Author Topic: Corona Virus  (Read 11331 times)

Offline turbojoe78

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #60 on: May 16, 2020, 04:32:30 AM »
The big numbers pushed are always about how many positive cases there are. So what? If you're sick stay home.  As of this morning, in southern ILL-inois, we had THREE ( 3 ) inpatients in the hospital with a viral respiratory disease but Comrade Pritzker has dictated that I still can't get a haircut. If you'all damn Yankees need to be locked down have at it but this does not require a totalitarian police state. The best way to destroy capitalism is to kill capital. Look around. We won't like the aftermath of what's being done to the economy in the name of safety. This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't. Continuing these police state tactics shows it is no longer about our health...it's about control of people. If it was the governments' job to protect us from getting sick why is there still the flu? Why is Chairman Pritzker trying to get billions to bail out a failed state built into the 'crisis relief' bill in congress? This behavior from our so-called leaders around the country just reinforces the fact that politicians do not act in our best interest but in their own. 

So Conrad I ask you, 'Who's the bigger idiot..the guy who wasn't wearing a mask or the guy who willing follows the rest of the sheep to the slaughterhouse?' Enjoy your lockdown.

+1   Almost the same here for us massholes with our Rino Gov.   What ever happened to "Live free or Die"?  Now it's "Get in line or go to Jail"!  And believe me, we've got plenty of room because we let LOTS of prisoners OUT!
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #61 on: May 16, 2020, 06:20:00 AM »
I am seeing ads for N95 masks marked "not medical grade".
Plus I am seeing studies showing wearing a mask can actually hurt more than help and increases the risk of hypoxia.

Conrad, you haven't said if you wore masks during flu season.
I will take it by your stating you started this March that you answer is NO.
If I am correct, why not?
50 K or so deaths from the flu would warrant wearing one.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #62 on: May 16, 2020, 07:42:51 AM »
I am seeing ads for N95 masks marked "not medical grade".

Generally, that just means they have not been lab tested/confirmed.  They aren't necessarily any less effective at filtration than a medical grade one.

Quote
Plus I am seeing studies showing wearing a mask can actually hurt more than help

In some cases, yes.  The biggest factor probably being a "false sense of security", where users of cloth/paper masks think they are risk-free or over-estimate how effective they are.  Other factors:  re-wearing contaminated masks that are not clean, more touching of the face with unclean hands to constantly adjust the mask,  accidentally wearing them "inside out" when not clean.

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and increases the risk of hypoxia.

Yep, I addressed that as a reason that not everyone can wear a mask.

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50 K or so deaths from the flu would warrant wearing one.

It can, yes.  In a healthcare setting, absolutely.  And it is not uncommon in peak normal flu season for healthcare workers to isolate and use masks.  In a setting where you are a high-risk person and will be near others possibly affected, it is advisable.  The novel flu virus that causes COVID-19 is more dangerous because it spreads more easily, can cause more severe symptoms in some people, and is novel with no vaccine for it (so the population has very little natural immunity to it, yet).  So it makes sense to use more precautions than with non-novel flu, including simple masks.

N95 masks are a different story.  Those have almost no place in the general population use.  They are very restrictive, in short supply, are not effective if not properly fitted, offer no better protection for typical/casual exposure for the flu, and probably don't reduce droplet spread any better than just simple (paper/cloth) masks.  It is "overkill", except for front-line healthcare workers.

Since droplet is one of the primary transmission vectors of all flu (of which COVID-19 is a member), simple masks (paper/cloth) can be effective at helping to prevent the spread.  This doesn't mean I support the general  "orders"/"laws" that require using "a mask" anytime you are outside your home.  They are appropriate for when you can't social-distance and should be encouraged.  As you probably already know, I strongly support civil liberties and individual rights.  The government can and should:

* Educate
* Warn
* Study
* Collect and provide statistics
* Help to organize and distribute emergency containment supplies and gear
* Set guidelines for government workers

Those should be more than sufficient in this matter.  Social pressure can/will do the rest.  But "ordering" people around does not mesh with a free society.  Neither does turning non-users into criminals or encouraging neighbors to "spy" on you and "report you to authorities."  The legal authority to do so is dubious, at best.  It sets a bad precedent.  And it can [and usually does] backfire by creating resentment and conflict.  Life is complicated and individuals need the ability to make their own decisions based on their own risk assessments.  Just like riding a motorcycle :)
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #63 on: May 16, 2020, 07:44:53 AM »
Wow, there's a surprise. Supporters of the current administration all with the same message.

Just ignore it and it will go away.
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #64 on: May 16, 2020, 07:50:48 AM »
Wow, there's a surprise. Supporters of the current administration all with the same message.

You didn't quote, and we posted at the same time.  I assume your comments were directed at Cholla.  In any case, the opposite can be true, also.  It appears anti-supporters of the current administration have all the same message, as well.

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Just ignore it and it will go away.

I think that is a gross overstatement.  Besides, I suspect the overwhelming majority of citizens are not polarized in one extreme (close forever, forced government takeover of liberty) or the other (do nothing), regardless of their position on the current administration.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #65 on: May 16, 2020, 09:00:32 AM »
The big numbers pushed are always about how many positive cases there are. So what? If you're sick stay home.  As of this morning, in southern ILL-inois, we had THREE ( 3 ) inpatients in the hospital with a viral respiratory disease but Comrade Pritzker has dictated that I still can't get a haircut. If you'all damn Yankees need to be locked down have at it but this does not require a totalitarian police state. The best way to destroy capitalism is to kill capital. Look around. We won't like the aftermath of what's being done to the economy in the name of safety. This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't. Continuing these police state tactics shows it is no longer about our health...it's about control of people. If it was the governments' job to protect us from getting sick why is there still the flu? Why is Chairman Pritzker trying to get billions to bail out a failed state built into the 'crisis relief' bill in congress? This behavior from our so-called leaders around the country just reinforces the fact that politicians do not act in our best interest but in their own. 

