Author Topic: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?  (Read 16384 times)

Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2011, 07:49:26 AM »
I understand that it might do it in cold weather however my 09 came on in the mornings in SUMMER.  I finally got it in to be replaced and even in the cold winter weather they don't come on.  Never had an issue with the rear one since it was replaced a week after I bought the bike (never worked).  Not all of them should do it in cold weather, and I would understand if it was REALLY cold but c'mon, ive had them come on at 50+ degrees, which tells me its an issue that will vary sensor to sensor.
It varies with your riding habits: frequency and duration and with your parking location (heated vs non heated garage, etc. At 60,000 miles mine have stopped doing it. It could be because the batteries have aged but it could also be because I am now riding more.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #21 on: December 27, 2011, 08:06:31 AM »
Previous discussion on the Tire Pressure Monitoring System...

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=680.0
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Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #22 on: December 27, 2011, 08:08:38 AM »
Uninstalling the rear wheel, demounting the tire, removing a sensor, installing a sensor, syncing the sensor, remounting a tire, testing the sensor, re-balancing the wheel, and remounting the wheel is a pretty major operation.... and impossible without all the right tools, most of which are far outside the reach of normal people (Tire balancer?  ECU programming?).

I certainly do not have to replace MY rear tire every rear, much less multiple times a year.  Personally, I think the design is a bit insane.  I keep thinking that, certainly, something could have been designed to charge the batteries (or use no batteries) from the available kinetic energy.
I have heard that the TPS device is the same one as used in Goldwings. They may also have the problem but if they did I think we would have heard about it. I think Honda probably just came up with a better way of handling the voltage info transmitted by the TPS.

It seems foolish to display "low Battery" info if the battery is not user replaceable anyway. But it is even worse to display false info.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #23 on: December 27, 2011, 09:03:02 AM »
It seems foolish to display "low Battery" info if the battery is not user replaceable anyway. But it is even worse to display false info.

Well, not really.  It indicates what the problem actually is.  Far better than displaying something like "TPS Fault".  They have to display SOMETHING to let the user know why there is no reading.  Like others, I think they least they should do would be to program a delay so the warning is deferred a bit until it is sure it is not just temporary.  Hell, the bike KNOWS what the ambient temp is, it could even use that in the decision making process.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Mister Tee

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #24 on: December 27, 2011, 10:18:11 AM »
Arrrrgh, it just happened to me this morning on the way in to work.  Temperature was 28 degrees.  Reset itself after the tires warmed up (10 minutes or so.)

I don't really have a problem with a warning being displayed, but just like the low fuel warning, it completely takes over the display, to the exclusion of other useful information.  I wish they would just tone it down.

Offline jjsC6

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #25 on: December 27, 2011, 11:44:25 AM »
Uninstalling the rear wheel, demounting the tire, removing a sensor, installing a sensor, syncing the sensor, remounting a tire, testing the sensor, re-balancing the wheel, and remounting the wheel is a pretty major operation.... and impossible without all the right tools, most of which are far outside the reach of normal people (Tire balancer?  ECU programming?).

Well, you've just described the process for putting a new tire on a bike.  Once you have done that, taking the sensor out is a piece of cake.  I do understand the programming issue.

Quote
I certainly do not have to replace MY rear tire every rear, much less multiple times a year.  Personally, I think the design is a bit insane.  I keep thinking that, certainly, something could have been designed to charge the batteries (or use no batteries) from the available kinetic energy.

Okay, I can't argue that you don't have to replace your tire every year except to give you a good natured hard time about not riding the bike enough.

I'm not sure how you can say that the design is insane.  The design itself is no different than what is being used in many, many millions of vehicles.  The difference is that Kawasaki is obviously using an inferior battery.  I've owned many cars with TPMS that use a similar design but have never had to be replaced.  I also seldom see people post about them being a problem in the Goldwing forum, even though mine did require a replacement at a little over 2 years (replaced under warranty).

While I don't like the idea of replacing them, I understand that they are a "wear" component of the vehicle much like many other components are.  Yes, it should last longer, but then again it does fall under the three year warranty.
Jim
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Offline maxtog

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #26 on: December 27, 2011, 12:36:06 PM »
I'm not sure how you can say that the design is insane.  The design itself is no different than what is being used in many, many millions of vehicles.  The difference is that Kawasaki is obviously using an inferior battery.  I've owned many cars with TPMS that use a similar design but have never had to be replaced.

