Engine Failure??? on C10

[T Cro ®]

I don't say the tubes aren't useful.  Just that it's not a fix for the root problem.  Some folks, NOT SiSF, IMO tend to over sell what they do.  What I see as other potential problems I've mentioned before and won't bore everyone again...

I think I'd have to fix the problem between my ears before trying to use it for your fix.  Even the OE petcock is more reliable than *me* remembering to turn a manual one off.  <sigh>

Not to worry I understand EXACTLY where you be coming from......   

As for myself I tend to forget that most people are not like me; in my profession I'm paid to not forget stuff like valves and switches etc....   

Now dang it what was I talking about? I can't seem to remember!   

[Daytona_Mike]

Overflow tubes are the ONLY prevention for hydro lock. Not manual pet cocks and not electronic valves.
Those devices  make  it more likely that you will hydro lock than less.
I know this because I had those (and every other  option/feature discussed here) and I did have a hydrock. I was just lucky I did not bend a rod. That is when I put the fuel system  back to stock and installed over flow tubes. Now there is no chance of hydro locking ever.

[JP]

OK let me get this straight. Mr Dagget sells a perfectly good motorbike to X. X comes back with a blown engine and we now blame hydrolock!?!? BS.
You owe him nothing.
  Stop blaming H-lock for everything. This dam subject is mentioned way too much.

[T Cro ®]

Overflow tubes are the ONLY prevention for hydro lock. Not manual pet cocks and not electronic valves.
Those devices  make  it more likely that you will hydro lock than less.
I know this because I had those (and every other  option/feature discussed here) and I did have a hydrock. I was just lucky I did not bend a rod. That is when I put the fuel system  back to stock and installed over flow tubes. Now there is no chance of hydro locking ever.

Just because your opinions don't match mine I don't argue them as false............. 

[snarf]

OK let me get this straight. Mr Dagget sells a perfectly good motorbike to X. X comes back with a blown engine and we now blame hydrolock!?!? BS.
You owe him nothing.
  Stop blaming H-lock for everything. This dam subject is mentioned way too much.

  Okay I am all ears.  I dont believe anyone here said "by the grace of God it's Hydrolocked"  How many C-10's have you heard of that just up and throw a rod? In your expert opinion why did the bike grenade?

[JP]

  Okay I am all ears.  I dont believe anyone here said "by the grace of God it's Hydrolocked"  How many C-10's have you heard of that just up and throw a rod? In your expert opinion why did the bike grenade?

How did you know I was an expert?
It obviously grenaded when the rod blew out the case. If it stayed in there everything would be OK. 

[Daytona_Mike]

Just because your opinions don't match mine I don't argue them as false............. 

Sorry Tony, That is not my intention. I am just bored at work and I am trying to stir up some trouble in the form of well.. trouble.. 

[Daggett]

Well,

I told the fellow I would put an engine in for him. He's a really nice fellow and his son bought this thing to ride back and forth to his lady friend from college and who am I to stand between a man and his stuff.   He found one for 500.  and it is near me so I had him bring the bike back to me and I will swap them out for him.  I hope I haven't bitten off more than I could chew.  I have replaced bike motors before, but never one with a drive shaft.  If it is like a car, then I'm in like Flint, otherwise, I may be a while.

Thanks for the advice, if there is anything I should know about changing out this powerplant, feel free to overwhelm me with data.  I searched for motor replacement and did not find anything.  I'm assuming that is because they never fail.  I hope it's not because they are such a pain in the ass that it's impossible for a shade tree mech. to do.

[JDM]

Overflow tubes are the ONLY prevention for hydro lock. Not manual pet cocks and not electronic valves.
Those devices  make  it more likely that you will hydro lock than less.
I know this because I had those (and every other  option/feature discussed here) and I did have a hydrock. I was just lucky I did not bend a rod. That is when I put the fuel system  back to stock and installed over flow tubes. Now there is no chance of hydro locking ever.

What happens if your overflow tubes plug up? Then what? " A Black and yellow mud dauber nest in the pitot tubes is believed to have brought down Birgenair Flight 301." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgenair_Flight_301

[T Cro ®]

Sorry Tony, That is not my intention. I am just bored at work and I am trying to stir up some trouble in the form of well.. trouble.. 

Giggle-Laugh-Snort

Got to admit I appreciate your honesty....

[bbroj]

What happens if your overflow tubes plug up? Then what? " A Black and yellow mud dauber nest in the pitot tubes is believed to have brought down Birgenair Flight 301." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birgenair_Flight_301

Steve provides drain tubes and a manifold to connect the tubes to the drain/overflow nipples. Not saying it can't happen, but it's unlikely a wasp would nest in a tube on a regularly (if you're among the lucky ones) ridden bike. Also, checking the system periodically, like at oil change time as previously mentioned, will help to insure all is right in the Connie world. Not sure, but wouldn't gasoline eat its way through a mud block? The tubes themselves will hold a small volume of gas as well, granted, not a full tanks worth...

[T Cro ®]

  Okay I am all ears.  I dont believe anyone here said "by the grace of God it's Hydrolocked"  How many C-10's have you heard of that just up and throw a rod? In your expert opinion why did the bike grenade?

That's an easy one almost any that has ever been dropped by the owner while still running and continued to run for a short but undetermined amount of time stand a very good chance of oil starvation to which sometime later down the road the engine may "just up and throw a rod"....

Want a few more? 

