Issues bleeding the clutch

[Conrad]

I took care of the front and rear brake bleeding no problem. Not so the clutch!

After hooking up my Motion Pro brake bleeder and then sucking out the old fluid from the clutch reservoir, being careful to leave a lil in the bottom, I refilled it and opened the lower bleed valve. I pumped the clutch lever and got a ton of air out of the bleeder. That's weird because my clutch was working perfectly before I stated. Now I can't get the dammed thing to pump up! I get a bunch of air coming out and a lil fluid. I closed the valve and tried the top bleeder. Lot of air but finally I got a clear stream. Back down to the lower bleeder. More air. I keep pumping the lever and adding fluid. Lots of air bubbles but it never runs clear. Back to the top then the bottom again. 



It won't pump up and no matter what I do there's air. Where the is all that air coming from?

Help!

This worked perfectly the last time I did it. 

[Rhino]

I had the same problem even with a MityVac. Took about an hour messing with it with the MityVac and trying the old fashion method before it started coming out clear. No idea why the clutch is such a PIA. Why is it any different then the brakes? Part of the problem with the MityVac is that it sucked some air around the threads of the bleeder screw. Was thinking that next time to pull the bleeder all the way, teflon tape it and put it back in. The other thing I might try is make a homemade pressure bleeding system just for that stinking clutch.

[Conrad]

Thanks Rhino.

Damn, I've been messing with this thing for two hours in my COLD garage. I guess I'll have to break down and buy a MityVac and mess with it some more.

[gPink]

Just had a similar problem. Went through all the motions. Ended up holding the mityvac hose right on top of the fluid hole over the piston and pumped the lever while sucking. Seem to clear the problem and got lever pressure back. must have got a particle of dirt in the mechanism.


                                                                                                                             

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, this bike is a gigantic PITA to bleed the hydraulics. Even when you think you did a great job, power bleeding the same system will make that system feel much firmer (Easy Boys!) and crisp.

You can power bleed using a hand- held pressure device; the MityVac systems that produce pressure as well as vacuum. I did it several times successfully but it is just too risky building up enough pressure (and it takes like 15 PSI) with a tapered rubber nozzle jammed into (Easy!) the drain on the reservoirs. It takes three hands really and if any fitting, hose or the end gets loose while under pressure, there will be brake fluid for quite a few feet in all directions and that stuff eats paint and most plastics.

The powered vacuum systems work best and easiest on these bikes. Not cheap but not ridiculously expensive either. And it will save the nastiest words you know for a different project later on.... like adjusting the valves.

Brian

I took care of the front and rear brake bleeding no problem. Not so the clutch!

After hooking up my Motion Pro brake bleeder and then sucking out the old fluid from the clutch reservoir, being careful to leave a lil in the bottom, I refilled it and opened the lower bleed valve. I pumped the clutch lever and got a ton of air out of the bleeder. That's weird because my clutch was working perfectly before I stated. Now I can't get the dammed thing to pump up! I get a bunch of air coming out and a lil fluid. I closed the valve and tried the top bleeder. Lot of air but finally I got a clear stream. Back down to the lower bleeder. More air. I keep pumping the lever and adding fluid. Lots of air bubbles but it never runs clear. Back to the top then the bottom again. 



It won't pump up and no matter what I do there's air. Where the is all that air coming from?

Help!

This worked perfectly the last time I did it.

[B.D.F.]

For whatever it is worth Conrad- I have two hand- pumped brake bleeding devices (one MityVac and the other an all metal type of another brand) and neither one worked worth dirt on my C-14. The bleeders leak too much at the threads to maintain a vacuum with those things. The air aspirates types do the trick but you need an air compressor to use them.

Brian

Thanks Rhino.

Damn, I've been messing with this thing for two hours in my COLD garage. I guess I'll have to break down and buy a MityVac and mess with it some more.

