Not Running Right.

[Tele130]

Last week I rode home from work and she was running like a top.  Take off the following day for work and it's acting like it's running on three cylinders.........way under power, exhaust sounds "Fluttery".  So far I've:

Installed new plugs
New Coil Sticks
Drained the Float Bowls
Cleaned and re-oiled the Air Filter
Checked Vacuum lines


So far, no change in it's performance.  Getting very discouraged with it.

[throb]

Perhaps an electrical gremlin that's reared it's ugly head.  Your post says you put in new plugs and stick coils, but are you certain all plugs are firing?  Maybe a larger vacuum leak too, like a cracked carb boot or one of the band clamps not tightened enough?  Were the plugs black and full of soot?

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Doug, there's just not enough info in your post. What's fluttery - like a little pixie/fairy fluttery  ? fluttery isn't a diagnostic description. Is the bike missing? if so, one cylinder, more than one, and under what circumstances? Steve

[Tele130]

Doug, there's just not enough info in your post. What's fluttery - like a little pixie/fairy fluttery  ? fluttery isn't a diagnostic description. Is the bike missing? if so, one cylinder, more than one, and under what circumstances? Steve

The Fluttering sound from the exhaust reminds me what was happening before I got the Air Box seal properly after the 2 min mod.  No, it doesn't seem like it's missing.  It acts more like fuel starvation...sputtering but not missing.  If I run with the choke on just a little bit it seems much better.

1).  Replace the foam in the air intake port on the air box?
2). Look for an air leak in the system....Air Box, Carb Boots,?

Just a couple guesses.

Thanks for seeing this Steve.

[Daytona_Mike]

Vacuum caps? those rubber things rot fast and leak quick.
Leaky float valve? Over flow tubes (pretty much needed anyway to prevent hydro-lock) will also tell you is a float valve is leaking
Dirt in the carb?
Does it run correctly  when you  do WOT (Wide open throttle) or is it just when cruising/coasting?
When you start the bike up cold is it missing bad on one cylinder? ( that one exhaust pipe will be cold)

[Tele130]

Vacuum caps? those rubber things rot fast and leak quick.
Leaky float valve? Over flow tubes (pretty much needed anyway to prevent hydro-lock) will also tell you is a float valve is leaking
Dirt in the carb?
Does it run correctly  when you  do WOT (Wide open throttle) or is it just when cruising/coasting?
When you start the bike up cold is it missing bad on one cylinder? ( that one exhaust pipe will be cold)

It has Steve's 2 Min mod with OverFlow tubes, Spring of 2010.

Drained the float bowls into a glass jar......nothing seen (but that doesn't mean much).

No.  It runs like it's starving for fuel ALL the time (unless I input a little choke)

I took a squirt bottle of water and carefully squirted each pipe.  They all sizzled and evporated the water on contact.

I'm thinking it's an Air Leak somewhere....................than again, I can only guess.

[Tele130]

If I run with the choke on just a little bit it seems much better.

Which could be indication a plugged Pilot/Jet circuit.  The Enricher/Choke is compensating for the plugged jet making it run better.

Or something like that?  I'm just pulling it out from the backside.

[EmptyG]

Doug - I had a similar day yesterday.  Ran great till I stopped for gas.  Then, started to run rough on the lower end.  Wind it out for awhile, and it would run "better" - idle for awhile and the rough running comes back.  Emptied the carb bowels, lots of little black specs.  So - replaced the fuel line (just in case) but didn't think to check the float levels while I had the hose hooked up to drains so I'll do that tonight.

Basically, I'm figuring that 1) I have/had a stuck float due to crap in the fuel or fuel line deteriorating.  The petcock tested OK yesterday (good thing) so I'm a little relieved about that anyway. 2) I figure some of the crap clogged a jet - I treated the tank with Techron - I'll let that sit and run it a little to see if I get lucky.  Otherwise, I get to pull the carbs for the first time (I just purchased the Connie in March).

Oh Well - too hot to commute on it this week anyway and next week I'm traveling for work.

Good Luck
Mark

[lt1]

One thing I have done to help narrow down the problem is use an IR temp gauge on the header pipes.  I taped a dowell to the gauge so I will be holding the gauge exactly the same distance from the header.

Your ideas sound correct to me.  I had a similar issue on a different bike and it turned out to be a slightly bent slide needle that did not allow the slide to move freely.  Have you also changed the fuel filter?  (I don't have a C10 - assuming they have one.)

[Tele130]

One thing I have done to help narrow down the problem is use an IR temp gauge on the header pipes.  I taped a dowell to the gauge so I will be holding the gauge exactly the same distance from the header.

Your ideas sound correct to me.  I had a similar issue on a different bike and it turned out to be a slightly bent slide needle that did not allow the slide to move freely.  Have you also changed the fuel filter?  (I don't have a C10 - assuming they have one.)

And I just happen to have a "Laser" type temp gauge.  Totally forgot about it till you mentioned it.   Our fuel filter is built into the Petcock.

[MAN OF BLUES]

water in the tank.
add IsoHeet.

