Author Topic: Ninja 1000  (Read 17831 times)

Offline jjsC6

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #40 on: July 12, 2012, 12:55:44 PM »
Jim, why not just run the test?  You have simultaneous access to both bikes and a (willing?) tester.  If the nearest "closed course" isn't too far away, we'd love to hear the actual test results.  My willing tester for such activities has move to OR for a couple of years, and the rest of the guys I ride with are less "scientifically inclined".  :)

Honestly, if you rode both of my bikes you'd know why I don't feel the need to.  I promise you that my Ninja will run off and hide from the Concours, as well is should.  It has more horsepower and weighs 200 lbs less, and has much lower gearing.  My friend and I don't usually ride the different bikes on the same day (yeah I know, we are kind of queer about that  :o) but if we ever do I'll tell him the forum wants us to run them to see how bad the carnage is.  BTW, we actually both have three bikes.  In addition to both having a Concours and Ninja, he has a Ducati 1198S and I have a Goldwing.  We've ridden those two together once.  The Ducati is a little faster  ;D
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
Current bikes....
2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #41 on: July 12, 2012, 08:08:52 PM »
Yes, you can.... at least the old bike you could, I ran mine that way almost 30 years ago!!!   :o

Should make it steer faster as you know, maybe drop the front 5 or 10 mm's as well.

Thanks for the compliment on tuning injection but as I remember any questions that I answered were just to confirm what you already knew!

Did you get the idle-2% throttle issue cleared-up? If so, you might think about posting what you did as it seems others have some of the same issues.  Just a thought.

Have fun Roland

Fretka

Yes, I did make that much better.  I'm running the fuel moto map in my c14.  PCV, files removed, and a Leo Vince slip on.  I was gettign a flat spot in tha tidle-2% range, at 1500-2000 rpm.  Just like a too lean pilot jet...which it basically was.

Fuel Moto was not much interested as they said this was lugging the bike.  I see that, except you do have to get through that rpm range every time you ride the bike...

You taught me how to read the dynojet table.  I noticed the fm map was taking away a lot of fuel in that exact range.  I did what you suggested and added back in 5% in that range.  The flat-spot decreased 90 percent when the bike is cold, and is gone when the engine is warm.

Now, the Ninja has what feels like a perfect map.  BUT, the idle appears to have an automatic fast idle for about the first 1 minute after starting the engine.  I've not felt that with the c14.....

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #42 on: July 12, 2012, 08:11:38 PM »
The next bike I"ll get ....the Versys 1000. Assuming we can ever get them in America. This Ninja engine is great, and actually feels very v twin like....well, v twin that revs and makes big power.  I dont care to offroad with it, but it would make an amazing offroad engine.

   

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #43 on: July 12, 2012, 10:14:21 PM »
It is funny how these two get compared so often, and probably a tribute to the Concours that it is compared.    The Concours feels massive when you climb on after being on the Ninja.  Not to mention passenger accommodations. The Ninja does have a seat and pegs for one, but barely.   Still, I love it.

I think my drivers license will as well.  I've been riding the concours as my only streetbike for the past 6 months.  I had an sv650s that was modified, but it just did not work very well coming off the c14. No brakes, no power, great handling though, and light. At least it was supposed to be light on a scale.  BUT, the fuel was positioned so high, and the bike set high.   It had a very uncomfortable feel to it at low speed and the bars seat, and pegs, were all wrong. The c14 was is smooth, comfortable, and relaxed feeling (at any speed) that I have to really watch the speedo carefully.  The ninja has that feeling of speed where 80 miles an hour feels like your moving.

The Ninja has a v twin like feel at low rpm's. WAY more torque than an inline four is supposed to have.  I hope the ninja front brakes break-in better, or I'll have to get some different pads.  So far, they are not as strong as the c14. The master cylinder is the same, but it has Tokico calipers instead of the Nissin.

Offline jjsC6

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #44 on: July 13, 2012, 06:06:43 AM »
Yes, I did make that much better.  I'm running the fuel moto map in my c14.  PCV, files removed, and a Leo Vince slip on.  I was gettign a flat spot in tha tidle-2% range, at 1500-2000 rpm.  Just like a too lean pilot jet...which it basically was.

Fuel Moto was not much interested as they said this was lugging the bike.  I see that, except you do have to get through that rpm range every time you ride the bike...

