Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C10, aka Kawasaki Concours - The Original => Accessories and Modifications - C10 => Topic started by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 15, 2013, 07:51:49 pm

Title: Free power!
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on December 15, 2013, 07:51:49 pm
  Here ya go - Steve

Free Power for Concours ZG1000 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFK3AaZ_Uwo#)
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: gPink on December 16, 2013, 03:51:34 am
Very nice Steve. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: T Cro ® on December 16, 2013, 06:18:02 am
Great video Steve....

It did not strike me when you and I first spoke about this but it did after watching the video I think the reason I've never noticed any oddity on my bike is that one of the first mods on my bike was to add an extra fuse bank. But at the same time I also added an extra negative block that is heavily fortified both to battery and ground. Thus even though I've got a lot of extra electrical draw on my bike I've never asked the stock wiring harness to handle ANY of this extra load power or ground wise... In fact I've reduced it as my headlight has long been running on it's own power leads straight from the battery.

Voltage loss is very critical to the ignition on these bikes and Kawasaki did us no favor when they sized the wire gauge to no bigger than absolutely needed; add in a few connections that are not 100 % and you've quickly lost some precious voltage.

Another good reason to connect the now unused ground wire solidly to the frame when you install the stick coil conversion harness.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: RFH87_Connie on December 16, 2013, 06:26:28 am
Nice!  Great idea.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Roadhound on December 16, 2013, 09:20:39 am
Very nice find, thanks for sharing.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: mlf73 on December 16, 2013, 03:35:57 pm
I'm not sure how much is my imagination and how much is actual improvement but this "mod" seems to make a tremendous difference in power on my 02.  I have to admit that I did the quick version and just ran a ground from the accessory ground to the frame so far because I was anxious to  see what happened.  I haven't ridden a lot lately but the bike just seemed so much more responsive to the throttle on my short test ride a few minutes ago.  It's kind of cool here with temps just above 50 but after the bike was warmed up, she just seemed more spirited than ever.  I revved it a few times as I was putting her back in the garage... it just felt like it had more power than normal, revved easier and even sounded more powerful.  I'll have to do a little more test riding later in the week and see if I still have the same impression.  I guess it will be easy right now to compare with and without this mod by just pulling the lead from the accessory ground lead and see if I can tell a difference.  I'll probably go with the same configuration as Steve if I decide to make this permanent.  Thanks once again to Steve and all of the other members here for all that you guys do to make our bikes better!
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: timsatx on December 18, 2013, 06:34:32 am
Sounds like a neat idea, and great video by the way. I am always up for free stuff so this is right up my alley.  :thumbs: :goodpost:
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Boomer on December 19, 2013, 05:18:24 am
One thing you need to be wary of is a ground loop.
This is where you have different paths to ground.
What can happen is that you get a slight voltage difference on one path from another (due to minutely different resistances) which can lead to oscillations in that loop which can interfere with electronic equipment.
Likely minor side effects are interference with any radio equipment but in the worst case it can interfere with the firing signals for the CDI leading to erratic ignition.
Ground on a motorcycle is the -ve terminal on the battery.

I will also be trying Steve's idea this weekend with a specific wire direct to the battery -ve.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Pfloydgad on December 21, 2013, 07:41:53 pm
TY Steve,
And since it is looking like a pretty wet day here in Central Ohio for Sunday, I now have a project for Hey Baby.
Everyone ride safe out there.
Greg
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Fuller56 on December 25, 2013, 08:14:41 pm
Steve,
Thanks for the video and the idea.  I performed this mod on my '06 the other day.  I have not noticed more power, but I haven't pushed hard enough to tell.  I did notice it is much less buzzy on the interstate.  This bike is one that is quite a bit buzzier than the Y2K that came before it.  Thanks!
John
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: gregman_1 on January 28, 2014, 10:11:11 pm
Nice find Steve!  I'll give it a shot on Sofie and test it out when the snow melts.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Pfloydgad on February 23, 2014, 06:22:07 pm
WOW,
What a difference in throttle response and acceleration. One of the best mods I have ever made, TY Steve.
Ride safe all,
Greg
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: connie_rider on February 26, 2014, 04:03:15 pm
I still haven't gotten around to doing it.
But SOOOONNNN!!

