"Why Sport Touring Bikes Suck"

[Poseidon]

Yes and no.  There are plenty of other "power" ways you can lose control without it just being broken rear traction.

Like wheelies? TC shuts those down shortly after they start. Braking? ABS takes care of that. Cornering? Neither TC or rider modes are going to help you out there.

I agree.  But EVERYONE learns to ride a Concours on a Concours.  And if you just came up from a 400 pound 250, there is a huge difference.

That is why they make all those sizes in-between a 250 and a 1400. As long as you keep the RPMs down and don't open the throttle up, the Concours is very mild mannered. So much so, I was going crazy trying to make it thru the break in period! Teach throttle control to new riders instead of trying to idiot proof it with electronics!

No.  Throttle response is how quickly and to what degree the engine reacts to the throttle in all conditions, not just shifting.  And the C14's throttle is notoriously "snatchy"- with or without shifting.

I was referring to the slow speed stuff, which is what I thought you were referring to as well. I wasn't talking about shifting. Just starting from a start, or slow parking lot maneuvers. Riding the clutch a little to take the jerkiness out of the throttle. You know... the way they did it before rider modes.

There are several good reasons for multiple riding modes- one could also have one that emphasizes low-end power over high-end.... another I didn't put in the list.  It isn't just about limiting power, but how and when it is delivered.

 

You might get some shifting of the power band manipulating the timing with rider modes, but it isn't going to be a significant change. The only way you are going to significantly shift the power band up or down the RPM range is by changing cams. I agree tho, if you could significantly shift the power band it would be helpful. Especially for those that are loaded down for a trip, pulling a trailer, etc.

There are far more USEFUL things I would like to see on the C14, but if we are just talking about things that would/could be useful, I think it is valid.  Plus, it costs essentially $0 to have, it is just programming.

Like a supercharged 1400!

Something not mentioned yet- electronically adjustable suspension.  To me that is a red herring.  Sure, I would like it, but that is one of those things that will REALLY jack up the price of the bike, far more than anything else listed so far.

That is another one that I have no interest in. Just one more very expensive item to go bad that provides no added benefit over having a dial to turn.

I would prefer built-in USB charging ports (with option for full-time, timed, or ignition-only), built-in battery trickle charging port, built-in heated clothing connectors, built-in accessible extra wiring panel (front and rear) for extras, far better horns, real theft/tamper alarm system with remote notification.  And one neat idea I had a while ago- automatically reversing cooling fans that push heat out the front in hot weather when the bike is stopped (instead of back toward the rider)

Now THOSE are some useful electronics!!!! 

Most of the other things I would want are not "electronics/electrics" related, so they wouldn't be valid here.

Post them anyway.

[maxtog]

The low fuel warning is my greatest pet peeve.  No way to clear the “Danger Danger Will Robinson!” mode and see what your range is.

Well, that is not quite true.  You CAN clear it by pressing both buttons on the dash in a certain order.  It then returns almost to normal, although the red light will stay on, the fuel indicator will blink and the range will be blank.  The problem is that performing those button presses is difficult and dangerous while moving.  But it can be done (I do it all the time).

The reason the range is blank is because it is generally too inaccurate and will lead you into trouble.  The best solution is to clear the warning, then reset your B trip meter.  Most C14 will go at least 42 miles on the remaining 1.1 or so gallons of gas (if you are driving conservatively)- so you have a very good idea of your limit.

I have considered buying that low fuel warning eliminator, but, knowing myself as I do, I’d probably run out of gas! 

That would be my fear- it disables the warning completely AND you have no idea how much gas is left (because the virtual 1.1 gal "reserve" tank no longer exists) AND the range indicator will likely not necessarily be accurate at all.  But it does get rid of that horribly, over-the-top alert crap. 

[maxtog]

Post them anyway.

Oh....  adjustable seat height (with a much lower setting).
Adjustable bars.
Larger and dual "gloveboxes".
Larger fuel tank, by at least one gallon.
Dual kickstands (quad-pod).
Ground lighting at park; probably from mirrors.
Revamped TPS that has external batteries or rechargeable contacts.
Built-in fallover protection.
Smaller active RFID keyfobs.
3 included keyfobs.
Automatic/keyless locks on panniers.

In my case, reverse assist would be nice... but I know that would have very limited appeal.  I am usually pretty good at keeping myself out of trouble (learned that pretty quickly with this best and my short legs).

[tonedeaf1]

I have to agree with the OP. My BMW K1, Honda ST 1100 and C14 all sucked. I do not know how I have been able to stand riding them for the last 20 years!!!!!

