Author Topic: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery ... (aka Plasma Ball Saga)  (Read 31689 times)

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #100 on: February 19, 2018, 10:44:27 PM »

EXTREMELY happy with my last JDM AStar LED city lights.  FINALLY brighter than yellow incandescent!


I've read about your frustrations with LED brightness.  Are you saying that there is an LED City Light out there that you prefer to incandescent?!?  What do you have?  I still have time to upgrade those too!

This may be hard to believe but is worth a look: No Load Resistor LED https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwjtMmGJN3M

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #101 on: February 20, 2018, 12:45:40 AM »
I've read about your frustrations with LED brightness.  Are you saying that there is an LED City Light out there that you prefer to incandescent?!?  What do you have?  I still have time to upgrade those too!

This may be hard to believe but is worth a look: No Load Resistor LED https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwjtMmGJN3M


that guy is so bloody annoying!!
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Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #102 on: February 20, 2018, 05:16:00 AM »

that guy is so bloody annoying!!

Yeah, he is.  Painfully annoying.  I also get annoyed with myself for falling in line with the next, latest, best, new/improved gadget that promises to make my life easier and is sooooo much better that what I already have in my hand.  Maybe the next, best thing in lighting is just what I need!!!  Maybe not.  Probably not.  I am thankful I'm not riding around with a gaslight!

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #103 on: February 20, 2018, 05:44:52 AM »

that guy is so bloody annoying!!

You can say that again.  Anyway, I wouldn't buy them because I would expect their life to be much shorter.  Might be OK for a turn signal, since it is on so rarely... but marker lights and tail lights, no.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #104 on: February 20, 2018, 05:49:08 AM »
You can say that again.  Anyway, I wouldn't buy them because I would expect their life to be much shorter.  Might be OK for a turn signal, since it is on so rarely... but marker lights and tail lights, no.

But you did make the leap to LED City Lights, right?  What did you go with if you don't mind me asking?

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #105 on: February 20, 2018, 05:50:07 AM »
I've read about your frustrations with LED brightness.  Are you saying that there is an LED City Light out there that you prefer to incandescent?!?  What do you have?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018GYMOZ0  Been great for almost 2 years now.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #106 on: February 20, 2018, 05:50:49 AM »
But you did make the leap to LED City Lights, right? 

And turn signals
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #107 on: February 20, 2018, 05:57:32 AM »
You can say that again.  Anyway, I wouldn't buy them because I would expect their life to be much shorter.  Might be OK for a turn signal, since it is on so rarely... but marker lights and tail lights, no.

Yep, call me right.  https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071VTS4WS

"Warning: Replace EITHER the front or the rear turn signal bulbs, but you can't replace both, otherwise you will still get hyper flash; You CAN'T use it for constant light up such as driving lights, daytime running lights; Even though these LED replacement bulbs will not hyper flash on turn signal lights, but they are still NOT "Error Free" for European cars; There is a protection IC inside, so each turn signal cycle cannot exceed 8 minutes.  ONLY good for front or rear AO (Amber-Off-Amber-Off) type turn signal light use (Can't not be used for both front and rear together) "

Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #108 on: February 20, 2018, 06:32:15 AM »
You would probably feel a LOT better if you could comfort yourself with a ShamWow. Have you heard of them?  ::) ???

 ;D

Brian

Yeah, he is.  Painfully annoying.  I also get annoyed with myself for falling in line with the next, latest, best, new/improved gadget that promises to make my life easier and is sooooo much better that what I already have in my hand.  Maybe the next, best thing in lighting is just what I need!!!  Maybe not.  Probably not.  I am thankful I'm not riding around with a gaslight!
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline gPink

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #109 on: February 20, 2018, 06:57:54 AM »
...but wait ...there's more!

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #110 on: February 20, 2018, 07:06:25 AM »
And turn signals
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B018GYMOZ0  Been great for almost 2 years now.

I think I need to pay attention better, or change my meds, or both.  I thought that the electronic turn signal relay negated the need for load resistors when making the switch to LED turn signals, all four "bulbs" (or two on the same side).  There would be no "Hyper-Flash".  That's what I was lead to believe as far as the electronic relay is concerned.  Now it seems to me that the circuit still requires an incandescent bulb in the circuit to provide the required resistance to ground, otherwise a parallel load resistor needs to be in the circuit if LED's are used exclusively for turn signals.