You taught me how to read the dynojet table.  I noticed the fm map was taking away a lot of fuel in that exact range.  I did what you suggested and added back in 5% in that range.  The flat-spot decreased 90 percent when the bike is cold, and is gone when the engine is warm.

Now, the Ninja has what feels like a perfect map.  BUT, the idle appears to have an automatic fast idle for about the first 1 minute after starting the engine.  I've not felt that with the c14.....

What year is your Concours?
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
Current bikes....
2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #45 on: July 13, 2012, 07:43:51 AM »
My Concours is a 2008 abs model.  Stock, except for the fly removal and LeoVince slip on. PCV as well, but nothing serious.  I almost posted that I wished my Ninja had abs, but hate to open that can of worms.  I know Kawasaki brought them in this year with abs, but I never saw one.

Offline jjsC6

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #46 on: July 13, 2012, 08:38:54 AM »
My Concours is a 2008 abs model.  Stock, except for the fly removal and LeoVince slip on. PCV as well, but nothing serious.  I almost posted that I wished my Ninja had abs, but hate to open that can of worms.  I know Kawasaki brought them in this year with abs, but I never saw one.

OK.  I have been wondering if anyone with a 10 or newer Concours had a PCV on it (because of the "eco" mode on the newer ones).

I agonized over whether to get an ABS or not as I swore I would never buy another bike without it.  But I liked the 2011 black ones and there were plenty of them available, and I rationalized that I mainly care about ABS in the rain and would seldom ride the Ninja in the rain.  So much for that, in the past two weeks I've ridden it twice in the rain. 
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
Current bikes....
2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #47 on: July 13, 2012, 12:27:40 PM »
OK.  I have been wondering if anyone with a 10 or newer Concours had a PCV on it (because of the "eco" mode on the newer ones).

I agonized over whether to get an ABS or not as I swore I would never buy another bike without it.  But I liked the 2011 black ones and there were plenty of them available, and I rationalized that I mainly care about ABS in the rain and would seldom ride the Ninja in the rain.  So much for that, in the past two weeks I've ridden it twice in the rain.

LOL...I could have made this post.  Plus, I was caught in the rain this morning...on the non abs Ninja.

Offline jjsC6

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #48 on: July 13, 2012, 04:18:38 PM »
LOL...I could have made this post.  Plus, I was caught in the rain this morning...on the non abs Ninja.

There is a good chance I'll get caught in the rain again tomorrow.  I have not ridden the bike since July 4th (yeah,  whopping 9 days) and I'm having withdrawals.  8)
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
Current bikes....
2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #49 on: July 13, 2012, 07:26:21 PM »
Its not rained here for at least 6 weeks.  The last week was over 100.   I buy the bike.   I was nto abel to ride it home, even, since I was on call at work.

I did ride 50 miles total, but it was tough to find the time.  Then my 8 year old granddaughter moved in with us...which is wonderful and this has truly been my dream come true.   So no complaints about not riding today.  The instant my wife made it home today, it started to rain, and is supposed to for the next few days.  So, since no riding, I decided to install the Muzzy fender eliminator

I installed my Muzzy fender eliminator tonight and it looks much better and is a well made part.  However, wire routing was a nightmare. The subfram eon the Ninja 1000 is a work of art.  I've never seen a subframe with this much technology in it.  It reminds me of a Cannondale bicycle frame in quality.

Its a cast piece and every square inch of it has been utilized.  There's even a cast hollow area to hold the tool kit and it woudl even hold extra tools.  A person coudl probably fit two 12 oz sodas in there as well as the toolkit.  I had mine put together by the time I thought of it, but heres a picture of one.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-1000-ZX1000-Rear-sub-frame-subframe-under-seat-section-/271008393228?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f195be80c&vxp=mtr

My granddaughter does like the ninja.  She bugged me all day to "paint my fingernails" since she said she had an idea for a design. I let her do one finger as it was already smashed and purple....


Offline jjsC6

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #50 on: July 13, 2012, 07:55:59 PM »
Its not rained here for at least 6 weeks.  The last week was over 100.   I buy the bike.   I was nto abel to ride it home, even, since I was on call at work.

I did ride 50 miles total, but it was tough to find the time.  Then my 8 year old granddaughter moved in with us...which is wonderful and this has truly been my dream come true.   So no complaints about not riding today.  The instant my wife made it home today, it started to rain, and is supposed to for the next few days.  So, since no riding, I decided to install the Muzzy fender eliminator

I installed my Muzzy fender eliminator tonight and it looks much better and is a well made part.  However, wire routing was a nightmare. The subfram eon the Ninja 1000 is a work of art.  I've never seen a subframe with this much technology in it.  It reminds me of a Cannondale bicycle frame in quality.

Its a cast piece and every square inch of it has been utilized.  There's even a cast hollow area to hold the tool kit and it woudl even hold extra tools.  A person coudl probably fit two 12 oz sodas in there as well as the toolkit.  I had mine put together by the time I thought of it, but heres a picture of one.  http://www.ebay.com/itm/2010-Kawasaki-Ninja-ZX-1000-ZX1000-Rear-sub-frame-subframe-under-seat-section-/271008393228?pt=Motorcycles_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f195be80c&vxp=mtr

My granddaughter does like the ninja.  She bugged me all day to "paint my fingernails" since she said she had an idea for a design. I let her do one finger as it was already smashed and purple....

You'd be amazed at what I keep under there.  Also, under the seat is room for a tire repair kit.  I just be sure I have an allen wrench in the tool kit to take the seat off.  I also have my Power Commander and Auto tune under the seat. I have not gotten around to the fender eliminator yet.  In case you have any questions, here are the mods I have done to mine...

Akrapovik Full Race Exhaust
BMC air filter element
Power Commander (PCV)
PCV Auto Tune module
Ivans PAIR block off plate
Ivans servo eliminator
    Here is a Link to the Ivans stuff..  http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/2010z1000.htm
Sargent seat
Heal Tech Gear indicator (Gipro)
Radar Detector & Marc Parnes LEDs for the Radar Detector
Kawasaki Rear Cowl (replaces rear seat)
Powerlet for heated jacket liner

I think that's all.  I plan to do the fender eliminator and smoked wind screen and probably heated grips for winter
Jim
2010 Concours - Sold Feb 2013
Current bikes....
2011 Ninja 1000, 2013 BMW 1600 GT, 2012 Ducati Panigale

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #51 on: July 13, 2012, 08:49:39 PM »
I dont think I mentioned this about the rebate, though. I would have loved the rebate, BUT Kawasaki is offering 0 down, zero percent, for 60 months and the ninja 1000 and c14 both qualify.

JJS, thats a nice list of mods...very cool stuff, for sure.

Offline shreveportSS

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #52 on: July 20, 2012, 05:25:50 PM »
I have not ridden a Concours set up like yours, but I cannot even fathom that the Concours could have more response than the Ninja.  No need talking about how much torque there is because that is only a part of it.  Lighter weight and gearing make up a huge amount of why the Ninja is more responsive.  I have not tried it, but I would bet money that in a 60mph roll on, my Ninja (even stock) would pull away from the Concours in sixth gear even if I downshifted the Concours to fourth.  The guy I ride with agrees.   I would not think that any mods to the Concours short of a turbo would make up the difference. 

It's a nice conversation to have between the two bikes though, isn't it  :chugbeer:
Ninja 1000 1/4 mile time 10.81
http://www.motorcycle-usa.com/156/11124/Motorcycle-Article/2011-Kawasaki-Ninja-1000-Comparison.aspx

THis one says 11.3  ???
http://www.sportrider.com/performance_numbers/146_motorcycle_performance_numbers/kawasaki.html

Seems most cycle magazines test the Connie around 10.78
2011 Concours 14
2011 ZX1000GBF Ninja. Died Dec. 1st, 2012
2012 ZX1000HBF Ninja.

Offline rcannon409

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Re: Ninja 1000
« Reply #53 on: July 21, 2012, 04:17:16 PM »
I'm not sure about overall SPEED between the two bikes.  Compared to the Ninja, the c14 throttle cable feels like its made of rubber...literally, it does.  The response is there, just  a little muted.

The Ninja feels like a well tuned two stroke, in comparison.  Also, where the c14 pulls smooth (but hard)  the Ninja pulls hard down low, then goes into warp speed at 6000. Its very fun to play with. 

The gear ratios are very different as well.  On the c14 a person can be on the freeway, 65 mph, and realize your in 4th gear. That wont happen on the Ninja as the ratios are lower, and much closer together.

I know the bikes get compared a lot, and I think thats because the Ninja does not fit well into any class.  Its not a full on supersport, yet not exactly a sport tourer either.  The c14 is a tourer in overall size, yet has a sporty feel about it that does not fit the touring category.