Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: marku8a on February 16, 2012, 09:04:38 PM

Title: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: marku8a on February 16, 2012, 09:04:38 PM
I did a few searches and found the following comments on the subject but nothing conclusive about a "how to" or if attempts were successful or not. Your recommendations are appreciated.

Mark

Re: Stebel Nautilus Install on a 09 California model problem
« Reply #15 on: August 03, 2011, 06:11:54 pm »

Quote from: SonnyC on August 03, 2011, 01:47:13 pm

    Well, I removed the fairing and I found an evaporative canister(Rectangular and black) with two vacuum lines occupying the space I'm suppose to put the Stebel Nautilus in.


Yeah, welcome to my world!

I have not tested it yet, but since I need the room for a Rostra CC, and two Stebel compressors I'm determined to get rid of that canister that wasn't supposed to be on my bike in the first place  >:( . I'm going to plug the "green line" and put a breather type filter on the "blue line". I'll let you know how it works but it might be a few days.

    Quote

I'm eager to know how it turns out with the removal of your canister.  It there is no adverse effect, I'll do the same so that I can add more farkles.

SonnyC
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: just gone on February 16, 2012, 10:56:18 PM
Quote from: me , I think?
Yeah, welcome to my world!

I have not tested it yet, but since I need the room for a Rostra CC, and two Stebel compressors I'm determined to get rid of that canister that wasn't supposed to be on my bike in the first place  >:( . I'm going to plug the "green line" and put a breather type filter on the "blue line". I'll let you know how it works but it might be a few days.

OH Crap, I think that was me. So I didn't get back to that post?..sorry I thought I did. Anyway, yeah I did what I said, plugged the one line and stuck a small filter on the other and tucked them down out of my way. It works fine that way. No engine problems, no measurable milage change or any other mysterious performance problems. I never did put the second Stebel in, but the one Stebel compressor and the Rostra and several relays all went where that annoying canister was. If I didn't get back until now, please accept my apologies. I need to find that post and go "fix it".  :o

edit: OK I did get back but in another thread.
Well I ended up plugging the green hose and putting a breather type filter on the blue hose. The bike seems to
run just as before with these changes and without the canister.

Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: SVonhof on February 17, 2012, 07:32:01 AM
I have had two other Ca model bikes with that canister and did exactly what you are asking on both and they were fine.
First was a 1996 Honda CBR600F3 and the second was a 2001 Suzuki TL1000R.
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: Mister Tee on February 17, 2012, 08:30:56 AM
I wouldn't remove the canister unless I really need the space for something, but on the other hand I wouldn't replace it after it goes bad either.
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: just gone on February 17, 2012, 12:12:39 PM
I'm no engineer, but I really didn't see anything (other than an insignificant weight increase) that the California
emission equipment might do hurt performance. If my connie needed to pass the California standards and I didn't
want the canister filling up the valuable real estate under the front fairing, I think I would just try to move it to the
back of the bike. Maybe behind the license plate or where the left muffler should be. It's only two hoses, so it's not
a huge job if needed.
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: marku8a on February 17, 2012, 12:32:28 PM
OH Crap, I think that was me. So I didn't get back to that post?..sorry I thought I did.

No worries. Thanks for replying to my request. I agree that the equipment does nothing to negatively affect performance. I am looking at the canister space to install a Rostra cruise control. It doesn't hurt to loose a little weight as well. Has anyone removed the separator and associated plumbing? I would like to install Zteve's heat shield without modification.

Mark 
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: marku8a on April 01, 2012, 06:48:45 PM
Has anyone removed the separator and associated plumbing? I would like to install Zteve's heat shield without modification.

Mark

I didn't get a reply to my question about removing the separator. I have the bike apart now to easily remove it. So I will ask again. Has anyone removed the separator and associated plumbing that can offer advice?

Mark
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: katata1100 on April 01, 2012, 08:44:13 PM
I'm no engineer, but I really didn't see anything (other than an insignificant weight increase) that the California
emission equipment might do hurt performance.

CA C14 probably has slightly less gas capacity in the tank, you could have problems if you like to top off the tank and above all, CA C14's have a different ecu.
My CA spec GSX 1100F was 1/2 sec slower in the 1/4 mile than 49 state bikes, along with all that emissions crap, had screwy carb settings which made the bike a dog (until I "de CA -ized it"!). If anything, I'd be concerned about the different ecu that CA bikes, nothing they do helps, only hurts performance.
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: just gone on April 02, 2012, 12:05:53 AM
...... I'd be concerned about the different ecu that CA bikes, nothing they do helps, only hurts performance.
Hmmm..first I've heard of that on the C14, perhaps even more reason I should get the Guhl reflash.

I didn't get a reply to my question about removing the separator. I have the bike apart now to easily remove it. So I will ask again. Has anyone removed the separator and associated plumbing that can offer advice?