My understanding is that the hyper-Flash is a function of the monitoring circuitry (provided by the KIPASS ECU) as it is designed to detect turn indicator issues and warn the rider/driver.  Typically (prior to the advent of LED use anyway) the problem is a burnt out incandescent bulb which the monitoring system sees as a very high resistance in the circuit.  The ECU then pulses the KIPASS signal relay faster to indicate a problem.  The monitoring system "sees" a reverse biased LED as an open circuit too so it issues a false hyper-flash.  Also, if LED's and load resistances are installed then the monitoring function is essentially bypassed and the rider will not receive an indication of a bad LED turn signal.

The City Lights are not monitored by KIPASS as far as I can tell so a direct replacement (sans resistor) is OK.

So, I am unclear as to what I need to do with my turn indicator mod.  If I want LED on front and rear turn indicators I think I will need at least one parallel resistance installed to satisfy the monitoring circuit.

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #111 on: February 20, 2018, 07:08:51 AM »
You would probably feel a LOT better if you could comfort yourself with a ShamWow. Have you heard of them?  ::) ???

 ;D

Brian

...but wait ...there's more!

Wasn't that some guy named Bobby Flay or something?  Shysters and shucksters.

"And if you act within the next five minutes you can have a bonus of two crappy products for the price of one.  Don't miss out on this amazing offer!!!"

Offline gPink

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #112 on: February 20, 2018, 07:24:29 AM »

Offline mikeyw64

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #113 on: February 20, 2018, 08:06:33 AM »
I think I'm going mad now.

I don't recall seeing a bulb failure warning system on the GTR ?


Yes you have the L&R telltales but they work even if the system starts hyperflashing


I think I need to pay attention better, or change my meds, or both.  I thought that the electronic turn signal relay negated the need for load resistors when making the switch to LED turn signals, all four "bulbs" (or two on the same side).  There would be no "Hyper-Flash".  That's what I was lead to believe as far as the electronic relay is concerned.  Now it seems to me that the circuit still requires an incandescent bulb in the circuit to provide the required resistance to ground, otherwise a parallel load resistor needs to be in the circuit if LED's are used exclusively for turn signals.

My understanding is that the hyper-Flash is a function of the monitoring circuitry (provided by the KIPASS ECU) as it is designed to detect turn indicator issues and warn the rider/driver.  Typically (prior to the advent of LED use anyway) the problem is a burnt out incandescent bulb which the monitoring system sees as a very high resistance in the circuit.  The ECU then pulses the KIPASS signal relay faster to indicate a problem.  The monitoring system "sees" a reverse biased LED as an open circuit too so it issues a false hyper-flash.  Also, if LED's and load resistances are installed then the monitoring function is essentially bypassed and the rider will not receive an indication of a bad LED turn signal.

The City Lights are not monitored by KIPASS as far as I can tell so a direct replacement (sans resistor) is OK.

So, I am unclear as to what I need to do with my turn indicator mod.  If I want LED on front and rear turn indicators I think I will need at least one parallel resistance installed to satisfy the monitoring circuit.
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Offline B.D.F.

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #114 on: February 20, 2018, 09:42:51 AM »
There is no 'bulb out' warning system on the C-14, to the best of my knowledge.

Honestly, not really sure what is going on in this thread but it <seems> like the stator problem thread has a little part about rapid flashing of turn signal indicators, probably caused by substituting tungsten bulbs with LEDs. A common problem because some older type flashers use the current load of filament bulbs to 'time' them and when that current is cut by 99% (or whatever it is) the flashers go bonkers (technical term meaning they do not perform in a usable manner). Otherwise, I am having trouble following at least some, and perhaps all, of Tree's situation and problems. Which is fine of course 'cause I do not have to understand and he is getting help it seems so the world is still a great place. And I got to stick a 'Sham Wow' into this thread and hey, it is always  fun when you can stick a ShamWow anyplace IMO (Easy Boys!).

As to your going mad, I have no idea about that and so will not comment on it. Perhaps you could look in a mirror and see if you strike yourself as looking odd or unusual in some way (that is an expression: please do not strike yourself but if you find that idea appealing, we will not be needing any mirror tests.....).

Brian

I think I'm going mad now.

I don't recall seeing a bulb failure warning system on the GTR ?


