Kawasaki Concours Forum

Concours 1400 (C14) FAQ => C-14, aka Concours-14 GTR 1400 => Engine and Controls (Fuel, Ignition, Exhaust, Sensors and the like) => Topic started by: JamminJere on March 21, 2012, 07:47:01 PM

Title: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: JamminJere on March 21, 2012, 07:47:01 PM
I know we had a couple of good threads on the old board about the Fuel Pump and some of the problems/issues with dirty fuel over time. AussieDave (RIP) was one of the first to experience this and some of the other far riders down under..We have it in an FAQ here on the site.. However the pictures are no longer visible for me to see.

I would think every C14 will have problems with this and about 4 or 5 other models that use the same pump, (ZX6 ZX14 our bike, etc)... its just a matter of time/mileage. We basically have a fuel pump that has an internal fuel filter. Mama Kaw does not mention anything about it in the Service Manual. All fuel systems have a filter somewhere.. most are serviceable.  There are no parts available from Kaw for the fuel pump. The parts fische shows one part number/ complete fuel pump for $344.00 US today.. I've seen OEM pumps on ebay for $279.00.

What happens is eventually the filter/screen clogs with fine sediment from dirt in the gas, the pump struggles to maintain rail pressure for the injectors, it cavatates and will not be able to fuel the engine in the higher rpms, and when bad enough, the bike surges on and off like someone is playing with the kill switch. It did NOT throw an FI code on the ECU.  Can you service it yourself? And save the $300 bucks for gas when there is nothing else wrong with the pump?  Sure if you are careful.

Run the tank down well into reserve, or if you have a pump, you can pump the fuel out of the tank into a container. Remove the tank and flip it upside down on a blanket...

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7577.jpg)

remove the 5 bolts holding the fuel pump in the tank.. and then remove the pump. You will have to move one of the clips to free the wire going to the pump assy.  Bring it to the bench...

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7585.jpg)

Now.. looking at the bottom of the pump, behind the two wire terminals on the left side pictured, is where the fuel inlet is to the pump. By design, nothing large can get in there.. so how do we get in?

There are two phillips head screws at the top of the pump, one has a ground wire connected. remove the two screws. The top metal bracket that holds the sending unit for low fuel is on this piece. Note where the wire for it connects and remove the wire from the clips in the plastic body.. set it aside.

Using 1 or 2 flat blade screw drivers, you will see a gap around the first 1/3 of the pump body. Pry gently on opposite sides until you pop the pump top out of the o-rings holding it together.  As it comes up the rails and is removable, check the two o-rings and orientation for this part for re-assembly.

Once the top 1/3 of the pump is removed, slide the entire rest of the pump body up and off the two silver metal rails and turn it upside down. (you may get small drips of gasoline do it on a towel or shop rag). We can now see the filter bottom. It is a fine brass mesh screen impregnated with an almost cotton like material inside.. Mine was completely black and fouled with fine dirt.

Carefully work a small flat screwdriver around the screen and the plastic body that holds the screen, until you work the champhered end out of the fuel pump body and out of the pump.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7584.jpg)
PIC SHOWS TOP SIDE OF FILTER THAT GOES BACK IN TOWARDS PUMP

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7578.jpg)
DISASSEMBLED PUMP

I used carb and choke cleaner and compressed air to get the worst of the crud off, and then cleaned it a second time in hot water with a little dish soap and let it soak in there for about 10 minutes then worked it around and used compressed air to remove all the water and dry it off..

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7580.jpg)
DIRTY!

When cleaned, although its hard to see in the pic, the brass of the screen was clean.. and the material inside it was almost white again.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7583.jpg)
BETTER

I used a tiny bit of clear grease on the O-rings going back together.. re assembly is the reverse of tear down.

(http://i195.photobucket.com/albums/z311/JamminJere/100_7586.jpg)

EDIT: Forgot to mention, while the pump is out, take a bright flashlight and check out the inside of the tank for dirt in the remaining gas or sides of the tank. Flush if necessary.

I also used my O-ring over in the fuel tank. Made sure it was clean.. You can use the service manual for tank removal and fuel pump removal and re-installation if you have it.

Put it all back together, and your good to go for XX,XXX amount of miles again.

Our bikes are coming up on 5 years old this July... Save yourself a real headache and put this service on your list to do before the surge bug gets your bike.. Man they run great again with a clean filter! :)

This report was done again for our lost great member AussieDave.... We miss you Davo... I hope you're having a great ride.