[Cybercraig]

Ehhhhhhhh, ummmmmmmmmmmmmm, ain't too likely. Your bike would be in neutral (most likely) and under virtually no load. Remember the old ZX-1100 rod droppers? Lots of wheelies at high rpm going fast for considerable distances led to oil starvation as it left the pick-up tube uncovered and dry and eventual journal scoring ensued. But it did take a while. I would be more worried about a meteor conking me on the head.

[Cybercraig]

Well,

I told the fellow I would put an engine in for him. He's a really nice fellow and his son bought this thing to ride back and forth to his lady friend from college and who am I to stand between a man and his stuff.   He found one for 500.  and it is near me so I had him bring the bike back to me and I will swap them out for him.  I hope I haven't bitten off more than I could chew.  I have replaced bike motors before, but never one with a drive shaft.  If it is like a car, then I'm in like Flint, otherwise, I may be a while.

Thanks for the advice, if there is anything I should know about changing out this powerplant, feel free to overwhelm me with data.  I searched for motor replacement and did not find anything.  I'm assuming that is because they never fail.  I hope it's not because they are such a pain in the ass that it's impossible for a shade tree mech. to do.

Well now you've done it! You've practically assumed responsibility for the new engine running good too! Ohhhhhhhhh Nooooooooooooooo! 

[RFH87_Connie]

I would not get involved with the engine swap.  Maybe buy him the engine and step away if you are worried about a court case.  He may find more things not to his liking and tell you to fix them to. 

Here's what mine did.  Does yours look familiar?  Swapping an engine is time consuming, especially when you want to go thru and service everything else while doing it like I do.  The first thing I did was finally bobbed the fender on this one.  Then I pulled all the plastics off and washed them.  Then drained the oil and flushed all the coolant out.  The list goes on from here.  You will want an assistant (or 3) when moving the engine around and removing or installing one.

You'll love that little pin in the drive shaft.  I had to unbolt the dog bones on the shock and loosen the swing arm bearings for it to come loose.  I think it just barely tweaks on the output spine and wants to fight.  I hope to drop the blown motor tonight - its just being held in with 4 screw drivers now.  I just need to find a willing neighbor or 2.  I have beer if anyone is interested.

I would think mine was not oil starved, but i'm not sure.  I drained over 2.5 quarts out.  I thought it would have been less.  The oil was just changed 3 weeks earlier with Hondaline 10w40 (i've used this in all my bikes forever except for when Golden Specrto was on sale).  It was the third rod as I suspected in the picture.  The rod cap must be laying in the pan.  Not sure how a hydro-lock would actually impact the rod bolt or rod bearing though because that seems to be what let go.  Thoughts anyone?

[snarf]

That's an easy one almost any that has ever been dropped by the owner while still running and continued to run for a short but undetermined amount of time stand a very good chance of oil starvation to which sometime later down the road the engine may "just up and throw a rod"....

Want a few more? 

No Sir that should just about quench my thirst for knowledge.  I just hadnt heard of many connies busting rods.  I think RFH was the first I had every heard.  A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

[Boomer]

Ahhh, it's the good old #3 failure.
Happened to a friend (Jesal).
Details and pics are here http://gtr1000.com/graphics/gearbox/jesal.htm
The long and short of it is that the oilway to the big end bearing gets blocked, the bearing runs dry and shortly thereafter the motor converts itself to a triple with a total loss oil system. 
After seeing this I run Wynns Engine Flush at every other oil change now.

What is funny is that I decided to see if it would start like this.
It did, it even idled but much over 1500rpm the vibes were so bad ya couldn't hold the throttle.

Yours is the 3rd C10 motor I have heard of that died like this.

[T Cro ®]

Ahhh, it's the good old #3 failure.

Yes there is indeed a weak point on this design of motor; I've read of the same with the ZRX, ZZR and ZX motor too.

[Cybercraig]

I would not get involved with the engine swap.  Maybe buy him the engine and step away if you are worried about a court case.  He may find more things not to his liking and tell you to fix them to. 

Here's what mine did.  Does yours look familiar?  Swapping an engine is time consuming, especially when you want to go thru and service everything else while doing it like I do.  The first thing I did was finally bobbed the fender on this one.  Then I pulled all the plastics off and washed them.  Then drained the oil and flushed all the coolant out.  The list goes on from here.  You will want an assistant (or 3) when moving the engine around and removing or installing one.

You'll love that little pin in the drive shaft.  I had to unbolt the dog bones on the shock and loosen the swing arm bearings for it to come loose.  I think it just barely tweaks on the output spine and wants to fight.  I hope to drop the blown motor tonight - its just being held in with 4 screw drivers now.  I just need to find a willing neighbor or 2.  I have beer if anyone is interested.

I would think mine was not oil starved, but i'm not sure.  I drained over 2.5 quarts out.  I thought it would have been less.  The oil was just changed 3 weeks earlier with Hondaline 10w40 (i've used this in all my bikes forever except for when Golden Specrto was on sale).  It was the third rod as I suspected in the picture.  The rod cap must be laying in the pan.  Not sure how a hydro-lock would actually impact the rod bolt or rod bearing though because that seems to be what let go.  Thoughts anyone?

Heck, get a new rod and bearing and pop it on there and then fill the hole up with JB Weld. Good as new! As soon as you give it back to him, move!

[T Cro ®]

Heck, get a new rod and bearing and pop it on there and then fill the hole up with JB Weld. Good as new! As soon as you give it back to him, move!

You could use hardened shoe leather as a rod bearing too.....