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: RFH87_Connie on February 27, 2014, 05:34:33 am
I still haven't gotten around to doing it.
But SOOOONNNN!!

Ride safe, Ted

Me too.  I even rewatched the video on Monday so I know what to do without instructions.  It's not fun when its 20-30 degrees in the garage.  As our weather goes, it’s been a pretty cold and tough winter here in NoVA.  I've burned 3 cords of wood and have enough for one more fire (maybe tomorrow night when it is 16d).  Then it is heat pump only time.  We'll get a $350 electric bill out of it.
Title: Will Free power mod fix parasitic drag on my '86?
Post by: Matt L on May 24, 2014, 08:56:10 am
Steve, thanks much for these and your other posts.  It is not my intent to hijack your thread, but I wonder if you could comment whether or not the "free power" mod could address a parasitic drain that my '86 has (w/36K miles).  Since I purchased the bike from the original owner 5 yrs ago, the owner gave me a battery tender (and suggested I use it).  If the bike is off the tender for over two weeks, the battery goes dead (even with a new battery).  I know that this kind of drain could be anywhere on the bike.  The bike is 100% stock with no apparent wiring re-work.  Lastly, the owner told me he installed a refurb J-box from Larry Buck just before I bought the bike.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Daytona_Mike on May 24, 2014, 11:12:08 am
I can answer that- NO - but do it anyway.
Unhook the battery for two weeks and do not put it on a charger. Take  a voltage reading before and after.
How much did it drop in two weeks with one post disconnected and  no charger?
New batteries can be defective too. What new battery do you have and how new?
Matt- Did you paint your bike yourself. It looks familiar.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Matt L on May 24, 2014, 03:04:24 pm
I can answer that- NO - but do it anyway.
Unhook the battery for two weeks and do not put it on a charger. Take  a voltage reading before and after.
How much did it drop in two weeks with one post disconnected and  no charger?
New batteries can be defective too. What new battery do you have and how new?
Matt- Did you paint your bike yourself. It looks familiar.

Thanks Mike.  I do not know the maker of the current battery.  Although I do know that it is sealed.  The other one that went bad for being off the charger for awhile was not (that battery was only two years old).  Each experienced the same drain. 

Regarding the paint, I painted it myself.  I was told it looks a lot like another member; I think his name his Snarf.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: connie_rider on May 25, 2014, 06:58:08 am
Matt, I think there is a way to search for the culprit that is draining the battery.

Electrical guru's please correct me if I am wrong!!

"key off"
Remove the ground wire to the battery.
Place an inexpensive (harbor freight type) volt meter between the negative lead and the battery negative.
You should see 12 volts on the meter.
Disconnect the clock, (that will remove all power that is supposed to be on).
You should see 0 volts.
If you see volts,,,
   start pulling fuses and unplugging wires. ("1" at a time)
Eventually you will see the voltage drop to 0.
When that happens, you will know approx. where the drain is located.
Keep troubleshooting from there and you should find the drain.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Nosmo on May 25, 2014, 12:32:17 pm
Matt, I think there is a way to search for the culprit that is draining the battery.

Electrical guru's please correct me if I am wrong!!

"key off"
Remove the ground wire to the battery.
Place an inexpensive (harbor freight type) volt meter between the negative lead and the battery negative.
You should see 12 volts on the meter.
Disconnect the clock, (that will remove all power that is supposed to be on).
You should see 0 volts.
If you see volts,,,
   start pulling fuses and unplugging wires. ("1" at a time)
Eventually you will see the voltage drop to 0.
When that happens, you will know approx. where the drain is located.
Keep troubleshooting from there and you should find the drain.

Ride safe, Ted

Correct procedure, except you are looking for current draw (amps), instead of volts.  Switch the meter to "ammeter" function and you'll be good.  Note:  Always connect ammeter in series.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Matt L on May 26, 2014, 11:15:39 pm
Copy all guys.  Thanks!
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: dhidaka on June 21, 2014, 02:10:21 pm
Nice tip. Thanks, Steve

I wired the ground wire on my '05 a little differently. Instead of cutting the black/yellow wire going to the igniter I "T-spliced" a piece of wire onto the original wire by soldering. Then ran that wire directly to the negative post on my battery. That way I accomplished the same thing you outlined in your video, only with fewer connections.