[Rhino]

For whatever it is worth Conrad- I have two hand- pumped brake bleeding devices (one MityVac and the other an all metal type of another brand) and neither one worked worth dirt on my C-14. The bleeders leak too much at the threads to maintain a vacuum with those things. The air aspirates types do the trick but you need an air compressor to use them.

Brian

Exactly! For some reason I didn't have much of a problem on the brakes but PITA on the clutch. That's why I was thinking of trying teflon tape. Not sure if brake fluid will eat it up or not but I only need it to last long enough to bleed it.

[Conrad]

Like I said, the brakes where a snap, no problemo and no swearing what so ever. I'm pretty sure that my swearing at the clutch is still reverberating in the garage. ..

Two years ago when I did this last I had ZERO problems.

I can understand the air leaking past the threads of the bleeder using a vacuum but where is all the air coming from using the Motion Pro valve? It's under pressure right? So if there was a leak at the threads shouldn't there be fluid running out? I can't get the dammed lever to pump up at all now. One time it did pump up after I closed the valve but when I opened it to make sure that all the air was out, I got more bubbles and then it wouldn't pump up again! 

[Rhino]

Good thing we didn't do it at the same time otherwise the swearing could meet in the middle and reinforce one another. Add a 3rd party and it could create the perfect storm.

[VirginiaJim]

Just had a similar problem. Went through all the motions. Ended up holding the mityvac hose right on top of the fluid hole over the piston and pumped the lever while sucking. Seem to clear the problem and got lever pressure back. must have got a particle of dirt in the mechanism.


                                                                                                                           

Sucking what? 

Like I said, the brakes where a snap, no problemo and no swearing what so ever. I'm pretty sure that my swearing at the clutch is still reverberating in the garage. ..

Two years ago when I did this last I had ZERO problems.

I can understand the air leaking past the threads of the bleeder using a vacuum but where is all the air coming from using the Motion Pro valve? It's under pressure right? So if there was a leak at the threads shouldn't there be fluid running out? I can't get the dammed lever to pump up at all now. One time it did pump up after I closed the valve but when I opened it to make sure that all the air was out, I got more bubbles and then it wouldn't pump up again! 

Well, you have all winter to figure it out...

[gPink]

coulda been the mityvac or...shrubbery 

[VirginiaJim]

I'll be sucking on a martini in a few minutes...

[sailor_chic]

When the master, calipers and brake line were changed on my other bike, bleeding them out was very difficult. Someone on another forum recommended that I hook small hoses up to the bleeders and raise them up to an elevated bucket. By doing this, I was able to work the micro bubbles out and not have to worry about opening/closing the bleeder 10,000 times. It worked like a charm.

[B.D.F.]

On a side note: nope, brake fluid will not attack Teflon. Nor will any acid, or base, or heat or any catalyst that I am aware of. One of the really cool things about Teflon, and there are quite a few cool aspects to the stuff, is that it is almost impossible to find anything to attack it.

Which begs the question: what do you use to glue the world's most slippery substance that cannot be attacked by any chemical or chemical combination (that one could use in, say, a garage)? Hmmmmmm

Back to the bleeding: best of luck to all of you folks but I was not successful in finding anything that worked reliably and well to bleed the hydraulics on a C-14. Then again, I give up easily which is why they call me Mary Jane Tinklepants. But in the end, the air powered MityVac ended all problems for all time and turned a lousy, very inconsistent job into one that is quick, easy and works consistently excellently.

Brian

Exactly! For some reason I didn't have much of a problem on the brakes but PITA on the clutch. That's why I was thinking of trying teflon tape. Not sure if brake fluid will eat it up or not but I only need it to last long enough to bleed it.

