Author Topic: Aircraft we like..  (Read 243877 times)

AlbertaDoug

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #420 on: December 07, 2014, 08:22:10 PM »
U2 Dragon Lady Cockpit Footage and T-38 Talon Chase Plane

http://youtu.be/u_CL7v5ST44?list=UUAdN9s9MrsX0BVdz4XZAhaA


Copyright claim won't allow viewing!!!!

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #421 on: December 08, 2014, 05:21:53 AM »
Oh well.  It was nice while it lasted.
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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #422 on: December 08, 2014, 08:41:00 AM »
Consolidated PBY video...

Consolidated PBY on Vimeo
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Offline SevenAce

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #423 on: December 08, 2014, 09:50:09 AM »
Cool thread. I need to set aside a rainy day to watch all the vids here and dig up one from the story below.

Had to share, although not exciting(slow), I got to witness FordMoCo time a Model T on their 4-mile test oval with the take-off of an old Ford mail plane. Apparently the plane left the ground at 20mph at the same moment the Model T and the plane were rolling side by side. The hairs stood up on the back of my neck - and SO FEW people got to see it. I was working for Volvo at the time and just plain LUCKY!

The plane had to be jumped by an old Ford Taurus security car(!) and supposedly was made from so much Balsa wood and wrapped in fabric(?) This was all part of the Ford 100th Anniversary celebrations in Dearborn. Many cool planes were there and then flown to a museum after their final flights that day; but my head was working in another arena so I didn't get to learn much about them. I was in awe of the executives who flew in on the highest tech and latest helicopters only to go for a ride in these archaic planes for their final voyages. The helicopters then chased them for their return. Those of us 'non-plane' people were nervous as heck and so relieved to see everyone get back safely.


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Offline VirginiaJim

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #426 on: December 09, 2014, 09:17:43 AM »
Some Yahoo groups I belong to...

vintagemilitaryaircraftunitedstates

USAF_Bombers_and_Tankers

canadasarmedforces

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #427 on: December 09, 2014, 09:21:14 AM »
Unfreakin believable...

http://news.yahoo.com/usaf-paint-trucks-because-f-35-t-fly-033918678.html

Seems they don't like hot weather.. :doh:   I'm not liking the F-35 at all...what a boondoggle.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #428 on: December 09, 2014, 11:23:33 AM »
Unfreakin believable...

http://news.yahoo.com/usaf-paint-trucks-because-f-35-t-fly-033918678.html

Seems they don't like hot weather.. :doh:   I'm not liking the F-35 at all...what a boondoggle.

I think the whole concept is dumb. If you need a VTOL aircraft, build the best dedicated VTOL aircraft you can. Do not compromise a non VTOL air superiority fighter if you don't need VTOL. I believe 2 aircraft, 1 VTOL, the other not, would be cheaper then trying to build one super aircraft that you know has to make trade offs to do both missions.

Offline SapperLdr

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #429 on: December 11, 2014, 09:43:47 AM »
Unfreakin believable...

http://news.yahoo.com/usaf-paint-trucks-because-f-35-t-fly-033918678.html

Seems they don't like hot weather.. :doh:   I'm not liking the F-35 at all...what a boondoggle.

From what I have seen so far the Air Force is trying to spin this as not a F-35 problem, that all tactical aircraft have a fuel temp upper limit.  They are correct but what they are not saying is how much of a mission derogation the F-35 incurs as the the fuel temperature goes up. I believe the concern is for the IR signature of the aircraft.   
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Offline rocknrod

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #430 on: December 11, 2014, 03:15:27 PM »
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Offline Two Skies

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #431 on: December 11, 2014, 04:11:13 PM »
Yeah, on the whole multipurpose F-35 thing, I think that is a concept taken a bit too far.  A jack of all trades is a master of none, and the F-35 feels very JOT to me.  Plus, as someone mentioned above, degrading mission turnaround times (because the fuel is too hot to be an effective coolant) is a big deal, especially if you are deployed in such fun places as Saudi Arabia, which routinely sees temps in the triple digits.

I still think the Swedes have the entire STOL concept about right with the Viggens and Gripens.  Not sure if any Viggens are still in service, but the Gripen has been a success.  Janes recently (in 2012) gave the Gripen top honors for the lowest cost per flight hour, or CPFH (when fuel, maintenance, etc. are combined), of $4,700 CPFH.  As a comparison, the Block C/D F-16 weighs in at about $7,000 CPFH.  I'm sure the F-35 will be well above the F-16 numbers once it has been in service and the 'kinks' worked out.

The Gripen is Multirole done right IMHO.  The F-35 is just a boondoggle.  And to think that they consider the F-35 as even remotely capable of replacing the A-10 in it's mission role... kind of makes you wonder who's steering the ship there in the Pentagon.

But I digress.  This is supposed to be a happy thread.  In that spirit...  Three beautiful birds!

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Offline Pilgrim

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #432 on: December 11, 2014, 04:15:16 PM »

Royal Saudi AF F-15.  The camera in that reconnaissance pod is made by the same company that makes the U2 cameras.