JJ

Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: B.D.F. on March 21, 2012, 08:07:43 PM
Nice post Jerry. I am considering another trip to the left coast and as the bike is now approaching 80K miles, I can see this would be a useful preventative maintenance issue. No issues with the bike or fuel system yet but as you mention, why wait when it is fairly easy to clean the filter. It is always much easier to do work on a bike in the garage, at the owner's convenience than it is on the side of the road... at night.... in the rain.... with bears watching.

Thanks for taking the time to share the info.

Brian


I know we had a couple good threads on the old board about the Fuel Pump and some of the problems/issues with dirty fuel over time. AussieDave (RIP) was one of the first to experience this and some of the other far riders down under..We have it in an FAQ.. However the pictures are no longer visible for me to see.

<snipped instructions>

Our bikes are comming up on 5 years old this July... Save yourself a real headache and put this service on your list to do before the surge bug gets your bike.. Man they run great again with a clean filter! :)

This report was done again for our lost great member AussieDave.... We miss you Davo... I hope you're having a great ride.

JJ
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Jay on March 21, 2012, 10:41:28 PM
Since this C14 "filter" is built into the fuel pump that resides inside the gas tank, it appears there is no way to prevent an inevitable clog.

Is there anything we can to to avoid a fuel pump tear-down?
Maybe pump gas through a coffee filter?
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: lt1 on March 22, 2012, 12:09:25 AM
Thanks.  Any ideas what a reasonable service interval would be?
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 22, 2012, 02:29:39 AM
Actually, Davo's fuel filter issue post is still available through our C14 Wiki area....

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1238.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=1238.0)

Davo  RIP....  :'(
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on March 22, 2012, 12:05:54 PM
R.I.P. and Godspeed to Davo,

Nice photo coverage there Jer, thanks for the write up!!
I had to resurect Davos stuff last year for someone, and always worry that it will dissapear. ???
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: B.D.F. on March 22, 2012, 12:39:47 PM
You should clean the filter just before it is about to clog....

Sorry Clyde, could not resist.

 ;D

Brian

Thanks.  Any ideas what a reasonable service interval would be?
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: JamminJere on March 22, 2012, 01:34:29 PM
Clyde,

The service interval is up to you.. frequency depends on how much gas you run thru it.. and how dirty the fuel is.. This happens slowly over time so you arent going to notice a real problem until it starts to resist throttle input and starts to bog down. It wont just shut you down on the side of the road the first time it occurs.  It is a very strong pump.

But you may notice a difference in throttle response and mileage just by getting it clean again and after you do it once, and see how much dirt is there based by your total mileage on the bike to date, you'll know when to get after it again..

If your bike has over 10,000 miles on it... I'd be surprised if the screen was still squeeky clean.

One thing I would suggest.. If you are going to clean it.. run a good fuel injector cleaner thru the last tank before you clean it, and the tank after once the tank and pump are clean.

Jay,

I don't know if you'd have the patience or even if it would be safe to try to fill your tank thru a coffee filter... Maybe a commercial paint filter screen? One of the cone types they use in body shops... I'm not sure what micron level they filter to.. this dirt is very fine

JJ
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Conrad on March 22, 2012, 03:45:19 PM
Nice write up JJ
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Jeremy Mitchell on March 22, 2012, 04:30:33 PM
Thanks for posting this.  My filter is probably due for a cleaning so I will go ahead and knock it out in the next couple weeks.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: wiler2006 on March 26, 2014, 06:07:58 PM
Guys check this out http://www.riderforums.com/z1k-z750-maintenance/77631-fuel-pump-strainer.html (http://www.riderforums.com/z1k-z750-maintenance/77631-fuel-pump-strainer.html) Look like we can finally get these filters. I created this account just to let you guys know about this.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: VirginiaJim on March 26, 2014, 08:32:10 PM
Thanks!
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: wiler2006 on March 28, 2014, 03:47:47 PM
Guys. It's confirmed. I picked up the filter today. It's a 100% match to the one from my 08 ZX-14.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Boomer on August 08, 2020, 09:53:38 AM
Holy Thread Resurrection!  :rotflmao:
Thanks Jammin, the instructions were easy to follow and my C14 now has a nice new fuel filter.
I don't think I have ever worked on a bike that the fuel tank was such a PITA to take off, but it's done.
The old filter was black after 75k miles.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on August 08, 2020, 04:38:38 PM
Holy Thread Resurrection!  :rotflmao:
Thanks Jammin, the instructions were easy to follow and my C14 now has a nice new fuel filter.
I don't think I have ever worked on a bike that the fuel tank was such a PITA to take off, but it's done.
The old filter was black after 75k miles.

