Kawasaki Concours Forum

The C-14, aka Kawasaki Concours-14, the new one :) => Accessories and modifications - C14/GTR 1400 => Topic started by: 1jeep on September 08, 2014, 11:20:21 am

Title: two brothers pipe
Post by: 1jeep on September 08, 2014, 11:20:21 am
Ok, have any of you installed just a slip on and no other mods? I was thinking baout doing the two brothers slip on and then during the winter sending my ECU to guhl for a reflash. Will i have decel popping without a tuner? Should i assume that i will need a tuner regardless?
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Rhino on September 08, 2014, 12:20:53 pm
I did a Leo Vince slip on and the guhl reflash. I was going to block the pair valve hose but there was no need. Very little decel popping. I have no idea if 2 bros will have the popping or not but a simple fix if it does. You don't get any better performance with just a slip on but there were gains from the reflash. The thing the slip on does is SIGNIFICANTLY lighter (you will not believe how heavy the potato launcher is) and better sound IMO.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: datsaxman@hotmail.com on September 08, 2014, 12:25:31 pm
Two Bros slipon can and PCV with auto tune.  No popping.  Better response than stock, and this is a midrange mod more than a top end HP mod.  It does sound a lot better than stock.  And yes, substantial weight loss.

Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: 1jeep on September 08, 2014, 12:54:50 pm
thanks...im not really looking for more top end, but a tad more volume and some mid range would be welcomed...not to mention dumping that giant ugly tube.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Rhino on September 08, 2014, 02:41:39 pm
thanks...im not really looking for more top end, but a tad more volume and some mid range would be welcomed...not to mention dumping that giant ugly tube.

+1 on the ugly tube. The guhl will definitely give you better low and mid range.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 08, 2014, 03:13:20 pm
I've got an Area P (carbon fiber of course) and stock filter and stock tune.  I think I've heard the decel pop once.  Not enough for me to worry about it.  Some like the pop.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: johnryancook on September 08, 2014, 05:05:40 pm
I have the Two Brothers installed with no other mods.  And yes, it does pop.  I don't mind it though, I just had to get that giant exhaust off the bike.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: martin_14 on September 08, 2014, 11:52:30 pm
Remus Hexacone here.
Subtle decel pop, freaking love it. Doesn't scare people but it's there. Just perfect for my taste.
And saved about 13 lbs.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 09, 2014, 04:37:00 am
Tremendous weight savings over the stocker.  I can gain at least a 15 more pounds..!
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: 1jeep on September 09, 2014, 05:44:11 am
Jim...i like how you think, winter is almost here, time for some extra insulation!

So my next question, would the guhl ecu reflash elimate the decel pop or is that only going to resolve the secondaries timing?
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 09, 2014, 05:58:48 am
Supposedly the decel pop can be resolved caveman fashion...

http://www.holeshot.com/Concours_c14/c14decel_inst.html (http://www.holeshot.com/Concours_c14/c14decel_inst.html)

Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: 1jeep on September 09, 2014, 06:13:25 am
ive seen that, not sure i like the idea and would rather resolve it than put a band aid on the issue..or plug in the tube.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 10, 2014, 12:41:50 pm
Can guhl do a reflash that improves fuel economy?  I'd love to ride 250 miles before stopping for fuel.   ???
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: 1jeep on September 10, 2014, 01:13:52 pm
For me a if i really wanted a fuel economy improvement it would begin with slowing down to almost the posted speed limits.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 10, 2014, 01:33:42 pm
I find I get better gas mileage when I'm taking it easy, the weather is hot, and I'm running the stock 08 screen.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Rhino on September 10, 2014, 02:39:19 pm
For me a if i really wanted a fuel economy improvement it would begin with slowing down to almost the posted speed limits.

+1 But at times I find that very difficult.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: maxtog on September 10, 2014, 03:47:33 pm
Can guhl do a reflash that improves fuel economy?  I'd love to ride 250 miles before stopping for fuel.   ???

Possibly, but remember that the fuel trims are very minor that they do... the main purpose is getting the secondary butterfly maps changed to something sane.  I doubt they could improve mileage much more than the existing "FEAM" that the bike already has (if you have a gen2).