[kzz1king]

I am betting on MOB's solution.
 Had a guy on a ride earlier this year using a loaner bike. Ran it low on fuel and after he had switched to reserve it ran like crap. I asked the owner when he had last used reserve. NEVER ! Anyways he added a little dope and it straightened right out. That never works for me. I alwaysend up with 7 gallons of mower gas
Wayne

[Daytona_Mike]

I would assume water would show up in the draining of the fuel bowls but bad gas  is a definite possibility.

Since you say it seems like fuel starvation maybe  tank venting? You could pop the fill cover for a quick test. ( I would not do that with a full tank.
Also if you think fuel starvation how about the clear tubing on the carb drain  nipple and open the drain valve and see if it sets  to the right fuel bowl  height. It probably is correct .  You could  use a long piece of clear tubing and as you lower the tubing (quickly) you can test how fast and how long it takes for the fuel to resume its proper gas level.
I assume you checked the air filter.  You may well have to service the carbs. Do you put that 2 stroke oil in on every gas fill?
TCW3 I think it is . I have to other wise my carbs have to come back off to be cleaned. My bike sits for weeks at a time.

[Steve in Sunny Fla]

Doug - here's something that happened to my bike at the national. VERY weird, and weird to diagnose, but I got it... Basically it would idle fine, and accellerated in first gear with LIGHT throttle fine till about 6k, then it would start missing. Second gear it would start missing at a lower rpm, and 3rd was lower yet. If I tried to use higher gears and just cruise, it had a miss. Let it idle, and it was fine. Of course I thought "bad plug" and / or "bad gas" and checked for both. Then I thought about the good idle, and knew it wouldn't idle well with a bad plug, bad fuel, or a vacuum leak. I figured that the carbs sucked trash into a main jet. Not likely, since I had just put them on 3 weeks before the trip, but hey sh*t happens. I pulled the carb tops, removed the slides, and fished a wire down through the needle jets to the bottom of the bowls. Problem solved! I'm not saying that's your problem, but use all the info you can to help diagnose. How's the idle? at what point does it start to act up? is it RPM or throttle sensitive? Post it up and we'll take a shot at it. Steve

[Tele130]

Thanks Steve. It seems to be throttle sensitive. Idle seems to be good but not perfect (I need to pay closer attention to it tonight).  I was going to go out tonight after work (10pm) and make notes - higher RPM's better or worse. Gear changes have an effect?  RPM range and response.

I think there's something in the carbs that shouldn't be. Ill post up tonight's ride report in the morning.

[snarf]

Good luck Doug.  Im pulling for you 

[txfatboy]

Is it possible that one or more of the diaphragms are leaking and not lifting the needle out of the jet? Have you pulled the plugs since installing them to see if they are black (overly rich) or white "white" (overly lean) ? Or, one plug that looks different than the other three? Also, I know these coils are pretty dependable, but if you pull the plugs to check them, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the resistance of each coil and to inspect the inside of the towers (what the spark plug slides into) to see if there is any burn-through or carbon tracking. All of this can be checked and eliminated in just a few minutes once the tank is off. Good luck.

[Tele130]

Good luck Doug.  Im pulling for you 

She'll be all ready for ya Chris. 

[Tele130]

Is it possible that one or more of the diaphragms are leaking and not lifting the needle out of the jet? Have you pulled the plugs since installing them to see if they are black (overly rich) or white "white" (overly lean) ? Or, one plug that looks different than the other three? Also, I know these coils are pretty dependable, but if you pull the plugs to check them, it wouldn't be a bad idea to check the resistance of each coil and to inspect the inside of the towers (what the spark plug slides into) to see if there is any burn-through or carbon tracking. All of this can be checked and eliminated in just a few minutes once the tank is off. Good luck.

The old plugs that were installed  :owhen this issue arose looked just like they should....a light even gray color (they were two seasons old. ). I installed a new set of Coil Sticks this past Wednesday. Air filter was cleaned and re-oiled.  I have some Seafoam in the tank (less than a half tank) right now and will run that through the bike tonight when I get home. If this doesn't help then I'll pull the carbs and start playing.

I have no idea what I'm doing when it comes to carbs.

[Tele130]

Last night I rode a 65 mile loop with some Seafoam in the tank (1/2 tank fuel, 1/3ish of a bottle of Seafoam).  End result was "No change".  What I noticed:

2nd-3rd & 4th gear running at 3K RPM was experiencing sporadic Bucking.  It felt like it was out of fuel.

It was slow to respond to throttle input.  Required much more throttle movement to get to speed.

The "Fluttering" feel (like it was running out of fuel)  was present throughout the whole ride.  It was worse during acceleration than once at desired speed.

At a stop with no throttle input (Idle) was smooth and dead on.  As soon as the throttle was advanced the problem was there.

I know I'm horrible at descriptions and I apologize.  The "Fluttering" sound is that of a V-Twin like the Ninja 650 or a Ducati.......you know?  That V-Twin Fluttering sound in the exhaust.  It's smooth but not right for an in-line 4.  Does any of that make sense?

Well?  A Doctor or an author I'll never be..........nor a Motorcycle mechanic .  Thanks for all input guys. 

Just a side note for what its worth:  I may be slow trying suggestions made here on the board.  My wife and I work opposite shifts, the kids are home for the summer and we have a "Special Needs" child that requires 95% of you attention all the time.   So summer time maintenance on the bike is no easy task. 

Thanks for the ear.