Author Topic: ECU flashing now available  (Read 133699 times)

Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #280 on: May 30, 2016, 08:39:45 PM »
Every once in a while, I still get a really large clunk when going from off the throttle to on throttle leaving a corner, very frustrating.  I'm not just whacking the throttle on, I roll it on.  Steve, I'd love to supply some parameters to you on how to clean this up, if it's even possible.  What are the inputs you need?   I haven't tried to repeat it, maybe I can sometime.  A guess would be a transition from off to on throttle, not rapid. 2nd or 3rd gear, maybe 5k rpm, 65F ambient temp, coolant temp nominal.  I am not sure if it's trailing/partial throttle or completely closed throttle, but I do know I'm just opening it smoothly, not whacking it to WOT.

I suspect some of this is just drive train slack being taken up, but that happens every time you transition from off to on throttle.  This doesn't.

I'm not ready to do a full review of the flash, as I only have about 100 miles of town riding done to get a feel for the low speed behavior.  I will make three observations on PIP's comments as I was thinking about them as I was riding today:

1.  My Connie doesn't like to be short-shifted, especially 2nd to 3rd.
2.  My Connie doesn't like a heavy hand on the clutch release when upshifting- any gear; let it go quickly and get on or stay on the gas.
3.  My Connie has responded to the flash as if it were equipped with a CVT (continuously variable transmission); the weakness is in the driveline.

I can feel what PIP is talking about on occasion, but I think I can clean it up with technique and a relearning of how to ride with the flash.  A clue is being able to ride in a higher gear than one might expect.  Now I'm talking about town riding, not medium/high speed curves. It is fun to putt-putt around town at speeds 10-50mph... all in 5th gear.
2001 ZR-7s "Ol' Red"
1995 FXDWG

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #281 on: May 30, 2016, 09:20:18 PM »
Let me add one thing... check your battery connections. I had a 2016 I flashed exhibit some really weird shifting / throttle issues, after messing around with the bike it was CLEARLY the ground connection at the battery. tightened it, everything is 100%, smooth as silk. Steve

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #282 on: May 30, 2016, 09:24:15 PM »
It is fun to putt-putt around town at speeds 10-50mph... all in 5th gear.

10MPH in 5th???  Lugger!!!   I would never dream of subjecting the engine to that.  2nd certainly... maybe 3rd on rare occasion or by mistake.  Based on gearing, I am not even sure it is physically possible to go 10MPH in 5th (far too late at night to drag out the data and perform the math).
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #283 on: May 30, 2016, 09:42:54 PM »
No lugging as I recall. Oh, I see you have the Guhl flash. 8)
2001 ZR-7s "Ol' Red"
1995 FXDWG

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #284 on: May 30, 2016, 11:11:56 PM »
No lugging as I recall. Oh, I see you have the Guhl flash. 8)

You know quite well there won't be any noticeable difference between the two when it comes to lugging the engine....  You is be a lugger!!
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #285 on: May 31, 2016, 04:25:18 AM »
You know quite well there won't be any noticeable difference between the two when it comes to lugging the engine....  You is be a lugger!!

Well, my Connie IS the black 2011; I see you got the silver one. :stirpot:

I was testing the 1-2 gears higher claim in the extreme down main street and distinctly recall going about 10 mph in 5th at about 1000 rpm. Maybe I daydreamed it. Will video next outing.
2001 ZR-7s "Ol' Red"
1995 FXDWG

Offline sanmo

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #286 on: May 31, 2016, 05:05:30 AM »
This is quite amazing....  Got 51mpg going down south 75-80mph on I95/85.  Coming home got 55mpg and this is with the CB ultra tour dome barn door screen (nearly all the way down) with a mixture of two lane and Interstate driving.  To say that I'm well pleased with this development is an understatement.  I have never seen those numbers before I got the flash.  I will say that I've never experienced issues with driveability before or after the flash.  Power does seem better though.  I had this sentence popping up in my head the whole time today out of the blue....'this is a serious motorcycle'.  Probably one of the voices I hear but that one is on my side this time.   :thumbs:

Admittedly I haven't kept up with the lengthy discussion of the reflashing phenom, but when should we be worried whether the bike is running too lean? Not good, unless I'm mistaken.   :)
2008 Silverdammit C14

