Kawasaki Concours Forum
The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => The Bike - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: KevinRLi on November 06, 2015, 11:27:12 PM
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I think I blew up my trans... Or at least 3rd gear. 2012 C14 with 36,000 miles. Heard a weird noise while riding home today. Only in 3rd gear. Got home and put it up on the center stand. 1st and 2nd are fine. As soon as I put it in 3rd there are some noises that a bike just shouldn't make. I know a video would help. Tomorrow I will make one and post it. I have plenty of time. My dealer which I normally like screwed me today. Called them to get the bike in and looked at and they can't even think of taking it in until the week after next! The service guy was like I'm short handed and I have 8 motors in various stages of teardown and rebuild. Considering what I told him he will have to remove my engine and crack it open. He also said he never had any issues prior to me with any C14 or ZX14 trans failing... So here I sit with a crunchy 3rd gear and a HOT november! I'll get a video posted tomorrow. Thanks in advance.
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If it's your daily driver, maybe just shift 2nd to 4th until you can get it fixed?
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If it's your daily driver, maybe just shift 2nd to 4th until you can get it fixed?
Yeah I have a car but the C14 is my preferred daily commuter. I was thinking that too. I do it a lot anyway. Rev a little higher than normal in 1st and 2nd and 3rd is completely unnecessary. lol
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Sorry Kevin/Connisaki, I have to disagree.
I think continuing to ride is a Bad idea.
If something (like a gear tooth) is in there, It could move and break other gears etc.
Which would make things a lot worse...
If a bearing is going away, metal is in the oil and some of that metal can adhere to your other bearings...
Which would also make things a lot worse...
NOTE: 2 have recently had tranny problems on a C-14 (Fias and Marty).
They posted on the other Forum. Go there to do some research.
I suggest that you contact them.
Ride safe, Ted
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Sorry Kevin/Connisaki, I have to disagree.
I think continuing to ride is a Bad idea.
If something (like a gear tooth) is in there, It could move and break other gears etc.
Which would make things a lot worse...
If a bearing is going away, metal is in the oil and some of that metal can adhere to your other bearings...
Which would also make things a lot worse...
NOTE: 2 have recently had tranny problems on a C-14 (Fias and Marty).
They posted on the other Forum. Go there to do some research.
I suggest that you contact them.
Ride safe, Ted
Yeah I agree Ted. It was hopeful thinking. Ha!!! I ride everyday unless it's snowing. It's going to be a rough couple of weeks! I made a short vid of the noise. It just sucks that the dealer I bought 2 bikes from can't get me in there before the following week!
https://youtu.be/a9lLAA7FXds
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:yikes: I would not feel comfortable driving it with that sound. Is it still under warranty?
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Arghh,,,,,
Same bearings are used in all gears.
Since the noise is just in 3rd,,, I suspect a broken tooth on your #3 gear.
See if you can hook up with Marty or Fias. They can show you photo's of their broken gear.
And, (if your bike isn't in warranty) what it cost for the repair.
PS: I (still) really like the green stripe you added...
Ride safe, Ted
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NOTE: 2 have recently had tranny problems on a C-14 (Fias and Marty).
Joel (aka JS_racer) and I both have had problems, mine was a broken tooth on forth gear, and Joel has purchased a used motor to swap out for his noisy one. I don't think they have dug into his old motor yet to determine exactly what the noise is. Mine was covered under extended warranty so I can't help with info on costs.
I didn't know Fias [Fais?] had a problem as well. (link Ted?) edit: nevermind, I found it. Sounds like two more, Fais and Marv. http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=61417.0 (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=61417.0)
7 pages so far: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19841.msg245481#msg245481 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19841.msg245481#msg245481)
I'm personally getting a little tired of people referring to this bike as bulletproof. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but bulletproof it isn't.
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Joel (aka JS_racer) and I both have had problems, mine was a broken tooth on forth gear, and Joel has purchased a used motor to swap out for his noisy one. I don't think they have dug into his old motor yet to determine exactly what the noise is. Mine was covered under extended warranty so I can't help with info on costs.
