Author Topic: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery ... (aka Plasma Ball Saga)  (Read 31764 times)

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #60 on: December 19, 2017, 03:51:05 AM »
Well, it is just muddy waters and all. One more thing to complicate an already confusing issue, and best to be avoided IMO. That is assuming someone just wants the bike to work; if tinkering around and interested in learning things than by all means tinker away and enjoy (that is what I often do but it takes a lot of time and often does not result in moving forward).

Brian

Great info thanks Brian.  Though I'm aware of the difference I hadn't thought of the TPMS frequency issue.
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Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #61 on: December 20, 2017, 11:14:56 AM »
I have a used eBay DFI ECU that I plan on sending to Steve.  I will install it first and have it sync'd (KDS3) to verify that it operates my bike per Steve's recomendation.  If it checks out on the road then I will purchase the Mountain Runner Flash.  This can't happen until I get an operational KIPASS ECU of course. 

I just shipped the broken KIPASS ECU off to these guys:

                PSI REPAIR SERVICES, INC
                11900  MAYFIELD
                LIVONIA,  MI  48150
                ATTN: REPAIRS

If they can replace the shorted diode then I will put everything back together and check for smoke.  PSI said that they won't charge me a diagnostic fee.  Their basic repair charge is around $175 and will result in an approximate recovery cost of $250 when everything is added up.  Then I'll have the dealer hook it up to KDS3 and sync the 'new' DFI ECU to the KIPASS system.  Oh yeah, the dealer effort will cost about $100.  So make it $350.  No, wait.  I have to rent a trailer to get my bike to the dealer.  Add another $50.  OK, $400 total for the KIPASS stuff.  The DFI ECU recovery will total approximately $550 (used ECU and replace the flash).  Yep, that's $950 or so.

If the broken KIPASS ECU is beyond economical repair then I will have to get another one.  I'm still looking around for a used one w/fobs.  If I can't locate a used KIPASS ECU in the time it takes PSI to evaluate and attempt to repair the broken unit then I will probably take out a loan (Credit Card) and buy a new KIPASS ECU set.  I've seen them priced from $950 to $1200.

Yes, this experience has been a PITA but I learned a ton.  I can't count the number of times I have been advised to scrap the bike and "part it out".  My friends don't understand that this is just a bump along this road that I'm on.  Most of them don't ride and I can't adequately explain why I am so adamant about getting back on 2 wheels - on this motorcycle.  I'll see this through and keep the thread going until my bike is back on the road.  It makes for interesting reading at the very least.

Offline gPink

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #62 on: December 20, 2017, 11:55:35 AM »
Endeavor to persevere.

Online VirginiaJim

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #63 on: December 20, 2017, 04:30:26 PM »
+1
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Offline Freddy

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #64 on: December 20, 2017, 05:35:18 PM »
+ 1 more.   :chugbeer:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #65 on: December 20, 2017, 08:34:19 PM »
Yep, don't let anyone push you away from your Concours.  How can a non-motorcylist possibly understand our bond?
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2018, 05:45:55 PM »
But wait, it gets better!

And, yes, it has been a long, long, long time since the last installment to this thread.  I haven't rode this bike since November of last year.

Here goes:

I am still waiting for PSI to return a repaired KIPASS ECU to me.  The cost is $400 with no warranty.  Awesome (not really).

You may recall that I had abused the electrical system on my Connie to the point that the battery failed and took the bike down hard.  I have since replaced the DFI ECU with a used EBAY version.  The KIPASS ECU is brand new and came complete with 2 fobs with registration numbers.  I just got it back from the shop where they hooked it up to KDS3 and got all the new/used ECU's to cooperate.  The procedure was successful but not without complications.  The mechanic said that the bike is now throwing ABS related codes (43, 52, 53, and 55) so I am not out of the woods just yet.