[katata1100]

He complained several times about too many buttons .uh, there are zero buttons! You have windshield toggle, brake and traction control levers, computer read lever and temperature grip control.

He even threw in rear shock preload!

I don’t think he understands the point of sport tourer. Yes, he went for a ride up a mountain in TN ( they have mountains???), but I do think I have been “one” with my c14. Go on a 2000 mile three week trip on a c14, where everything  you got is in that bike and then you might have a better idea.
I like those heated grips, they don’t distract. You know what distracts ? Frozen hands!
I’ve used them down to the mid 20’s.
I have another sport tour- 91 katana 1100, first bike with a power screen. It’s not as fast, gets maybe 42mpg tops, buzzes, not as comfortable. I guess in his world, this would be a better bike. I don’t pose, my bikes are not just for donut runs, I’ve ridden 16 hours straight on both my c14 and my katana 1100, I couldn’t ever do that again on the katana 1100. And I bet mr dodge wouldn’t last four hours on that c14 before he missed his truck or car.
I do have my iPhone mounted where he had gps. I do use the gps on it too. Like I said , I like going on long, multi state drives and it’s useful not getting lost.
Until he goes on a trip so long that he  packs laundry pods to wash his clothes every week at whatever motel 6/ super 8 he is holed up, he’s just a poser who belongs on a Burgman scooter.

[PH14]

I don’t think he understands the point of sport tourer. Yes, he went for a ride up a mountain in TN ( they have mountains???),

Uhm... the Great Smokey Mountains... I also guess you are unaware that a portion one of the most famous "motorcycle roads," Deals Gap, The Dragon, is in Tennessee. Tennessee has great roads for a sport bike. I guess you've never ridden in Tennessee.

As for the "review," yeah, stupid overall, but I am one who agrees on the brakes. I hate linked brakes for a bike intended for sport riding.

[katata1100]

I was being facetious. Most of my riding is in the Sierra Nevadas and the Rockies.  I live at 4800’.

[Eupher]

I agree. ^^^

I've posted several times that the fact that the Concours has fewer electronics than most other sport tours was a selling point for me.

Yup. That much less to go wrong.

[Rhino]

I don’t get the rider modes tho. Why not just give full power all the time and let the rider control the power with how much throttle they give it? I don’t understand why anyone would want less power?

On my Ducati I have 4 programable ride modes: Sport, Touring, Urban and Enduro. Besides max power, throttle response, dampening, pre-load, abs and wheelie control are programed differently in each mode. It comes set at the factory but you can individually adjust each of these in each ride mode. Max power is just one aspect of a ride mode.

About 99% of the time I use touring or sport mode which has access to full power output of 152hp. The difference is in touring is a softer ride, full abs, zero wheelie and softer throttle response.

Urban mode has only 100hp with max abs and wheelie. Perfect for rain or wet streets in general.

Enduro mode also only has 100hp, zero abs on the rear and zero wheelie control so you can slip the rear wheel in the dirt to slide around corners (not me but someone who knows what they are doing). I've tried it once or twice but haven't had a chance to really get off road.

You can switch modes at the touch of a button while on the move. And I do. Get into the twisties in the TX hill country pushing it in sport mode but then get onto rough or even dirt road will typically switch to touring. Everything just smooths out.

[katata1100]

I once took the c14 to Bodie, the best ghost town in the country . On the last few miles of road, it’s loose rock/ dirt. The traction control light kept flashing , but I never felt it; the bike was stable and cruised on without any stress.
I passed some HD bikes that lacked TC- they kept their feet out like outriggers and the rear wheels of the bikes were prone to fish tailing.
I love the TC on these bikes .

[PH14]

I was being facetious. Most of my riding is in the Sierra Nevadas and the Rockies.  I live at 4800’.

 

The older mountains out east make for very nice motorcycle roads.

[Poseidon]

Oh....  adjustable seat height (with a much lower setting).
Adjustable bars.
Larger and dual "gloveboxes".
Larger fuel tank, by at least one gallon.
Dual kickstands (quad-pod).
Ground lighting at park; probably from mirrors.
Revamped TPS that has external batteries or rechargeable contacts.
Built-in fallover protection.
Smaller active RFID keyfobs.
3 included keyfobs.
Automatic/keyless locks on panniers.

In my case, reverse assist would be nice... but I know that would have very limited appeal.  I am usually pretty good at keeping myself out of trouble (learned that pretty quickly with this best and my short legs).

Nice list. I like the dual glovebox idea. I saw where someone else here posted about trying it. Been thinking about doing it myself ever since.

