Author Topic: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery ... (aka Plasma Ball Saga)  (Read 32037 times)

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #120 on: February 20, 2018, 05:37:49 PM »
Yep, I remember that part, and I have followed along with your posts about the ECU, the KiPass ECU and so forth. And I follow part of this. But I do not understand how filament light bulbs could have been damaged by whatever you did to the bike's wiring or electrical systems? I know you damaged or think you damaged the rectifier / regulator, and that is fine, but even if that fried and would have allowed a huge surge in voltage, the battery and the rest of the electrical circuits should have provided more than enough resistance to prevent the alternator from reaching high enough voltages to cause incandescent filaments to actually break. Over voltage would cause too much current but not likely enough to blow out filaments. Further, the alternator is not an unlimited current device and it has a max. capacity, at which point its own windings would open thereby stop any further current flow anyway. I guess in short I am saying I am not having much success thinking of a scenario where a vehicle's electrical system and so many 'downwind' components could be damaged with nothing but the electrical equipment on the bike in the first place.

Not saying you did not and do not have this problem, and not saying it is not exactly what you are saying it is, just that I have no experience and cannot conceive of any condition / situation that could cause such wide- reaching damage to so many [really hard to damage] components, such as headlights.

Perhaps a better way to put it is I cannot think of any way I could cause such damage on purpose, given time and planning as you seem to have. Again, not saying you are not right, just that it is totally puzzling to me and I cannot make any logical sense of it. ??

And of course, I am not asking you to have this make sense to me 'cause that is not your job, it is my failing. At any rate, I will follow along such as I can and will help if or when I think it might be of some benefit to you. And of course, sorry to hear of this misfortune as it is really the worst case of vehicle electrical damage I have ever heard of and will be hugely expensive as well as exasperating, finding all the individual parts one at a time.

Brian

(1) Lighting circuits all checked out good.  The bulbs were all bad.  Upgrading to LED 'cause I can. Thank you for the clarification on the load resistor/electronic relay question.
(2) I'm still operating on the report from my Stealer Mechanic who said that there were ABS codes.  I haven't gotten to the point of verifying that since I have been wrapped up in the lighting circuit.  I did note that the ABS light remained ON the entire time I was riding from the shop to the house.
(3) The speedo did not indicate when I rode the bike the 2 miles from the dealer to my place.  I did test the cluster functions per the owners manual and the speedo does operate.  The needles for the speedo and odo sweep to the right and left when the ignition switch is placed in ON.  This is still something I will have to address.
(4) Stator seems to be just fine.  Charging circuit operating normally.  Voltage shows 14.4V on the cluster.
(5) I could use a hug.

I went back and updated the topic title.  I didn't know I could do that.  Cool.   8)  I initially entitled it Stator Problem because I was concerned that I had compromised my electrical charging system when I was working through the Shorted Frankenstein Switch.  Which, if Y'all remember, started out with the dreaded stuck switch inside the SLU.  As it turns out I did compromise my electrical system and the battery took the biggest hit, and it hit back.

I could check the operation of the headlight, City Light circuit today but I am waiting on bulbs from Amazon.  I realize now that those bulbs are readily available from the local auto parts place but I already paid for the other stuff.

I will, more than likely, uncover other affected broken stuff as I slowly recover this machine.  I suspect that this thread is not near completion just now.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Tree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: us
  • 21 Year Submarine Veteran - GO NAVY!
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #121 on: February 21, 2018, 05:38:06 AM »
None of what I have experienced since I began fiddling around with the electrical circuit makes much sense.  But it actually makes a whole lot of sense when viewed from my armchair.  I have theories and suspicions about what happened and what may have caused it.  Well, to be fair, I caused the problems.  So what follows is my attempt at explanation about WTF happened.

The electrical system failure that I experienced and that ultimately grounded (pun) my bike was a protracted low voltage condition.  The low voltage was caused when the battery experienced an internal fault brought about by several high-current, short-circuit loads being imposed upon it due to my botched attempt to "repair" the SLU.  Repeated stresses, over and over and over....  The battery then no longer behaved as a power source (ie the internal voltage decreased) because the structures that maintained the separation between plates broke down. It was more than likely mechanical failure but there could have been a chemical element that resulted in degraded charge-discharge performance.  There was a time long ago in a land far far away that I could have explained the precise chemical equations involved in charging and discharging a battery...  time is a cruel master and I have forgotten more than I care to admit.