So Conrad I ask you, 'Who's the bigger idiot..the guy who wasn't wearing a mask or the guy who willing follows the rest of the sheep to the slaughterhouse?' Enjoy your lockdown.

"This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't."

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

As you said, the lockdown was, in part, to prevent the healthcare system from being overloaded, right?

The lockdown was put in place and the healthcare system was not overloaded, right?

So you're saying that we should not be locked down since the lockdown appears to have done what it was supposed to do? 

My condolences on your hair. I'm sure that if you thought about it really hard you'd probably come up with a solution. If not, ask Cholla.

Northern Illinois   Silverdammit '08 C-14 ABS

"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #66 on: May 16, 2020, 09:52:44 AM »
"This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't."
[...] The lockdown was put in place and the healthcare system was not overloaded, right?  So you're saying that we should not be locked down since the lockdown appears to have done what it was supposed to do? 

Not sure his position, but to me there is no question it helped.  But healthcare it wasn't even remotely overloaded, especially if one ignores the few hot-spots (where it also wasn't overloaded, but was getting high usage).  We have tons of capacity doing nothing, which was not the point.  So here are the questions:

* Should all areas be locked down equally, when case load was only really high in a few places?
* How long should areas be locked down when healthcare services are being underutilized?
* How much damage is being done, unnecessarily, to the economy and people's lives by prolonged lockdowns?
* Why did we and continue to lock down those who are NOT at high risk (pre-existing conditions)?
* Why didn't we do a better job of locking down those who WERE at high risk (like nursing homes)?

Until there is an effective treatment or vaccine, cases will continue to materialize, lock-down or not.  And neither has been available or is likely to be available for a minimum of several months, if not much longer.  Regardless of how much or how long we lock down, the virus isn't going away.  But our prosperity has been and will continue to do so, the longer the healthy, low-risk people are forced to stay home.

If one has no major pre-existing conditions (low risk) and follows sensible precautions, there is an extremely low chance of dying or even major complications from contracting COVID-19.  If one DOES have pre-existing conditions, there is nothing preventing that person from locking themselves down or taking extreme precautions.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #67 on: May 16, 2020, 12:05:27 PM »
"This 'lockdown' was supposed to be so the healthcare system did not get overwhelmed. It hasn't."

Let me see if I understand this correctly.

As you said, the lockdown was, in part, to prevent the healthcare system from being overloaded, right?

The lockdown was put in place and the healthcare system was not overloaded, right?

So you're saying that we should not be locked down since the lockdown appears to have done what it was supposed to do? 

My condolences on your hair. I'm sure that if you thought about it really hard you'd probably come up with a solution. If not, ask Cholla.

When you're done with a tool put it away.

Doesn't require that much thought...just a couple of hours drive to a free state.

Offline Cholla

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #68 on: May 17, 2020, 05:51:37 AM »
Hey, Conrad...will you answer the question or keep avoiding it?
And don't pretend you don't know what it is.

I am seeing where many medical facilities are returning N95 masks because they aren't N95.
And what is the difference between N95 medical grade and N95?
If they are not the same why are they both called the same?

If 50 K people have died every year from the flu-in spite of vaccines-why didn't we lock down and require masks?
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #69 on: May 17, 2020, 07:48:36 AM »
When you're done with a tool put it away.

Doesn't require that much thought...just a couple of hours drive to a free state.

Yesterday Illinois had an additional 2,088 cases of C19 and 74 deaths. Does that sound like we're done with 'the tool'?
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"Don't bother me with facts, Son. I've already made up my mind." -Foghorn Leghorn

Offline gPink

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #70 on: May 17, 2020, 09:21:30 AM »
For your edification, peruse the map and see where the prison state tool should be used.  Oh look...it's in your neck of the woods.

https://www.dph.illinois.gov/covid19/covid19-statistics

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #71 on: May 17, 2020, 09:46:10 AM »
Must I remind individuals that some of these posts are Arena material.  I haven't used the flaming sword......yet.
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Offline gPink

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #72 on: May 17, 2020, 11:00:09 AM »
pick one

 :hail:

 :salute:

 :banana

Offline Cholla

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #73 on: May 18, 2020, 08:54:44 AM »
Flaming sword?
Kinky!
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Offline Cholla

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #74 on: May 18, 2020, 08:57:33 AM »
If masks work to stop the spread of the who flung poo flu, why didn't prisons issue them to prisoners instead of releasing them?

And Conrad is still avoiding the question.
Beware the Black Widows...Feared throughout the land!

Offline BruceR

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2020, 03:12:56 PM »
Prison is kinda the ultimate shelter in place.  How are these people even getting sick?

Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2020, 03:49:50 PM »
Prison is kinda the ultimate shelter in place.  How are these people even getting sick?

New inmates can bring it.  So can the staff.  But releasing prisoners or not taking in prisoners due to fear of COVID-19 is truly ridiculous.
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Offline Conrad

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2020, 07:07:46 AM »
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave...    :o
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Offline maxtog

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2020, 06:35:01 PM »
The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave...    :o

HA!  I was listening to that song JUST THIS MORNING.  Considering that player has 4,986 different songs on it, that isn't a small feat.  (I listen in that room less than 1 hour a day, so it would take almost a year to hear the same song twice).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Cuda

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Re: Corona Virus
« Reply #79 on: May 21, 2020, 03:47:10 PM »
Seems that the Arena is a bit like The Hotel California, one can check out but one can never leave...    :o


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