Your modification recommendation seems to improve throttle response and acceleration. Of course this is very subjective without dyno comparisons. But, as it is now, this leads me to believe that the ignition system as it comes from the factory is not as strong as it should be. If an ignition system will handle increased spark gaps, there is potentially some power there. Now, with a supposedly stronger spark I think I will increase the spark plug gap .005" plus the next time I have my gas tank off. I might even try a plug gap increase up to .020" to see what happens. If anyone would like to try this, give us a report. 
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: T Cro ® on June 22, 2014, 08:07:53 am
I will add that I see no good reason to increase spark plug gap any wider than factory spec and in fact keep mine on the narrow end of the spec... You will not see any notable increase in power and will only increase the chances of a spark not making the jump further down the road once the plugs begin to show signs of wear... Better to have a stong spark jumping a short gap than a weak spark not making the jump at all...
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: T Cro ® on August 09, 2014, 07:18:02 am
  Here ya go - Steve

Free Power for Concours ZG1000 ([url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFK3AaZ_Uwo#[/url])


Wanted to see this topic brought back to the top as it is a very good and simple way to improve the performance of these grand old bikes.....
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Tzigane on January 22, 2015, 03:06:02 pm
Does this really work? I can't shake the feeling that it's just a quick fix that may improve an old bike where the wiring and contacts are just aged and not functioning as they did when the bike was still new. A cheat, instead of solving the real problems with an older bike.

I honestly do not know. Did anyone try this with a relative new bike? :)
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: connie_rider on January 22, 2015, 03:56:50 pm
Not a temporary fix.
As the bikes age, corrosion/resistance builds up on the wiring.
If your wiring is perfect, it could have the problem in the future...
This fix corrects that potential problem.
Well worth doing.

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Tzigane on March 30, 2015, 07:50:24 am
I tried it. Unfortunately at the same time as I cleaned my carbs, so I don't know for sure if there is improvement, but the bike seems to respond better to the throttle. :)
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: rrman1 on August 11, 2015, 02:48:10 pm
parasitic drain test can also be done w a test lite.  the lite serves to indicate amperage/flow which is draining the battery.  disconnect circuits one at a time till no lite.  guage lite bulb was recommended but i have always used a turn signal/tail lite bulb w success.  same procedure as connie rider listed.
     this method should show .4 amp very easily, especially if you observe the light filament closely for any glow at all.  response to below post.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Tzigane on August 24, 2015, 01:07:04 pm
Using a multimeter works better though. I recently had a power leak of 0,4A, holding a light between the battery and cable did nothing, but the meter did show a leak. (which I've managed to trace and fix. :) )
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: tradrockrat on November 13, 2015, 11:23:21 am
Hi all - I finally decided to do this MOD to my Connie today, and lo and behold - the previous owner already did it! 

WELL... he did it half way.  The direct ground to the battery from the igniter pigtail was done, but the black/yellow wire was just cut and sitting there. No pigtail, not loop to accessories, no nothing...  I'm assuming it can't be that bad because I've put near 3500 miles on the bike  this summer?

I'm going to run a pigtail to the fender like Steve did, but I thought I'd share one of those wonderful discoveries you can only get with older, pre-owned bikes.

Sad part is I was hoping to get some better response from the bike because I'm not happy with it, but apparently, this IS better response. 
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: RFH87_Connie on November 13, 2015, 12:12:31 pm
Sad part is I was hoping to get some better response from the bike because I'm not happy with it, but apparently, this IS better response.