[leisyman]

guess it is maybe cos i am an old school geezer, but using speed bleeders on each orifice, both brakes and clutch, made the whole job easy for me. takes longer than a pump, but works fantastic on my baby. and don't need two or three people to do it!

just sayin

[Conrad]

When the master, calipers and brake line were changed on my other bike, bleeding them out was very difficult. Someone on another forum recommended that I hook small hoses up to the bleeders and raise them up to an elevated bucket. By doing this, I was able to work the micro bubbles out and not have to worry about opening/closing the bleeder 10,000 times. It worked like a charm.

guess it is maybe cos i am an old school geezer, but using speed bleeders on each orifice, both brakes and clutch, made the whole job easy for me. takes longer than a pump, but works fantastic on my baby. and don't need two or three people to do it!

just sayin

Thanks for the tips you two but this isn't the first time that I've done the clutch and the brakes on my C14. I did it two years ago for the first time using the exact same method that I'm using now and it worked perfectly. Well, maybe not perfectly as I did get some air bubbles while doing the clutch but nothing like I'm getting now.

What method is that you ask?

Starting with this.



Then moving on to this.

[smg id=658]

[smg id=659]

As I said in my first post. I already did the front and rear brakes using this method and it worked just as it should.

I'm picking up a MityVac today and giving it another go.

[Rembrant]

The powered vacuum systems work best and easiest on these bikes. Not cheap but not ridiculously expensive either. And it will save the nastiest words you know for a different project later on.... like adjusting the valves.

Brian

I'm sure I've mentioned this before, but I use a home made vacuum system that uses compressed air. I use a glass Mason jar with bulkhead fittings and an SMC vacuum ejector (for 1/4" tubing iirc). For my suction line(s)...I have a single line for things like clutch bleeding, or I simply plug-in a tee so I can bleed both front calipers together or bleed both bleeder screws on a single rear caliper (many under-slung rear calipers have two bleeder screws).

I can bleed and refill a complete front braking system or clutch, etc in only a few minutes. One man job, no drama, no mess. However, even home made, it did cost me about $100 worth of parts/fittings/tubing, and you DO need compressed air to run it, but it does work very well.

I'll usually cut a piece of cardboard to fit snugly over a brake or clutch master cyl (if they're the cast aluminum ones, and not the round plastic bottles like on most sport-bikes). The cardboard is a splash guard. I can turn the vacuum on very slowly, and then just pour new brake fluid in the reservoir.

Now I understand that most people don't want to spend $100 bucks on stuff/parts for a powered vacuum system, but if you hate doing it as much as I did, it might be worth it...lol.

What I did was basically build a homegrown version of this:

http://www.amazon.ca/Mityvac-MV6835-Vacuum-Brake-Bleeding/dp/B0015POUXM

Rem

[gPink]

Ha...149.50 USD....http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV6835-Vacuum-Brake-Bleeding/dp/B0015POUXM

Need pics of the frankenvac 

[Rhino]

I used this one:

http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV8000-Automotive-Test-Bleeding/dp/B00265M9SS/ref=sr_1_1?s=automotive&ie=UTF8&qid=1416606595&sr=1-1

[Rembrant]

Ha...149.50 USD....http://www.amazon.com/Mityvac-MV6835-Vacuum-Brake-Bleeding/dp/B0015POUXM

Need pics of the frankenvac 

Haha...hey, mine is a bit crude, but it's all business and works every time...lol.

I HATED bleeding brakes until I made this thing. Now, I can do a complete flush and fill job on front brakes, rear brakes, and clutch in about 45 minutes...no fuss, no mess. I don't have to pump the lever or pedal.

The plastic tee looking device on top of the jar is a vacuum ejector. Apply compressed air, and it creates vacuum on the bottom port...in this case, in the jar. The black valve with blue knob is a quarter turn valve, and also serves as my flow control. The other adjuster hanging beside the jar is a proper flow control, but it is not required...I just never bothered to remove it. The bare hose coming out of the jar is my vacuum line. If I'm doing front brakes, I simply pop on a tee and then have two lines and apply vacuum to both calipers at the same time.

I don't think it was actually $100...probably more like $70-$75. I only found out later that the flow control wasn't required...SMC stuff is expensive, so it adds up quick. The vacuum nozzle itself is likely $40 bucks alone. I think without the flow control, you could make it for $50 bucks.

Pepper rings anyone?...lol.

Rem