What I believe to be the final stroke was when the battery developed fatal short circuit(s).  (It was very angry with me which is completely understandable)  This resulted in the electrical potential dropping and the battery's capability to achieve/maintain rated voltage.  The charging circuit (voltage regulator, via the stator) delivers a nominal 14 to 15VDC every time, all of the time.  The charging circuit basically chased the battery down the voltage gradient as the battery's internal resistance and voltage decreased.  A downward voltage surge if you will.  The ultimate ending voltage point for the battery would be zero VDC or chassis ground (zero volts as far as DC is concerned).  The battery was now acting as a huge load on the charging circuit.  The voltage drop wasn't sudden as say, flipping a switch, but it was fast enough.  And it was also slow enough for the current sensitive components in the bike to feel the heat.  Somewhere back in this post I wrote about a little basic electrical theory.  Device Power (W) (consumed/required/demanded) = Current (I) X Voltage (V).  That equality must be satisfied.  So, when voltage is forced down then the current is forced up due to the device's demand/need to keep everything equal and the power delivery where it needs to be.  The resultant excessive currents basically burnt up stuff.  I say currents because the circuitry that is supplied by the system spreads out to various discreet components which all have their own Power needs and resultant current draw.  That's why a fuse can't protect everything when there is a low voltage condition because it has a very high current rating when compared to a discreet component.  A fuse is for short-circuit protection and cannot sense nor does it give a crap about voltage.  (But there are voltage ratings for fuses, I won't go into why, it's beyond the scope).  Individual component current draws are very small in comparison to short-circuit protection.

When I pulled the battery I found that it was nearly spherical (minor exaggeration) and the deformation was so severe that it caused the walls of the battery compartment to bulge outward.

As to why this or that component failed and others did not can be explained.  The reason that literally everything didn't get fried was that the KIPASS and/or the DFI ECU failed and shut down the bike.  What had already failed was broken and the remainder was saved.

Yep, I remember that part, and I have followed along with your posts about the ECU, the KiPass ECU and so forth. And I follow part of this. But I do not understand how filament light bulbs could have been damaged by whatever you did to the bike's wiring or electrical systems? I know you damaged or think you damaged the rectifier / regulator, and that is fine, but even if that fried and would have allowed a huge surge in voltage, the battery and the rest of the electrical circuits should have provided more than enough resistance to prevent the alternator from reaching high enough voltages to cause incandescent filaments to actually break. Over voltage would cause too much current but not likely enough to blow out filaments. Further, the alternator is not an unlimited current device and it has a max. capacity, at which point its own windings would open thereby stop any further current flow anyway. I guess in short I am saying I am not having much success thinking of a scenario where a vehicle's electrical system and so many 'downwind' components could be damaged with nothing but the electrical equipment on the bike in the first place.

Not saying you did not and do not have this problem, and not saying it is not exactly what you are saying it is, just that I have no experience and cannot conceive of any condition / situation that could cause such wide- reaching damage to so many [really hard to damage] components, such as headlights.

Perhaps a better way to put it is I cannot think of any way I could cause such damage on purpose, given time and planning as you seem to have. Again, not saying you are not right, just that it is totally puzzling to me and I cannot make any logical sense of it. ??

And of course, I am not asking you to have this make sense to me 'cause that is not your job, it is my failing. At any rate, I will follow along such as I can and will help if or when I think it might be of some benefit to you. And of course, sorry to hear of this misfortune as it is really the worst case of vehicle electrical damage I have ever heard of and will be hugely expensive as well as exasperating, finding all the individual parts one at a time.

Brian

« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 06:16:58 AM by Tree »

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 573
  • Country: au
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #122 on: February 21, 2018, 06:33:55 AM »
I, too, am apparently missing something in your explanation - or theory, and concur with what Brian says: Perhaps a better way to put it is, I cannot think of any way I could cause such damage on purpose, given time and planning as you seem to have. Again, not saying you are not right, just that it is totally puzzling to me and I cannot make any logical sense of it. ??