I didn't know Fias [Fais?] had a problem as well. (link Ted?) edit: nevermind, I found it. Sounds like two more, Fais and Marv. http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=61417.0 (http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=61417.0)
7 pages so far: http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19841.msg245481#msg245481 (http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=19841.msg245481#msg245481)
I'm personally getting a little tired of people referring to this bike as bulletproof. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but bulletproof it isn't.
Still under warranty. I purchased it with the extended 3 year warranty new 2012 left over in July of 2013. So yes I have 3+ yrs left on it. Still a bit tweaked that I can't even get it into my dealer until next week. Not a happy camper. I mean I've heard about people getting the run around when they bring their bike to a dealer they didn't buy it from. I bought 2 bikes from this guy and I can't get it in. Oh well. I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens. In the mean time I may have to steal... Err Borrow my son's Versys 650 for a day here and there. HA!!
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True enough Marty, but what is bullet proof? I think it is only reasonable to compare things like vehicle robustness, reliability, etc. with other, comparable vehicles. And as far as I know, the C-14 still ranks right up there with not having major mechanical problems (that stop the bike for example) and not leaving people stranded. *
Frankly, I do not know of any other, comparable, motorcycle that out- shines a C-14 in that regard. ?? I used to think a Goldwing would out- distance them, on average, but have recently found out (from two dealers) that they are not quite bullet proof either.
And I have to say that in those few cases that I have heard of, such as yours and now this one, of what I would call catastrophic mechanical failure, they were still ride-able, which is kind of amazing in and of itself IMO.
* minor quirks that are easily worked- around excepted.... such as the infamous stuck KiPass activation switch or a dead fob battery: those things and similar should not leave any prepared C-14 rider stranded although it may, and has, snuck up on some that are not quite familiar with the system.
Brian
<snip>
I'm personally getting a little tired of people referring to this bike as bulletproof. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but bulletproof it isn't.
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I have no idea what your dealer's situation is but to be honest, I think a one- week delay on bringing in a motorcycle which is pretty obviously going to need a very significant amount of time to repair is pretty good. A lot of dealers might take the bike in right away but it could still be a while before it actually gets significant time for that very large that I believe your bike is going to require.
Not bashing or defending anyone here, and as I said, I do not know your dealer, just pointing out that most businesses only have enough space / personnel to do the work needed and not much, if any, additional abilities to suddenly take on large jobs. Fire depts. excepted but then again, we pay them to hang around until the bell rings.... :-)
Brian
Still under warranty. I purchased it with the extended 3 year warranty new 2012 left over in July of 2013. So yes I have 3+ yrs left on it. Still a bit tweaked that I can't even get it into my dealer until next week. Not a happy camper. I mean I've heard about people getting the run around when they bring their bike to a dealer they didn't buy it from. I bought 2 bikes from this guy and I can't get it in. Oh well. I'll keep everyone posted as to what happens. In the mean time I may have to steal... Err Borrow my son's Versys 650 for a day here and there. HA!!
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True enough Marty, but what is bullet proof? I think it is only reasonable to compare things like vehicle robustness, reliability, etc. with other, comparable vehicles. And as far as I know, the C-14 still ranks right up there with not having major mechanical problems (that stop the bike for example) and not leaving people stranded.
I agree, with a "better than average reliability". However there are a lot of folks using the word "bulletproof". Perhaps I have a higher expectation of what bulletproof means. There are more trans problems showing up and not everybody is on these two forums to talk about theirs, so how many are really out there that have had problems? I know of 5 now. I haven't heard of any engine problems (other than the turbo installed ones) so I guess I can accept referring to the engine as bulletproof for now, but not the transmission.
I have no idea what your dealer's situation is but to be honest, I think a one- week delay on bringing in a motorcycle which is pretty obviously going to need a very significant amount of time to repair is pretty good. A lot of dealers might take the bike in right away but it could still be a while before it actually gets significant time for that very large that I believe your bike is going to require.
I fully agree with this, when I started hearing the noise in mine I took it straight to the closest dealer and found another way home, it was a week before I heard from them. It is an unreasonable expectation (IMO) to expect them to drop everything to jump into a big job that will most likely be warranty work. I chose the carrot method instead of the stick method and it seems to have worked for me. It was 2+ months in all but it was worth it in the end (again IMO). Just reading the service manual and what was involved with the whole process helped make me very patient.