You must have done it in the dark with one arm tied behind your back.  Tank removal is quick & easy and requires no big plastics to come off.  Filter replacement should be a regular service item like brake fluid flush&bleed.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 08, 2020, 06:39:39 PM
Holy Thread Resurrection!  :rotflmao:
Thanks Jammin, the instructions were easy to follow and my C14 now has a nice new fuel filter.
I don't think I have ever worked on a bike that the fuel tank was such a PITA to take off, but it's done.
The old filter was black after 75k miles.


Didn't Asif write this up as well?
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: gPink on August 09, 2020, 07:56:23 AM

Didn't Asif write this up as well?

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17490.0 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=17490.0)
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 09, 2020, 11:23:15 AM
Thanks.  You get one get out of jail card free...and a cookie.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: just gone on August 09, 2020, 01:11:04 PM
Thanks pinkie!

I went through those instructions and decided that I'm just going to run fuel system cleaner through mine occasionally until I get the symptoms and am forced to do the replacement.
 It's not the work so much that is off putting, but rather having all those rags semi soaked with fuel and with my luck I'd end up with no garage, and no bikes(or melted ones), and maybe even no me.
I haven't heard of anyone being stranded because of a dirty filter, but rather just not having full performance when requested. Although there are some on here or perhaps it's the other
forum that swear one is lugging the engine if you don't keep it above 4000 rpm at all times, both I and more importantly Mama Kaw' would disagree, so I think I can get home OK without
ever going over 5000 rpm if I need to.

It sure got me Jonesin for that green colored bike (https://www.motorcyclespecs.co.za/Gallery%20B/Kawasaki%20GTR1400%2011.jpg) though.
I often wonder if the situation were reversed and I had the green one and the Candy Neptune Blue were only available in Europe if I'd want the blue one instead?
...Nah..... I wish I had a metal flake green C14, I'm just too cheap to paint mine (or rather too cheap to pay someone that would do the job properly).
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: VirginiaJim on August 09, 2020, 01:22:26 PM
I just so happen to have a rebuilt pump (new filter) sitting on the shelf in the garage..looking for a good home.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Boomer on August 10, 2020, 01:16:28 AM
You must have done it in the dark with one arm tied behind your back.  Tank removal is quick & easy and requires no big plastics to come off.  Filter replacement should be a regular service item like brake fluid flush&bleed.
Nope, if you read my comment carefully you will see that what I said was
"I don't think I have ever worked on a bike that the fuel tank was such a PITA to take off"
with the emphasis very much on the I, not anyone else, just I.
If you have worked on bikes with more difficult fuel tanks, then please let me know what they are so I can avoid buying one.

Not one of the bikes I have worked on in well over 43 years of mechanic-ing required the emptying of the tank before removal, required the removal of a tank mounted glove-box or required the flexibility of a gymnast to release that stupid fuel hose clip, which once released proceeded to leak fuel everywhere. Just that there is a ****-poor piece of design. No solenoid to shut off fuel flow when the pump is powered off?  :nuts:
To be fair it wasn't gushing out but I ended up having to push some hose onto it and then clamp the hose off and there was maximum 2 litres left in the tank.
My garage now stinks of petrol but the job is done.

I'd forgotten about Asif's write-up. I just used the first one that my Google search came up with and it gave me more than enough info.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on August 10, 2020, 02:14:59 AM
Gee Boomer, you must be just unlucky.  Fuel only needs to be removed to make the tank lighter to lift, if need be.  Removing the fuel hose from the pump is best done with the front of the (near empty) tank raised close to vertical and propped there (or held by and assistant).  This gives easy access to the retaining clip.  When the fuel line is removed only a very small amount of fuel escapes, to be soaked up in a rag.  If fuel continues to escape from the pump it's a wonder it the bike ran, as it had an internal leak if I've understood your description correctly.  No fuel cut-off solenoid is needed because fuel will not pass thru the pump by force of gravity unless an O ring within the assembly is leaking.
Anyhow, enjoy the ride and you be better at it next time.   :chugbeer:
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: B.D.F. on August 10, 2020, 06:34:57 AM
I think the level of difficulty depends on what it is compared with (what other bikes) and how many times a person has removed the tank from a C-14.

