Author Topic: Newbie with some modding questions.  (Read 7380 times)

Offline RexRyder

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Newbie with some modding questions.
« on: January 23, 2014, 02:41:03 PM »
Hi everyone, I'm planning on doing some mod's to my new Concours and have some questions.  My bike is an 09 Concours 14 ABS and I'm planning to add a K&N air filter and a Two Brothers VALE slip-on.  After reading the posts about power commander and removing the butterflies vs. Guhl re-flash, I've decided to go the re-flash option, and that's where my questions start.  I purchased a used ECU for my bike thinking that I would send it out for re-flash, that way I wouldn't be so paranoid about it getting lost or damaged in the mail and I could still ride my bike in the mean time.  Then I read a post stating this "Furthermore, you need the KDS3 tool to replace the ECU because it has to be "registered" into the system, and the Kawasaki dealers are the only ones with the KDS3 tool."  So now I'm wondering if the Dealer is going to give me heartburn if I try to have an extra ECU setup to work on my bike?  Have any of you done this before?  And then my other question is about the re-flash itself, I know it will open the butterflies sooner, but will it also be customized for my combo......air filter and pipe?  I appreciate any info anyone can give.  Thanks, Brian

Offline maxtog

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2014, 02:57:30 PM »
Hi everyone, I'm planning on doing some mod's to my new Concours and have some questions.

Welcome!

Quote
My bike is an 09 Concours 14 ABS and I'm planning to add a K&N air filter and a Two Brothers VALE slip-on.  After reading the posts about power commander and removing the butterflies vs. Guhl re-flash, I've decided to go the re-flash option, and that's where my questions start.  I purchased a used ECU for my bike thinking that I would send it out for re-flash, that way I wouldn't be so paranoid about it getting lost or damaged in the mail and I could still ride my bike in the mean time.

I think that is probably an over-reaction to a very small risk.  Just make sure it is insured when shipping and use a good carrier.

Quote
Then I read a post stating this "Furthermore, you need the KDS3 tool to replace the ECU because it has to be "registered" into the system, and the Kawasaki dealers are the only ones with the KDS3 tool."  So now I'm wondering if the Dealer is going to give me heartburn if I try to have an extra ECU setup to work on my bike?

Not sure.  But you can't just swap ECU's...  if nothing else, KIPASS will not work and neither will the pressure sensors.   And a dealer will charge you a pretty penny for that programming.  If you are asking if two ECU's can be identical in that regard, I would say "probably".  If you are that averse to the risk and want more options, go for a PC instead.

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Have any of you done this before?

Not that I have ever heard.  This would be something very improbable

Quote
And then my other question is about the re-flash itself, I know it will open the butterflies sooner, but will it also be customized for my combo......air filter and pipe?

It can be, but realize that it is not a "pipe", it is just a muffler swap.  Replacing just the muffler [silencer] and filter will make so little difference in performance, it won't really matter.  It is a move to make more or different noise/sound, change the appearance, and reduce weight.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline RexRyder

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2014, 03:32:20 PM »
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I already bought a 2nd ECU on e-bay for a pretty good price.  Aside from worries about shipping I also wanted to have another ECU in stock configuration, that way I could just put the stock ECU back in when needing dealer service.....that was my idea anyway.

Offline gPink

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2014, 03:40:37 PM »
The KDS 3 can be purchased if you want to be dealer free. A couple of the guys around here have gone that route. Here is a bit of info.....

Offline maxtog

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2014, 04:02:27 PM »
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately I already bought a 2nd ECU on e-bay for a pretty good price.  Aside from worries about shipping I also wanted to have another ECU in stock configuration, that way I could just put the stock ECU back in when needing dealer service.....that was my idea anyway.

I am fairly sure that the tools the dealers use not only can't change any of the maps but also cannot detect that the maps have been changed.  So that shouldn't be any concern.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2014, 04:06:50 PM »
The KDS 3 can be purchased if you want to be dealer free. A couple of the guys around here have gone that route. Here is a bit of info.....

Kawasaki will sell KDS 3 to a non-dealer??
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2014, 04:25:00 PM »
Why not?
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2014, 05:23:53 PM »
Why not?

I would expect they want to "protect" their dealer's ability to charge high prices for things like programming sensors and keys.  If not just dealers, then at least to only shops.... they might be required by law to make it available to third party shops (I seem to remember reading something about that in regards to car systems).

A side annoyance which is somewhat related- they won't sell the service manual in PDF form... although the dealers have access to it for their own use.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline gPink

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #9 on: January 23, 2014, 06:30:42 PM »
Ah..must be official if it's on ebay... ;)

I would expect they want to "protect" their dealer's ability to charge high prices for things like programming sensors and keys.  If not just dealers, then at least to only shops.... they might be required by law to make it available to third party shops (I seem to remember reading something about that in regards to car systems).

A side annoyance which is somewhat related- they won't sell the service manual in PDF form... although the dealers have access to it for their own use.

One would think so but as in all things Kwak...they are an enigma.
 
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline gPink

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2014, 06:39:45 PM »
Ah..must be official if it's on ebay... ;)

One would think so but as in all things Kwak...they are an enigma.
If ebay makes it official, might be able to find a pdf service manual if you look around.  :)

Offline maxtog

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2014, 10:08:29 PM »
If ebay makes it official, might be able to find a pdf service manual if you look around.  :)

No, Ebay often makes it "illegal" not "official".
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Rembrant

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2014, 01:48:52 PM »
The KDS V3 diagnostics kit was at one time available over the counter to the general public. It is my understanding now that it is not. The kits are popping up on Ebay from time to time...anywhere from $300 to $700 depending on how complete they are. Because of all the dealerships that closed during or after the recession, or shops that have dual kits that are redundant, they are popping up for sale. I don't believe that they are 'illegal' to own...it's just that they are NLA to the public AFAIK.

I have a complete KDS V3 kit myself, and I have purchased accessory KDS cables at my local dealer without any issues. However, I have read reports of guys trying to buy the KDS Adapters from the dealers, and being told that they are not available.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2014, 01:55:57 PM »
It's in Ron Ayers online catalog.

Offline Rembrant

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #14 on: January 24, 2014, 02:06:27 PM »
It's in Ron Ayers online catalog.

Oh cool. I've never actually checked myself...I was just told that they're not available. If they are, they are;).
“If you're not a liberal at twenty you have no heart, if you're not a conservative at forty you have no brain.” ~ Winston Churchill.

Offline gPink

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #15 on: January 24, 2014, 02:29:46 PM »
Just saw them listed didn't try to check out.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Newbie with some modding questions.
« Reply #16 on: January 24, 2014, 04:42:29 PM »
Because of all the dealerships that closed during or after the recession, or shops that have dual kits that are redundant, they are popping up for sale. I don't believe that they are 'illegal' to own...it's just that they are NLA to the public AFAIK.

No, it wouldn't be illegal to buy/own/properly sell the KDS (unless it was cloned/copied/etc in some way)... I was referring to the purchase/owning/selling the PDF of the factory manual in his posting.  That is illegal any way you look at it (criminal copyright infringement).  Of course, it is not really "wrong" to have it if you bought the actual/legit paper manual, but that is a different matter.

NDAs  (non disclosure) and/or EULAs (end user license agreements) as would be the case with KDS, can't lead to "illegalness" in any way shape or form.... but disobeying them could lead to *civil* action [lawsuits] which may or may not be successful/enforcible.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/End-user_license_agreement
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc