Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => The Bike - C10 => Topic started by: nevadazx12 on April 28, 2013, 11:50:03 am

Title: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on April 28, 2013, 11:50:03 am
The bike has been sitting since late last year, probably November.  Did start a couple times during the winter.  Drug it out of the garage, gave it an oil change and proceeded to ride it again.  Had about 1/2 tank of gas in bike.  Rode to Tahoe and stayed the night, went to start the next morning and it just turned over feeble attempts to fire, managed to get some starting fluid in there and it finally limped into running.  figured it was bad gas, new fuel, next morning same routine, feeble attempts to fire, barley firing at all. Went to my shop, added new plugs now. fresh gas and still it doesn't want to start right. 
Saturday morning, went to start same issues, this time got it running and had gas leak around petcock, replaced swollen plug on vacuum port and made it to my shop.  Fixed the petcock, cleaned and resealed (I converted it to a manual, couple years ago).  This morning, I went to get some more gas, fired right up at shop (heated garage) got to station, filled it up and it didn't want to start again.  Finally did with some effort.  Seemed like it gurgled a little coming off no throttle into mid range.  Just doesn't seem right., like I have some gunk in carbs, possibly keeping a float from closing.  Left bike at home today, just don't want to take a chance of it not wanting to start. Beautiful day too, wanted to ride around Lake, but today is do stuff with SO. May have to pull carbs (NO!!-- :P NOT AGAIN), any ideas????????
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: Jet86 on April 28, 2013, 12:53:41 pm
kinked fuel line ? just a thought since i just went threw this recently.
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on April 28, 2013, 03:29:43 pm
No, don't think so.  Runs good at full throttle, just PIA to start now.  Did take up slack on throttle cables, but still have some so I don't think that is the cause.  Ran great when I parked it last fall.  Going to put some SEA FOAM in tank, maybe that will clean it up a little. Just procrastinating pulling them carbs again.  Real PIA, had to get new boots last time I did.

gg
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: T Cro ® on April 28, 2013, 05:28:40 pm
Ran great when I parked it last fall.  Going to put some SEA FOAM in tank, maybe that will clean it up a little. Just procrastinating pulling them carbs again.  Real PIA, had to get new boots last time I did.

How does it start when you use the choke (AKA fuel enrichening circuit) ???

Sounds like you already know the answer in that your slow speed jets are clogged... They are tiny and plug easy...
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on April 28, 2013, 08:47:08 pm
Hi Tony, nice of you to look at problem.  Yeah, I fugure something is clogged, when I use the choke, which I have to I order to start, no go just spins with firing in background.  Always had to use choke on first start up.  Made no difference if off and giving it throttle, in fact when doing that the firing in the background doesn't happen.  Put the Sea Foam in, the whole can.  Fired right up, but it was in garage, ran kind of ratty then plug cleared and it sounded normal.  Ran until hot then shut off, tried a couple hours later and it sprang to life.  Of course the real test is colder weather about 40 or lower at 6300 feet.  I still suspect gunk in needles or low speed jets like you mentioned.  Got fingers crossed.

gg
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: T Cro ® on April 28, 2013, 08:55:32 pm
You might want to change your oil after you burn out that tank of fuel with the SeaFoam in it; an entire can is a lot to add to the tank and can get into your oil..
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on April 29, 2013, 06:57:32 am
Tony,

thanks, I will do that.  Can did say to add to the contents to  8-25 gallons and the tank was full.  Now to place an order with Murph for some new oil filters.

regards,

gg
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on April 30, 2013, 10:54:50 am
Report for Tuesday.  Temp was in high 30s, elevation about 6300 feet.  Bike just turned over and over no hint of any spark.  After a bit ot spinning with the choke on there was a hint of firing, but really faint and not enough to really turn the engine over faster than the starter could.  This time I  brought a red plastic noozle with me to fit on the end of the starting fluid.  I have equalization tubes running between 1&4 and 2&3.  PUlled the hose off the No 1 end gave it a good shot of starter fluid and it fired and started.  Kind of lame but I could get it going and cleared it out and it ran.  Ran good all the way to 8900 feet and back down the other side, no hint of any carb troubles while running.  So it seems that starting is the issue, is there any special carb circuitry involved in starting that is not used in running????  Looked in my factrory service manual, not much mentioned other than cable adjustments as far as choke concerned.

gg
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: JDM on May 05, 2013, 05:37:42 pm
I think your battery is a bit low. If you have a volt meter, check the battery voltage and see if it is around 12.7 to 12.9 volts at rest no load. If the voltage is not that high, you need to charge your battery. If it is 12.7 to 12.9 volts, then try this cold start procedure. Open the petcock to prime and count to 20 or so and then pull the choke full open and tap the starter until the bike hits (usually 3 or 4 taps). After it hits, put the petcock to the on position, then start cranking. It should start up and run with the choke full on. Let it warm up a bit before you take the choke off.  HTH
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: George R. Young on May 05, 2013, 06:44:00 pm
Ignition wires? Corrosion?

Had similar problem and measured resistance from cap 1 to cap 4 and cap 2 to cap 3. Each pair should read about 22 Kohms (2 x 5K resistors, 12K secondary resistance). So I pulled the caps off the wires and was rewarded with green corrosion in some cases, black burnt stuff in others. Cut about 1/4" off each wire, stuffed them back in, they now measure 22Kohms like they should.
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: JDM on May 05, 2013, 07:21:22 pm
Ignition wires? Corrosion?

Had similar problem and measured resistance from cap 1 to cap 4 and cap 2 to cap 3. Each pair should read about 22 Kohms (2 x 5K resistors, 12K secondary resistance). So I pulled the caps off the wires and was rewarded with green corrosion in some cases, black burnt stuff in others. Cut about 1/4" off each wire, stuffed them back in, they now measure 22Kohms like they should.

Good point, would you mind posting up on how you went about checking it. That would be good info and worth becoming a sticky. 
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: George R. Young on May 05, 2013, 08:33:30 pm
Alrighty, each plug cap has about 5 kilohms resistance and the coil secondary is around 12 kilohms. So if you pull the plug caps off and stick and ohmeter into caps 1 and 4 (or 2 & 3), you should read around 22 kilohms.

Mine were reading infinite due to corrosion. I eventually replaced the caps as I couldn't clean them out completely. NGK_SD05F bolt right in.
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on May 13, 2013, 02:38:58 pm
Can't be the plug wires.  I bought a set of Tony's individual coil/plug kits when he first built them a few years ago. This morning it started without the starting fluid process, things are looking up.

thanks all,

gg
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: JDM on May 14, 2013, 05:49:02 pm
It takes a good battery to fire the stick coils. If it were me, I would load test the battery and make sure you are getting enough cranking amps and voltage at start up to fire the stick coils.
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: T Cro ® on May 14, 2013, 06:23:51 pm
It takes a good battery to fire the stick coils. If it were me, I would load test the battery and make sure you are getting enough cranking amps and voltage at start up to fire the stick coils.

It takes a good battery to fire the Concours period...... Otherwise yes good point if the bike has a weakened battery while it may still turn over fairly well there is not enough reserve left in the battery to provide enough voltage to allow for a good strong spark. Even when cranking a battery should not fall below 12 VDC...
Title: Re: Suddenly hard to start
Post by: nevadazx12 on June 02, 2013, 07:04:15 pm
Well I finally gave up after it wouldn't start last week after a cold night.  Contacted SISF and sent the carbs off for a total rebuild and overflow kits. 
Battery is relatively new about a year old, had been on a float charger during the winter.