Carbs, valves, spark plugs, and air cleaner set correctly and in good working order?
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: tradrockrat on November 13, 2015, 12:17:07 pm
That's what this weekend is all about - I don't winterize because I ride all year, but I do a spring and winter tuneup to all my bikes every year.  Valves are good, spark plugs are 3000 miles old, air-cleaner needs replacing, and carbs really need a full overhaul - doubt they've ever been rebuilt or overhauled in 28 years.  I'd like to send them out to shoodaben, but I can't have my bike down that long.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: RFH87_Connie on November 13, 2015, 01:05:21 pm
Trying not to hi-jack the thread here.  Besides cleaning every orifice perfectly, and the float needle seats in perfect order, the fuel height is critical to performance and fuel economy.  Search the forum and you can find it all. The main takeaway is to set the fuel level in the bowl right at the body/bowl seam line.  For idle and sync, where the butterfly plate meets the lower half of the outlet venturi, you are looking to expose the first half edge of the first hole of the tiny ports inside the venturi if I recall correctly.  Start another post for this if you have more questions.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 13, 2015, 01:36:32 pm
That's what this weekend is all about - I don't winterize because I ride all year, but I do a spring and winter tuneup to all my bikes every year.  Valves are good, spark plugs are 3000 miles old, air-cleaner needs replacing, and carbs really need a full overhaul - doubt they've ever been rebuilt or overhauled in 28 years.  I'd like to send them out to shoodaben, but I can't have my bike down that long.
[/quote

How long do you think they'd be down? I ship usps priority, and turn around in 3 days or less. Steve
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: MAN OF BLUES on November 13, 2015, 02:20:44 pm
Trying not to hi-jack the thread here.  Besides cleaning every orifice perfectly, and the float needle seats in perfect order, the fuel height is critical to performance and fuel economy.  Search the forum and you can find it all. The main takeaway is to set the fuel level in the bowl right at the body/bowl seam line.  For idle and sync, where the butterfly plate meets the lower half of the outlet venturi, you are looking to expose the first half edge of the first hole of the tiny ports inside the venturi if I recall correctly.  Start another post for this if you have more questions.

glad someone reads my stuff...
thank you..
 8)
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: tradrockrat on November 13, 2015, 09:10:35 pm
That's what this weekend is all about - I don't winterize because I ride all year, but I do a spring and winter tuneup to all my bikes every year.  Valves are good, spark plugs are 3000 miles old, air-cleaner needs replacing, and carbs really need a full overhaul - doubt they've ever been rebuilt or overhauled in 28 years.  I'd like to send them out to shoodaben, but I can't have my bike down that long.

How long do you think they'd be down? I ship usps priority, and turn around in 3 days or less. Steve

Steve - I ride mine daily as a commuter.  As the weather turns cooler, I'll be willing to pull the carbs and ship them to you for the full treatment, but my other rides are a 78 SR500 and a 98 Dodge van.  One is too damn small for commuting and the other gets 13MPG.  And honestly, we here in Austin wait all damn year for October and November - best months of riding we get, IMHO.

Meanwhile, I have pulled side plastics and tank off, and - after finishing the free power mod that last owner started -I relocated the reserve coolant tank to under the seat and went to pull the air filter and discovered that there is an actual wine bottle cork shoved into the top of my airbox... Someone please tell me there is a reason for this besides that the last owner was an alcoholic???
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: T Cro ® on November 14, 2015, 04:17:03 am
... and discovered that there is an actual wine bottle cork shoved into the top of my airbox... Someone please tell me there is a reason for this besides that the last owner was an alcoholic???

Sounds like the PO removed the system that pulls clean air from the box and injects it into the exhaust system to help burn off/dilute unburnt fuel. This is a very common mod as it does nothing to help mileage or otherwise improve performance and just gets in the way. If you look at your valve cover you will notice a couple of blank plates covering up the reed valves that were the heart of this system.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: tradrockrat on November 14, 2015, 06:14:17 am
Sounds like the PO removed the system that pulls clean air from the box and injects it into the exhaust system to help burn off/dilute unburnt fuel. This is a very common mod as it does nothing to help mileage or otherwise improve performance and just gets in the way. If you look at your valve cover you will notice a couple of blank plates covering up the reed valves that were the heart of this system.

Ah -  My reed valves have the original caps still - I need to check to make sure the PO actually capped them inside somehow.  From the looks, they're sitting open to the world.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: T Cro ® on November 14, 2015, 08:41:17 am
Ah -  My reed valves have the original caps still - I need to check to make sure the PO actually capped them inside somehow.  From the looks, they're sitting open to the world.