Yeah, I suppose the battery just not lasting is the biggest design flaw.  Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a lithium battery design last for 7+ years.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline jjsC6

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #27 on: December 27, 2011, 04:59:48 PM »
Yeah, I suppose the battery just not lasting is the biggest design flaw.  Shouldn't be too much of a stretch to have a lithium battery design last for 7+ years.

We can both agree on that.  I think they went low-bid on the batteries.
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
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2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #28 on: December 28, 2011, 10:02:25 AM »
 :banghead:
Nothing worse than having your balls go missing.

Offline CrashGordon

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #29 on: December 28, 2011, 11:06:07 AM »
I just deal with it. Mine's been doing it since the first winter I had the bike. Always goes away in summer and always comes back when the temps get below 40.

I personally don't see the need for the warning. Since the batteries weren't designed to be user replaceable anyway, why not just let them go until they won't transmit any longer. So as soon as you see the "--" instead of tire pressure, you know it's time to get them replaced (with a statement in the manual directing as such). Then you can hash out with your dealer whether you think it pooped out too soon and should be replaced under warranty.

Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #30 on: December 28, 2011, 11:40:33 AM »
I just deal with it. Mine's been doing it since the first winter I had the bike. Always goes away in summer and always comes back when the temps get below 40.

I personally don't see the need for the warning. Since the batteries weren't designed to be user replaceable anyway, why not just let them go until they won't transmit any longer. So as soon as you see the "--" instead of tire pressure, you know it's time to get them replaced (with a statement in the manual directing as such). Then you can hash out with your dealer whether you think it pooped out too soon and should be replaced under warranty.
Exactly. No warning at all is better than a false warning. If it took longer to see numbers instead of -- whenever it was cold we would just get used to it and think nothing of it. Most of us anyway
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #31 on: December 31, 2011, 02:28:12 PM »
My 08 gave the warning this morning at 30 degrees.  The rear was replaced when I bought the bike in May.  I'll take a picture and we'll see how this warranty thing works.

Offline okxd45

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #32 on: December 31, 2011, 02:55:51 PM »
I bought my 09' inn Feb 11.  My dealer would not replace the TPS until it completely stopped working; which was a couple of months later. Now my front one is starting the warning. Hopefully it will be completely dead before too long. ;)
Jeff
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Offline sycamoredave

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #33 on: January 01, 2012, 05:46:26 AM »
I get your frustration, but if you have a flat tire just before entering a series of really nice curves, that tire gauge sitting on your workbench at home won't give you much warning.

BTW, I'd be willing on betting that replacing a sensor is no more than putting a new rear tire on the bike - and I don't know  about you, but I do that a couple of times a year.  Do you think Kawasaki should be covering that?

I honestly don't get the benefit here, especially for the cost/hassle factor.  The only times I have had road bike flats, I knew it immediately.  The TPS would not have been any help at all, kind of like the tornado warning siren after the tornado has already been through.  While my TPS was working, I never had a warning until the unit started to go bad.  I have now ridden thousands of miles without it, including both daily commutes and long tours, and do not miss it.  Have you priced new units?  Crazy!  I wish they had put the money they wasted on TPS into a better seat, better windscreen, or even heated grips.

BTW - My tire gauge always rides with me, and does not sit on the bench.

Ride safe ... 8)
Dave

Offline maxtog

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #34 on: January 01, 2012, 06:36:29 AM »
I honestly don't get the benefit here, especially for the cost/hassle factor.  The only times I have had road bike flats, I knew it immediately.  The TPS would not have been any help at all, kind of like the tornado warning siren after the tornado has already been through.  While my TPS was working, I never had a warning until the unit started to go bad.  I have now ridden thousands of miles without it, including both daily commutes and long tours, and do not miss it. 