I rode it home this morning.  In addition to the ABS light remaining lit I have observed the following:
- No speedo indication, it doesn't even flinch
- Turn signals don't work, the light comes on solid on the cluster
- The trip odometers don't work, the LCD display works - the number doesn't increment

That's all I had time to notice because I parked/covered it and left for work.  I pulled out my greasy/torn owners manual (pdf version) and dug into the first problem - ABS.  Did you know that there is an ABS ECU?  I didn't.  It's inside the Hydraulic Unit.  That makes 4 ECUs that I know of (KIPASS, DFI, SLU, and ABS).  Based on what I have read so far the Hydraulic unit may also be toast.  In the event that I do need to replace it does anyone know what the part number is?

Anyhow, I am not surprised that there are other electrical issues that are popping up.  I am experiencing something similar to when my house was struck by lighting many years ago.  The electrical transient fried every electrical/electronic thing in my house.  I will look into the instrument cluster next.

On the bright side?  I didn't blow any fuses.  Can I get a hell yeah?

Online VirginiaJim

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2018, 05:47:03 PM »
Hell Yeah!
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Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2018, 05:50:00 PM »

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2018, 07:19:46 PM »
Can I just replace the electronics on the ABS pump?  It appears that it may be possible based on what I read in related posts.  And, if it is possible, does anyone have a pump where I can cannibalize the electronics or know of a source?
« Last Edit: February 08, 2018, 10:12:46 PM by Tree »

Offline Freddy

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2018, 08:54:09 PM »
ABS fault code 52 & 53 are for low and high voltages and are probably historic given your troubles.  55 is for 'ECU trouble (ECU operation abnormal)' and may or may not be historic.  43 is 'Front wheel rotation sensor wiring abnormal (wiring shorted or open)' and may active.  There is a simple procedure for clearing stored fault codes in the ABS unit.  Do that, then do a short ride to see what the current active fault code is as the others will not show.

The following may give some helpful info.  Let's know if more needed.

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=21794.msg270762#msg270762

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=20676.105

http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-14-zg1400-general-chat-and-tech/2008-concours-14-abs-issue/
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Freddy

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2018, 08:58:45 PM »

I rode it home this morning.  In addition to the ABS light remaining lit I have observed the following:
- No speedo indication, it doesn't even flinch
- Turn signals don't work, the light comes on solid on the cluster
- The trip odometers don't work, the LCD display works - the number doesn't increment


Given that the speedo & trip meters don't work I'd suspect a faulty sensor on the drive line and perhaps a faulty flasher relay.  I'd try used items.
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2018, 09:35:47 PM »
Wow- that is just a lot of stuff that apparently got fried.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2018, 09:54:15 PM »
Wow- that is just a lot of stuff that apparently got fried.

I haven't really had a chance to properly check the bike out since I got it out of the shop either.  I'm sure there is more.

Offline Freddy

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #74 on: February 09, 2018, 12:02:40 AM »
does anyone have a pump where I can cannibalize the electronics or know of a source?

Only someone that had the dreaded rear brake failure issue and has replaced it.  They're available on ebay and those earlier posts of mine with links show that a European ASB unit from a 2006-2011 ZZR1400 (ZX14) bike will do the job.

Good luck with it and seems you're doing a great job after traumatic experiences.   :chugbeer:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #75 on: February 09, 2018, 02:52:48 PM »
It's so nice to have a hobby. [insert sarcastic smiley here]

Recent findings:
- No headlights, low or high.  The smaller lights are out also.  With the motor running or not. (relay? Signal?)
- When the turn indicator or emergency flasher switch is actuated the front and rear lights do not come on, but... there is a buzzing sound that appears to be coming from the KIPASS ECU. The buzz  stops when the turn indicator/hazard switches are returned to normal. What? (This I do not get a warm N fuzzy feeling from)
- When the key is pushed and turned to ON I see some reaction from the cluster LCD display and gauges. Key switch symbol shows up, the speedo and tach needles sweep full to the right and come back to zero, the LCD can be manually cycled through all screens/sub-screens with the black push-buttons.  I think the cluster is functioning OK.  The speedo doesn't indicate speed when the bike is driven which points to a signal problem?

