Author Topic: I will not run away  (Read 17211 times)

Offline Necron99

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #40 on: December 17, 2012, 05:09:21 PM »
I find it funnny the people who say arming teachers will make the problem worse are the same who advocate putting an aemed cop in the school....

They have the mistaken believe that police are trained with some amazing frequency.  Most officers fire their weapon only when they need to re-qualify.  Sometimes that's not even every year.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
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Offline booger

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #41 on: December 17, 2012, 05:52:16 PM »
(a fair share owned by me :D). 

Snibbor, I don't think you understand.  I own a lot of guns.  Probably what some libs would call an arsena.  But I'm still not even close to my fair share.  Wife thinks differently.

Offline jim_de_hunter

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #42 on: December 17, 2012, 07:13:40 PM »
  Jim, you have more to offer on this than any of the rest of us, as you're in the classroom daily (I assume). I'd really like to hear any other thoughts you have on this, what you've had to come to grips with internally knowing you are "the front line" etc... and TIA -  - steve


Well, it's pretty simple really.  If there is someone harming the kids I will continue to attack the harmer until one of us is neutralized.  (From what I've read about Sandy Hook, it's the action the Principal took until she was shot.)  Our wonderful lawmakers will have me, literally, going to a gun fight with a broom stick. 


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Offline Snibbor

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #43 on: December 17, 2012, 08:19:55 PM »
Snibbor, I don't think you understand.  I own a lot of guns.  Probably what some libs would call an arsena.  But I'm still not even close to my fair share.  Wife thinks differently.

oh don't misunderstand me, guns are like money, there's no such thing having too many
already planning my next purchase, while we still can.........

Offline ARS

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2012, 08:55:22 PM »
You don't want the trained teachers carrying openly.  You need for them to have the element of surprise against any would be attacker.  For a would be attacker that might know the school (or whatever the target may be), you would not want him or her to know who is carrying and to look for.  Eventhough as crazy as these people that carry out these acts are, in my mind they have one goal and are not real organized.  They set out to accomplish what they may think is right and that is it.  So having that element of surprise of having concealed carrying faculty is much better than open carry or even a uniformed security or resource officer.

I don’t agree.  I believe the deterrent of visible weapon is much more important than the “surprise”.  Prevention rather than reaction.
30 plus years ago in a small town in northern Wisconsin my buddies and I were allowed carry our 22’s & shotguns into the school and store them in our lockers (cased an unloaded of course) so we could hit the neighboring woods after school and chase rabbits, squirrels, and grouse.  Some of them brought them on the school bus and refinished their stocks in shop class.  There was never an incident, never a shot fired. . .ever!  We were raised in an era where we learned how to safely handle guns at a young age and we learned through experience all too well the damage these tools could do.
You can’t carry a nail clipper into a school these days.  What has changed since then?   I don’t have the answer, but I can say for certain we did respect our teachers, parents and all other adults.  For every pound of respect there’s an ounce of fear.  My Father never laid a hand on me, he didn’t have to. . .he was a man, I was a boy and I knew it.  Too many Dads want to be their kids’ buddies these days which is a big difference than being their Fathers.  So I say Man Up and get your kids out in the woods because as the bumper sticker said, “Little boys that hunt fish and camp don’t grow up to rob old ladies”.
Great posts everyone and hey we’re all not going to agree on a solution(s) guns/no guns, spanking/no spanking etc. but it’s encouraging to see we’re not jaded to the violence and have the need to speak up if for no other reason to try make sense out of something the is incomprehensible and to heal our own sorrows cause by this horrible act.

Offline zsiska

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #45 on: December 18, 2012, 04:20:18 AM »
I don’t agree.  I believe the deterrent of visible weapon is much more important than the “surprise”.  Prevention rather than reaction.

The reason I say that they should carry hidden and have the element of surprise is because the majority of these people that carry out these acts are crazy.  They are so crazy that in my mind they don't care if there is the visible deterrent of weapons.  Do you really think the sh^thead in Connecticut would have cared if there was an armed guard?  Nope because he was nuts.  He had one thing on his mind and that was carrying out his senseless act no matter what.  He knew the school somewhat and had he known that there was weapons and where they were, would he have been gunning for them first.  Possibly.  We don't know.  But lets say the nurse (I believe) who said he walked in, looked at her as she dove under the desk, and then turned and walked away had been carrying,  she could have possibly stopped the threat at the very start of it.  That is why I think it should be concealed.  4 or 5 teachers, lunch ladies, janitors or whoever trained in each school to be able to respond the best they can until authorities can get there.  If I were an employee at a school, I woudl be more than willing to pay for my own training and school approved weapon to be one of the carrying members.  Especially when I think about what is at stake.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #46 on: December 18, 2012, 09:09:51 AM »
Zak - sorry, I disagree that this coward would have done the same thing if he knew there were openly carried guns there  Let me point this out - have you ever heard of one of these loons going to a shooting range and taking on the shooters there? No. Why? Because he knows his mayhem is going to be addressed rapidly.