I can already go 250 miles before stopping... but that is REALLY pushing it, and you have to drive very.... "calmly".  230 is much easier to attain.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: twowheeladdict on September 11, 2014, 05:58:07 am
Possibly, but remember that the fuel trims are very minor that they do... the main purpose is getting the secondary butterfly maps changed to something sane.  I doubt they could improve mileage much more than the existing "FEAM" that the bike already has (if you have a gen2).

I can already go 250 miles before stopping... but that is REALLY pushing it, and you have to drive very.... "calmly".  230 is much easier to attain.

My low fuel starts annoying me at 180 miles.  On a trip I am usually running 15 over the speed limit when no one is around me.  I do need to add a detector to the bike.  I would pay for itself after one or two tickets.  Fortuanately, a mature rider in Hi-Viz gear gets a warning after all the paperwork checks out, unless it is a state trooper or a small town chief.  Many times I just get a momentary blue light flash telling me to slow it down.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Rhino on September 11, 2014, 09:55:38 am
My low fuel starts annoying me at 180 miles.  On a trip I am usually running 15 over the speed limit when no one is around me.  I do need to add a detector to the bike.  I would pay for itself after one or two tickets.  Fortuanately, a mature rider in Hi-Viz gear gets a warning after all the paperwork checks out, unless it is a state trooper or a small town chief.  Many times I just get a momentary blue light flash telling me to slow it down.

B.D.F. has a solution for that  ;)
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: maxtog on September 11, 2014, 05:15:49 pm
My low fuel starts annoying me at 180 miles.

Yep, 180 to 185 before warning is pretty typical for me too.  That places your range (to the last drop) at approx 222 miles, which is not that unusual.  I believe 250 is attainable using FEAM (Fuel Economy Assistance Mode) and assuming you don't gun it, have a non-huge windshield, low weight, stick to under 70, filled it to the absolute max, are willing to ride to the last drop, etc, etc.   I don't recommend it, though... far to much work and too risky.  :)  Besides, life is just too short for riding to be work.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: martin_14 on September 12, 2014, 10:54:45 pm
you guys are funny. I have an '08 and have done 250 miles plus on a tank several times, at a leisure pace but not obsessed with the mileage and gunning it as needed.
I have to wonder what I'd get with the funny ECO mode, just not willing to live with the linked brakes nor the payments for a new bike. At 60 thousand miles mine's finally broken in  8)
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: fartymarty on September 13, 2014, 11:30:01 am
you guys are funny. I have an '08 and have done 250 miles plus on a tank several times, at a leisure pace but not obsessed with the mileage and gunning it as needed.

So, are they not putting ethanol in your gas over there?

 I recently was able to get some 100% gas on a trip when passing through Oklahoma and I think I could have easily gotten 250 miles from that tank if I was wanting to, but we stopped for lunch and gassed up earlier than needed.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: rocknrod on September 13, 2014, 05:01:13 pm
http://pure-gas.org/ (http://pure-gas.org/)
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: KawiG on September 13, 2014, 07:38:26 pm
I like the popping...adds personality :o
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: overthehill on September 19, 2014, 07:42:53 pm
I have a Two Brothers pipe and a power commander.  The pop is glorious!  And that is from folks in the canyon in front of me:)
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Conrad on September 20, 2014, 06:29:51 am
I've got an Area P (carbon fiber of course) and stock filter and stock tune.  I think I've heard the decel pop once.  Not enough for me to worry about it.  Some like the pop.

I have the same set-up that Jim does and for me the 'pop' is more like a very nice burble/rumble.     :thumbs:
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Conrad on September 20, 2014, 06:31:56 am
For me a if i really wanted a fuel economy improvement it would begin with slowing down to almost the posted speed limits.