I will explain where he was going.  You are correct that the TPS is not going to help with a fast leak.  But many leaks are not the fast kind.... He is saying, by being able to monitor your pressure while riding, you can catch a low/slow leak and be warned before it becomes dangerous.  I have ridden bikes for many thousands of miles for over a decade and I have never had a leak or flat of any kind (knock on wood), but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to know the feature is there and working :)

It is also convenient to be able to look at your pressures at the start of a trip, without having to spend a lot of time checking them manually, to make sure you will get the best gas mileage, performance, and prevent tire damage.  Would be nice if we could do that BEFORE moving, but at least I know quickly enough that I am still on my block and can go right back home to fix the issue.

It is a shame that Kawasaki didn't spec the unit to use a battery that would last much longer.   That is where most of the hassle and expense come into play.   $1 or $2 more lithium probably could have doubled the service life.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #35 on: January 01, 2012, 07:26:52 AM »
I will explain where he was going.  You are correct that the TPS is not going to help with a fast leak.  But many leaks are not the fast kind.... He is saying, by being able to monitor your pressure while riding, you can catch a low/slow leak and be warned before it becomes dangerous.  I have ridden bikes for many thousands of miles for over a decade and I have never had a leak or flat of any kind (knock on wood), but that doesn't mean it isn't nice to know the feature is there and working :)

It is also convenient to be able to look at your pressures at the start of a trip, without having to spend a lot of time checking them manually, to make sure you will get the best gas mileage, performance, and prevent tire damage.  Would be nice if we could do that BEFORE moving, but at least I know quickly enough that I am still on my block and can go right back home to fix the issue.

It is a shame that Kawasaki didn't spec the unit to use a battery that would last much longer.   That is where most of the hassle and expense come into play.   $1 or $2 more lithium probably could have doubled the service life.
This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me. There is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the computer programming that falsely gives a low battery warning that is the problem.  The battery is designed to go dormant when the bike is parked and wake up when it is in motion. Mine continues to do just that after 4.5 years and 65,000 miles. Where else will you find a coin size, non rechaheable battery that will last for 5 years of 2 to 8 hours of daily, constant use?.

As for the TPS concept itself, I have been save from being stranded twice, once while 400 miles from home on a trip in the middle of nowhere. Both times I got the alert in time to get to a service station where repairs could be safely and easily made. A third time I was 5 miles from home and knew the leak was slow enough I could ride home safely. A great featue in my opinion. When I ride my other bikes I miss the TPS.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #36 on: January 01, 2012, 10:45:00 AM »
This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me...

Really?  ;)
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Offline rcannon409

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #37 on: January 01, 2012, 04:14:29 PM »
Lather, I did read where tps sensors do go dormant and "wake up" only when a reading is due.  My question would be why is it only oen sensor that shows a battery warning?   I know you cannot answer this exactly, but it woudl feel better if both were giving low readings.

Offline sycamoredave

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #38 on: January 01, 2012, 04:30:12 PM »
This will make about 10 times I have posted this. I guess everbody thinks I am a dolt and ignores me. There is nothing wrong with the battery. It is the computer programming that falsely gives a low battery warning that is the problem.  The battery is designed to go dormant when the bike is parked and wake up when it is in motion. Mine continues to do just that after 4.5 years and 65,000 miles. Where else will you find a coin size, non rechaheable battery that will last for 5 years of 2 to 8 hours of daily, constant use?.

As for the TPS concept itself, I have been save from being stranded twice, once while 400 miles from home on a trip in the middle of nowhere. Both times I got the alert in time to get to a service station where repairs could be safely and easily made. A third time I was 5 miles from home and knew the leak was slow enough I could ride home safely. A great featue in my opinion. When I ride my other bikes I miss the TPS.

Dude - you don't have to explain anything to me, and I really don't need a lecture.  I get it , I just disagree.  The feature is not worth the cost, as designed is unreliable, and clearly not worth the hassle. 

Dave

Ride safe

Offline lather

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Re: TPS low battery in cold weather- take to dealer?
« Reply #39 on: January 01, 2012, 04:59:21 PM »
Lather, I did read where tps sensors do go dormant and "wake up" only when a reading is due.  My question would be why is it only oen sensor that shows a battery warning?   I know you cannot answer this exactly, but it woudl feel better if both were giving low readings.
That IS a good question and I don't have an answer or even a guess. For one winter both of mine gave the warning. The next winter only the front. I
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