and have no ulterior motives, I respect the clarity this forum offers.

All the best to Kirby and maybe I will get see him some day!

Craig

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #27 on: November 28, 2017, 05:56:14 PM »
I still have a set of Fred's CD's but I don't even own a C14 anymore.


I think I sold mine awhile back...and I still own a C14 but it's on the way out.....eventually.
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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #28 on: November 29, 2017, 01:51:50 AM »
The way I see it is that there is a world of difference between an Owners Club that has a Web Presence (which is what tto my eyes COG appears to be) and a Web forum that occasionally has a real world presence (ie sites such as this).


Now personally I've not a big fan of the former (regardless of who it is, not singling any specific group out here) as my experience in the past s that they are normally overly anally retentive about everything.

Generally speaking the latter tend to be more easy going and less up their own arses.



Oh and then of course there are the Facebok only groups where someone has set themselves up as God  but that's a different story ;)



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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 05:37:24 PM »
The way I see it is that there is a world of difference between an Owners Club that has a Web Presence (which is what tto my eyes COG appears to be) and a Web forum that occasionally has a real world presence (ie sites such as this).


Now personally I've not a big fan of the former (regardless of who it is, not singling any specific group out here) as my experience in the past s that they are normally overly anally retentive about everything.

Generally speaking the latter tend to be more easy going and less up their own arses.



Oh and then of course there are the Facebok only groups where someone has set themselves up as God  but that's a different story ;)



How I miss the usenet days

I kind of get what you are saying, but more so the underlying issue with peoples perception is very shallow and limited.. thus a major cause and effect..
Take for instance your case; you show as being here on this forum for 11 months ( I say this not in a berating or disrespectful, just as a time reference). This limits your perception somewhat, unless you go back and read the last 6 years+ of this sites composition. Now, couple that with the fact you probably have no idea why there are "2 Forums", how they all came about, and the history behind them.. this exacerbates both what happens here, and on the COG forum, and the propensity of many of the responses "short term / recently joined" people have, with regard to history. This site, historically, was the ORIGINATING forum, established much further back than the 6 years new folks see as it's "age", and utilized by everyone until COG decided they wanted to add features for monetary transactions to accomplish Club business, and to have "full control" of this website, that was prior, and still operated, by an individual on his own budget...
I think I speak for all of us here, reading this, that we thank him for his tenacity, and persistence in the scheme of things.... he stood fast.
so, with this said, someone who places the blame for his own choices of jumping off a bridge, on someone else, when the person has parted ties with this forum completely (i.e. there is no content here from them at all, assisting folks since the "great divide"), it seems kind of an inappropriate venue for complaint, and the further spread of hateful commentary.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline tjhess74

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2017, 08:15:04 PM »
Thanks for letting me vent, as I feel somewhat better. Days later, however, I'm still shaking my head at this ridiculous nonsense. I think, as a whole, the internet has really brought out the worst in human behavior. In a good vs. evil (metaphorically) struggle, this is one example in a million of the bad chasing off the good. I just can't imagine the hurt that Fred feels, having dedicated so much to the concours collective, only to be run off by unrestrained idiocracy.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2017, 08:36:49 PM »
Text communication, by nature, is often terse and mis-interpreted.  It is the nature of the beast.  With practice, this is usually easy to overcome by wording carefully, providing more detail, adding emoticons, and proof-reading.  We need to not assume the worst and jump to conclusions that something is an attack or was meant to be mean. Trying to give people the benefit of the doubt is a good practice.

But another problem is that some people really are just not polite, civil, or kind on forums, especially when posting "anonymously" or semi-anonymously.  I am not quite sure why that is- to me, people are people, regardless of whether I am sitting in front of them in person, or behind a computer.... regardless of whether I know them or not... regardless of if I post with a real identify or a pseudonym.  I try to treat others as I would like to be treated.  But not everyone is like that- on forums or even in person.

Anyway, those two things together can, unfortunately, cause havoc on forums.