Offline maxtog

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #287 on: May 31, 2016, 05:41:51 AM »
Admittedly I haven't kept up with the lengthy discussion of the reflashing phenom, but when should we be worried whether the bike is running too lean? Not good, unless I'm mistaken.   :)

You are not mistaken- running lean is very bad.  Running rich robs performance and causes extra deposits to form, slowly.  Running lean is much worse because it can lead to detonation, which can severely damage the engine.  I suspect Kawasaki tunes their bikes too rich on purpose as a safety measure.  If you use decent gas, the odds of needing that safety are probably pretty small, however.
Shoodaben (was Guhl) Mountain Runner ECU flash, Canyon Cages front/rear, Helibars risers, Phil's wedges, Grip Puppies, Sargent World seat-low & heated & pod, Muzzy lowering links, Soupy's stand, Nautilus air horn, Admore lightbar, Ronnie's highway pegs, front running lights, all LED, helmet locks, RAM Xgrip, Sena SMH10, Throttle Tamer, MRA X-Creen, BearingUp Shifter, PR4-GT, Scorpion EXO-T1200,etc

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #288 on: May 31, 2016, 09:53:42 AM »
Admittedly I haven't kept up with the lengthy discussion of the reflashing phenom, but when should we be worried whether the bike is running too lean? Not good, unless I'm mistaken.   :)

Let's remember that running lean induces misfires and costs fuel economy, it doesn't help it. Also running to lean has a very flat throttle response and decreased power... I haven't seen anyone reporting any of these issues. steve

Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #289 on: May 31, 2016, 12:49:47 PM »
PIP, I would need exact info as to the rpm, and throttle position. Part of it, I can tell you, will be the ambient temps. at 65 the engine is being richened by the defaults in the ecu. It gets better around 75. I cleaned a bunch of the on / off throttle stuff up, but it's really hard because I don't ride the same as you, and I have to find the exact cells to do it. Really hard to do if it only does it "sometimes". Steve

I am sure there is a scenario where I can get it to clunk.  I will have to give it some thought and come up with a test plan.

I can tell you this, the throttle position is at zero or very close and then it gets opened, this is when the clunk occurs.  I can try it at a series of RPM where I transition from off to on throttle.  That's it, those are the only parameters?  The gear you're in doesn't play a part?  It did it before also (pre flash). 

Is it a fueling map?  It feels basically like I give it too much gas and it slams all the drivetrain slop out of it.  But I'm not, my throttle twist is easy and it acts like it's not easy.  I will attempt to somewhat scientifically reproduce it. 

Thanks
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline gPink

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #290 on: May 31, 2016, 01:08:43 PM »
PiP, no offense but have you adjusted all the freeplay out of the throttle cables?

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #291 on: May 31, 2016, 01:25:50 PM »
OK, it did it before, pre-flash? it's not in the flash. I'm glad you told me that. My tune is WAY different than stock so this is not something that is in the tunes if they both did it.

 Check your ground connections DO NOT THINK I'M JOKING.

 I did a flash a couple weeks ago on a 2016. Guy says the bike has all the issues , hesitation, flatness, etc.  Under 600 miles, wants me to flash it. I did, then when riding it had some really weird upshifts, like the gearing was to low and it rocked back and forth...very disconcerting.  Never felt that before, so I worked on the clutch adjustment, throttle free play, etc. It felt fine. Guy leaves the shop, calls me in a hour, says "it's doing it again" along with some lean surge, although when he was running WOT hard accells it was fine.  Now I've done almost 200 flashes, never heard anything negative like this. After think about it for a bit I told him I thought there was a bad ground connection and the coils were overheating and not producing enough energy. Sure enough, the ground on the battery was loose. I tightened it up and all the issues went away. CHECK YOUR GROUNDS!!! Steve

Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #292 on: June 01, 2016, 05:57:45 AM »
I will check the grounds.  I only know of the ground at the battery?  If there are more, let me know.  I am leaving on a 4700 mile trip out west 6-23-16. 

I rode home last night and messed around.  It's right at 3k.  It did it before and after the flash. It's one of the reasons I bought the flash.  The lower the gear, the worse it is. 

Any gear, worse in lower gears, most prominent in 2nd and 3rd.  A big snap in 1st will make it wheely, heh heh.  That's a bit much for the old girl thought.