But to use a trite expression: 'at the end of the day it is what it is' - a horribly sad story.  I admire your stamina, ability and determination.   :chugbeer:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Tree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: us
  • 21 Year Submarine Veteran - GO NAVY!
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #123 on: February 21, 2018, 07:07:03 AM »
OK.  Let me try this.  I certainly didn't set out with any intent to damage my bike.  I don't know if I needed to say that but that is what I perceive as being in question.  What I had hoped to convey was that I did indeed create my own misery and I am now suffering the consequences of my decisions.  The preceding narrative is my attempt to:

1. Get some help
2. Share my experience
3. Be involved in the community

Perhaps I missed the point or overlooked an obvious question.  I have done so in the past and it is a guarantee that I will do so in the future.  The Human inside of me can get very distracted.

In my limited experience on this planet I have heard a few "horribly sad" stories.  I know there many more stories out there that I will never hear and that I feel that I need to hear because it would benefit me.  I don't want to bog this thread down with complicated and obscure personal opinions about philosophy or other B.S.  But there may be someone out there who is asking themselves "Why is this guy sharing such a "horribly sad story"?"

Maybe they need to hear it.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #124 on: February 21, 2018, 07:22:29 AM »
OK, I hear your theory. But I believe it is fundamentally flawed in a couple of ways; as the voltage in the system goes down due to increased load (your battery failing, a smaller and smaller resistance, a wrench across the battery terminals, whatever the reason), current will increase to a point but not by orders of magnitude. The C-14's alternator can only put out a finite amount of current, after which point it would simply open (burn through) at least one winding in the stator itself and stop working. In short (pun intended), there is just no way for the 'stuff on the bike' (technical term meaning the gross electrical potential of all electric components available on a C-14) to cause such a massive amount of current to do all that damage, or not at least any that I can think of or imagine.

The other thing is that fuses are current based devices, and there is no way to increase their capacity no matter what is done with voltage, including lowering it. A 30 amp fuse will open at, say 40 amps for three seconds, or 50 amps for 1/2 second and so forth (one needs the actual data curve for the specific fuse) but the point is, there is no way to have, say, 60 amps flow through a 30 amp fuse.

As to power delivery, your idea is right but in reality, it will not work that way for very much of a differential in either resistance or voltage. For example: an induction motor will draw more current when it is turning too slowly and the impedance is low. So a 1,000 watt motor will try to draw [close to infinite] current and [nearly zero] voltage (i.e., a dead short) in theory but in practice, it is not a 'perfect current' device and so will actually not draw much more than double its full- load running current. Hence the lights in the garage dim when switching on a table saw but the breaker does not open because while the current surge is high, it is not ridiculous.

In electrical theory, there are current devices (such as an alternator on a vehicle) and voltage devices such as MIG welders but in reality, neither one is really correct and only sorta', kinda' acts that way. A stick welder is a current source and will maintain current and cause the voltage to fluctuate; a MIG welder is a voltage source and cause the current to fluctuate. Both will act to maintain a given power output. And while that is true over a narrow range, it is NOT true over a wider range; set a stick welder for 100 amps, and it may range from 70 to 115 amps as the arc length and plasma density change but it will absolutely not go to 300, 1,000, or more amps of current even given a dead short.

But all of this theory and mechanisms behind us, I still am frankly amazed at what has happened to your bike with no outside power source. If you were doing some welding on the bike, and accidentally sent 200 amps through some wiring and components, I could certainly understand 'letting the smoke out' of all sorts of things. But with nothing but a small battery and a small alternator, the damage you have sustained is honestly amazing to me.

Of course I do believe you have sustained that amount of damage. And there is far more about the world that I do not know than I do know so the fact that it is beyond me is nothing to be surprised about- lots of stuff I do not understand that seems to work just fine in spite of my ignorance. But still, you are holding the 'prize' for electrical damage in both scope and expense that I have ever heard of on any 12 volt vehicular system.

And again, as always, sorry to hear about any of this and of course, I will try and keep an eye on this (and the other) thread and will certainly jump in if or when I think I may have something of use to add that may help you.

Brian

None of what I have experienced since I began fiddling around with the electrical circuit makes much sense.  But it actually makes a whole lot of sense when viewed from my armchair.  I have theories and suspicions about what happened and what may have caused it.  Well, to be fair, I caused the problems.  So what follows is my attempt at explanation about WTF happened.