That would be a bit extreme wouldn't it?   :o
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 20, 2014, 07:14:01 am
you guys are funny. I have an '08 and have done 250 miles plus on a tank several times, at a leisure pace but not obsessed with the mileage and gunning it as needed.
I have to wonder what I'd get with the funny ECO mode, just not willing to live with the linked brakes nor the payments for a new bike. At 60 thousand miles mine's finally broken in  8)

+1 although I rarely go past 220.  On my last trip I was filling it up when it got to the E block just to see how much it took to go to the filler neck.  It took about 4.1/2 gallons so based on that I could go 250 although I would be a nervous wreck getting there.  I also add an extra half gallon after the neck is reached.  I agree with Martin in that my bike is finally broken in at 60k miles.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: connie_rider on September 20, 2014, 09:58:01 am
Dumb question from a newbie.
Is the Catalytic Converter inside the stock muffler (2014 model)?
If so, does replacing the stock muffler cause emission problems/codes?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: VirginiaJim on September 20, 2014, 12:07:27 pm
It's not in the muffler in any of the models that I'm aware of.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: B.D.F. on September 20, 2014, 12:37:55 pm
No- the catalytic converters are located in the collectors of the exhaust pipe, well forward of the muffler.

No, replacing the stock muffler and exhaust pipe will not cause any error codes and <should not> have much, if any, effect on emissions.

Brian

Dumb question from a newbie.
Is the Catalytic Converter inside the stock muffler (2014 model)?
If so, does replacing the stock muffler cause emission problems/codes?

Ride safe, Ted
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: martin_14 on September 22, 2014, 05:59:50 am
So, are they not putting ethanol in your gas over there?

 I recently was able to get some 100% gas on a trip when passing through Oklahoma and I think I could have easily gotten 250 miles from that tank if I was wanting to, but we stopped for lunch and gassed up earlier than needed.

The Germans put "up to" 5% ethanol in the fuel without any indication except a tiny sticker in some pumps. Then they sell the E10 clearly marked, that nobody buys, and it contains "up to" 10% ethanol. Thing is, ethanol contains less energy per volume than good old fuel, so E5 represents an increase of fuel consumption of about 1.5%, and another 1.5% if you put E10.
Let's say E10 is 3% cheaper than pure gas, you spend the same amount of money per km, but more volume of fuel. And the fuel tank in the bike doesn't get bigger, so you have to refuel 3% more often. Doesn't sound much, I know, about 5 miles per tank. But those calculations are made on a family car, not on a high performance engine from a motorcycle.
So, to your question, I always refuel E5, weather I like it or not. There isn't pure fuel anymore over here  :-X
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Rhino on September 22, 2014, 07:57:16 am
The Germans put "up to" 5% ethanol in the fuel without any indication except a tiny sticker in some pumps. Then they sell the E10 clearly marked, that nobody buys, and it contains "up to" 10% ethanol. Thing is, ethanol contains less energy per volume than good old fuel, so E5 represents an increase of fuel consumption of about 1.5%, and another 1.5% if you put E10.
Let's say E10 is 3% cheaper than pure gas, you spend the same amount of money per km, but more volume of fuel. And the fuel tank in the bike doesn't get bigger, so you have to refuel 3% more often. Doesn't sound much, I know, about 5 miles per tank. But those calculations are made on a family car, not on a high performance engine from a motorcycle.
So, to your question, I always refuel E5, weather I like it or not. There isn't pure fuel anymore over here  :-X

The only reason it would be cheaper is because your tax dollars subsidize it (certainly the case here in the US). So your paying for it even if you don't buy it.
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: martin_14 on September 24, 2014, 03:36:40 am
The only reason it would be cheaper is because your tax dollars subsidize it (certainly the case here in the US). So your paying for it even if you don't buy it.

true here as well. Thanks for reminding me of that  :banghead:
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: fartymarty on September 24, 2014, 09:32:24 am
you guys are funny. I have an '08 and have done 250 miles plus on a tank several times, at a leisure pace but not obsessed with the mileage and gunning it as needed.

So, to your question, I always refuel E5, weather I like it or not. There isn't pure fuel anymore over here  :-X

Well if you are getting 250 miles per tank with a 1st gen then that's pretty fantastic mileage. I hadn't heard of very many, if any, Gen I C14s getting that over here. Perhaps I haven't been as attentive of the numbers as I think I have, but it seems most Gen I C14s are getting only high 30s on this side of the pond. 5% difference in ethanol doesn't seem like enough difference to account for that. Is it the O2 sensors? 
Title: Re: two brothers pipe
Post by: Stephen.G.Fiddes on September 24, 2014, 09:57:12 am
You're in luck.  The only good exhaust video in existence on the internet uses the Two Brothers on the C14

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZymgmmAljoM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZymgmmAljoM)