Author Topic: C10 EFI Project  (Read 18275 times)

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2020, 07:11:51 PM »
Found the windscreen hiding in the garage. Cleaned it an put it on just for looks. What's a cafe racer without a cafe racer windscreen?
Wish it would warm up I want to ride.


Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #61 on: February 24, 2020, 08:51:54 AM »
looks good.  I've been keeping mine naked so far, but have thought of this too...

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #62 on: February 24, 2020, 10:25:28 AM »
looks good.  I've been keeping mine naked so far, but have thought of this too...
The wind screen came with the bike so I cleaned it and put it on. I'm not sure I will leave it that way. In a way (from the side) it looks cool. But (front on) I'm not sure...sort of looks like a Yamaha scooter. I have not made any permanent attachment.

I'm having trouble with the side panels.
The frame has been cut off right where the grommets for the Beau Clip Fasteners should be. 
Also the right side panel is being held away from the frame by the fuel regulator and fuel lines.
 Both solvable problems. I want the panels on so it hides all the plumbing and wiring. 
Its still snowing... :yikes:
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 01:31:37 PM by gpineau »

Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #63 on: February 24, 2020, 11:25:43 AM »
given that you're going EFI and managing air/fuel yourself, why are you sticking with the air box?

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #64 on: February 24, 2020, 12:02:29 PM »
given that you're going EFI and managing air/fuel yourself, why are you sticking with the air box?

The air box is part of the design. 
The fuel rail and the injectors are inside..
The front side of the air box provides the mounting surface for the injectors/fuel rail. 
And I get the stock air filter and boots.

I could have gone a different route but it would involve inventing and fabrication something that didn't exist.
I've done a fair amount of that already and this seemed like a natural solution to a problem of mounting and fuel delivery.

https://youtu.be/aLRq8trYBgU
« Last Edit: February 24, 2020, 02:01:24 PM by gpineau »

Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #65 on: February 24, 2020, 12:45:20 PM »
as you refine and improve, it would be nice to see that go away, but i get it now.  :)

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #66 on: February 29, 2020, 10:14:39 PM »
Yesterday, finally it was warm enough to go for a tuning ride. It was total crap. Ran very poorly, no power and not very responsive to the throttle. All I did was put those screen mesh in the carbs.
So I took it home and used the warmer afternoon to go for a ride on my V-Star. That felt good.

This morning I started in on finding out why it was running so poorly.
Big clue...after 30 seconds of running I felt all the pipes. Cylinder 2 was stone cold. So I am guessing that when I pulled the carbs and I had everything apart I broke a wire or pulled some wire out of a connector or something like that.  Either injector 2 is not connected or coil pack 2 is not connected.  I figure it out tomorrow. 

Update: It was a loose connection.
 
« Last Edit: March 02, 2020, 07:41:39 AM by gpineau »

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #67 on: March 02, 2020, 06:12:16 PM »
I need to run some test on a set of injectors.

I think the fuel pressure on a C14 is 58 psi.  Can anyone validate that pressure.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #68 on: March 02, 2020, 07:32:46 PM »
that's a bit high;

from the manual/


•Measure the fuel pressure with the engine stopped.
Fuel Pressure
right after Ignition Switch ON, with pump running:
Standard: 304 kPa (3.1 kgf/cm², 44 psi)
after 3 seconds from Ignition Switch ON, with pump
stopped:
Standard: 280 kPa (2.9 kgf/cm², 41 psi) , residual fuel
pressure
The system should hold the residual
pressure about 30 seconds.
•Start the engine, and let it idle. •Measure the fuel pressure with the engine idling.
Fuel Pressure (idling)
Standard: 304 kPa (3.1 kgf/cm², 44 psi)
NOTE
○The gauge hand will fluctuate. Read the pressure at the
average of the maximum and minimum indications.

from the manual...

also flow:

67ml (2.26oz) during the 3 second test.

good luck.

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #69 on: March 03, 2020, 09:21:54 AM »
Thanks for the information. I don't have a manual . 

It is getting harder and harder to google for information/data. More often you will get a few hundred advertisements for items remotely similar to what you were searching for. 

I  searched for " kawasaki c14 fuel regulator specs"  And waded through dozens of pages wanting to sell me a regulator. Finally I found a site that made a reference to 400kpa  which is where I got the 58 psi from

Seriously, Thanks again this information saved me from a very big mistake.