Scenario
70F ambient
Completely off throttle to partially open throttle (NOT a snap to full accel)
Huge difference in various rpm, 4k is OK, 2.5k is OK

Sure seems like mapping.  It's partially caused by the shaft drive, you're loading one side of the gears on decel, then slapping over to the other side as you roll on and take up the driveline slack.  But at 3k, it's worse as it goes from low something to way more something (fuel, I assume).
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #293 on: June 01, 2016, 07:06:59 AM »
I will check the grounds.  I only know of the ground at the battery?  If there are more, let me know.  I am leaving on a 4700 mile trip out west 6-23-16. 

I rode home last night and messed around.  It's right at 3k.  It did it before and after the flash. It's one of the reasons I bought the flash.  The lower the gear, the worse it is. 

Any gear, worse in lower gears, most prominent in 2nd and 3rd.  A big snap in 1st will make it wheely, heh heh.  That's a bit much for the old girl thought.

Scenario
70F ambient
Completely off throttle to partially open throttle (NOT a snap to full accel)
Huge difference in various rpm, 4k is OK, 2.5k is OK

Sure seems like mapping.  It's partially caused by the shaft drive, you're loading one side of the gears on decel, then slapping over to the other side as you roll on and take up the driveline slack.  But at 3k, it's worse as it goes from low something to way more something (fuel, I assume).

  Yeah, I know what you are feeling... it's not mapping though I understand why you would think so, if I didn't know better I would too. I worked all that hard during building the maps, and going from closed throttle to open throttle can be a problem like you're experiencing, so I worked hard to smooth that transition because I ride like that too.

   Now back to the battery issue - If I hadn't ridden on it, I would have  a real hard time understanding it, but yeah, it showed itself as really bad upshifts. Everything else felt normal til the shift...WOW that was bad. worse in the low gears, but even cruising 4th gear around 3k then rolling the throttle on would give this big bang of power, like the TPS skipped over all the transition cells and went right to cells that gave a lot of fuel. Terrible. I would have been really flipped out and worried if I didn't have as much experience with the flash, but I knew it was not the flash, it was in the bike, so I went after it from that angle. Sure enough, found the ground at the battery was loose. tightened it up and the bike runs 100% perfect. Who in the world woulld think the battery connection would do that? BTW, the big clue was when the owner told me it did that before the flash, too... that really helped me be sure it was in the bike. Let's see if that's the case with yours. Check the battery first.  Steve

Offline Deziner

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #294 on: June 01, 2016, 07:22:31 AM »
There is an AMAZING amount of knowledge to be gained by hanging out on this forum.
God does not subtract from a man's life the number of hours spent riding a motorcycle

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Offline PlaynInPeoria

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #295 on: June 01, 2016, 08:37:36 AM »
I will take a look and report back ASAP.

Thanks for your input!
2012 "root beer" C14 - unlinked brakes, reflash, LED headlights, Walmart orange city lights, LOUD horn, Laam seat, radar detector for ahem, reasons.
2013 Aprilia Tuono, 2009 CRF-150F

Offline VirginiaJim

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #296 on: June 01, 2016, 11:19:00 AM »
This bike is very sensitive to voltage issues and the battery area can develop loose connections and invisible corrosion.  Good to check these things at least once a year if not sooner.
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Offline DaddyFlip

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #297 on: June 01, 2016, 12:32:29 PM »
Maybe we need to get Steve to come up with a kickstart conversion to eliminate the battery.  This would eliminate Kipass, which would make 'the other half' happy as well.  That way, next time someone complains about anything on the bike, from starting, to shifting, to givin' it gas, we can all say, "You Shoodakickstartedit."

Steve- I hand over to you all rights to everything in this post.
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Offline Cold Streak

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #298 on: June 01, 2016, 02:15:41 PM »
Meh, that would start a discussion about the optimum length of the kick start lever, what sort of tip it needs, et al.  I couldn't take it.

Offline Steve in Sunny Fla

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Re: ECU flashing now available
« Reply #299 on: June 01, 2016, 04:12:37 PM »
Meh, that would start a discussion about the optimum length of the kick start lever, what sort of tip it needs, et al.  I couldn't take it.

 Me either :o  Steve