The electrical system failure that I experienced and that ultimately grounded (pun) my bike was a protracted low voltage condition.  The low voltage was caused when the battery experienced an internal fault brought about by several high-current, short-circuit loads being imposed upon it due to my botched attempt to "repair" the SLU.  Repeated stresses, over and over and over....  The battery then no longer behaved as a power source (ie the internal voltage decreased) because the structures that maintained the separation between plates broke down. It was more than likely mechanical failure but there could have been a chemical element that resulted in degraded charge-discharge performance.  There was a time long ago in a land far far away that I could have explained the precise chemical equations involved in charging and discharging a battery...  time is a cruel master and I have forgotten more than I care to admit.

What I believe to be the final stroke was when the battery developed fatal short circuit(s).  (It was very angry with me which is completely understandable)  This resulted in the electrical potential dropping and the battery's capability to achieve/maintain rated voltage.  The charging circuit (voltage regulator, via the stator) delivers a nominal 14 to 15VDC every time, all of the time.  The charging circuit basically chased the battery down the voltage gradient as the battery's internal resistance and voltage decreased.  A downward voltage surge if you will.  The ultimate ending voltage point for the battery would be zero VDC or chassis ground (zero volts as far as DC is concerned).  The battery was now acting as a huge load on the charging circuit.  The voltage drop wasn't sudden as say, flipping a switch, but it was fast enough.  And it was also slow enough for the current sensitive components in the bike to feel the heat.  Somewhere back in this post I wrote about a little basic electrical theory.  Device Power (W) (consumed/required/demanded) = Current (I) X Voltage (V).  That equality must be satisfied.  So, when voltage is forced down then the current is forced up due to the device's demand/need to keep everything equal and the power delivery where it needs to be.  The resultant excessive currents basically burnt up stuff.  I say currents because the circuitry that is supplied by the system spreads out to various discreet components which all have their own Power needs and resultant current draw.  That's why a fuse can't protect everything when there is a low voltage condition because it has a very high current rating when compared to a discreet component.  A fuse is for short-circuit protection and cannot sense nor does it give a crap about voltage.  (But there are voltage ratings for fuses, I won't go into why, it's beyond the scope).  Individual component current draws are very small in comparison to short-circuit protection.

When I pulled the battery I found that it was nearly spherical (minor exaggeration) and the deformation was so severe that it caused the walls of the battery compartment to bulge outward.

As to why this or that component failed and others did not can be explained.  The reason that literally everything didn't get fried was that the KIPASS and/or the DFI ECU failed and shut down the bike.  What had already failed was broken and the remainder was saved.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #125 on: February 21, 2018, 07:30:19 AM »
Not sure what you are responding to but no one that I can see, and I guarantee from my point, no one is accusing you of absolutely anything. I am merely perplexed and scratching around for a viable reason why this happened but only conversationally. No one is accusing you of anything, nor is anyone in any way putting you down that I can see. In fact, we are all quite sympathetic I believe and honestly trying to help. Any conversation about how your problem happened is merely speculation and being conversational, not passing judgement or trying to insult you in any way, at all.

If you took anything I have said with any negative tone, I apologize as that was not, was never my meaning or intent. You seem like a great guy and a welcome asset to any nice forum so I do not want to alienate you in any way. And we have all 'stepped in it', usually pretty badly at some point before we get gray hair, and I KNOW I have, so no rock- throwing at you even if you did cause this damage (frankly, I do not care about the 'why', my thinking is about the 'how in the hell' and 'how can I help this guy get to the end of this miserable path'). Anyone who has done anything and says they have not done something foolish, careless or combinations of the above is either fibbing or really has never done much of anything in the first place.

So again, the kindest thoughts and wishes to  you and I will again apologize if you took something I said as accusatory, negative or generally nasty in any way.

Brian

OK.  Let me try this.  I certainly didn't set out with any intent to damage my bike.  I don't know if I needed to say that but that is what I perceive as being in question.  What I had hoped to convey was that I did indeed create my own misery and I am now suffering the consequences of my decisions.  The preceding narrative is my attempt to:

1. Get some help
2. Share my experience
3. Be involved in the community

Perhaps I missed the point or overlooked an obvious question.  I have done so in the past and it is a guarantee that I will do so in the future.  The Human inside of me can get very distracted.