Larger gas tank and quad-pod I would use too. Not sure about the rest tho. I’m still too new to the bike to say for sure.

[Poseidon]

On my Ducati I have 4 programable ride modes: Sport, Touring, Urban and Enduro. Besides max power, throttle response, dampening, pre-load, abs and wheelie control are programed differently in each mode. It comes set at the factory but you can individually adjust each of these in each ride mode. Max power is just one aspect of a ride mode.

About 99% of the time I use touring or sport mode which has access to full power output of 152hp. The difference is in touring is a softer ride, full abs, zero wheelie and softer throttle response.

Urban mode has only 100hp with max abs and wheelie. Perfect for rain or wet streets in general.

Enduro mode also only has 100hp, zero abs on the rear and zero wheelie control so you can slip the rear wheel in the dirt to slide around corners (not me but someone who knows what they are doing). I've tried it once or twice but haven't had a chance to really get off road.

You can switch modes at the touch of a button while on the move. And I do. Get into the twisties in the TX hill country pushing it in sport mode but then get onto rough or even dirt road will typically switch to touring. Everything just smooths out.

Besides the enduro mode, (which I will never need on the Concours) couldn’t all of the other modes be accomplished by twisting the preload dial, throttle control, and TC either on or off? I don’t see where all of those ectra electronics are needed. Just one more thing to go wrong and adds a lot of expense to the cost of the bike and repairs. That’s money that could be spent on mods or trips... or a dirt bike for those off road excursions!

To me, decreasing HP is pointless. Make the power on the bike linear and don’t twist the throttle so far. There you go, less HP! Peak HP and peak torque numbers are obtained at wide open throttle. You are not going to see numbers nearly that high at 10% or 20% throttle. The fact that the computer is cutting power by 1/3 in some of those modes means absolutely nothing unless you are running wide open throttle at the rpm where peak power is being made.

I see most of these rider modes as a gimmick and a way to charge more for the bike, more for replacement parts, and more for repairs. A lot of people seem to be falling for... I mean... like it tho. To each there own I guess.

[Rhino]

Besides the enduro mode, (which I will never need on the Concours) couldn’t all of the other modes be accomplished by twisting the preload dial, throttle control, and TC either on or off? I don’t see where all of those ectra electronics are needed. Just one more thing to go wrong and adds a lot of expense to the cost of the bike and repairs. That’s money that could be spent on mods or trips... or a dirt bike for those off road excursions!

To me, decreasing HP is pointless. Make the power on the bike linear and don’t twist the throttle so far. There you go, less HP! Peak HP and peak torque numbers are obtained at wide open throttle. You are not going to see numbers nearly that high at 10% or 20% throttle. The fact that the computer is cutting power by 1/3 in some of those modes means absolutely nothing unless you are running wide open throttle at the rpm where peak power is being made.

I see most of these rider modes as a gimmick and a way to charge more for the bike, more for replacement parts, and more for repairs. A lot of people seem to be falling for... I mean... like it tho. To each there own I guess.

I see in your signature you have or have had 4 different bikes. Why? Why not buy just the one bike? Wouldn't that be a lot simpler? Or perhaps you enjoy riding different styles and bikes with different feel to it. I do that with a touch of a button. Completely different bike.

[Poseidon]

I see in your signature you have or have had 4 different bikes. Why? Why not buy just the one bike? Wouldn't that be a lot simpler? Or perhaps you enjoy riding different styles and bikes with different feel to it. I do that with a touch of a button. Completely different bike.

M109R is more of a show bike, bike night, fat tire muscle cruiser. I still ride it to the mountains occasionally as well. Walk around video of it in the link below. Has air ride on a remote - demo at 1:10. I did the entire build myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_2czfz8pT0

Victory Magnum is a lazyboy on wheels. Long distance bagger that handles as good if not better than any other cruiser I know of. It sees most of the longer trips and 2 up riding. It has cams and several other performance mods. Dyno was just a hair under 120hp/120ft#. It has a 600 watt Arc audio system in it. Built that one myself too. I still have more parts and mods I plan to do to it.



The Concours, I bought primarily for day trips to the mountains. Comfortable two hour ride out there, sport bike performance and handling once I'm there, and a comfortable ride back home. I also got it so I would always have something to ride while I'm doing more mods to the other two bikes.

The Spyder is my wife's bike. I jump on it for a little ride every once in a while. I don't ride it far because I have it set up for her. (she is about a foot shorter than me so it is a little cramped for me to ride it.)



So the short version is I have a show bike, a performance bagger with a stereo, (both totally different riding position than the Concours) and a sport tour. I don't think a riding mode will be able to make those kinds of changes.

