Author Topic: dead start button  (Read 5949 times)

Offline arsprod

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dead start button
« on: October 08, 2011, 04:44:07 PM »
I'm helping a friend reassemble his '86 Concours. Well, truth be told I disassembled it! We pulled the carbs off about six months ago to have the overflow mod done. He's just gotten around to getting it back together. To aid getting the throttle cables back on I took off the right-side switch cluster. After getting the carbs back on and everthing hooked up including gas tank, I went to hit the start button and nothing. All the electrics work (lights, horn, etc) and I can hear a relay click near the Jbox when the key's turned on.

I can only assume I did something to the starter switch but can't figure out what it might be. I tried jumping the contacts in the switch, no luck. Is there some kind of weird grounding to the handlebar? Something else hinky with the switch? I'd love to find something easy before tracing back the wiring. Thanks!

Aaron

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #1 on: October 08, 2011, 05:38:21 PM »
This should help......
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #2 on: October 08, 2011, 05:58:24 PM »
possibly after it sat for 6 months, the battery is dead?

 ???

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #3 on: October 08, 2011, 06:57:29 PM »
don't think battery is dead - been on a charger the whole time.

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2011, 07:01:24 PM »
This should help......

Thanks! Is it ok to jump the starter relay?

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #5 on: October 08, 2011, 07:13:31 PM »
Yes.
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline GeeBeav

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #6 on: October 09, 2011, 10:20:38 AM »
don't think battery is dead -

Have you checked it?

Quote
been on a charger the whole time.

6 months?  :o
In the days of my youth, I was told what it means to be a man.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #7 on: October 09, 2011, 01:48:12 PM »
don't think battery is dead - been on a charger the whole time.

charger or battery tender?  big difference....if it was a charger you cooked that battery....

you need to do a check on it before doing anything else.
If it worked prior to disassembly, and sat 6 months, it's not likely a gremlin snuck in and changed something on it's own...do the simple stuff first.
I see you have just arrived here, please understand we diagnose this stuff everyday, and it isnt easy to diagnose things like this over the net....there are a lot of people here that have seen it all, so pleas, listen to the cumulative voices of experience on this bike. ;)

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #8 on: October 09, 2011, 02:04:02 PM »
To echo MOB here I have seen first hand the freshly installed battery on my 01 go DOA at a mere 6 weeks old with 4 of those weeks on a battery tender (that is still in use today. First things first check your battery voltage and if it is not well over 12 volts stop right there and charge or replace the battery with a well charged one. If you do not have a meter again stop what your doing and get one as without you will have no clue as to what's ailing the bike. Follow the instruction on the word document that I posted with it and this forum you can easily get to the bottom of this issue but ya got to follow instructions and have a meter.
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #9 on: October 09, 2011, 02:49:49 PM »
understood and I should have been more clear - it was on a tender... but you got me thinking! I don't know if the owner's kept water in the battery and emailed him about it. I've seen dry batteries burn up even on a tender. What throws me is all the other electrics work - lights, horn, signals, etc. There's not even a click when start button is pushed. I'm gonna try to get back over to his house later this week and try to jump from my bike after I bypass starter button. Thanks!

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #10 on: October 09, 2011, 02:55:57 PM »
precisly..
an 86 will/should have had a few batt replacements in its life, and without knowing the state or age of the existing batt, or even if it had water in it, it's a coin flip...
there is easily enough juice in a marginal or bad batt to give you lights, and horn...but not enough to crank it...it will still actuate the relays, and solenoid, but choke when expected to offer the amps required to turn the starter....


don't bypass or circumvent anything at this point, get a battery and try it, or jump it, don't add another variable, or risk damaging things by going out of progression to anylize the system as it exists....you will be adding variables making it harder to find root cause. Un plug and replug in the harness, make sure it's connected, try the steps in progression to find what is actually wrong

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2011, 03:04:53 PM »
exactly - that's why I suspect something else, button push does nothing, zilch, nada. I did pull the switch apart looked like the little copper contacts were worn but no gone

Offline Silver Connie

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #12 on: October 10, 2011, 08:05:58 PM »
when my bike did this it turn out it was the clutch lever sensor.  of course i didnt find this out until several stater button dissassemblies, cleanings and replacement.

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #13 on: October 10, 2011, 08:16:29 PM »
when my bike did this it turn out it was the clutch lever sensor.  of course i didnt find this out until several stater button dissassemblies, cleanings and replacement.

Is the sensor in the lever assembly?

Offline T Cro ®

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2011, 08:43:29 AM »
Is the sensor in the lever assembly?

I'm guessing that your lost right? There is a 2-way micro switch in the clutch lever assembly that functions as the safety interlock that keeps you from starting the bike in gear unless the clutch lever is pulled to the bar. If the bike is in neutral then you don't have to pull the clutch lever. Also if the kill switch on the right bar is thrown the starter will not work.

Look at the drawing and directions I provided earlier read them together like a 1, 2 , 3 road map and you will find the problem in short order.
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2011, 01:50:34 PM »
lost? right! I'd gotten my hopes up about the clutch switch - the bike's in neutral and I had hoped it was the clutch switch. time to work the diagram!

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2011, 06:08:55 PM »
ok gents, got it started... but not totally sure how! Working back from the switch, I verified that the start button and kill switch were fine. This bike's has had some 'creative' rewiring so following back to the starter was a challenge. I also verified the starter and relay worked - jumped the relay and got starter to go.

When I first tested the starter button to relay I wasn't getting anything. Just as a goof I pulled in the clutch (bike was in neutral) and got nothing until rocking the shifter up and down - voila, complete circuit. Put all back together and it started. There's obviously something goofy with the neutral safety switch. It wants to be in neutral and clutch in. I'm assuming this isn't normal. Is there an easy way to disable the shifter switch?

Offline arsprod

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2011, 08:24:28 PM »
OK guys, I'm back! I should probably start another thread, but this is getting embarrasing! Does anyone have a picture or diagram of the carb hose layout? I took pictures before disassembling, but I'm a little lost.

The PO added cruise control, so I was really deliberate about taking pics of the vacuum hoses. I know there are also two vent hoses that basically hang loose. However, the vacuum hose 'harness' that the PO made seems to leave one carb with a lone hose that goes nowhere. There are two ports on the petcock - one is obviously for the fuel. Does the other get a vacuum line to enable the fuel flow?


Offline T Cro ®

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #18 on: October 23, 2011, 08:29:12 PM »
Yes te fuel cock needs vacuum to open; so the smaller port gets the vac line.
Tony P. Crochet
(SOLD) 01 Concours Winner of COG Most Modified in 2010

Offline Consuelofan

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Re: dead start button
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2011, 07:36:22 PM »
Hi Folks!   First time on here - looks like a great place to go!    Had this starter problem on my '99 Connie two summers ago.   In my case the kickstand plunger was simply dirty.  You gotta love simple fixes!!   Ride on!