Offline MAN OF BLUES

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #70 on: March 03, 2020, 07:17:27 PM »
 :thumbs: :thumbs:
just ask.(feel free to p/m me and ask....)
 I am not going to make any more comments on your project, that you would deem as negative;
in retrospect, I feel compelled to share what I actually do know. we all need to work together in some fashion.
we have a huge data base, and can be accessed, at any moment. I also realize you do not have the longevity within the group, to understand, and access what we have done for more than a decade (actually more than 2 decades...)  in the past. just a fact, and not a foible.
truly,
best to you,
Rich

46 YEARS OF KAW.....  47 years of DEVO..

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #71 on: March 03, 2020, 11:27:12 PM »
MOB, will do.

I finally got around to turning that doc file into a html page that is readable online. So you don't need to download it and open it in a text editor.

http://gpineau.com/EFI/MOD_Kawasaki%20ZG1000%20to%20EFI-RO%20(6).htm


Offline fred-houston

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #72 on: March 04, 2020, 06:55:42 AM »
Mine runs at 40psi with no issues.
2001 BMW R1150GS
1999 C-10 (Semi Naked) EFI

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #73 on: March 04, 2020, 08:40:14 AM »
Mine runs at 40psi with no issues.

I've been running my regulator at 43.5psi.

The reason for my question was that I was wanting to characterize a new set of injectors and wanted to know the environment that the are normally in. But when I went looking for data on fuel pressure I could not find any other than a reference to to 400kpa on a C14 regulator which didn't seem right. 

 41-45 is about the right answer and I am happy to know that because with that bogus information i was ready to embark on an experiment that would not have yielded any useful data.

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #74 on: March 07, 2020, 06:09:17 PM »
A hole in my test method.

When I characterized these injectors I was able to get good data on CC/Minute and on slope of the voltage correction. But what I though i had found for the "dead time" was way off.  The default setting in tuner studio was better than the numbers i got from my test jig. 

So I went through an exercise to determine the dead time for the injectors while in the bike.
It involved running the bike at a dead time setting and use 1 squirt per cycle and record the AFR. Then repeat with 2 squirts. Compare the 2 AFR readings. If they are far apart then make .1 ms adjustments and repeat the test until the 2 AFR measurements are the same or very close to the same.

That did the trick the dead time was about 1.2ms.  I went for another tuning ride around the local neighborhood and performance was pretty good. Tomorrow I will take on a longer drive. Get out on the highway and go climbs some hills.  Tuner studio auto-tune is worth every penny.
https://youtu.be/yhRdv9BFkN8

Offline connie_rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #75 on: March 08, 2020, 08:39:31 AM »
Sounds like your making more progress….
Keep swinging. You'll get the bugs knocked out.

Ride safe, Ted

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #76 on: March 12, 2020, 01:21:20 PM »
The lowering rocker worked out well. That guy knew his geometry. It dropped the bike about an inch and a quarter.  I can now stand the bike up  straight without standing on my toes. Both feet on the ground. I feel much safer now. It could ba a half inch lower but for now I feel comfortable riding this.

The injectors I am using now came off a ZX14R and are a bit over-sized for this bike. They are preforming well but, I think that smaller injectors with a lower flow rate would be easier for the ECU to control and do fine adjustments to.

I have a set of injectors off a Kawasaki Z1000 that arrived the other day.

I am contemplating starting over with the small injectors to see what happens if anything.

Oh and I got some stick on decals that accent the tank.

Offline Hooligan

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2020, 03:06:46 AM »
This boney looks sweet man, great job :chugbeer: :chugbeer:
It is what it is....If not, it must be something else.
2012 K1600GT
2009 ZX14

gpineau

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #78 on: March 25, 2020, 10:01:14 PM »
I finally got some injectors for a 1000cc engine.   They came off a z1000. I also have the complete throttle bodies and fuel rail .

So I am thinking out loud here.....if i am going to change out the injectors then maybe use the z1000 throttle bodies as well.  If I hold the throttle bodies up to the head, the spacing is nearly perfect between 1-2 and between 3-4, however the gap between 2 -3 is different. I believe that if I put a small spacer between 2-3 I can make this fit.

Potential problem is if I increase the space between 2 -3 then it will probably screw up the linkage between them.



This is just me doing some thinking.
« Last Edit: March 26, 2020, 08:48:23 AM by gpineau »

Offline sport rider

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Re: C10 EFI Project
« Reply #79 on: March 26, 2020, 07:32:36 AM »
wish I had your skills!  I'll stick to fabrication.  :D