In my limited experience on this planet I have heard a few "horribly sad" stories.  I know there many more stories out there that I will never hear and that I feel that I need to hear because it would benefit me.  I don't want to bog this thread down with complicated and obscure personal opinions about philosophy or other B.S.  But there may be someone out there who is asking themselves "Why is this guy sharing such a "horribly sad story"?"

Maybe they need to hear it.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline Tree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: us
  • 21 Year Submarine Veteran - GO NAVY!
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #126 on: February 21, 2018, 09:29:07 AM »
I am just as puzzled as anyone else out there as to the "How in the hell did this happen???" question.  I offered my theory as to how, as did you and others, but I think we may be chasing smoke at this point.  Not that I saw any smoke thank God.

I thank any and everyone who had been kind enough to comment in an attempt to help me steer through this current (pun intended) dilemma.

Not sure what you are responding to but no one that I can see, and I guarantee from my point, no one is accusing you of absolutely anything. I am merely perplexed and scratching around for a viable reason why this happened but only conversationally. No one is accusing you of anything, nor is anyone in any way putting you down that I can see. In fact, we are all quite sympathetic I believe and honestly trying to help. Any conversation about how your problem happened is merely speculation and being conversational, not passing judgement or trying to insult you in any way, at all.

If you took anything I have said with any negative tone, I apologize as that was not, was never my meaning or intent. You seem like a great guy and a welcome asset to any nice forum so I do not want to alienate you in any way. And we have all 'stepped in it', usually pretty badly at some point before we get gray hair, and I KNOW I have, so no rock- throwing at you even if you did cause this damage (frankly, I do not care about the 'why', my thinking is about the 'how in the hell' and 'how can I help this guy get to the end of this miserable path'). Anyone who has done anything and says they have not done something foolish, careless or combinations of the above is either fibbing or really has never done much of anything in the first place.

So again, the kindest thoughts and wishes to  you and I will again apologize if you took something I said as accusatory, negative or generally nasty in any way.

Brian


I was responding to Freddy and your posts.  Just trying to answer the question.  I hope there wasn't a snarky tone in the reply.  I'm not Butt-Hurt and I hope none of you guys are either.

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #127 on: February 21, 2018, 10:06:06 AM »
Smoke may have actually been your friend- in electronics, always start with the black, stinky parts as the likely problem.... :-)

Nope, no problem on my end, just wanted to make sure no one else had one either. This is a nice forum, with nice people that is a pleasant place to spend some time 'associating' with like- minded and like- interested people. Conflicts may occur but I wan to make sure that they do not happen by accident. So sounds like all is well..... now back to the real problem, that pesky bike. :-(

Brian

I am just as puzzled as anyone else out there as to the "How in the hell did this happen???" question.  I offered my theory as to how, as did you and others, but I think we may be chasing smoke at this point.  Not that I saw any smoke thank God.

I thank any and everyone who had been kind enough to comment in an attempt to help me steer through this current (pun intended) dilemma.

I was responding to Freddy and your posts.  Just trying to answer the question.  I hope there wasn't a snarky tone in the reply.  I'm not Butt-Hurt and I hope none of you guys are either.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline just gone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #128 on: February 21, 2018, 10:13:53 AM »
OK, so we have surmised that we do not know what actually happened from an electrical theory point of view. We do know what the original trigger was that started it all.
 However I think we need to back up a bit.

(5) I could use a hug.

 :grouphug:

Sorry, it's the best we can do. Unfortunately we just are not very good at it. The one female we had on here, left because of our ineptitude in that area. Most if not all of us are still as baffled about that as we are about the electrical theory of what caused all of your filaments to blow. However we all appreciated the opportunity to armchair diagnose along with you and admire your determination to get through this. As long as you are only using your money and sharing the details with us, we will never abandon you like those other friends that just wanted you to "part it out".
I hope you fell hugged and appreciated now, like I said it's the best we can do.

I too may have gone down your path with some of the mods I wanted to try on my C14, fortunately Brian was able to show me the errors in my thinking before I got out the soldering iron and started cutting wires.


Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #129 on: February 21, 2018, 10:29:20 AM »
And I can add that hugging Marty is a fundamentally good thing, though it seems to cause him some consternation.