[Rhino]

So the short version is I have a show bike, a performance bagger with a stereo, (both totally different riding position than the Concours) and a sport tour. I don't think a riding mode will be able to make those kinds of changes.

To a small extent it does. Most summers I do a long trip somewhere (usually in the Rocky Mountains). Getting there for me is a long trip across TX. Putting the Multistrada in touring mode soaks up all the bumps unlike the C14 (no matter what pre-load setting) or even my Valkyrie ever could. I get to the twisty bits in the mountains, push a button and it feels is a hard core sport bike. On one trip we were on a small road along the Colorado/Wyoming border and it turned to dirt and we rode 30 miles on dirt with some mud. I was on the C14 and not loving it. Now I'm l looking forward to doing something like that again on the Multi with Enduro mode. And having less top end power does help a novice like me modulate rear wheel spin on traction compromised roads. But like you said, to each his own. I like all your bikes! So many bikes, so little time!

One last thing, bang for the buck, the C14 wins hands down.

[Poseidon]

I agree that a good adjustable suspension goes a long way for comfort. I have that with all three of my bikes. Air ride on the M109R has adjustable pre-load and rebound all controlled with air. It’s range goes from riding on a cloud to firm just by adding or removing air.

Magnum has air adjustable coil over. Air is just for pre-load depending on how much weight is on the bike. In the bags, passenger, etc.

I mod my bikes for the most power and best throttle response I can get. I added a quarter turn throttle ring to the Magnum to make the throttle more responsive and make it so you don’t have to twist it so far for full throttle. Stock was almost 180 degrees. Now it is about 90 degrees to full throttle. I have as much power as I am going to get without moving up to a big bore or a super charger (which has crossed my mind several times).

The M109R is a performance beast to begin with. I’ve done about as much as is available for it from a performance standpoint.

I’m sure I’ll get there with the Concours too, eventually. I can’t leave anything alone.

My point to all of this is that I have never been on a bike and thought to myself... I wish it had less power. ...or I wish it was less responsive. And, I don’t need a computer and buttons in order to have a great adjustable suspension. Rider modes won’t change the seating position or where the controls are located, or the looks and sound of the bike. That is the reason why I own as many bikes as I do. For off road, I have ATVs, but I do enjoy dirt bikes too. I just don’t have any right now.

[just gone]

Yes most of us do love performance in our bikes, and can't conceive of a riding mode that reduces power.

However on a touring bike, and most C14s are touring some of the time, one can encounter various weather phenomena (heavy rain, sleet, hail). The rider(s) may be in variable states of fatigue (long day in the saddle due too unforeseen detour) and or distraction (GPS routing isn't agreeing with that rough idea in the back of your head of today's route), and perhaps the person sitting on the pillion may have gained a few pounds since your last ride together, and in addition would like for you reroute to find a public bathroom post haste?
 These factors might make you wish you had a "rain" setting and high sensitivity Traction Control setting or some such on your bike to protect yourself from the usually embraced high performance.
Perhaps a softer on the fly suspension setting would be appreciated by the person on the pillion to avoid any seepage on the large bumps during the search for an acceptable public convenience.
Un-needed luxuries some would say, safety enhancements would say others.  Different strokes say I.

[Poseidon]

Yes most of us do love performance in our bikes, and can't conceive of a riding mode that reduces power.

However on a touring bike, and most C14s are touring some of the time, one can encounter various weather phenomena (heavy rain, sleet, hail). The rider(s) may be in variable states of fatigue (long day in the saddle due too unforeseen detour) and or distraction (GPS routing isn't agreeing with that rough idea in the back of your head of today's route), and perhaps the person sitting on the pillion may have gained a few pounds since your last ride together, and in addition would like for you reroute to find a public bathroom post haste?
 These factors might make you wish you had a "rain" setting and high sensitivity Traction Control setting or some such on your bike to protect yourself from the usually embraced high performance.
Perhaps a softer on the fly suspension setting would be appreciated by the person on the pillion to avoid any seepage on the large bumps during the search for an acceptable public convenience.
Un-needed luxuries some would say, safety enhancements would say others.  Different strokes say I.

I must be an odd ball then. If I get caught in the rain, I either change my route to ride around it, pull off and wait for it to pass, or haul ass thru it. I was on my M109R in the worst rain I ever rode in. It was a complete down pour. I’m talking Monsoon category rain (no wind) that we got caught in on a group ride. The rest of the group was content riding the back roads back to the hotel we were staying at. After about 20 to 30 mins of riding at a snails pace, soaked to the bone,  I saw that there was an enterence to the interstate up ahead. I got the attention of some of the others in the group and motioned that I was going to split off and take the interstate back to the hotel. Rode 75-80 all the way back. Beat the group back by over an hour. They were all complaining about how long they were stuck in the rain. All I had to complain about was how rain that hard feels at 80mph with a t-shirt and half helmet on! Those fat Metzeler’s have excellent wet traction and never once hydroplaned. So again, not even on that ride did I ever wish I had less power.