Since the repair, I've been on two trips so far and not a missed shift, not a strange noise or vibration, and nary a drop of oil on the garage floor. Not something I expected after seeing my engine tipped over on the work bench with the coolant hose hanging down toward the floor with that one drop of green hanging on the end.
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Just our different points of view. All mechanical, moving things fail, it is just a matter of how often based on numbers of machines and how much they are used- in this case, it would be failures per [C-14 miles ridden]. And I do know of one outright engine failure that happened to a gentleman way back in '09 I believe; he was riding the bike hard, it made a 'loud noise' and while it continued to run, it was clearly quite ill, down on power and producing a lot of smoke. He traded it (an '08) in for a new '09 and the dealer adjusted the trade price to reflect a warranty coverage repair on the engine (in other words, the dealer gave him the fair value of his bike in excellent condition and repaired it on Kawasaki's dime, and on his time rather than the rider).
But I will say, given the photos of your gear failure, and the recent several that have happened, I would expect Kawasaki to re- visit both the gear design as well as, and especially, the metallurgy of those gears. That is great news for the future purchasers but it does not do us much good. Still, I think the odds of getting hit by lightening are higher than having a C-14 transmission failure. Maybe we can agree on the words 'near- bulletproof'? ;D
Brian
I agree, with a "better than average reliability". However there are a lot of folks using the word "bulletproof". Perhaps I have a higher expectation of what bulletproof means. There are more trans problems showing up and not everybody is on these two forums to talk about theirs, so how many are really out there that have had problems? I know of 5 now. I haven't heard of any engine problems (other than the turbo installed ones) so I guess I can accept referring to the engine as bulletproof for now, but not the transmission.
<snip>
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I'm personally getting a little tired of people referring to this bike as bulletproof. Don't get me wrong, I like it a lot, but bulletproof it isn't
I know I would never say "bulletproof", I like to say "very reliable and well-built." I doubt anything is perfect. But the number of reports on the forum about major problems with the engine or transmission are very rare. Especially pertinent when compared to what I hear about other bikes. And even more pertinent when many of those other bikes cost a lot more and/or have a much shorter warranty.
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Bullet-resistant?
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Maybe we can agree on the words 'near- bulletproof'? ;D
I believe we can*. ;D (*until more failure reports come in)
I like to say "very reliable and well-built."
I can agree with that as well. :thumbs:
Bullet-resistant?
Yeah, or that too. :D
But the number of reports on the forum about major problems with the engine or transmission are very rare. Especially pertinent when compared to what I hear about other bikes. And even more pertinent when many of those other bikes cost a lot more and/or have a much shorter warranty.
I don't think we need to start bashing BMW here. Hmmmm....I wonder why I assumed that's what you meant by other bikes. ;D ;D
Before I realized how little I would get for my C14 on a trade in, and how much warranty was left on it, I was thinking of getting rid of it. Starting all over on the research I still came back to the '15 C14 and the '14 FJR. Neither appear to be bullet proof so even more reason to stay with what I've got. Yes it is a lot of bike for the money and it's very reliable for most. Not so reliable that an extended warranty purchase is recklessly throwing money away.
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I've had prior experience with this dealer. Last year I needed an oil leak fixed (under warrantry) and while they had the fairing all off I had them do the valve adjustment. They had me drop it off in a couple of days and it only took a day. Granted this is a much bigger job compared to that.
I ride this thing every single day. Down to 20f in the winter I commute with this. I'm going through detox!!! LOL!!!!
:nuts:
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I think I blew up my trans... Or at least 3rd gear. 2012 C14 with 36,000 miles. Heard a weird noise while riding home today. Only in 3rd gear. Got home and put it up on the center stand. 1st and 2nd are fine. As soon as I put it in 3rd there are some noises that a bike just shouldn't make. I know a video would help. Tomorrow I will make one and post it. I have plenty of time. My dealer which I normally like screwed me today. Called them to get the bike in and looked at and they can't even think of taking it in until the week after next! The service guy was like I'm short handed and I have 8 motors in various stages of teardown and rebuild. Considering what I told him he will have to remove my engine and crack it open. He also said he never had any issues prior to me with any C14 or ZX14 trans failing... So here I sit with a crunchy 3rd gear and a HOT november! I'll get a video posted tomorrow. Thanks in advance.