Compared to naked bikes with carburetors, it IS quite a bit more difficult. And it can be tricky, at least it was for me, to remove the fuel line 'cause that little 'C' clip is almost impossible to do by feel alone, at least the first time (Easy Boys! and yeah, I know there are a number of jokes in there....).

That said, it is not too bad, especially if you have a bit of help. The side plastic does not have to be entirely removed but it does have to be removed around the top and 'spread' out (Boys!) so that the tank can slide through the opening. Then it is just a matter of disconnecting two wiring harnesses and the one fuel line, all of which are easy.... the second time a person does it.  ;) :o

As already said, the tank should not leak any fuel beyond what was in the fuel line and that will not amount to even 1/2 cup. And the tank does not need to be emptied unless it is to lower the weight.

One other thing to be careful of: if the tank is pretty full of fuel, it cannot be just put down on the floor because it will bend the aluminum fuel line that is on the bottom of the tank (actually the fuel pump but that is what will touch the floor first). Doing so will bend the fuel tube and because it is aluminum, it will kink and require replacing it, and it is part of the fuel ass'y. Ask me how I know..... :-(

Brian

Nope, if you read my comment carefully you will see that what I said was
"I don't think I have ever worked on a bike that the fuel tank was such a PITA to take off"
with the emphasis very much on the I, not anyone else, just I.
If you have worked on bikes with more difficult fuel tanks, then please let me know what they are so I can avoid buying one.

Not one of the bikes I have worked on in well over 43 years of mechanic-ing required the emptying of the tank before removal, required the removal of a tank mounted glove-box or required the flexibility of a gymnast to release that stupid fuel hose clip, which once released proceeded to leak fuel everywhere. Just that there is a ****-poor piece of design. No solenoid to shut off fuel flow when the pump is powered off?  :nuts:
To be fair it wasn't gushing out but I ended up having to push some hose onto it and then clamp the hose off and there was maximum 2 litres left in the tank.
My garage now stinks of petrol but the job is done.

I'd forgotten about Asif's write-up. I just used the first one that my Google search came up with and it gave me more than enough info.  ;D 8)
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on August 10, 2020, 02:23:46 PM
I've pulled the tank, and removed the pump 3 times so far, and never had more than a tablespoon of fuel leak out from that hose connector... onto a rag..
the last time I pulled it, was to replace the filter element, and was no big deal, the other 2 times was to simply dump the old fuel that sat all winter, again, no big deal, I spilled a bunch while dumping it tho.. but every time I did a dump, it was outside..

I bought a siphon hose on the last go round, thinking I could just use that to empty the tank.. but that was a bust... trying to siphon with the size hose I had was a no go issue, couldn't get it into the tank deep enough to matter.. meh... ::)
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Boomer on August 11, 2020, 06:47:34 AM
Whilst the tank was off I painted the minor rust spots on the underside of the tank with rust killer and then left it overnight.
It wasn't resting on the fuel pump tube and the tank only had about 2 litres in it.
When I came back to refit it the next day about 2 cupfuls of fuel had leaked out onto the bench but it wasn't leaking right then.
I've refitted it to the bike and it runs fine and isn't leaking so I'll worry about that next time I have the tank off.

Yes, since this is the first bike I've worked on with Fuel Injection (I never worked on my Z1300) I expected it to be a bit more difficult than my C10 and most of it was OK, but that fuel hose clip was a PITA until I managed to find the right angle to fit my huge paws in there with needle-nose pliers to release it.
Dunno why they didn't use a standard quick-connect fuel fitting that just requires a push of the recessed button to release it.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: B.D.F. on August 11, 2020, 07:23:07 AM
Something wrong with either the fuel pump or something not sealed quite right on the bottom of the fuel tank (fuel pump or fuel level sender) because the tank should not leak at all when sitting even if it is full of fuel. The system needs fuel pump pressure to drive fuel out of it and should not flow any fuel under gravity.

Yeah, that clip is tricky the first time or two. Reminds me of the headlight retainer- seems impossible until your hand 'learns' how to uncouple it and then either one can be uncoupled, without tools, in seconds. But both are tough the first time because you cannot have your paws in there and look at the same time, and looking at the fuel coupling is not really helpful, at least it was not for me. It really is a great fuel connector though and is just a tube pressed inside another tube with an O-ring, the clip does nothing but hold it in place.