Yes you have the L&R telltales but they work even if the system starts hyperflashing
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline just gone

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #115 on: February 20, 2018, 10:49:16 AM »
I think I need to pay attention better, or change my meds, or both.  I thought that the electronic turn signal relay negated the need for load resistors when making the switch to LED turn signals, all four "bulbs" (or two on the same side).  There would be no "Hyper-Flash".  That's what I was lead to believe as far as the electronic relay is concerned.  Now it seems to me that the circuit still requires an incandescent bulb in the circuit to provide the required resistance to ground, otherwise a parallel load resistor needs to be in the circuit if LED's are used exclusively for turn signals.

My understanding is that the hyper-Flash is a function of the monitoring circuitry (provided by the KIPASS ECU) as it is designed to detect turn indicator issues and warn the rider/driver.  Typically (prior to the advent of LED use anyway) the problem is a burnt out incandescent bulb which the monitoring system sees as a very high resistance in the circuit.  The ECU then pulses the KIPASS signal relay faster to indicate a problem.  The monitoring system "sees" a reverse biased LED as an open circuit too so it issues a false hyper-flash.  Also, if LED's and load resistances are installed then the monitoring function is essentially bypassed and the rider will not receive an indication of a bad LED turn signal.

The City Lights are not monitored by KIPASS as far as I can tell so a direct replacement (sans resistor) is OK.

So, I am unclear as to what I need to do with my turn indicator mod.  If I want LED on front and rear turn indicators I think I will need at least one parallel resistance installed to satisfy the monitoring circuit.

I have a two wire electronic turn signal flasher, and LED turn signals front and rear and all works well with no load or ballast resistors of any kind. I can not detect any monitoring circuitry in the wiring diagram. The closest that the KIPASS comes to monitoring the system is that it controls the ground circuit to a relay coil that makes the "KIPASS FLASH"  when you turn the ignition on or off. It would have no way of knowing if any of the bulbs are burned out or even in the socket as all it does see is the relay coil, not the circuitry that the coil causes to be energized. You may be getting off track by some of the things max' is saying about the LED lights hawked by the annoying guy mentioned earlier.

However if we could get back to your bike and it's....ahem... "stator problem", let me see if I can summarize where we are (or do I need to pay attention better or get back on my meds?)
 (1)The light circuits are all good now but just need bulbs or LEDs (correct?)
(2) there are still ABS codes present that will not clear or are continuing to be reset after clearing?
 (3) The speedometer still doesn't work when the bike is moving but it does during the initial start up of the ignition on.
(4) We have concluded that there is not really a problem with the stator and it seems to be supplying power to the bike and charging the battery (correct?)
(5) Other than the above mentioned problems are there any that I missed or is everything else OK?

If I'm correct about (4), Tree, would you consider going back to your first post and adding a "(not really)" to the subject line right after "Stator Problem?" so that someone a year from now doesn't go all through this thread looking for stator information and end up replacing their turn signal bulbs in hopes of rescuing their stator?  :)

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #116 on: February 20, 2018, 12:48:22 PM »

I have a two wire electronic turn signal flasher, and LED turn signals front and rear and all works well with no load or ballast resistors of any kind. I can not detect any monitoring circuitry in the wiring diagram. The closest that the KIPASS comes to monitoring the system is that it controls the ground circuit to a relay coil that makes the "KIPASS FLASH"  when you turn the ignition on or off. It would have no way of knowing if any of the bulbs are burned out or even in the socket as all it does see is the relay coil, not the circuitry that the coil causes to be energized. You may be getting off track by some of the things max' is saying about the LED lights hawked by the annoying guy mentioned earlier.

However if we could get back to your bike and it's....ahem... "stator problem", let me see if I can summarize where we are (or do I need to pay attention better or get back on my meds?)
 (1)The light circuits are all good now but just need bulbs or LEDs (correct?)
(2) there are still ABS codes present that will not clear or are continuing to be reset after clearing?
 (3) The speedometer still doesn't work when the bike is moving but it does during the initial start up of the ignition on.
(4) We have concluded that there is not really a problem with the stator and it seems to be supplying power to the bike and charging the battery (correct?)
(5) Other than the above mentioned problems are there any that I missed or is everything else OK?