What engine oil are you using?
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What engine oil are you using?
:stirpot: :stirpot: You're just in a mischievous mood today, aren't you big guy. ;D
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:stirpot: :stirpot: You're just in a mischievous mood today, aren't you big guy. ;D
8)
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Oil thread!!!!
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What engine oil are you using?
Mobil 1 98JA11 10W-40 Racing 4T Motorcycle Oil for Sport Bikes
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Mobil 1 98JA11 10W-40 Racing 4T Motorcycle Oil for Sport Bikes
See...right there's your problem. You should have been using the Sport Touring formula. :)
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See...right there's your problem. You should have been using the Sport Touring formula. :)
I agree w/ Mr.Pink- Once I almost bought oil for my 2009 Kawasaki Concours ABS that was marked for non-ABS Kawasaki Concours (pronounced KonKoor, class..) What a mistake that would have been!
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I'm just trying to get through the shakes and cold chills!!! It's been... 5 days without my C14!
:yikes:
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http://youtu.be/zHIVeWhCMU8 (http://youtu.be/zHIVeWhCMU8)
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I know I would never say "bulletproof"
Why not? You should have just specified which CALIBER ;D. I'd say the Connie is about 45-cal bulletproof. Or maybe even 357 magnum. But definitely not 44 magnum, or 50 Desert Eagle. And yes, we're only talking handgun calibers. Let's see how the others rate the Connie compared to other such 'bulletproof' bikes, like the ST1100, FJR1300, BMW R bikes, etc.
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Quick update on this. Finally heard from my dealer yesterday. I'm dropping the bike off Monday evening finally! 2 weeks waiting to get it in... I'll let everyone know what the outcome is.
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:popcorn:
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Quick update on this. Finally heard from my dealer yesterday. I'm dropping the bike off Monday evening finally! 2 weeks waiting to get it in... I'll let everyone know what the outcome is.
Best of luck mate! :)
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Ok there you have it. Broke a tooth off of third gear. Order for parts went in today. Hopefully they will be in early next week and I'm back in the saddle by end of next week. My magnetic oil plug did grab the broken tooth to prevent damage to other things if it was left to bounce around. I just changed the oil about a week before all this happened. Nothing was on the plug when I changed it.
While the bike is in the shop I'm having them change the plugs and check the valves. Saves me the cost of labor to open everything up.
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Ask for a shim map when they check the valves.
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Yeah, who needs third anyway.
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Hi
Rough luck.
I assume they are also changing the driven gear? it must have had a rough time when that broke.... and if the gears had a rough time so did the bearings on both shafts.
Richard
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Hi
Rough luck.
I assume they are also changing the driven gear? it must have had a rough time when that broke.... and if the gears had a rough time so did the bearings on both shafts.
Richard
I think you are thinking what a lot of us are thinking- this bike had a rough life.
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I think you are thinking what a lot of us are thinking- this bike had a rough life.
I certainly hope you're wrong, especially the past tense part. Mine has more miles on it than Kevin's does and it seems as good as new after they replaced my 3-4 gear (mine broke the tooth on 4th). My replacement gears had a different part number than the original so I'm hoping that is because they are made better (humming beautiful dreamer goes here (http://media.scout.com/media/forums/emoticons/219/violin.gif)).
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so this '10 is exhibiting what iirc the fourth catastrophic gear tooth failure in the last 6-7 months.... I see a progression coming here, and hating to be the harbinger of death, I'm thinking wholeheartedly there is, and has been noted by kaw, a severe and repeatedly documented metalurgy/production issue on these gears... specific to '10 thru '12 production....
if we, as a small cross seftion of owners are documenting this, as many times as we have seen this year, multiply this by x100 and you will see a serious issue... I say this knowing how many COG people are here, vs how many bikes were sold... I venture to say we are as a group, such a small percentage of on road bikes, and those not familiar with us are having issues, we are only seeing about a 5% exaggerated to the high end, total so far, and most scary are the bikes that only see a fouple thousand, if that, miles per year....
not a good omen....