Mark

Sorry I can't help marku8a, I left mine there thinking it didn't hurt performance and might even help MPG
(in theory, not measurably). Hopefully someone has made that mod. Good luck with your heat shield install.
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: OregonJim on April 02, 2012, 08:39:03 AM
Related issue: I'm an Oregon resident in the market for a 2012 C14. Is there an easy way to know if a bike has California smog equipment?
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: katata1100 on April 02, 2012, 09:00:04 AM
Related issue: I'm an Oregon resident in the market for a 2012 C14. Is there an easy way to know if a bike has California smog equipment?
There is a letter in the product number to indicate it but I'd have to look it up to tell you.
All bikes in the states that border CA are CA bikes (or probably are). My local dealer told me that they like CA bikes as they can sell them to use NV'ans or CA folks (CA is about 30 minutes away). During my searching, all C14's for sale in NV, AZ and OR were CA bikes. OR dealers wanted way too much, prices seem to get cheaper as you went east, flew out to CO to get my bike and ride it back- what fun!
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: katata1100 on April 02, 2012, 09:09:32 AM
Hmmm..first I've heard of that on the C14, perhaps even more reason I should get the Guhl reflash.
Maybe Guhl can answer what is different about the two:
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/51/Year/2010/ModelID/8479/Model/Concours_14_ABS_%28ZG1400-CAF%29/GroupID/407556/Group/Fuel_Injection (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/51/Year/2010/ModelID/8479/Model/Concours_14_ABS_%28ZG1400-CAF%29/GroupID/407556/Group/Fuel_Injection)
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: Mister Tee on April 02, 2012, 10:08:59 AM
Hmmm..first I've heard of that on the C14, perhaps even more reason I should get the Guhl reflash.

Sorry I can't help marku8a, I left mine there thinking it didn't hurt performance and might even help MPG
(in theory, not measurably). Hopefully someone has made that mod. Good luck with your heat shield install.

Not even in theory.  It simply adsorbs fuel vapors, it does not return them to the tank as liquid fuel.
Title: Re: California Somg Equipment Removal
Post by: katata1100 on April 02, 2012, 03:21:35 PM
Not even in theory.  It simply adsorbs fuel vapors, it does not return them to the tank as liquid fuel.

I think it does. I haven't looked at the plumbing diagram of a CA spec C14, but on my Katana, the cylinder would capture gas vapors, then send them back to the gas tank. There was a little tube inside the tank, that explain why it is slightly less capacity than a non CA spec bike. It looks like the CA and non CA C14 bikes have different fuel tanks:
http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/50/Year/2009/ModelID/8421/Model/Concours_14_%28ZG1400-B9F%29/GroupID/404176/Group/Fuel_Tank (http://www.ronayers.com/Fiche/TypeID/26/Type/Motorcycle/MakeID/3/Make/Kawasaki/YearID/50/Year/2009/ModelID/8421/Model/Concours_14_%28ZG1400-B9F%29/GroupID/404176/Group/Fuel_Tank)
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 03, 2012, 04:38:02 AM
Actually it doesn't.  Vapor recovery is vapor only, not liquid fuel.  If it becomes saturated to the point of having liquid fuel in it, it needs to be replaced as does whatever caused the condition.

These canisters store vapors when the engine is not running.  With the engine running, the vapors are sucked out and returned to the engine to be burned.  Fuel vapor recovery 101.
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: Mister Tee on April 03, 2012, 09:58:58 AM
What VirginiaJim said.
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: marku8a on April 03, 2012, 08:49:27 PM
Actually it doesn't.  Vapor recovery is vapor only, not liquid fuel.  If it becomes saturated to the point of having liquid fuel in it, it needs to be replaced as does whatever caused the condition.

These canisters store vapors when the engine is not running.  With the engine running, the vapors are sucked out and returned to the engine to be burned.  Fuel vapor recovery 101.

Agreed with you. The part I want to remove is the "separator" which is a different component than the canister. All hoses upstream of the canister connect to the separator. There is a "return line" that runs from the separator back to the gas tank. From the owner manual section 10 page 144...

"3. Evaporative Emission Control System (California)
Vapors caused by fuel evaporation in the fuel system are not vented into the atmosphere. Instead, fuel vapors are routed into the running engine to be burned, or stored in a canister when the engine is stopped. Liquid fuel is caught by a vapor separator and returned to the fuel tank."

Mark
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: just gone on April 04, 2012, 06:39:17 PM
Related issue: I'm an Oregon resident in the market for a 2012 C14. Is there an easy way to know if a bike has California smog equipment?
  When new yes, simply reach in under where the right side glove box would be if Kawasaki had decided to put one on each
side, you can feel the vapor canister if it has one. It has a rubber strap around its middle holding it place. When used, same thing unless a previous owner removed it   ??? .


...... Liquid fuel is caught by a vapor separator and returned to the fuel tank."

Mark

Thanks Mark, you saved me a bunch of typing.  :goodpost:
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: VirginiaJim on April 04, 2012, 06:54:18 PM
Agreed with you. The part I want to remove is the "separator" which is a different component than the canister. All hoses upstream of the canister connect to the separator. There is a "return line" that runs from the separator back to the gas tank. From the owner manual section 10 page 144...

"3. Evaporative Emission Control System (California)
Vapors caused by fuel evaporation in the fuel system are not vented into the atmosphere. Instead, fuel vapors are routed into the running engine to be burned, or stored in a canister when the engine is stopped. Liquid fuel is caught by a vapor separator and returned to the fuel tank."

Mark

Ahhhh....
Title: Re: California Smog Equipment Removal
Post by: marku8a on May 04, 2012, 09:55:24 PM
All done now.

I removed the canister and separator. I also removed the return hose that runs from the separator back to the fuel tank (I capped the fitting on the tank). I plugged the 2 hoses that run to the intake manifold. I joined the breather hose that started at the tank then went to the separator to the hose that went from the separator to the canister. I put a small plastic automotive fuel filter on the open end of the breather hose. Probably overkill but why not?

Every is working fine with no issues. This allowed me to install Zteve's heat blocker without modification which was my original goal.

Mark