I removed and inserted the new KIPASS ECU with no changes in symptoms.  I had to stop and get my butt to work.  These 14 hours days are kicking my a$$.

Thanks to all of you who have offered suggestions.  It would be a full time job for me to keep track of which suggestions I tried or not and thank individuals so please don't feel bad if I don't answer each post.  I hope you guys understand.  Keep 'em coming - the ones that gets me back on the road will definitely get mentioned.

One thing that I wonder about now is where are all of the electronic bits are on this bike?  I suspect that anything with a chip or discreet electronic components could have been damaged when the 12V system went south.

I'm thinking about changing the name of this post to "This is what happens when you screw with your electrical system".

Offline Justcliff

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #76 on: February 09, 2018, 03:42:24 PM »
First off let me say I haven't read through this post, but your last post sounds similar to a problem I had. I far as I know it's not a common one, but a real pain to find.

My symptoms, headlights out, city lights out, same buzzing, blinkers not working but all burned steady & very dim, high beam indicator & signal indicator stayed on. Don't remember about the cluster.

I ended up finding a ground block in the harness corroded up. There are 11 of these blocks thru out the harness best I can remember. You can feel small rectangles in the harness, 1/2" or so.

My bad one was right near the air filter access. I cut it out & soldered the wires together & put a wire nut on it. That's been probably 60,000 miles now with no more trouble.

I would post a picture of it but haven't figured out the pictures here.     

 
Cliff

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Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #77 on: February 09, 2018, 04:36:52 PM »
First off let me say I haven't read through this post, but your last post sounds similar to a problem I had. I far as I know it's not a common one, but a real pain to find.

My symptoms, headlights out, city lights out, same buzzing, blinkers not working but all burned steady & very dim, high beam indicator & signal indicator stayed on. Don't remember about the cluster.

I ended up finding a ground block in the harness corroded up. There are 11 of these blocks thru out the harness best I can remember. You can feel small rectangles in the harness, 1/2" or so.

My bad one was right near the air filter access. I cut it out & soldered the wires together & put a wire nut on it. That's been probably 60,000 miles now with no more trouble.

I would post a picture of it but haven't figured out the pictures here.

I will look at that first when I rip the plastic off this weekend.  Thanks for the post.

Sometimes electrical troubleshooting is similar to attempting to find a black cat in a room with the lights off, all the time while wearing oven mitts.  I've located electrical/electronic faults in power plants the size of a city block - easy.  This one is sitting right in front of me and laughing its ass off.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2018, 11:14:59 AM by Tree »

Offline Freddy

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #78 on: February 09, 2018, 06:27:28 PM »
Cliff, it's good that you haven't read the whole thread - tooo sad :yikes:  - but a great post.   :hail:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #79 on: February 10, 2018, 01:07:49 AM »
First off let me say I haven't read through this post, but your last post sounds similar to a problem I had. I far as I know it's not a common one, but a real pain to find.

My symptoms, headlights out, city lights out, same buzzing, blinkers not working but all burned steady & very dim, high beam indicator & signal indicator stayed on. Don't remember about the cluster.

I ended up finding a ground block in the harness corroded up. There are 11 of these blocks thru out the harness best I can remember. You can feel small rectangles in the harness, 1/2" or so.

My bad one was right near the air filter access. I cut it out & soldered the wires together & put a wire nut on it. That's been probably 60,000 miles now with no more trouble.

I would post a picture of it but haven't figured out the pictures here.   


The Honda Blackbird (both Carb & FI) suffered from the same "Ground block corrosion" issue which caused all sorts of odd issues with the FI,charging  etc.

Again the fix was to break the connector apart, strip back to clean wire and then solder together


Honda Blackbird Loom Fix
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