  I  do agree concealed carry is the way to go in schools. "out of sight, out of mind" for the students and faculty, and a shooter has no idea who will engage him - EVERYONE could be the threat to him, not just the OCer.

  Let's keep in mind one thing we've seen with aLL of these shootings - mentall Ill, but INTELLIGENT. That means they can really think through these attacks, and plan for their best "success" . Getting shot early on in your rampage doesn't make you a very successful mass murderer, and these guys are intelligent enough to see that. THAT's why they go to "gun free zones".

  We need to get inside their twisted brains - to beat your enemy, you must understand him.  Steve

Offline Leo

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #47 on: December 18, 2012, 09:44:46 AM »
As an 8 time participant in the Highpower Rifle National Championships at Camp Perry, Ohio, I had some pictures on my wall of the events.  Several people without that background actually asked "didn't you feel unsafe around all those guns!"    My reply, why would I?  I am shoulder to shoulder with 1400 of the finest marksmen that the military, prior military, law enforcement and law abiding civilian ranks can offer.  Anything short of an invasion by a foregin country would simply be a minor delay.  And that invading army better have 10 to one advantage if they want a chance.

One lady asked what if one of the participants decided to go crazy?  My answer  "we would over power him and split up his gear".   
No problem!
« Last Edit: December 18, 2012, 08:50:40 PM by Leo »
Yep, still riding the old one

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Offline zsiska

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #48 on: December 18, 2012, 10:54:20 AM »
Zak - sorry, I disagree that this coward would have done the same thing if he knew there were openly carried guns there  Let me point this out - have you ever heard of one of these loons going to a shooting range and taking on the shooters there? No. Why? Because he knows his mayhem is going to be addressed rapidly.


Steve,

I realize that this is only one example, but it also proves that neither you or I know what these nutjobs will do.  And I am sure there were armed personnel on the base.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-officer-goes-on-killing-spree-at-army-base-1815729.html

Offline Rhino

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #49 on: December 18, 2012, 11:11:56 AM »
Steve,

I realize that this is only one example, but it also proves that neither you or I know what these nutjobs will do.  And I am sure there were armed personnel on the base.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-officer-goes-on-killing-spree-at-army-base-1815729.html

Actually army bases are gun free zones. Neither civilians or solders are allowed to carry on base.

Offline zsiska

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #50 on: December 18, 2012, 12:44:26 PM »
I stand corrected.  But I still believe that you cant say for sure what any of these nutjobs will do.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #51 on: December 18, 2012, 12:46:05 PM »
Steve,

I realize that this is only one example, but it also proves that neither you or I know what these nutjobs will do.  And I am sure there were armed personnel on the base.   

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-officer-goes-on-killing-spree-at-army-base-1815729.html

  Zak - the link wouldn't open for me, but if you're talking about Fr hood, it's perfect example of my point. Everyone there was disarmed. Actually a female plolice officer stopped the carnage.

  and while we can't say for sure what a nut will do, don't separate intelligence from crazy. In other words, you can be a really smart nut. You work through all the obstacles and become very successful in your evil plan. Steve

Offline Strawboss

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #52 on: December 18, 2012, 01:17:01 PM »
Leo, like you, I participated in the matches at Perry for over 15 years, 1400 shooters, every day for over 2 weeks with evil rifles and the only injury ever was when a gust of wind blew the railing off of the steps to the pits and hit a volunteer. We can talk and write about what we'd do when really in reality, we won't know what we'd do until it actually happens to us. Thats not a slight to anyone. When I'm asked what I'm afraid of because I carry a gun, I say carrying a gun makes me unafraid.
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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #53 on: December 18, 2012, 04:38:25 PM »
Actually army bases are gun free zones. Neither civilians or solders are allowed to carry on base.
Perfect point.  A well trained, unarmed force slaughtered by one killer/terrorist/nut job.  How many lives were saved in Klackamas, how many could have been saved here.  An armed society is a polite society.

Offline gPink

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #54 on: December 18, 2012, 05:06:04 PM »
An armed society doesn't have to be polite.  8)

Offline Necron99

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #55 on: December 18, 2012, 05:51:50 PM »
How would you figure?  The decline of civility started when they outlawed dueling.  People act much more reasonably when they fear the reprisal from bad behavior.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
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Offline gPink

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #56 on: December 18, 2012, 06:13:00 PM »
Exactly. An armed society doesn't have to be polite. It chooses to be polite.   
An unarmed society has to be polite.

Offline connie1

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2012, 06:31:21 PM »
 I think everyone would be very polite if they anticipated even 50% of people were packing. 
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Offline jim_de_hunter

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #58 on: December 18, 2012, 06:53:40 PM »
Exactly. An armed society doesn't have to be polite. It chooses to be polite.   
An unarmed society has to be polite.


Would you please explain this a little more thoroughly.  I'd like to understand EXACTLY what you mean.


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Offline gPink

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Re: I will not run away
« Reply #59 on: December 18, 2012, 07:29:28 PM »
There is no ambiguity here. I'm not sure what is unclear.