Sleet and hail? I can say with 99.999% certainty that I will never be out on a bike in that kind of weather. I watch the weather and the radar too much for that. If there is a chance of that kind of weather, I’m either rerouting around it or just not riding that day! If anyone else rides in that stuff, you are a better man than me! No thank you!!!

When nature calls... that is what Mother Nature made trees and bushes for!

GPS takes me the wrong way, I’ll make a U-Turn. No option but to ride the gravel, I ended up doing that on the BRP last summer when they tar and chipped the road. Had 3-4 inches of chip gravel on the road and the group I was riding with were determined to make it to peaks of Otter for lunch. Rode about 20 miles thru that stuff. If it was just me, I would have turned around and gone somewhere else. TC would have been handy on that ride, but I managed just fine with good throttle control.

Short of riding on Ice, which I would never do on 2 wheels, I do not see a practical need for rider modes. If that 0.001% chance ever occurs, maybe I will wish I had it. Right now, I don’t see it happening. Like I said, maybe I’m the only odd ball that feels that way, but it is my oppinion on it and that is all that matters... at least to me anyway! lol

[Akumu]

I must be an odd ball then. If I get caught in the rain, I either change my route to ride around it, pull off and wait for it to pass, or haul ass thru it. I was on my M109R in the worst rain I ever rode in. It was a complete down pour. I’m talking Monsoon category rain (no wind) that we got caught in on a group ride. The rest of the group was content riding the back roads back to the hotel we were staying at. After about 20 to 30 mins of riding at a snails pace, soaked to the bone,  I saw that there was an enterence to the interstate up ahead. I got the attention of some of the others in the group and motioned that I was going to split off and take the interstate back to the hotel. Rode 75-80 all the way back. Beat the group back by over an hour. They were all complaining about how long they were stuck in the rain. All I had to complain about was how rain that hard feels at 80mph with a t-shirt and half helmet on! Those fat Metzeler’s have excellent wet traction and never once hydroplaned. So again, not even on that ride did I ever wish I had less power.

Sleet and hail? I can say with 99.999% certainty that I will never be out on a bike in that kind of weather. I watch the weather and the radar too much for that. If there is a chance of that kind of weather, I’m either rerouting around it or just not riding that day! If anyone else rides in that stuff, you are a better man than me! No thank you!!!

When nature calls... that is what Mother Nature made trees and bushes for!

GPS takes me the wrong way, I’ll make a U-Turn. No option but to ride the gravel, I ended up doing that on the BRP last summer when they tar and chipped the road. Had 3-4 inches of chip gravel on the road and the group I was riding with were determined to make it to peaks of Otter for lunch. Rode about 20 miles thru that stuff. If it was just me, I would have turned around and gone somewhere else. TC would have been handy on that ride, but I managed just fine with good throttle control.

Short of riding on Ice, which I would never do on 2 wheels, I do not see a practical need for rider modes. If that 0.001% chance ever occurs, maybe I will wish I had it. Right now, I don’t see it happening. Like I said, maybe I’m the only odd ball that feels that way, but it is my oppinion on it and that is all that matters... at least to me anyway! lol

You're not an odd ball, man. You're just old school.

My friend has a 14 Kawi Ninja 1000 (sport tourer, not ZX-10R) that has low power mode. He's had it on twice. Once on the ride home from the dealer, his previous bike being an 02 Magna and so wanting to go easy on a more powerful bike. The other time is when I played a joke on him and put it on at a gas stop. Other than that he's never had the inclination, no matter the weather.

He's not alone. My other bike is a 16 Aprilia Tuono. The 11-15s (in USA) had a rain mode. They removed it for the 1100cc refresh. (Used to be 1000cc) They did so because their research said that no one used a low power mode.

That said, the ride modes, while not altering power, do alter engine braking and throttle response. Each mode is quite different, as such I use them in various situations. As I do for the 8 mode TC, 3 mode +off ABS, and 3 mode +off wheelie control. I dont view these nannies as 'one more thing to break.' They're lines of code in the ECU, same as the lauch control. In my view more options is good. If I want raw, untamed savagery I turn eveything off. (A bit different with ESA and ESA II suspension, though.)