Although we have had some conflicts and a few meltdowns on zggtr.org, overall, it is one of the best forums I have ever seen.... and I have been on a lot of forums over the last zillion years.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #32 on: December 01, 2017, 12:38:57 AM »
ACtually I have a pretty good idea of the history  especially given one of the sticky links on here somewhere ;)

Bloody Politics

Anyways stayng on specifics it doesn't matter which first the chicken or the egg, the result is still something to eat :)

I kind of get what you are saying, but more so the underlying issue with peoples perception is very shallow and limited.. thus a major cause and effect..
Take for instance your case; you show as being here on this forum for 11 months ( I say this not in a berating or disrespectful, just as a time reference). This limits your perception somewhat, unless you go back and read the last 6 years+ of this sites composition. Now, couple that with the fact you probably have no idea why there are "2 Forums", how they all came about, and the history behind them.. this exacerbates both what happens here, and on the COG forum, and the propensity of many of the responses "short term / recently joined" people have, with regard to history. This site, historically, was the ORIGINATING forum, established much further back than the 6 years new folks see as it's "age", and utilized by everyone until COG decided they wanted to add features for monetary transactions to accomplish Club business, and to have "full control" of this website, that was prior, and still operated, by an individual on his own budget...
I think I speak for all of us here, reading this, that we thank him for his tenacity, and persistence in the scheme of things.... he stood fast.
so, with this said, someone who places the blame for his own choices of jumping off a bridge, on someone else, when the person has parted ties with this forum completely (i.e. there is no content here from them at all, assisting folks since the "great divide"), it seems kind of an inappropriate venue for complaint, and the further spread of hateful commentary.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #33 on: December 01, 2017, 01:20:16 AM »
Yeah, that is not it. You have discovered a different conflict  :o

The conflict between Rich (Man of Blues) and Fred really is NOT between Rich and Fred, it just seems that way, even to them probably. But the root cause goes further back and only applies to one of them. And that cause left a raw, bloody and open sore in one of their psyches. The other one came along and it started off with the second one simply occupying a spot the first was <sort of> driven out of. And so the friction began. Really, as I see it, this is nothing more than a perfectly predictable conflict arising out of an initial situation and exacerbated by the personalities involved (not saying anyone is 'bad', just that each has personality facets that are sensitive to this kind of friction). Once the game was in motion, it was merely a matter of time IMO. Sort of like add water, bring to a boil, and you have soup.

There are very predictable human (and maybe even mammal) behaviors that are entirely predictable even though we seem to want to be surprised every single time. For example: 10 people work in a dept, with one [manager, leader, whatever the title] and nine [workers, underlings, again whatever term you like]. For whatever reason, and regardless of any fault or the lack thereof, the lead person is put into the batch of workers, and another worker is selected to be the manager. Maybe after a medical leave of absence, for example. Everyone says they are fine with the arrangement but that is almost certainly a fib on at least one person's part: that person, the one who was demoted, resents it and begins 'sniping' at the new manager, as well as stirring up malice among the rest of the workers. This either continues on an open- ended path, or deteriorates until someone or both parties are forced to leave (forced from outside, or internal emotions, makes no difference). All of which was perfectly predictable. What is amazing about it is that we have seen this for 100,000 years and yet every-time it comes up, we are again surprised because others surrounding the situation think they have done a great job of smoothing things over. But we cannot suppress human (maybe mammal) emotions, and predictable reactions.

There are other conflicts all over the world as well as in forums. Sometimes they are subtle, sometimes obvious. It has always been this way and will always be so IMO.

Further changes will follow, along with conflicting interests and motives mixed in, just to make it fun (that was a sarcastic joke but really the emotion is sadness). Some people want certain things and will be drive to try to get them; some will try to do 'the right thing', others will be driven by ego, and some will be driven by profit. And so it goes, as it has since man settled in the fertile triangle (Easy Boys, not THAT fertile triangle!).

As far as the chicken and the egg thing, sometimes you can even get a song out of it; 'Mother and Child Reunion' was inspired by a chicken and egg dish served at a diner.

Brian

ACtually I have a pretty good idea of the history  especially given one of the sticky links on here somewhere ;)

Bloody Politics

Anyways stayng on specifics it doesn't matter which first the chicken or the egg, the result is still something to eat :)
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #34 on: December 01, 2017, 06:06:44 PM »
Brian,
I was not forced out of my position, I simply resigned as my real paying job was demanding me to work extreme hours, sometimes as much as 80 per week, this combined with my desire to keep my family life functioning, and have a few moments of enjoyment riding places without working on bikes for someone, made me choose.

as for my attitude towards my replacement, I fully supported him from the start, and made no disparaging commentary about their tech, I even considered to assist in his transition and acclimation for a few years.
We differed on some subjects/aspects of tech, but any commentary was done with regard to factual correctness of the tech questions asked.