Well that wouldn't be the end of the world. The system was fairly passive to start with in that it included no pump or method of injection it merely allowed air to be sucked into the exhaust and reed valves prevented reverse flow. If I recall correctly on my bike I found a way of taking the reed valves apart and putting them back together in a different order to seal them shut.
Title: Re: Free power! resistance measurement
Post by: George R. Young on November 14, 2015, 02:10:42 pm
So I watched the video and it's cool and rainy in Ottawa today, what better time to investigate this idea in the garage.

My digital ohm-meter lowest scale is 200.0 ohms. With the meter leads shorted, it reads 0.6 ohms.

With one lead on the black/yellow igniter terminal and the other on the battery negative lead, it also reads 0.6 ohms. If the bike wire resistance was greater than 0.05 ohms, the meter would read 0.7.

It looks like on my C10, the bike wire resistance is pretty low already. Maybe on other bikes the resistance is higher.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 14, 2015, 03:40:47 pm
George, what voltage does your bike show at idle? almost every bike I ever checked was 12.8 to 13.2V
 After adding the new ground wire, the idle voltage is 14.3V. This has really been the case with every bike I've done. Steve
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: George R. Young on November 14, 2015, 07:49:16 pm
Hello Steve,

The bike has a digital voltmeter (and thermometer)
http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/volthermometer.htm (http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/volthermometer.htm)
and the voltage reads around 14.2 at all engine speeds.

Maybe Canadian bikes are different.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Steve in Sunny Fla on November 15, 2015, 09:28:00 am
Hello Steve,

The bike has a digital voltmeter (and thermometer)
[url]http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/volthermometer.htm[/url] ([url]http://web.ncf.ca/ag136/volthermometer.htm[/url])
and the voltage reads around 14.2 at all engine speeds.

Maybe Canadian bikes are different.


  George, your bike has excellent ground paths and nothing to be gained from the extra wire except to add as a redundant path in the even the current path is compromised. Your results are certainly dis-similar to almost all the rest of the connies out there. I know with that efficiency in the electrical system your bike starts, idles and rev's better than most out there; This may account for times when you read of guys having this or that issue, and you think to yourself "mine isn't like that"... you're lucky, because most guys don't know how well a c-10 can run till they really iron out these little gremlins that most c-10s have. steve
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: RFH87_Connie on November 16, 2015, 05:18:19 am
glad someone reads my stuff...
thank you..
 8)

No, THANK YOU!  I have a PDF of it and read it just before I do each time just as a reminder.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: bob h on November 16, 2015, 10:19:06 am
George, my measurements are a close match yours.  This is on a 1988 stock C10 in decent condition with a good battery.

Voltage drop between igniter black/yellow wire and battery negative is about .3 - .4 volts while idling at 1100 rpm.  I also tried connecting a 14 gauge wire between the igniter ground direct and the battery negative, and found no effect, other than eliminating most of the .3 - .4V drop at the igniter ground terminal.

Battery is at about 14.4V at any rpm above about 1200, (45 deg F) measured with both a digital and an analog multi-meter.
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: Dricardo1 on May 08, 2016, 05:02:15 pm
  George, your bike has excellent ground paths and nothing to be gained from the extra wire except to add as a redundant path in the even the current path is compromised. Your results are certainly dis-similar to almost all the rest of the connies out there. I know with that efficiency in the electrical system your bike starts, idles and rev's better than most out there; This may account for times when you read of guys having this or that issue, and you think to yourself "mine isn't like that"... you're lucky, because most guys don't know how well a c-10 can run till they really iron out these little gremlins that most c-10s have. steve

Steve,
Just completed your "Free Power" mod, and WOW!  Thanks for sharing.  Embarrassed to say I cut the yellow w/ black tracer at first, instead of the opposite. She runs very nicely, now :D
Title: Re: Free power!
Post by: jim snyder on May 09, 2016, 07:51:18 am
"most guys don't know how well a c-10 can run till they really iron out these little gremlins that most c-10s have". steve

I do, I do !!!