Offline Cholla

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #433 on: December 13, 2014, 02:06:34 PM »
The line aboutthe fuel being too hot to be used as coolant is crap. They used it on the SR71 in the 60s. And the SR generated way more heat than this plane.
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Offline Two Skies

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #434 on: December 13, 2014, 04:08:03 PM »
The line aboutthe fuel being too hot to be used as coolant is crap. They used it on the SR71 in the 60s. And the SR generated way more heat than this plane.

Here's a writeup that talks about the issue:
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-f-35-cant-run-on-warm-gas-from-a-fuel-truck-that-sa-1668120726

The SR-71 is a completely different animal.  First off, it is designed from the ground up to withstand much higher temperatures (turns out that going Mach 3+ generates a LOT of heat from friction from air being forced over the aircraft surfaces).  Also, JP7 fuel has a significantly higher flash point than JP-8 does, again with the heat envelope that the SR-71 operates within in mind.  Over 90% of the SR-71 uses titanium composites, so that the wings and such don't simply melt away or deform at the higher temps from friction at Mach 3+.

In fact, the SR-71 was well known for leaking fuel like a sieve when sitting on the runway.  Once the flight surfaces expanded from in-flight friction and such increasing the surface temp of the craft, then the leaks would seal up, which is why SR-71's generally refueled once they were underway, to replace all of the fuel left on the ground back at base, as well as to top off the tanks (SR-71's generally began their missions with just enough fuel to take off and make it to the tanker, so they wouldn't waste as much fuel on the ground).  I've attached a pic showing a fuel puddle accumulating underneath an SR-71 during mission prep.

The F-35 isn't capable or expected to operate in those environs.  She tops out at about Mach 1.57, using published specs (1,199 MPH top speed)

Finally, as noted in the article above, the F-35 was designed to use it's fuel as a heat sink for it's avionics and such.  This was done partially to reduce the weight of the craft.  Sure, they could have handled shunting heat in a different manner, but that likely would have added to the weight of the craft, hence reducing it's potential payload capacity.

The Air Force quotes I've read on this issue mention that once the F-35 is flying, this is not an issue.  Which makes sense because the craft is in motion at that point.  The potential issue arises during takeoff operations, at which point the craft isn't able to shed heat as easily (air isn't passing over the flight surfaces as rapidly, or much at all at all during taxi operations).  The Air Force also claims that this won't affect mission readiness, but of course they aren't going to openly admit that their new baby has a significant flaw in it's design...

In short, I'm not surprised that the whiz kids at Lockheed designed the heat envelope for the F-35 so tightly.  One only has to look at current engineering trends to see how much less 'overengineering' is done these days.  Gotta make room for all of the other 'features' (in aircraft as well as in automobiles) ya know...  The SR-71 was borne from those 'overengineering' days, as was the B-52...


I'm sure this 'fuel issue' will be worked out in future variants/blocks, of course.  That's generally how it's done.  Identify the problems in the 'A' model, fix it in the next one.  Of course, in the F-35's case, it'll start with D/E/F (A is conventional, B is VSTOL, and C is the Carrier variant).  The articles I've read so far refer to the 'A' variant, dunno how the B's and C's are faring with this issue.

I've also attached a pic of an M-21 (SR-71 variant) with a drone strapped on, just because...
2006 w/50,000+ miles and a few bruises.

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Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #435 on: December 13, 2014, 06:53:32 PM »
The line aboutthe fuel being too hot to be used as coolant is crap. They used it on the SR71 in the 60s. And the SR generated way more heat than this plane.

The F-35 ain't no SR-71 and the fuel issue is well known and the AF is dealing with it.  I don't think A-10s have that issue, though.
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Offline Two Skies

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #436 on: December 14, 2014, 06:12:16 PM »
This pic is so caption worthy!

I'm going with 'awww, he found a little friend...'
2006 w/50,000+ miles and a few bruises.

MCL Fork Brace & Handlebar Risers.  Bergmen Quick Release Tank Kit, Pilot GT Front/Avon Venom Rear tire.  Trunk w/spoiler.  NGK DR8EIX plugs.  Piece of foam in airbox.  Beads on seat.  Bafflectomized.  Murphs Kneesavers & Fuse Block.  Cee Bailey Winscreen w/vent.  Heated grips.  'Custom' mirrors.

Offline Cholla

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #437 on: December 15, 2014, 09:02:44 AM »
Quit familiar with the operating parameters of the SR, i have a few friends who used to work on them.
Seems like the F-35 is a boondoggle due to govt requirements. They think you can make anything do anything when specialty items are needed. They will spend more making something that does things half arsed than by building 2 or 3 items that perform their intended role better.
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Offline Rhino

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #438 on: December 15, 2014, 09:21:24 AM »
This pic is so caption worthy!

I'm going with 'awww, he found a little friend...'


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Offline Charlie747

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Re: Aircraft we like..
« Reply #439 on: December 15, 2014, 12:44:43 PM »
This pic is so caption worthy!

I'm going with 'awww, he found a little friend...'


Hey buddy, get your crotch out of my nose or you will loose it!


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