The only issue I ever had, was the sale of technical advice, as I found it a conflict of interest, based on COG's specific rules. I finally gave up beating this dead horse to the previous Director, as he had no desire to control, or acknowledge the issue, even tho I kept firm in my opinion.
As this forum has absolutely no contributions whatsoever by the other (by his choice as a result of being P/C after the great split), so because of its timeline, there is nothing that can be said about me "forcing anything" here.
And as the other forum has the same timeline, I have actually read back thru every post where I and the other posted in as a combination, and still can't find the mysterious "facts" people have that coincide with the accusations spewed forth, after I simply posted a rule that was obliviously disregarded... which followed up by me defending my post. Simply because someone accuses, it must be true, correct? not.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #35 on: December 01, 2017, 11:43:48 PM »
Well, we are down to semantics. Yes, I agree, you were not forced out of that position but there was an incident that rather made it far more likely you would resign.

But none of that was my point: my point was, and is, that certain things result in certain behavior in any species. Sure, blame can be assigned, but the underlying cause is usually an incident or incidents that rub one's fur the wrong way and things go downhill after that. So again, I am merely saying that it is not the words said on any particular date that is really the cause, it is the thing(s) that happened before, in some cases, long before, that are the real problem.

And I have not accused anyone of misbehaving or even assigned any blame at all whatsoever. Hey, it spun out the way it did and here we are; people getting angry at either one of the group (and it was more than two people as it almost always is, though some contribute to the situation more than others) does no good IMO and merely perpetuates the old 'bad blood' and causes new 'bad blood'.

And I also agree about the 'dogpile' on the forum. But then again, you violated one of the great truths of some forums: 'All members are equal but GOOROO members are FAR, FAR more equal than anyone else. Further, said GOOROOs must not be questioned, corrected, or challenged in any way, regardless of the correctness of those questions, corrections or challenges, because such illustrious beings are far above any such behavior, especially by another mere mortal'. So you stepped on a landmine, regardless of your intentions or even correctness, and that one happened to go off. At least you did not step on the BIG landmine 'cause there would be a crowd with pitchforks and torches outside where you live and they would have carried you off by now.  ::) :o :rotflmao:

But really, everyone will live and everyone will carry on with their lives. Nothing horrible happened or will result. Fred had not been participating much on the forum anyway as far as I could tell, though I do not get the Concourier and so do not know if he was still writing technical articles or not. But COG will carry on, it sounds like Fred is active in the Goldwing community and will spend more time there perhaps. It looks like you will spend some time in the proverbial 'corner' but that too will probably blow over. And besides all that, COG suffered a tremendous loss, in my opinion, when they lost Kirby but they see to have weathered that one OK so this one should be a piece 'o cake.

I really do wish the best to all involved and hope the anger and annoyance fade quickly.

Brian

Brian,
I was not forced out of my position, I simply resigned as my real paying job was demanding me to work extreme hours, sometimes as much as 80 per week, this combined with my desire to keep my family life functioning, and have a few moments of enjoyment riding places without working on bikes for someone, made me choose.

as for my attitude towards my replacement, I fully supported him from the start, and made no disparaging commentary about their tech, I even considered to assist in his transition and acclimation for a few years.
We differed on some subjects/aspects of tech, but any commentary was done with regard to factual correctness of the tech questions asked.

The only issue I ever had, was the sale of technical advice, as I found it a conflict of interest, based on COG's specific rules. I finally gave up beating this dead horse to the previous Director, as he had no desire to control, or acknowledge the issue, even tho I kept firm in my opinion.
As this forum has absolutely no contributions whatsoever by the other (by his choice as a result of being P/C after the great split), so because of its timeline, there is nothing that can be said about me "forcing anything" here.
And as the other forum has the same timeline, I have actually read back thru every post where I and the other posted in as a combination, and still can't find the mysterious "facts" people have that coincide with the accusations spewed forth, after I simply posted a rule that was obliviously disregarded... which followed up by me defending my post. Simply because someone accuses, it must be true, correct? not.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

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Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2017, 02:41:55 AM »
It is at moments like this I am reminded of Sir Humphrey Applebys words from 1987


Quote
It is characteristic of all committee discussions and decisions that every member has a vivid recollection of them and that every member’s recollection of them differs violently from every other member’s recollection. Consequently, we accept the convention that the official decisions are those and only those which have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials, from which it emerges with an elegant inevitability that any decision which has been officially reached will have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials and any decision which is not recorded in the minutes has not been officially reached even if one or more members believe they can recollect it, so in this particular case, if the decision had been officially reached it would have been officially recorded in the minutes by the officials, and it isn’t so it wasn’t.

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Offline sanmo

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2017, 05:58:02 AM »
I suggest a Brexit from this thread...... :popcorn:
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2017, 07:51:34 PM »
No
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Offline sanmo

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Re: Pardon my anger...
« Reply #39 on: December 03, 2017, 08:17:26 AM »
+1
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