Brian

Whilst the tank was off I painted the minor rust spots on the underside of the tank with rust killer and then left it overnight.
It wasn't resting on the fuel pump tube and the tank only had about 2 litres in it.
When I came back to refit it the next day about 2 cupfuls of fuel had leaked out onto the bench but it wasn't leaking right then.
I've refitted it to the bike and it runs fine and isn't leaking so I'll worry about that next time I have the tank off.

Yes, since this is the first bike I've worked on with Fuel Injection (I never worked on my Z1300) I expected it to be a bit more difficult than my C10 and most of it was OK, but that fuel hose clip was a PITA until I managed to find the right angle to fit my huge paws in there with needle-nose pliers to release it.
Dunno why they didn't use a standard quick-connect fuel fitting that just requires a push of the recessed button to release it.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on August 11, 2020, 11:14:28 PM
Just to repeat:

Removing the fuel hose from the pump is best done with the front of the (near empty) tank raised close to vertical and propped there (or held by and assistant).  This gives easy unlimited access to the retaining clip. 

 :chugbeer:
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on August 11, 2020, 11:15:49 PM
Something wrong with either the fuel pump or something not sealed quite right on the bottom of the fuel tank (fuel pump or fuel level sender) because the tank should not leak at all when sitting even if it is full of fuel. The system needs fuel pump pressure to drive fuel out of it and should not flow any fuel under gravity.

Yeah, that clip is tricky the first time or two. Reminds me of the headlight retainer- seems impossible until your hand 'learns' how to uncouple it and then either one can be uncoupled, without tools, in seconds. But both are tough the first time because you cannot have your paws in there and look at the same time, and looking at the fuel coupling is not really helpful, at least it was not for me. It really is a great fuel connector though and is just a tube pressed inside another tube with an O-ring, the clip does nothing but hold it in place.

Brian

 :chugbeer:   :thumbs:   :chugbeer:
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on February 25, 2021, 12:16:25 AM
A hidden secondary filter is identified & discussed below:

https://forum.concours.org/index.php?threads/09-c14-wont-climb-over-5k-when-under-load.52953/#post-635354
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on December 01, 2021, 08:54:36 AM
Thanks to some keen observations by Roba and BundyBear of the Australian GTR forum it's now possible to put a part number to that hidden secondary high pressure filter as shown in the pic below.

(https://i.imgur.com/VMNaTXt.jpg)

Yes it's Suzuki part number 15610-14J00  item 7 comes with regulator & O ring.  2010 DL650.

https://bluecitymotorcycles.com.au/oem/suzuki/search-part?brand=suzuki&year=2015&model=3618&section=205353

Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on August 30, 2022, 12:14:26 AM
Link just above no werky.  Item 12 in Busa fuel pump.

https://bluecitymotorcycles.com.au/suzuki-parts?year=2015&model=2394&section=134299

........or get a complete pump - cheap at twice the price!

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/165269044829?hash=item267acd7e5d:g:VpkAAOSwpLhh1o3q&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAABIGadhcBfEwyhDdHsSYjM0wUt7UO3OOB0cLOSGNUsB%2FD1ofeoLoWyJr0ojnhFZUM2UAWyDUTydP5doYXU0Bffw2r85RsaEk7fM%2BX2P9SnLFQscmF0DPmRjOjw2U%2FUTgdQJpHChd%2Bqiy8muYRnJIiaTlBGDoynRZtnYIU8DBig%2F5%2FkY8wH2IWtYlQZoqW1kNUlyADvHx9%2BizI75iP%2FguMSmr85qUZoAlwe7s0GaCn0F%2B4UOqTofJLvD150sHtjxVI9Y0m%2FG27h9xUc%2Fm9bTBL0ycnSVLypcCYyBczLzfya%2FDIp9R6SDflii0OHzOR%2BDI%2BcV4OyT5c627p%2FKkQU5LHNHmySWesQrocxB0iQPNgXSMJoNb7ZhekI%2F%2FlxVXI0vtvCNg%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABFBMxrWr-sNh

Just swap the base plate and do away with the gauge float.

Update: I got one of these pumps a few days ago - it's junk, don't get it.  It has no hi pressure filter in the top housing and no check valve to prevent fuel flow when off.
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: Freddy on February 04, 2023, 08:21:38 PM
Pump fitted with new Suzuki hi pressure filter as detailed above - thanks to Old Neil in Western Australia for spending the $167 to get it.

(https://i.imgur.com/MJaQ4NM.jpg)
Title: Re: Fuel Pump and Fuel Filter revisited.
Post by: VirginiaJim on February 05, 2023, 07:17:16 AM
Freddy, thank you for this...