I highly suggest buying those extended KPP warranty plans folks.... I sure as hell wouldn't want to dish out bucks for parts, and tear this engine down...
but so far no '08 has shown up with this problem.... fingers crossed and praying....
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so this '10 is exhibiting what iirc the fourth catastrophic gear tooth failure
I agree that it is a bit concerning.
I highly suggest buying those extended KPP warranty plans folks....
That is a good idea, regardless. It is so cheap, it is crazy not to.
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At 2.5 yrs old my 2012 still has 3.5 yrs of warranty left. My dealer threw the extended in when I bought it. Also averaging 15,000 miles a year. I don't see me keeping this past the life of the warranty. I will trade this in before that. In the mean time crossing my fingers I don't blow another gear!
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At 2.5 yrs old my 2012 still has 3.5 yrs of warranty left. My dealer threw the extended in when I bought it. Also averaging 15,000 miles a year. I don't see me keeping this past the life of the warranty. I will trade this in before that. In the mean time crossing my fingers I don't blow another gear!
Having a warranty will make it even more valuable when you go to sell it.
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Spoke with the dealer today. Should have the bike back by end of day tomorrow. He said there was no other damage in the transmission. I took a look with my untrained eye at the gears while I was there and I didn't see anything wrong. He also gave me the broken tooth as a souvenir. I'll put it under my pillow for the Kawi fairy! HA!
I'm still a bit disappointed in the response of the dealer and ultimately being without my bike for a month now. Two weeks to just get it into the shop and two weeks to get it fixed. Yes the holiday was thrown in there but still. Not exactly thrilled with not having a bike for that long. Stealing my Son's Versys 650 here and there was just a tease!
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I'm still a bit disappointed in the response of the dealer and ultimately being without my bike for a month now. Two weeks to just get it into the shop and two weeks to get it fixed. Yes the holiday was thrown in there but still. Not exactly thrilled with not having a bike for that long. Stealing my Son's Versys 650 here and there was just a tease!
Major failures like you describe are rare. But what is not rare are stories about the dealer taking a month or more to fix it :( Warranty work seems to drop to the bottom of their list and then there is the overhead of getting approvals, then waiting on parts, etc. Add to that the typical inexperience of their repair staff when it comes to the C14 (because it is a higher-end bike that they don't see often AND because it doesn't fail often) and that just compounds the problems.
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A month or so is good. If you want to know what 'bad' is have a read of some threads on spyderlovers.com
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He also gave me the broken tooth as a souvenir.
Any idea how that happened? A false neutral then a 'bang' when getting the tranny back in gear without stopping? A botched shift? If you didn't buy the bike since new, guess we'll never know. But glad you were taken care of, even if it took longer than it should. Good luck.
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Any idea how that happened? A false neutral then a 'bang' when getting the tranny back in gear without stopping? A botched shift? If you didn't buy the bike since new, guess we'll never know. But glad you were taken care of, even if it took longer than it should. Good luck.
No idea. I bought the bike as a 2012 left over in July of 2013. So yeah all me on the bike. I've had shifts where I missed a gear but never grinded any. Never heard that gut wrenching screech! LOL. I'm thinking it may have been an aggressive downshift but I still don't remember any specific event that did it. I noticed it when I was riding through town in 3rd gear. I have a cardo scala rider and always have music playing. This could have happened an hour, day, week before I noticed it. Who knows.
Still don't have the bike back. One part they are waiting on didn't show up Thursday. Hoping it will show Monday and I'll get it back Tuesday. I stole my son's 2014 Versys 650 today for a quick ride but it's just not the same! LOL!
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After a day short of 5 weeks I finally have my bike back! It was 5 weeks ago today that I noticed the noise and stopped riding. Three weeks ago Monday I dropped it at the dealer. I'm now more convinced than ever that Kawasaki dips their bikes in CRACK before they ship them out! This was the worst 5 weeks of my life. My dealer, once we got the bike in the shop did the best he could to get me out quickly. With Thanksgiving thrown in there and a part that was shipped from the west coast that ended up in Illinois instead of NY. He got me out relatively quickly. Now I have a month of riding to make up!
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Glad you're back on the road.
Gotta watch out for ILL-inois. It's a bit of a black hole.