 :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

A little inside joke: I do this shtick where I see a friend and 'hug' her, say at a COG function, but sometimes some other people seem to get caught up in said hug, much to their surprise.  :rotflmao:  It is like 'The Cat Joke', you just have to 'be there' to experience it in person. But Marty has and I am still amused by the look on his face at that moment. Kinda like this:  :yikes: and 'huh?' and 'am I going to face charges over this' all at once. :-)

Brian

OK, so we have surmised that we do not know what actually happened from an electrical theory point of view. We do know what the original trigger was that started it all.
 However I think we need to back up a bit.

 :grouphug:

Sorry, it's the best we can do. Unfortunately we just are not very good at it. The one female we had on here, left because of our ineptitude in that area. Most if not all of us are still as baffled about that as we are about the electrical theory of what caused all of your filaments to blow. However we all appreciated the opportunity to armchair diagnose along with you and admire your determination to get through this. As long as you are only using your money and sharing the details with us, we will never abandon you like those other friends that just wanted you to "part it out".
I hope you fell hugged and appreciated now, like I said it's the best we can do.

I too may have gone down your path with some of the mods I wanted to try on my C14, fortunately Brian was able to show me the errors in my thinking before I got out the soldering iron and started cutting wires.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2018, 03:35:20 PM by B.D.F. »
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline just gone

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1655
  • Country: us
  • COG#9712 '10 ABS
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #130 on: February 21, 2018, 11:50:55 AM »
 #metoo






The above was an attempt at humor, and in no way should it be construed as a belittlement of the #metoo movement or of those involved with it, nor is it to be construed as an accusation against B.D.F. of any impropriety. Perhaps as a warning to not get too close to him at any time, yes that!

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #131 on: February 21, 2018, 12:57:36 PM »
Yeah well I seem to remember you saying something along the line 'You have twenty minutes to stop doing that', which I took as a positive sign.

 ;D

To the onlookers (onreaders?) really, you just had to be there. Whatever you are imagining, that was not it.

OK, sorry about going OFFTOPIC:

Brian

#metoo






The above was an attempt at humor, and in no way should it be construed as a belittlement of the #metoo movement or of those involved with it, nor is it to be construed as an accusation against B.D.F. of any impropriety. Perhaps as a warning to not get too close to him at any time, yes that!
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com

Offline VirginiaJim

  • Administrator
  • Elite Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11334
  • Country: england
  • I've forgotten more than I'll ever know...
    • Kawasaki 1400GTR
Re: Stator Problem?
« Reply #132 on: February 21, 2018, 01:21:07 PM »
You would probably feel a LOT better if you could comfort yourself with a ShamWow. Have you heard of them?  ::) ???

 ;D

Brian


Have a whole box on a shelf in the basement.
"LOCTITE®"  The original thread locker...  #11  2020 Indian Roadmaster, ABS, Cruise control, heated grips and seats/w/AC 46 Monitoring with cutting edge technology U.N.I.T is Back! Member in good standing with the Knights of MEH.

Offline maxtog

  • Elite Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 8869
  • Country: us
  • 2011 Silver
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #133 on: February 21, 2018, 03:17:21 PM »
I just think your bike must have been hit by a stealthy lightening bolt or ball lightening that couldn't find the ground, or a lightening-based ghost!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 573
  • Country: au
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #134 on: February 21, 2018, 09:07:43 PM »
Correct me if you think I'm wrong folks, please, but apart from being struck by lightening or a welder, isn't the only way to get Tree's sort of destruction is to have unregulated stator voltage applied to the circuitry?   :yikes:
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline Tree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: us
  • 21 Year Submarine Veteran - GO NAVY!
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #135 on: February 22, 2018, 06:32:41 PM »
Please remember the part about troubleshooting where I mentioned the Black Cat.  At this point in the process the damn cat isn't even in the room any more.  I'm just going to recover the body and replace parts until it has a pulse again.

So, concerning the Stator...  Never mind.  I'm going with the Plasma Ball theory and move on.

Correct me if you think I'm wrong folks, please, but apart from being struck by lightening or a welder, isn't the only way to get Tree's sort of destruction is to have unregulated stator voltage applied to the circuitry?   :yikes:

Plasma Ball.

Offline gPink

  • Arena
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5686
  • Country: cn
  • MMVIII C XIV

Offline Tree

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 314
  • Country: us
  • 21 Year Submarine Veteran - GO NAVY!
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #137 on: February 25, 2018, 02:53:03 AM »
The lights are replaced.  They all work.  The turn indicating lights work - they flash when the ignition key goes to ON.  Still waiting on the electronic Relay for the turn signal/hazard lights to fully function.

So here is the rest of the list:

1. The Speedo doesn't indicate while riding.  (The dial sweeps when the system initializes tho).
2. The trip A / trip B / and odometer do not increment. They are indicated on the LCD screen (ie 0.0 for trip, and current miles for the Odo total, they just don't increase).
3. Fuel consumption: Avg MPG, Range, Current MPG those just show dashed lines.

I'm thinking the Speed Sensor is bad (PN 21176-0037). All of the above indications require speed as an input to the Cluster/ECU, don't they?

4. The ABS light is constantly ON.
- The KDS report that the mechanic printed shows codes:
5043 - Front Wheel Speed Sensor Wiring Abnormal (Open, Shortage)
5052 - Power Supply Voltage Abnormal (Under Voltage)
5053 - Power Supply Voltage Abnormal (Over Voltage)

I initially suspected the ABS ECU as potentially fried.  Mechanically the pump is in good shape I think.  I can get by without ABS for now.  I need to find another ECU board to swap out.  I think it's just a board.

If I swap the ABS ECU board will I have to use KDS to register it?  I can't remember.

Offline Freddy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 573
  • Country: au
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #138 on: February 25, 2018, 05:35:52 AM »
If I swap the ABS ECU board will I have to use KDS to register it?  I can't remember.

No.

Why not clear the codes as described and see if any show on the next ride?

 :chugbeer:  Good work Tree.
The best substitute for brains is .............what?

Offline B.D.F.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4955
  • Country: 00
  • It's only really cold if you fall down in it.
    • C-14 farkles you almost cannot ride without.
Re: Stator Problem? or Precursor to fried Battery and electrical meltdown
« Reply #139 on: February 25, 2018, 06:10:02 AM »
On the Vehicle Speed Sensor (VSS), yep, it sounds like it is bad. You can test it if you want to by powering it up (ignition on) and watching the voltage on the pink wire in the VSS harness (not the bike harness it connects to) with a VOM and very slowly rotating the rear tire; the voltage output should change from 0 to 5 volts (approximately numbers).

Otherwise, probably available used from scrap sources or Ebay and it is a good part to buy used because they do not wear or deteriorate.

Cannot help on the ABS part.

Brian

The lights are replaced.  They all work.  The turn indicating lights work - they flash when the ignition key goes to ON.  Still waiting on the electronic Relay for the turn signal/hazard lights to fully function.

So here is the rest of the list:

1. The Speedo doesn't indicate while riding.  (The dial sweeps when the system initializes tho).
2. The trip A / trip B / and odometer do not increment. They are indicated on the LCD screen (ie 0.0 for trip, and current miles for the Odo total, they just don't increase).
3. Fuel consumption: Avg MPG, Range, Current MPG those just show dashed lines.

I'm thinking the Speed Sensor is bad (PN 21176-0037). All of the above indications require speed as an input to the Cluster/ECU, don't they?

4. The ABS light is constantly ON.
- The KDS report that the mechanic printed shows codes:
5043 - Front Wheel Speed Sensor Wiring Abnormal (Open, Shortage)
5052 - Power Supply Voltage Abnormal (Under Voltage)
5053 - Power Supply Voltage Abnormal (Over Voltage)

I initially suspected the ABS ECU as potentially fried.  Mechanically the pump is in good shape I think.  I can get by without ABS for now.  I need to find another ECU board to swap out.  I think it's just a board.

If I swap the ABS ECU board will I have to use KDS to register it?  I can't remember.
Homo Sapiens Sapiens and just a tad of Neanderthal but it usually does not show....  My Private mail is blocked; it is not you, it is me, just like that dating partner said all those years ago. Please send an e-mail if you want to contact me privately.

KiPass keeping you up at night? Fuel gauge warning burning your retinas? Get unlimited peace and harmony here: www.incontrolne.com