If I'm correct about (4), Tree, would you consider going back to your first post and adding a "(not really)" to the subject line right after "Stator Problem?" so that someone a year from now doesn't go all through this thread looking for stator information and end up replacing their turn signal bulbs in hopes of rescuing their stator?  :)

(1) Lighting circuits all checked out good.  The bulbs were all bad.  Upgrading to LED 'cause I can. Thank you for the clarification on the load resistor/electronic relay question.
(2) I'm still operating on the report from my Stealer Mechanic who said that there were ABS codes.  I haven't gotten to the point of verifying that since I have been wrapped up in the lighting circuit.  I did note that the ABS light remained ON the entire time I was riding from the shop to the house.
(3) The speedo did not indicate when I rode the bike the 2 miles from the dealer to my place.  I did test the cluster functions per the owners manual and the speedo does operate.  The needles for the speedo and odo sweep to the right and left when the ignition switch is placed in ON.  This is still something I will have to address.
(4) Stator seems to be just fine.  Charging circuit operating normally.  Voltage shows 14.4V on the cluster.
(5) I could use a hug.

I went back and updated the topic title.  I didn't know I could do that.  Cool.   8)  I initially entitled it Stator Problem because I was concerned that I had compromised my electrical charging system when I was working through the Shorted Frankenstein Switch.  Which, if Y'all remember, started out with the dreaded stuck switch inside the SLU.  As it turns out I did compromise my electrical system and the battery took the biggest hit, and it hit back.

I could check the operation of the headlight, City Light circuit today but I am waiting on bulbs from Amazon.  I realize now that those bulbs are readily available from the local auto parts place but I already paid for the other stuff.

I will, more than likely, uncover other affected broken stuff as I slowly recover this machine.  I suspect that this thread is not near completion just now.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #117 on: February 20, 2018, 03:25:26 PM »
I think I need to pay attention better, or change my meds, or both.  I thought that the electronic turn signal relay negated the need for load resistors when making the switch to LED turn signals, all four "bulbs" (or two on the same side).  There would be no "Hyper-Flash".

Correct

Quote
  Now it seems to me that the circuit still requires an incandescent bulb in the circuit to provide the required resistance to ground, otherwise a parallel load resistor needs to be in the circuit if LED's are used exclusively for turn signals.

I have not had that problem.

Quote
My understanding is that the hyper-Flash is a function of the monitoring circuitry (provided by the KIPASS ECU) as it is designed to detect turn indicator issues and warn the rider/driver.

Nope.  Nothing of the sort.  The ECU has no idea on the C14 if the turn signals are on, it doesn't monitor or control turn signals.  Hyperflash is simply mechanical.  Because there isn't enough load on the heater strip in the old/mechanical blinker relay, it just flashes much much faster than it should.

Quote
So, I am unclear as to what I need to do with my turn indicator mod.  If I want LED on front and rear turn indicators I think I will need at least one parallel resistance installed to satisfy the monitoring circuit.

Nope.  Your choice is to either put load resistors on them OR switch to a solid state flasher relay.   The choice is easy :)
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Tree

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Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #118 on: February 20, 2018, 03:41:53 PM »
OK.  I am now waiting very impatiently for the Amazon Delivery.  I got something very cool on the way from Kriss Industries too.  I'm not gonna say what it is until I install and test it.  I got enough egg on my face already.   :P


Thanks for the clarity Max.

Offline maxtog

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Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #119 on: February 20, 2018, 04:11:30 PM »
OK.  I am now waiting very impatiently for the Amazon Delivery.  I got something very cool on the way from Kriss Industries too.  I'm not gonna say what it is until I install and test it.  I got enough egg on my face already.   :P

Thanks for the clarity Max.

Well, to be fair, a lot of this is complicated stuff.... especially when you are trying to research which bulbs.  I know I went through it all and gave up several times and burned a few, before I finally found what works.  There ARE some vehicles that control the turn signals with the ECU.  There ARE some vehicles that monitor bulbs with various methods.  And there ARE bulbs that are crappy, too dim, have horrible light dispersal, burn out quickly, don't fit inside the housings, etc, etc.  Now add marketing nonsense, poorly worded "specifications", flat out lies about "lumens" (brightness), lack of clarification on how something works or what it fits, photos that are "typical" and not the "actual" product, changes in the product without changing model numbers, and reviews that don't match the product, or spread wrong info, or are fake, or were for some other vehicle not specified, and it just makes you want to scream!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc